Post: #51

(03-12-2012 04:30 AM)xsplat Wrote:  Why? Are you thinking it might be stolen or something?

No. If it's on some AUS government website it's probably legit. I just don't understand why there's no HIN number.

It sounded to me like you weren't feeling it. That's why I was hoping you were walking. Don't buy something you don't feel comfortable owning.

If you really like it go for it, and best of luck to you. Any other questions you got fire away!

Regardless, are you in a rush to buy a boat? Maybe something else will come along that a little more solid.

And you're right about the social gatherings. People come out of the woodwork that want you to take them for a cruise. That's a big part of the reason I love them. A whole lot of people can't handle the water where my best stuff is, but they can come down and chill and cookout all day when I'm in.

Aloha!

Post: #52

(03-12-2012 04:40 AM)Kona Wrote:  It sounded to me like you weren't feeling it. That's why I was hoping you were walking. Don't buy something you don't feel comfortable owning.

Ya, my first impression of the thing dashed my expectations. But after a nights sleep I realized that owning that boat wouldn't be only about those expectations. It would also be about what the thing can do.

My expectations were about a sexy status symbol. What it can do is take me (although not in style) to cool places to do cool things.

If I want to meet my expectations, I'd have to spend a lot more money. And for a first boat, that would be foolish. This is a realistic compromise for a first boat. Cheap enough that I can sink it without crying, a bit ugly, but very functional.

Post: #53

(03-12-2012 04:52 AM)xsplat Wrote:  

(03-12-2012 04:40 AM)Kona Wrote:  It sounded to me like you weren't feeling it. That's why I was hoping you were walking. Don't buy something you don't feel comfortable owning.

Ya, my first impression of the thing dashed my expectations. But after a nights sleep I realized that owning that boat wouldn't be only about those expectations. It would also be about what the thing can do.

My expectations were about a sexy status symbol. What it can do is take me (although not in style) to cool places to do cool things.

If I want to meet my expectations, I'd have to spend a lot more money. And for a first boat, that would be foolish. This is a realistic compromise for a first boat. Cheap enough that I can sink it without crying, a bit ugly, but very functional.

Well there you go brah. Now get it checked and talk the guy down a little. Maybe you could give him $500 or so dollars to hold it?

plus, since it is a little rustic, you can learn all you want about fixing it. new paint and some fixture/equipment upgrades could make a huge difference. Do it all yourself. When you're ready for something bigger, you'll really know what's up.

And from the learning standpoint, with the motorsailer you're gonna get knowledge of running something powered and something not. You know what i mean?

Aloha!

Post: #54

(03-12-2012 05:08 AM)Kona Wrote:  plus, since it is a little rustic, you can learn all you want about fixing it. new paint and some fixture/equipment upgrades could make a huge difference. Do it all yourself.

Bling it out, huh?

As a teenager my buddy had a VW Beetle converted to a pickup. It got a lot of attention - good bang for the buck. Bali is full of craftsmen, there must be some people qualified to re-do the interior to make it posh. Ya, maybe a snazzy paint job and new cabinetry, fixtures and upholstery could upgrade the look. To start I'll learn just to get it from points a to b. And maybe get my diving license.

Post: #55

(03-12-2012 04:33 AM)Vorkuta Wrote:  Just go for it! Life is about seizing these opportunities not being sensible and thinking "does it make financial sense?" Think of the adventures. When you look back on your life do you want to remember 2012/2013 as being the years you sailed the high seas,diving on unexplored reefs,exploring desert islands or sitting at home dreaming about it. Will it bankrupt you? If not go for it.

I agree with Vorkuta.

Post: #56

I don't know. First you can't tell me that some boatyard knows how to build a boat from scratch but they don't know how to put a HIN on it? Even the Mexicans that do fiberglass repair here know how. There's a story. That number should be in three places on the boat. When you get boarded the agents will know where to find them. If I saw that boat with no numbers on it I can take it. How would you prove it's yours? If someone else finds that number and the thing is on a hot sheet look out or they could be stripped off due to it being a total insurance loss at some point that someone rebuilt.

If you do end up buying it here's what you do. Take the number provided and go to an engraver and have him make three hin tags. Put one where it's supposed to be and I'll tell you where to put the others.

Another thing. Those front windows. They better open for two reasons. One as a begginer you will get seasick as fuck driving it. when the helm is exposed you dont. Plus you it could get real hot in there.

Boat brokers have no problem delivering boats. For some it's the best part of their job. That means your area to find one is a lot bigger than you think. Pimping old boats out is costly it's cheaper just to let someone else do it then buy the boat from them.

Post: #57

(03-12-2012 09:40 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  I don't know. First you can't tell me that some boatyard knows how to build a boat from scratch but they don't know how to put a HIN on it? Even the Mexicans that do fiberglass repair here know how. There's a story. That number should be in three places on the boat. When you get boarded the agents will know where to find them. If I saw that boat with no numbers on it I can take it. How would you prove it's yours? If someone else finds that number and the thing is on a hot sheet look out or they could be stripped off due to it being a total insurance loss at some point that someone rebuilt.

If you do end up buying it here's what you do. Take the number provided and go to an engraver and have him make three hin tags. Put one where it's supposed to be and I'll tell you where to put the others.

Where else on the boat can I look for that HIN number? The Australian website that lists the boat as registered doesn't show that HIN number, only an O.N. number, and I have no idea what that is. If I could find the HIN number elsewhere on the boat I could put it back on the rear where it is supposed to be. Any suggestions on how to check hotsheets for that? Or other records?

I don't really know how much doing interior work on a boat would cost, however I do know that labor and materials are cheaper here than just about anywhere in the world, and there are skilled craftsmen available. But step by step. The first concerns are the legalities and seaworthiness of the boat.

Post: #58

You should post this on the Hull truth forum. Those nuts will know everything about that boat in two minutes just by looking at the hull.

If I can help just post the links here to other boats for sale in a 100 mile radius. They will also know where the Aussies hide the numbers.

Post: #59

(03-12-2012 08:07 PM)xsplat Wrote:  only an O.N. number, and I have no idea what that is.

That may very well be Australia's version of the HIN. The HIN is a code for a few things like who made it and when, so maybe Check that website out more. They call sandwiches sangers in Australia, same idea.

El Mechanico is right. The number has to be on the boat somewhere or you could wind up in some shit. They probably just do it differently where you are.

If the guy has blueprints he should know where it is.

Aloha!

Post: #60

I have a meeting scheduled for saturday to see the boat.

Plus I now have in mind to start in on building boats using bamboo as the material. I'll start buy buying bamboo locally, and eventually look to either purchase a bamboo forest or create a plantation. My first project will be a small catamaran, and later this year the next step would be to commission a 40 foot live aboard cat.

Someone has already built a bamboo composite hull and boat, and tested out all the engineering specifics for marine use.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=t...2dP-LjHjXg

I still don't know what equipment would be needed. For bamboo flooring or bamboo plywood making equipment, costs can run from $80,000 to $250,000. A CNC router table is pretty cheap nowadays - $10,000 can get you something decent, and to start I could just commission that CNC work.

The article linked mentions that bamboo composites can be created with vacuum bagging technique, rather a hot press. I'm hoping such techniques to create the composites, as well as perhaps simple clamping of strips can be used, as investment in the serious equipment should come after some experimentation and investment in land or at minimum investment in a factory near a cheap source of bamboo.

Post: #61

(03-15-2012 11:08 AM)xsplat Wrote:  I have a meeting scheduled for saturday to see the boat.

Plus I now have in mind to start in on building boats using bamboo as the material. I'll start buy buying bamboo locally, and eventually look to either purchase a bamboo forest or create a plantation. My first project will be a small catamaran, and later this year the next step would be to commission a 40 foot live aboard cat.

Someone has already built a bamboo composite hull and boat, and tested out all the engineering specifics for marine use.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=t...2dP-LjHjXg

I still don't know what equipment would be needed. For bamboo flooring or bamboo plywood making equipment, costs can run from $80,000 to $250,000. A CNC router table is pretty cheap nowadays - $10,000 can get you something decent, and to start I could just commission that CNC work.

The article linked mentions that bamboo composites can be created with vacuum bagging technique, rather a hot press. I'm hoping such techniques to create the composites, as well as perhaps simple clamping of strips can be used, as investment in the serious equipment should come after some experimentation and investment in land or at minimum investment in a factory near a cheap source of bamboo.

I thought you wanted to sail and get pussy. Why do you want the headache of running a bamboo factory? They make boats out of PVC tubing as well now.

Post: #62

(03-15-2012 02:14 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  I thought you wanted to sail and get pussy. Why do you want the headache of running a bamboo factory? They make boats out of PVC tubing as well now.

Good question.

Short answer; more money. Longer answer; drive to conquer more of the world and be a bigwig. Also i have a particular infatuation with bamboo. And how cool would it be to show up for the beach party in your all bamboo catamaran, be hailed as "captain bamboo", and invite the beach girls aboard to see pictures of your plantation. "Yes Captain Bamboo!"

However my dreams to use it in a boat hull may never be realized. Apparently processing it can be costly, working with it by hand is labor intensive, and using it in a composite uses a lot of urethane or epoxy - 30% by weight. This thread disses it as a hull core material http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/archive/t-28712.html, and in the other article I mentioned it was used with a balsa core and a labor intensive thin strip/glass construction method that seems not much cheaper than other building methods.

Someone in Italy made a yacht using fiber composite. That requires a 50 ton hot press to create the boards and parts. With such equipment there may yet be an advantage to bamboo. And as it's unlikely there would be much resale in heavy bamboo-cement pontoons, for now the bamboo boat dreams would be contingent upon first having a bamboo flooring and cabinetry factory with equipment to press marine grade bamboo ply and composite boards.

And like you say - that's not just a project - that's a lifestyle decision. That means scouting out land and spending some time living on a plantation, investing in equipment and starting up a business in a sector I have no experience in. A business that would require a good deal of management attention, or at least a lot of luck in hiring staff.

And yet I still want to do that. I want to own a profitable bamboo plantation, factory, and make end products with the stuff. And if it's not totally stupid, I'd like to be involved in ship-building. Maybe such drives are just genetic. Some people never retire - they feel most at ease when taking on another project.

Maybe there is a "take over the world" combination of genes.

On a philosophical note, many people take on the attitude that attitude is just an attitude. That you don't need to be a big wig, all you need to do is to feel like a big wig. Or that game trumps money, in other words. I don't entirely agree. I see distinct realms between outward success and inward confidence in personal charisma, and see that outward success is distinctly valuable, and distinctly attractive. There is no shame in wanting that particular type of useful success, and it is willful ignorance to deny the utility of it - especially the utility of it for attracting women. I'm not saying that one needs money in order to be attractive - I'm just saying that it is a useful tool, quite distinct from the secondary characteristics such as confidence that it engenders. People run all sorts of specialized attraction games - money need not be part of it. It's just willful ignorance that holds so tightly to ones personalized non-money style of game that denies the socio-sexual value of wealth, and it's that deliberate ego sparing ignorance that refuses see what money can do. And money can be displayed such that it intertwines with status and style. Don't just earn money from a farm - arrive in style on a magificent boat created on your farm, and be famous in town as Captain Bamboo. Own a chunk of the world, and be famous for owning that chunk.

Westerners of some cultures, including my home country of Canada, are raised to be guilty of ambition, guilty of standing out, guilty of being a big wig. Westerners are taught to be humble. And then there is the whole "accept yourself as you are in order to be better than you currently are" self esteem movement. Much of common culture smells of slave morality.

Post: #63

Why don't you just make some bamboo chairs and sell them to Pier 1 imports? There's bamboo all over the place here. People would probably pay you to cut it down. I used to hand make lapstrake canoes. Bamboo may work for that.

Yup here it is..
http://tomahawkku.wordpress.com/category...boo-canoe/

Post: #64

I finally got to examine the boat today. I was given rough estimates of fixing some rust damage, putting in a new railing, new windows, and painting the boat at about 6 grand. Maybe as little as 4 if I scrimped on new hull metal and just patched some rust spots. Plus I'd want to refinish the interior, so that might cost a few grand. So it looks like after bargaining and then fixing it up I'd be in for from $18,000 to $20,000.

To license it as a charter in Indonesia costs another $2200, plus 2.5% of each charter in tax.

Opinions?

Post: #65

(04-02-2012 06:40 AM)xsplat Wrote:  I finally got to examine the boat today. I was given rough estimates of fixing some rust damage, putting in a new railing, new windows, and painting the boat at about 6 grand. Maybe as little as 4 if I scrimped on new hull metal and just patched some rust spots. Plus I'd want to refinish the interior, so that might cost a few grand. So it looks like after bargaining and then fixing it up I'd be in for from $18,000 to $20,000.

To license it as a charter in Indonesia costs another $2200, plus 2.5% of each charter in tax.

Opinions?

Send some links to other boats for sale in your area. I still don't understand how you would charter that boat.

Post: #66

(04-02-2012 09:01 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(04-02-2012 06:40 AM)xsplat Wrote:  I finally got to examine the boat today. I was given rough estimates of fixing some rust damage, putting in a new railing, new windows, and painting the boat at about 6 grand. Maybe as little as 4 if I scrimped on new hull metal and just patched some rust spots. Plus I'd want to refinish the interior, so that might cost a few grand. So it looks like after bargaining and then fixing it up I'd be in for from $18,000 to $20,000.

To license it as a charter in Indonesia costs another $2200, plus 2.5% of each charter in tax.

Opinions?

Send some links to other boats for sale in your area. I still don't understand how you would charter that boat.

There is pretty well nothing for sale under $40,000 at that size in my area.

Ya, I don't understand the charter business, and have no reply to how to charter it. What about resale value?

Post: #67

(04-02-2012 10:08 AM)xsplat Wrote:  

(04-02-2012 09:01 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(04-02-2012 06:40 AM)xsplat Wrote:  I finally got to examine the boat today. I was given rough estimates of fixing some rust damage, putting in a new railing, new windows, and painting the boat at about 6 grand. Maybe as little as 4 if I scrimped on new hull metal and just patched some rust spots. Plus I'd want to refinish the interior, so that might cost a few grand. So it looks like after bargaining and then fixing it up I'd be in for from $18,000 to $20,000.

To license it as a charter in Indonesia costs another $2200, plus 2.5% of each charter in tax.

Opinions?

Send some links to other boats for sale in your area. I still don't understand how you would charter that boat.

There is pretty well nothing for sale under $40,000 at that size in my area.

Ya, I don't understand the charter business, and have no reply to how to charter it. What about resale value?

Remember that yacht guys have no problem delivering. How about a power boat option to start out?

Post: #68

(04-02-2012 10:17 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  Remember that yacht guys have no problem delivering. How about a power boat option to start out?

A powerboat would defeat the purpose, as this is to be a starter boat that gets me comfortable with sailing a mid sized ship and handling it for long trips. Eventually I'd like to get a "real" boat, but don't have the resources or the foolishness to spend more money on a first boat.

What about resale value?

Post: #69

(04-02-2012 06:50 PM)xsplat Wrote:  

(04-02-2012 10:17 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  Remember that yacht guys have no problem delivering. How about a power boat option to start out?

A powerboat would defeat the purpose, as this is to be a starter boat that gets me comfortable with sailing a mid sized ship and handling it for long trips. Eventually I'd like to get a "real" boat, but don't have the resources or the foolishness to spend more money on a first boat.

What about resale value?

Do you know what kind of boat you could get here with that kind of money?
We're all getting them ready for summer now and were talking about it the other day. I just can't wrap my head around that thing for that kind of cash that's been sitting in the water. There has to be more options.

Look at this for asking around 9k offer 5 it's gone. There must be other ways to buy boats there..
http://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/boa/2931107846.html

BTW how much sailing exp do you have?

Post: #70

(04-03-2012 03:26 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(04-02-2012 06:50 PM)xsplat Wrote:  

(04-02-2012 10:17 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  Remember that yacht guys have no problem delivering. How about a power boat option to start out?

A powerboat would defeat the purpose, as this is to be a starter boat that gets me comfortable with sailing a mid sized ship and handling it for long trips. Eventually I'd like to get a "real" boat, but don't have the resources or the foolishness to spend more money on a first boat.

What about resale value?

Do you know what kind of boat you could get here with that kind of money?
We're all getting them ready for summer now and were talking about it the other day. I just can't wrap my head around that thing for that kind of cash that's been sitting in the water. There has to be more options.

Look at this for asking around 9k offer 5 it's gone. There must be other ways to buy boats there..
http://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/boa/2931107846.html

BTW how much sailing exp do you have?

That's what I needed to know, thanks. On inspection of the boat I didn't fall in love, and now I see it's not a great value, and an iffy charter boat, so I'll hold off on a purchase.

Post: #71

I'm looking around online but can't easily find the cost of shipping a boat.

My max budget would be $30,000, and I see that if I look around globally there are many sweet boats under that price. Boats I could proud of and feel happy in. The only answer to shipping price I've seen so far is $1000 per foot.

Perhaps the only inexpensive option is to buy in the region and sail it myself to where I want to put it? Like maybe buy in Australia, or China? Doesn't seem to be much available in Indonesia or even the Phillipines.

Post: #72

(04-03-2012 05:50 PM)xsplat Wrote:  I'm looking around online but can't easily find the cost of shipping a boat.

My max budget would be $30,000, and I see that if I look around globally there are many sweet boats under that price. Boats I could proud of and feel happy in. The only answer to shipping price I've seen so far is $1000 per foot.

Perhaps the only inexpensive option is to buy in the region and sail it myself to where I want to put it? Like maybe buy in Australia, or China? Doesn't seem to be much available in Indonesia or even the Phillipines.

What sites? I looked at a map you should be looking in Australia. Is there a big market for sailboats there where you're at?

Post: #73

(04-03-2012 05:57 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  What sites? I looked at a map you should be looking in Australia. Is there a big market for sailboats there where you're at?

It seems to be a small online market for sailboats in Indonesia, and the price is quite inflated as compared to prices in the US.

Australia has a larger market and better prices. I can't find websites in China yet, however they have a boat building industry and a growing domestic market, so I'd expect there should be used boats available.

How long would it take to sail up from Australia? And what would the gas costs be, roughly?

If a $30,000 boat could make money as a charter, it could be a better deal even as a personal toy than an $18,000 hunk of crap. I haven't done any market research yet but I'd imagine harboring it in Bali and partnering with some agencies should get a handsome boat some charter income.

Even a small boat like a 30 footer could be fun to charter for a day or two from Bali to the Gili Islands, and some budget minded people might not mind the smaller quarters for longer trips to Flores or what have you. If a boat could earn income as a charter and maintain resale value such that in 10 years it kept pace with gold or the stock market, that would be a win.

Post: #74

It seems ferro cement boats are relatively cheap. http://www.australiaboats.com.au/listing...26&cat=287 is 36 feet and http://moet.freehostia.com/ is 39 feet. Both sell for about $30,000 asking price.

Post: #75

This for charters
http://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/boa/2867595758.html
Runs shallower and has more room for people to lay around and drink