Post: #51

Despite some of the negativity you are getting for this post, I think it's good. Thank you gework. (for the record - I had the same experience as you whilst travelling to Russia, Belarus, other parts of Europe and some parts of the US, and I live in Australia and it's pretty grim here)

It's all of the above and other factors too.

The answer to it is:
1. Maximise your own value (exercise, eat well, dress well, talk well, read, acquire more knowledge, work on organic/natural social connections etc.) - there is no finish line to this...you can keep getting better every day
2. Have your money and time independence and freedom sorted
3. Move to different locations within your country and see if results change
4. Move to different countries and see if your results change
5. Know exactly what you want out of a woman (all men want something slightly different), and screen and look for red flags for LTRs. Russian and European women have some unique red flags compared to Western women
6. Keep yourself accountable - make sure you are a man of values, morality and a good mind yourself. It's easy to get off that path and not know it and get bitter, jaded and corrupted by the world and people around you
7. Keep up to date with the patterns and trends that are happening in the world without getting negative about it, and adjust. Just accept reality and make the most of it

Even after all that, finding a LTR partner ultimately depends on a factor outside of your control to your extent i.e. meeting another person who you are attracted to and compatible with

So, just control what you can control, continue to treat your own development and life as a major priority, and just do your best with dating in and around that. That's all you can really ask of yourself

Post: #52

It's really a combination of two things: obesity and social media/dating apps. Together these have stratified the modern sexual marketplace to an incredible degree. The result is that the "middle class" of women (i.e. women rated 5-7) has both shrunk and diminished in quality. The reality is that absent obesity, most 16-25 year old women would be at least a 5. Probably 80% of women are naturally 5 or greater in their prime years if they don't let themselves get fat. That is the default state of nature for humans - the average woman is designed to be sexually attractive to the vast majority of men during her years of prime fertility.

Now, however, obesity has crept in and turned many women who should be 5s, 6s or 7s into 2s, 3s, and 4s. And guess what? We don't suddenly get more 5-7s to replace them. Those "middle class" women are simply gone now. They've fallen into the underclass of the sexual marketplace. So what is the middle class SMV man to do? Should he slum with the 2s and 3s? Obviously he would only do so as a last resort. So he's forced to compete for the dwindling supply of 5-7 women and take what he can get. Which for most men isn't much.

But...maybe he should set his sights higher? Why not go for the 8s and 9s? Here is where social media and dating apps affect the other side of the sexual marketplace hierarchy. They have unleashed hypergamy to a degree unknown in all of human history. Any good-looking woman with an internet connection now theoretically has access to the highest status men on the planet at the touch of a button. It is normal and socially acceptable for good-looking women to essentially advertise themselves on social media. The ease of doing so and the vast amount of positive attention they receive makes it completely intoxicating. They simply cannot resist. Almost every 8 and 9 today realizes the massive power her beauty and sex appeal provide her, and leverages it via social media and dating apps to expand her potential dating pool beyond her social circle. And good looking girls have good looking girl friends, and all of them have a friend who got wifed up by a rich, high status guy. They all want that, and by advertising themselves online they (correctly) reason that they are more likely to catch the eye of some big shot guy at some point. This is literal sexual economics. They have a product, and they take advantage of this new advertising platform to get more of their target market's eyeballs on it.

The modern SMV is essentially a winner-take-all environment. High-status men enjoy sexual access and abundance that literally rivals the kings of old with their harems. And beautiful women have never been more empowered to trade their looks for the best deal they can get. People on the low end of the SMV have completely checked out. They aren't even fucking - the 3 and below women (most due to obesity) and the incel young men form a vicious feedback loop - the men see the only women available to them are disgusting and choose to play video games instead, the women see the only men available to them are losers and pick up the ice cream. This is why statistics show young people today having less sex on average - because at the bottom end of the SMV scale most of these people are literally incel, male and female.

But just as in the case of economic stratification, the biggest losers are the middle class. The average to above average man is hit the hardest. The average to above average women is hurt as well, as many will waste their best years being pumped and dumped by higher status men on dating apps, under the delusion that they can lock one down. But they won't, and will grow bitter by their early 30s when they are forced to "settle" for a merely average guy. Many of these marriages will obviously implode within a few years, as we see happen all the time now.

It's really a bad situation. Individual men who manage to reach the top of the sexual marketplace in one way or another will laud this as the best of times. And it certainly is by that measure if you can reach that summit. But from a societal perspective, this is a total disaster and completely untenable long-term. This sexual market is simply far too stratified. There are too many losers and too many non-participants. If the average man and the average woman are no longer able to naturally come together (because half of the average women are now fat, and the other half are chasing Chads who won't commit to them) then there is something fundamentally broken in society. And the repercussions of that dysfunction will be felt far and wide.

Post: #53

That was a prime explanation Scorpion, +1 from me

Post: #54

(11-07-2018 10:04 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  I have lived in London and Toronto.

I would have to disagree with those stats, the two cities aren't even close.

London has a huge influx of foreign girls that move from other countries to live their permanently.

Toronto doesn't have the luxury of so many foreign girls moving here, we get a few girls that come from other towns/cities in Canada.

I don't know what are the age demographics are for those stats.

I don't doubt it. But London attracts plenty of men too. Do you think that more women are drawn there than men? Because if not, there would be no net improvement in the ratio; although you would still have a larger overall pool of options...

Post: #55

the main reason is guys in the west will tolerate bad behaviour from women.women will get laid even if they have. a shitty pesonality or values because white dudes are so thirsty they will stick their dick in anything.. thats why its declining.. once men start to reject women only then will the siuation improve.sadly 99% of men would rather do anything to get laid than reject a girl... western dudes need to man the hell up. do you know why things like game are neccasary? because women are too entitled in the west.we need to go back to basics.no voting for women.no work for women. all this female rights BS is destroying family values and happiness for both genders
celebs and politicians pushing for femenism need to be terminated instantly... they should be behind bars

Post: #56

(11-08-2018 12:11 AM)scorpion Wrote:  It's really a combination of two things: obesity and social media/dating apps. Together these have stratified the modern sexual marketplace to an incredible degree. The result is that the "middle class" of women (i.e. women rated 5-7) has both shrunk and diminished in quality.

Scorpion has made a crucial point. The obesity epidemic in the west has created a huge amount of 4s & 5s from the women who should (hypothetically) be 6s, 7s, 8s & 9s. The result is a huge undersupply of 6s to 9s, therefore pushing the demand upwards.

Simple supply & demand.

Post: #57

Scorpion.the influx of men migrants in europe and US has not helped either.there is a huge gender imbalance in a lot of western countries.the politicians need to be hanged for treason for doing this or jailed. lots of traitor politicians in the west pushing femenism and anti male politics

Post: #58

(11-08-2018 02:18 AM)Jungle Wrote:  

(11-08-2018 12:11 AM)scorpion Wrote:  It's really a combination of two things: obesity and social media/dating apps. Together these have stratified the modern sexual marketplace to an incredible degree. The result is that the "middle class" of women (i.e. women rated 5-7) has both shrunk and diminished in quality.

Scorpion has made a crucial point. The obesity epidemic in the west has created a huge amount of 4s & 5s from the women who should (hypothetically) be 6s, 7s, 8s & 9s. The result is a huge undersupply of 6s to 9s, therefore pushing the demand upwards.

Simple supply & demand.

More "sky is falling" talk.

Men's obesity is increasing at literally the same rate as women's.

Post: #59

(11-08-2018 02:18 AM)Jungle Wrote:  

(11-08-2018 12:11 AM)scorpion Wrote:  It's really a combination of two things: obesity and social media/dating apps. Together these have stratified the modern sexual marketplace to an incredible degree. The result is that the "middle class" of women (i.e. women rated 5-7) has both shrunk and diminished in quality.

Scorpion has made a crucial point. The obesity epidemic in the west has created a huge amount of 4s & 5s from the women who should (hypothetically) be 6s, 7s, 8s & 9s. The result is a huge undersupply of 6s to 9s, therefore pushing the demand upwards.

Simple supply & demand.

But the same could also be said for the obesity in the male population.

Post: #60

I've been going out for 19 years and it hasn't really changed that much. It has never been easy to get quality other than when in school / college / university. And social media and online dating apps are just a tool you can use if you want, but are way inferior to in person game and far from necessary.

Post: #61

I think its a mix of those things.

Nowdays in the west most people are kind of like spoil't kids. They think they are entitled to much more than they actually are, because things have been so good, so easy, for so long (relatively speaking) they dont know any better.

So the internet coupled with with males hardwired thirst for sex has put girls entitlement through the roof and with it their perceived value, if their value goes up it stands to reason ours must come down.

Also consider an average guy, who learns game, works out etc... may then think he is entitled to bang a whole bunch of hot girls, but it doesn't work like that, there simply aren't enough girls to go around, they could fuck 100 guys a week if they wanted to, but they dont. Despite what we say here most are happy with one at a time, and they are usually in relationships all the time as they merrily skip from one boyfriend to the next. Guys on the other hand want to fuck as many girls as possible, but not all guys. If the average Joe that works out with some game was happy to keep just one hot quality girl that he snagged, it would not be a problem, but he doesn't he wants more and like I said there just isnt enough girls to go around for the average, or a bit above average Joe.

The thing is when it comes to sex women have and always will have unlimited choices, most men do not have this, and so guys are just replaceable trinkets to women, sure they are heart broken for one or two weeks, but then its oh well time to get over it, night out with the girls or tinder and, next. For the average guy it doesnt work like that because he is just that, average, however we might like to dress it up.

Other than that to leave on a positive note as has been said on here a million times unless you are a guy that is naturally attractive to a large proportion of women you just have to try, try, try, its a numbers game.

Post: #62

(11-07-2018 08:54 PM)a beer is enough Wrote:  You can go out there to adjust to the times which means building your social media following, taking good photos, representing your life in an awesome way and making an awesome life for yourself.

The sharp words are warranted. The reality isn't rosy. Though this wasn't started as a whine post, it was out of curiosity, due to experiencing and digesting what's posted here.

I get that I am not doing what it takes to regularly take a new place on the cock carousel every week, which seems to be the usual weights + curated IG, HQ photos + game. And then trying to put every n+ though your routine. I'm not prepared to do any of that beyond the weights.

When my father was young he had a lot of hot girlfriends: 60s and 70s. His game consisted of being good at football, punching people in the face and swaggering about after 20 pints. It seems the bar has lifted since then. That was essentially your 'fame' game back then. He married a 17 year old and then his SMV began dropping wildly. Because most of his life was just an illusion of being cool based on a few tricks.

No one will care about your curated Instagram account in ten years.

You can enjoy it while it lasts, but will probably come with a hit to your long-term value.

---------------

Returning to the market, I think it's everything combined that is leading to the trend of a few men having lots of sex, most men - less and increasingly more none.

If you look at somewhere like Russia, you only have maybe one aspect that decreased male SMV, which is women earning their own money. Men can deal with that. You have the same in Malaysia. Some of these countries also have heavy app usage, though I wonder if in a few years they go off the cliff.

In The West it's full spectrum: corporate, media, apps, culture, academia all at once that is taking a lot of guys out of the running. Most of what used to make men valuable to women has and is being attacked; some of it sanctioned, repackaged and given to women. Though, obviously this is an opportunity for those that observe game and re-calibrate and shift the bar higher.

For me the re-calibration is leaving. I was planning on making it permanent for the last two years, but it will be next year. The roles are completely reversed. About a week ago someone asked me to message a Brazilian girl, telling her I met her at Oktoberfest to see if she would cheat on her boyfriend, who is the cousin of who asked me. It turns out she would and I will meet her next year. If it was in this country I'd probably be reported to the police as a stalker.

(11-07-2018 09:57 PM)Bain Wrote:  All we can do is wait and allow nature to re balance itself. In the mean time keep up with game.

I think we're in a huge re-balancing. For a long time we've been living in enforced monogamy, which has stabalised society in a lot of ways, not least for staving off the incel rebellion. Currently we're moving into a casual short-term polygamy setup. A lot of genes will leave the gene pool.

Post: #63

I don’t think nature will balance itself. My prediction is that it can only get worse.

- most people will become obese
- men and women will not live together. Most men will live alone, play video games and buy sexbots. Most women will live alone or with other women (possibly raising kids from artificial insemination or from random men)
- women will take over most corporate jobs, men will be on welfare or entrepreneurs.

I fail to see a mechanism by which this could be reversed (short of societal collapse or zombie apocalypse), on the contrary, it has the characteristics of an accelerating phenomenon.

Post: #64

(11-08-2018 10:07 AM)Montrose Wrote:  I don’t think nature will balance itself. My prediction is that it can only get worse.

- most people will become obese
- men and women will not live together. Most men will live alone, play video games and buy sexbots. Most women will live alone or with other women (possibly raising kids from artificial insemination or from random men)
- women will take over most corporate jobs, men will be on welfare or entrepreneurs.

I fail to see a mechanism by which this could be reversed (short of societal collapse or zombie apocalypse), on the contrary, it has the characteristics of an accelerating phenomenon.

as i said in the previous post, abolishing the womens right to work in high position jobs and banning women from voting might be the only way to reverse this. basically some sort of sharia law. when women really need men again only then will it reverse and they will be forced to regain their femeninity
as for the welfare i predict that will not last long, once most jobs get automatized and that is not so far way men and eventually women will have neither welfare or jobs. you also have AI robots to replace female sex workers. bye bye to most dayjobs. bye bye to all taxation going to the welfare as well. i predict that the 15% of guys getting laid consistently today will shrink to top 2% as womens demands keep increasing due to femenism

Post: #65

(11-08-2018 10:07 AM)Montrose Wrote:  I don’t think nature will balance itself. My prediction is that it can only get worse.

- most people will become obese
- men and women will not live together. Most men will live alone, play video games and buy sexbots. Most women will live alone or with other women (possibly raising kids from artificial insemination or from random men)
- women will take over most corporate jobs, men will be on welfare or entrepreneurs.

I fail to see a mechanism by which this could be reversed (short of societal collapse or zombie apocalypse), on the contrary, it has the characteristics of an accelerating phenomenon.

I agree, with the caveat that the remaining conservative/religious people will leave more progeny, while the childless liberals and MGTOWS will remove their genes from the next generation, so there may be a rebalancing of sorts in the future. Whether that will be a powerful effect enough to counterbalance the prevailing trend, I'm doubtful, but it will be there.

Post: #66

(11-08-2018 10:27 AM)zamfir112 Wrote:  as i said in the previous post, abolishing the womens right to work in high position jobs and banning women from voting might be the only way to reverse this.

In a democracy few would ever knowingly vote to reduce their rights and privileges. So giving women the vote is really a one-way street.

The bigger picture is that democracy in general tends not to be very sustainable. The golden age of democracy in Greece was just a historical blip, for instance. Rome was full of assassinations and imperial overreach.

I'm sure someone has citations for this, but even in ancient times it was theorized that the unwashed masses were simply incapable of shaping sustainable policies. They would invariably vote for make-work style bridges to nowhere projects and increased entitlements which would choke the system with debt and beaurocracy.

I'm not calling for a dictatorship but it would be a huge improvement if there were some sort of entrance exam before you were allowed to vote to keep knuckle-draggers or the hopelessly selfish from defining policy.

Post: #67

(11-08-2018 10:07 AM)Montrose Wrote:  - men and women will not live together. Most men will live alone, play video games and buy sexbots. Most women will live alone or with other women (possibly raising kids from artificial insemination or from random men)

About that...

Coincidence that Japan is the leading country in VR (virtual reality) and sex robots?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/tech/6851057/se...irth-rate/
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/japan-battl...th-robots/

"Nearly a third of Japanese people are entering their 30s without any sexual experience, leaving the country facing a steep population decline"

"As a result, the country is facing a steep population decline. Young people have been found to be avoiding romantic relationships altogether. 43% of those aged 18-34 are virgins, according to one poll. It has been claimed men "cannot be bothered" and find it easier to watch porn."

"The number of births dropped below one million in Japan for the first time ever last year. As deaths in the country continue to outpace births, the situation has been called a "demographic time bomb".

It has begun.

Post: #68

(11-08-2018 02:43 AM)corsega Wrote:  

(11-08-2018 02:18 AM)Jungle Wrote:  

(11-08-2018 12:11 AM)scorpion Wrote:  It's really a combination of two things: obesity and social media/dating apps. Together these have stratified the modern sexual marketplace to an incredible degree. The result is that the "middle class" of women (i.e. women rated 5-7) has both shrunk and diminished in quality.

Scorpion has made a crucial point. The obesity epidemic in the west has created a huge amount of 4s & 5s from the women who should (hypothetically) be 6s, 7s, 8s & 9s. The result is a huge undersupply of 6s to 9s, therefore pushing the demand upwards.

Simple supply & demand.

More "sky is falling" talk.

Men's obesity is increasing at literally the same rate as women's.

There's plenty of truth to complaints of women being in significantly worse shape than men. Look at any recent studies comparing exercise frequency and/or intensity by gender. It varies a bit by country, but if you just look at time spent in the gym men are often spending 60-100% more. These numbers should probably be taken with a grain of salt since women half ass it, generally avoid weights and naturally have a harder time building muscle and burning fat.

Plenty of these obesity studies carelessly use BMI, which classify athletes and weight lifters as overweight or obese. Tyron Woodley is technically considered obese when he is out of camp and walking around at ~210 lbs. My point is a guy who is fairly muscular and 20-25% body fat is going to easily be in the over weight to obese range while not compromising bodily and particularly facial attractiveness all that much. A 25-30 BMI male can look like a pro athlete where as his female BMI counterpart is likely an absolute land whale. Also most men on here only care about women in the 18-25 age range so just lumping every demographic group together is a fairly useless statistic.

Post: #69

You can't directly equate female obesity and male obesity. They aren't nearly the same thing, for the simple reason that the vast majority (north of 80%) of a woman's value in the sexual marketplace is entirely determined by her physical beauty. And obesity destroys that completely. In contrast, a man's value in the sexual marketplace is determined by a combination of a much larger number of variables: social status, charisma, height, muscularity, personality, income, etc...

So saying that the crisis of female obesity is not a big deal because men are also increasingly obese misses the point. It's true, but it doesn't matter because they two aren't directly comparable. Men are fatter, but a man can be thirty or forty pounds overweight and still have an enormous SMV if his other attributes are on point. That's simply impossible for a woman. A woman putting on forty pounds of fat cuts her SMV in half, where a guy who is otherwise well-put-together might only go down a point. The equivalent of a fat woman is not a fat man, it's an unemployed virgin loser who lives in his mom's basement.

Post: #70

(11-07-2018 09:57 PM)Bain Wrote:  

(11-07-2018 05:19 PM)LexisNexis Wrote:  Unfavourable Demographics in the First Place + Feminism + Social Media = It's Over

We over complicate it, but the real core issue is unfavorable demographics. That is it. Even a small shift in demographics can create havoc.

Na man it's the combination. Sausagefest societies have existed in history - maybe the bottom 10% of men were celibate but outside of that it was traditional marriage pairings, not the hypergamy or whoring we see in the modern west. That's unleashed by feminism-liberalism and blown up by technology.

Post: #71

(11-08-2018 02:58 PM)scorpion Wrote:  So saying that the crisis of female obesity is not a big deal because men are also increasingly obese misses the point. It's true, but it doesn't matter because they two aren't directly comparable. Men are fatter, but a man can be thirty or forty pounds overweight and still have an enormous SMV if his other attributes are on point. That's simply impossible for a woman. A woman putting on forty pounds of fat cuts her SMV in half, where a guy who is otherwise well-put-together might only go down a point.

LOL sure there buddy

Post: #72

(11-08-2018 03:16 PM)LexisNexis Wrote:  

(11-08-2018 02:58 PM)scorpion Wrote:  So saying that the crisis of female obesity is not a big deal because men are also increasingly obese misses the point. It's true, but it doesn't matter because they two aren't directly comparable. Men are fatter, but a man can be thirty or forty pounds overweight and still have an enormous SMV if his other attributes are on point. That's simply impossible for a woman. A woman putting on forty pounds of fat cuts her SMV in half, where a guy who is otherwise well-put-together might only go down a point.

LOL sure there buddy

Scorpion gives a very valid and educated response and all you can do is "lol" like a child.

Obvious game denialist is obvious.

At least give an educated rebuttal about being an incel or MGTOW then please.

Post: #73

There's been a long term trend away from glorifying the production of children, which is the physical world reason women need men. First, they need sperm, though that could be obtained by sperm bank or ONS with Chad T. Second, and more important, they need the extra income and helping hand a man provides to raise children, especially more than one.

Why don't people in general, and especially women, want children like they did in the 1950's? Demographics is a mystery. French population stagnated in the 19th century while that of Germany and Britain exploded. African population is continuing to explode while everywhere else it is stagnant or even declining. Urbanization appears a factor. Education of women a factor. Rate of population growth almost always goes up after a war or other crisis. In wolves and wild boar, hunting and other stressors tends to increase rate of reproduction regardless of effect on food resources. (((Orthodox))) have no economic or media power but reproduce like rabbits, as do the similar Amish and Mennonite and polygamist Mormons. (((Elite))) have economic and media power greatly disproportionate to their numbers (though absolute power is still limited because numbers are so small in absolute terms) but extremely low birth rates. Etc, etc. There no easy answer. If you think you fully understand why attitudes about children have changed in most of the world since the 1950's, trust me, you are mistaken.

The physical need for sex is a minor factor. Masturbation can take care of that, but many women don't even need masturbation because their sex drive is just low. Men are all the same: high sex drive or your ancestors didn't reproduce. Women are not all the same. Historically, lots of men preferred women with no or very low sex drive because these women wouldn't cheat. They did their wifely sexual duties same as they scrubbed the toilet and cooked dinner. The real biological necessity in women is to bond to and desire to nurture children. That necessity can be converted into bonding/nurturing pet cats or pet immigrants or other children surrogates.

So much for physical reality. Lets turn to psychological realm, or realm of validation. In the past, a woman needed sex with a man to feel validated as a success. Now she can get validation from orbiters on social media, or she can identify as a lesbian and have real sex except not with a man and be validated that way, or she can identify as a tree or frog (go crazy, in other words) and have sex with no one and still feel like a validated success because there's now a support group for crazy people like that somewhere.

Putting the physical reality and psychological factors together, we see demand for men has been declining since the 1950's and will continue to decline for decades to come, whereas supply of men is greater because no male deaths in war.

So what to do? Unless you're Chad T (top 1%), your best strategy is to learn to live without women for long periods of time and to share women with other men. Men on whaling ships went without women for years on end. Then when they finally stopped in at port, they shared a small group of whores. I'm not advocating either whaling or whoring. My point is simply that going without women for long periods and sharing (ONS and short term relationships with sluts is as much sharing as P4P) are neither unprecedented nor the mark of faggotry/betaness/soyification/etc. You don't have to identify as MGTOW but you should be prepared to live MGTOW for much of your life of you want to be happy. Because for all but Chad T, making your happiness dependent on constant and exclusive sexual access to a quality women is a formula for misery under current and foreseeable conditions.

Post: #74

(11-08-2018 03:56 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

(11-08-2018 03:16 PM)LexisNexis Wrote:  

(11-08-2018 02:58 PM)scorpion Wrote:  So saying that the crisis of female obesity is not a big deal because men are also increasingly obese misses the point. It's true, but it doesn't matter because they two aren't directly comparable. Men are fatter, but a man can be thirty or forty pounds overweight and still have an enormous SMV if his other attributes are on point. That's simply impossible for a woman. A woman putting on forty pounds of fat cuts her SMV in half, where a guy who is otherwise well-put-together might only go down a point.

LOL sure there buddy

Scorpion gives a very valid and educated response and all you can do is "lol" like a child.

Obvious game denialist is obvious.

At least give an educated rebuttal about being an incel or MGTOW then please.

If anything, being overweight hurts women less, because of their more favourable fat distribution patterns in the face and body relative to men. A man who tips 20% bodyfat becomes a bloated walrus-pylon hybrid. But whatever, keep believing that a fat man can have a "massive SMV", short of being a millionaire or celebrity, and crank out words like "incel" and "MGTOW" like an NPC whenever someone disagrees. I wonder what quests I need to complete to unlock more dialogue options.

Post: #75

No, Scorpion is right. The point you're missing is that for men and women physical appeal is not weighted equally. For a woman beauty is perhaps 90% of SMV. For a man it can be close to 0 and he can still have considerable SMV because of his other attributes. This is not a hard point to understand.