Post: #1

Hey everyone, wanted to share my thoughts on smoking cigs. I'm 29 and like most I began smoking when I was in high school (I was 15, I believe). After 14 years of smoking, there is no question that the health impact is definitely beginning to show and of course health impacts game especially performance of the deed. I'm at a point where I genuinely want to give up the habit. I had really cut down on cigarettes a few months back by picking up cigars, which definitely helps but buying decent cigars plus packs of cigs ($14/pack in NYC) can really hit the wallet.

Health reasons aside, one reason I would find it difficult to quit is because it many ways it helps with game. It's always a great opener (i.e. asking for a light, sharing a cig) not to mention many times at bars/clubs girls will step out by themselves to smoke and it's a great opportunity to chat them up. Even for daygame, it's a great thing to immediately open with.

Truth is, like most smokers who have smoked for a decade or more, I love smoking. I don't want to quit completely, I just want to quit the habit of smoking close to a pack a day. Ideally, I would like to be at a point where I can comfortably have a cigarette some nights when I go out then not need one every hour after that. It's the habit and addiction I'd like to overcome.

Anyone have any good tips/advice?

Post: #2

Get a humidor and then buy your cigars online in bulk. That will reduce your cigar costs by at least 50%.

Post: #3

Try to have zero cigarettes for one month.
After you accomplish this, only have a few when you leave the house expressly to meet women *(and for no other reason).

Post: #4

(10-17-2018 10:21 AM)PakMan Wrote:  Truth is, like most smokers who have smoked for a decade or more, I love smoking. I don't want to quit completely, I just want to quit the habit of smoking close to a pack a day. Ideally, I would like to be at a point where I can comfortably have a cigarette some nights when I go out then not need one every hour after that. It's the habit and addiction I'd like to overcome.

This is smoker hamstering in its purest form.

The only, I repeat, the only reason you are smoking cigarettes is because you are addicted to nicotine. It starts there, it ends there, there is no middle ground. That, and only that, is the sole and only reason you are smoking them. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying or hamstering, and if you tell yourself otherwise, you are lying or hamstering.

Again: there is no middle ground. No buts and ifs. You need to kick this shit for good and deep down you know it. What's holding you back is your fear of a life without ever being "allowed" your cigarette anymore.

There is not a single person on this earth who has enjoyed the taste of the first cigarette they ever smoked. Can you remember your first cigarette? You probably hated the taste and coughed your fucking lungs out.

And you know why your body reacts that way initially? Because you are literally inhaling poison. It is a warning sign you are willingly ignoring.

Cigarettes are the perfect product, because they create their own demand. Do you really think you are making a rational choice to smoke them? Bullshit. Every cigarette you smoke creates your demand for the next one.

Also, fuck relying on cigarettes to run game. Yes they provide great openers, but you know what? If you go into the smokers room and open that same girl with "hey" instead of "hey do you have a light", she is going to react to your game exactly the same way. Fuck openers, just open your mouth.

If I sound harsh, so be it. All I'm doing is saying how it is. Literally every single explanation I've heard for smoking cigarettes is the hamster at work.

Now for some practical advice, I'll keep it simple:

To get rid of them once and for all, read The Easy Way To Stop Smoking by Allen Carr.

You can thank me later. It took me 12 years of smoking 30 cigarettes a day to come to these realizations. I sincerely hope I can help you do the same.

I have recently celebrated 1 year of being smoke-free and I am 100% certain I will never ever light one up again. I feel better than ever now. When I think back to my smoking days, I am absolutely baffled that I did it for so long.

Oh and I used to say the exact same stuff you posted in this thread. It's nothing new.

Post: #5

Funny that this thread popped up today, I’m going for a laser treatment to help me quit smoking this afternoon, it makes quitting easier, I’ve used it 6 times in the past 4 years but always end up smoking again while drinking.

OP stop the hamstering and just quit, smoking is fucking gross and the types of people who do it are becoming social pariahs, cities are cracking down so much that’s it’s becoming increasingly difficult to be a smoker. Try dating girls who are into fitness and healthy living not smoking and heavy drinking. I say this as someone who has smoked for over 20 years and quit countless times, hopefully this time is for good.

Post: #6

I agree with most posters that I definitely hamstering to some extent, but I disagree that the only reason I smoke is an addiction to nicotine. Out of all the cigs I smoke daily, I think probably only a few are due to an actual craving for nicotine. Most are just routine and killing time when there's nothing else to do. There is no doubt completely quitting is the best scenario and of course game doesn't require smoking.

I don't mind the harshness either. It's probably warranted at this point since I'm getting winded after just an hour of working out, which is unacceptable at 29.

The reason I'm opposed to having an all or nothing mentality is because I think everyone should strive towards establishing strong self-discipline and be able to control their intake of any substance even if they had a previous addiction to it. A cig here and there isn't particularly harmful to your health.

I'll definitely check out that Allen Carr book and keep my objective at quitting completely.

Post: #7

(10-17-2018 11:42 AM)PakMan Wrote:  The reason I'm opposed to having an all or nothing mentality is because I think everyone should strive towards establishing strong self-discipline and be able to control their intake of any substance even if they had a previous addiction to it. A cig here and there isn't particularly harmful to your health.

I am intellectually favorable to that idea but it's hard to deny that after smoking for a decade or more that if this approach actually worked, it would have worked by now. A different approach is needed.

Post: #8

I’ve been a smoker for 20+ years. I’m finally in the end stages of breaking the habit. There’s nothing good about smoking. As I’ve reduced the number of cigarettes, I see my athletic/gym progress surge forward.

In addition to the diminished lung capacity from smoking, there’s other health concerns caused by the daily ingestion of nicotine that don’t get the press they deserve. Nicotine is a vasoconstrictor. When they say smoking causes heart disease, this is why. The nicotine narrows your blood vessels. This raises your BP. It reduces circulation. It can fuck with your ability to get an errction. You may not notice these things at 29. Believe me when I say they can’t be ignored at 40+.

Fuck cigarettes, fuck nicotine.

Post: #9

I used to smoke heavily ~20 years ago (I also loved it) and quit (health, stink, etc - same reasons others quit) for many years, then got into premium cigars. One $16 premium mild cigar per week or every other week with some shots of Crown gets it out of my system. I hate cigarettes and cheap cigars now & don't want to vape to be a nicotine addict. But there is something magical, mysterious and therapeutic about chilling for an hour or two with a fine Diamond Crown Natural or Maduro Churchill, away from large groups of people on a patio or quiet cigar bar.

Post: #10

How does smoking help game... When I smoked girls would tell me my mouth tasted like smoke, so I had to constantly use breath spray etc... Also you smell like shit when you smoke.

Less and less kids are smoking, so unless you are into woman in their 30s you are making things harder with maybe 75% of girls.

Post: #11

(10-17-2018 01:22 PM)godfather dust Wrote:  How does smoking help game... When I smoked girls would tell me my mouth tasted like smoke, so I had to constantly use breath spray etc... Also you smell like shit when you smoke.

This is why I'm baffled when Gmanifesto talks about fly honies and posts pictures of women with a cigarette.....kissing a smoker tastes gross as fuck. It's like you're licking ashes.

Post: #12

(10-17-2018 01:22 PM)godfather dust Wrote:  How does smoking help game...

Smoking is a great means for isolation and makes for an easy approach. While nine dudes are trying to grind on her on a loud dance floor, you can roll up to her in a quiet environment with something already in common. Also, giving her a cigarette or light is an easy way to start things. Girls who smoke are also more likely to bang. Of course, you don't have to smoke to approach this way, but it helps.

I see where OP is coming from. The problem is that the vast, vast majority of smokers are unable to moderate how much they smoke. Quitting is an all or nothing proposition for them. I'm able to smoke a cigarette or two every several months without starting up a regular habit. I think this is a genetic thing. If you're a pack-a-day person, then you will most likely have to quit altogether. The sooner you banish the "cigarette once in a while, or only when I drink" idea from your head, the better.

Post: #13

As soon as I started to read Winston Wolfe's post in this thread I knew he read Alan Carr and lo and behold, near the end of post he mentions it. Now, regarding my experiences this is what I want to say.

Went out with a friend some time in May last year and while I am lighting my cigarette, I see that he is not lighting his and I ask him what is wrong (he was big smoker). He says couple of things about Carr's book and even says something akin to "I will not spoil you the method, read for yourself, it will blow your mind". Heh, he basically gamed me with this and I couldn't help but to be curious.
Now what happened? I stopped smoking completely by the end of first third of book. I am not joking. Recommended it to my other friend 2 days later. He says to me a week later how he is happily stopped smoking.

Read the book.

Post: #14

(10-17-2018 02:02 PM)sterling_archer Wrote:  As soon as I started to read Winston Wolfe's post in this thread I knew he read Alan Carr and lo and behold, near the end of post he mentions it. Now, regarding my experiences this is what I want to say.

Went out with a friend some time in May last year and while I am lighting my cigarette, I see that he is not lighting his and I ask him what is wrong (he was big smoker). He says couple of things about Carr's book and even says something akin to "I will not spoil you the method, read for yourself, it will blow your mind". Heh, he basically gamed me with this and I couldn't help but to be curious.
Now what happened? I stopped smoking completely by the end of first third of book. I am not joking. Recommended it to my other friend 2 days later. He says to me a week later how he is happily stopped smoking.

Read the book.

Book's really that good, huh? I'll be sure to give it a read.

Post: #15

Supposedly clinics founded by Carr have over 90% success rate. He is real deal and you will be surprised how simple things are about smoking.

Post: #16

(10-17-2018 11:15 AM)Winston Wolfe Wrote:  

(10-17-2018 10:21 AM)PakMan Wrote:  Truth is, like most smokers who have smoked for a decade or more, I love smoking. I don't want to quit completely, I just want to quit the habit of smoking close to a pack a day. Ideally, I would like to be at a point where I can comfortably have a cigarette some nights when I go out then not need one every hour after that. It's the habit and addiction I'd like to overcome.

This is smoker hamstering in its purest form.

The only, I repeat, the only reason you are smoking cigarettes is because you are addicted to nicotine. It starts there, it ends there, there is no middle ground. That, and only that, is the sole and only reason you are smoking them. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying or hamstering, and if you tell yourself otherwise, you are lying or hamstering.

Again: there is no middle ground. No buts and ifs.....

Agree and Disagree. I had this argument with my brother recently who is a long term smoker.

"Advantages":
There are some small advantages to smoking, being able to acknowledge them in my mind and then to point to the better reasons why works better for me. Generally smokers who quit end up hating smoking more than non smokers, but to me this is just intellectual honesty:
- date on my balcony: lighting up with a girl that can create a bond, when you have a girl who smokes, she likes to loosen up and have a smoke with a man, there is a sexual tension or something that happens.
- outside work : again people who smoke can be in a special club (of outcasts granted) but there is a level of bonding
- outside a bar / street game: yes you can open girls with a light or a smoke very easily. I've had attractive women come to me because they wanted a smoke, cheaper than a drink.
- fuck you attitude: probably the hardest part of quitting smoking is the fuck you attitude about life. Yes, its rebellious in its way, and by definition you are not thinking about your future. But that's the beauty of a fuck you attitude. But really you're fucking yourself

Disadvantages
On the whole, smoking hurts game.
- You lose any girls who don't smoke or you end up craving when you should be going for the bang
- Agree with Scotian non smokers are healthy and often the hottest (especially in Long Term)
- Your face wrinkles, teeth stain
- You lose cardio ability instantly , including during sex. I was smoking 5 cigs a night through the weeknights and it killed my B Ball Cardio
- Nicotine just weakens your muscles - just my theory, not actually sure how
- You're addicted, somehow that isn't cool and people know that

I believe smoking is both a social habit, personal habit, and a chemical addiction. I have quit a few times and have quit now for 8 days. As a light smoker, the most important thing is not drinking too much (or at all) in the initial 2 -4 weeks and changing up my routine a little to avoid patterns.

Also - agree with above, there is no middle ground. Especially for a heavy smoker. I played with the middle ground for 8 years and eventually I became a light smoker. (1/2 pack when drinking, 2 -5 cigs at night when not)

You can never date a smoker or run this game again

Lastly, once you have quit for a year, on the whole you will see the risk of smoking that cig is not worth it.

* I tried with some relative success in my office job to reduce by chewing Nicorette during the day, then I would puff a few cigs at night or cut them out Monday to Friday. This might be a good start if you actually want to cut down, but ultimately you get pulled back in and are still a hamster on the nicotine wheel chewing your gum wanting a smoke

Post: #17

What the fuck is a cigarette? It's all about juuls now a days, every cool kid does it.

Post: #18

No you're just hamstering.

Nicotine is a tricky devil. You'll think of every reason under the sun not to quit especially when you're in the thralls of quitting.

Good luck, get over your rationalizations.

Post: #19

Delete

Post: #20

(10-17-2018 11:42 AM)PakMan Wrote:  I agree with most posters that I definitely hamstering to some extent, but I disagree that the only reason I smoke is an addiction to nicotine. Out of all the cigs I smoke daily, I think probably only a few are due to an actual craving for nicotine. Most are just routine and killing time when there's nothing else to do. There is no doubt completely quitting is the best scenario and of course game doesn't require smoking.

I don't mind the harshness either. It's probably warranted at this point since I'm getting winded after just an hour of working out, which is unacceptable at 29.

The reason I'm opposed to having an all or nothing mentality is because I think everyone should strive towards establishing strong self-discipline and be able to control their intake of any substance even if they had a previous addiction to it. A cig here and there isn't particularly harmful to your health.

I'll definitely check out that Allen Carr book and keep my objective at quitting completely.

You are still hamstering. If only a few of the cigarettes you smoke are because of nicotine cravings, why do you smoke the others? Because girls like the taste of ashtray when you kiss them?

I repeat, the only reason you smoke is because of nicotine addiction. I was in denial of this myself for years and years, so believe me, I know exactly what thought patterns lead to these statements you're making.

Only when I finally accepted my nicotine addiction as fact was I able to finally get rid of them.

(10-17-2018 12:29 PM)Proud_Nimby Wrote:  I used to smoke heavily ~20 years ago (I also loved it) and quit (health, stink, etc - same reasons others quit) for many years, then got into premium cigars. One $16 premium mild cigar per week or every other week with some shots of Crown gets it out of my system. I hate cigarettes and cheap cigars now & don't want to vape to be a nicotine addict. But there is something magical, mysterious and therapeutic about chilling for an hour or two with a fine Diamond Crown Natural or Maduro Churchill, away from large groups of people on a patio or quiet cigar bar.

I smoke shisha every now and then. Once every blue moon I'll smoke a good cigar. But I would not recommend this to anyone who has recently quit, as the associations with cigarettes will be too strong and the chance of relapse too great.

(10-17-2018 01:49 PM)Lampwick Wrote:  I see where OP is coming from. The problem is that the vast, vast majority of smokers are unable to moderate how much they smoke. Quitting is an all or nothing proposition for them. I'm able to smoke a cigarette or two every several months without starting up a regular habit. I think this is a genetic thing. If you're a pack-a-day person, then you will most likely have to quit altogether. The sooner you banish the "cigarette once in a while, or only when I drink" idea from your head, the better.

This has nothing to do with genetics, you were probably never addicted (pack a day) in the first place. Keeping it light is one thing, but "cutting down" from a full blown addiction is almost impossible.

Agreed on having to banish the "cigarette once in a while" mentality. There is no such thing, it's the hamsters way of rationalizing your quitting attempt into a "quitting, but not really" attempt.

To quote Allen Carr, smokers who have "cut down" and now only smoke once in a while are even more miserable than full blown smokers, because they willingly deprive themselves of their nicotine addiction for prolonged periods and suffer because of it, only to finally give themselves release and start the process all over again.

And before you know it, they've had a big night out and are now back on a pack a day. Hamstering complete.

(10-17-2018 02:32 PM)PakMan Wrote:  Book's really that good, huh? I'll be sure to give it a read.

Start today. The book will give you a paradigm shift about the whole idea and nature of smoking. I had to read it 3 times over the span of 4 years (during 3 different quitting attempts). Even though rationally I knew what the book was saying was truth, 2 out of these 3 quitting attempts I still eventually relapsed. During the 3rd read I finally opened myself up and fully internalized the book's contents.

(10-17-2018 06:07 PM)NoMoreTO Wrote:   "Advantages":
There are some small advantages to smoking, being able to acknowledge them in my mind and then to point to the better reasons why works better for me. Generally smokers who quit end up hating smoking more than non smokers, but to me this is just intellectual honesty:
- date on my balcony: lighting up with a girl that can create a bond, when you have a girl who smokes, she likes to loosen up and have a smoke with a man, there is a sexual tension or something that happens.
- outside work : again people who smoke can be in a special club (of outcasts granted) but there is a level of bonding
- outside a bar / street game: yes you can open girls with a light or a smoke very easily. I've had attractive women come to me because they wanted a smoke, cheaper than a drink.
- fuck you attitude: probably the hardest part of quitting smoking is the fuck you attitude about life. Yes, its rebellious in its way, and by definition you are not thinking about your future. But that's the beauty of a fuck you attitude. But really you're fucking yourself

All of these "Advantages" are the hamster at work. There are no advantages, unless dieing of cancer at age 59 is considered an advantage.

Post: #21

(10-17-2018 11:10 PM)Winston Wolfe Wrote:  

(10-17-2018 01:49 PM)Lampwick Wrote:  I see where OP is coming from. The problem is that the vast, vast majority of smokers are unable to moderate how much they smoke. Quitting is an all or nothing proposition for them. I'm able to smoke a cigarette or two every several months without starting up a regular habit. I think this is a genetic thing. If you're a pack-a-day person, then you will most likely have to quit altogether. The sooner you banish the "cigarette once in a while, or only when I drink" idea from your head, the better.

This has nothing to do with genetics, you were probably never addicted (pack a day) in the first place. Keeping it light is one thing, but "cutting down" from a full blown addiction is almost impossible.

Predisposition to addiction is genetic. If someone has had significant exposure to nicotine and can revert to being a light smoker at will, then they are likely not genetically predisposed to nicotine addiction.

If another person has progressed to smoking a pack a day, they likely have the genetic predisposition, and therefore can't moderate their usage.

There are studies on this, like this one:

https://archives.drugabuse.gov/news-even...-addiction

I think we both agree with respect to OP. The point is that he may see people who can have a drink and a smoke on the weekend, and it's not a problem for them. That is not in the cards for him, and it never will be. People are different. The sooner he accepts that fact, the better off he'll be.

Quote:All of these "Advantages" are the hamster at work. There are no advantages, unless dieing of cancer at age 59 is considered an advantage.

There are advantages. Smoking is fun. At least at first. If you're addicted, then the disadvantages outweigh the advantages. This absolutist sentiment is kind of like the whole Just Say No campaign where they pretend that people only do drugs because of peer pressure or something. Getting drunk is fun. Getting high is fun. The downsides are often disastrous, but pretending like there's nothing attractive about them is counterproductive.

Post: #22

I only smoke when I go out... It's doable! Just grow a pair...

Remove the temptations during the week and substitute with deep breathing or get a decent vaporizer (but don't use it daily! or you'll have a new addiction). I also like to do some heavy cardio after a weekend of smoking... To fill my lungs with clean air, don't think it helps physically but it helps mentally for me.

It's all in your mind...

But yeah, cigarettes are great to get in contact with people...

Post: #23

(10-17-2018 06:07 PM)NoMoreTO Wrote:  I believe smoking is both a social habit, personal habit, and a chemical addiction. I have quit a few times and have quit now for 8 days. As a light smoker, the most important thing is not drinking too much (or at all) in the initial 2 -4 weeks and changing up my routine a little to avoid patterns.

Also - agree with above, there is no middle ground. Especially for a heavy smoker. I played with the middle ground for 8 years and eventually I became a light smoker. (1/2 pack when drinking, 2 -5 cigs at night when not)

This is a little bit confusing. Are you saying you're addicted? If you are addicted, are you trying to quit for good? If so, do you acknowledge that quitting means no more smoking, however light?

Post: #24

(10-18-2018 01:30 AM)Meliorare93 Wrote:  I only smoke when I go out... It's doable! Just grow a pair...

Remove the temptations during the week and substitute with deep breathing or get a decent vaporizer (but don't use it daily! or you'll have a new addiction). I also like to do some heavy cardio after a weekend of smoking... To fill my lungs with clean air, don't think it helps physically but it helps mentally for me.

It's all in your mind...

But yeah, cigarettes are great to get in contact with people...

Some people can do this, some cannot. It's not particularly helpful to challenge guys' manhood over it. For people who are addicted, it is not possible for them to cut down their usage effectively. Putting the message out there that anyone can do it just perpetuates their hamstering. Not everyone is like you.

Also, it's not possible to tell ahead of time if you're genetically predisposed to nicotine addiction. That's why starting smoking is one of the worst decisions you can make. It looks like the genes are pretty common, especially in black people:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20...124112.htm

Quote:"This new finding widens the scope of how genetic factors are known to influence nicotine dependence," Dana Hancock, Ph.D., genetic epidemiologist at RTI and co-author of the study. "The variant that we identified is common, occurring in 44 percent of Europeans or European Americans and 77 percent of African Americans, and it exerts important effects on gene regulation in human brain, specifically in the cerebellum, which has long been overlooked in the study of addiction."

Post: #25

(10-18-2018 01:13 AM)Lampwick Wrote:  Predisposition to addiction is genetic. If someone has had significant exposure to nicotine and can revert to being a light smoker at will, then they are likely not genetically predisposed to nicotine addiction.

If another person has progressed to smoking a pack a day, they likely have the genetic predisposition, and therefore can't moderate their usage.

There are studies on this, like this one:

https://archives.drugabuse.gov/news-even...-addiction

Fair enough, I guess some people are more prone to addiction than others.

Quote:There are advantages. Smoking is fun. At least at first. If you're addicted, then the disadvantages outweigh the advantages. This absolutist sentiment is kind of like the whole Just Say No campaign where they pretend that people only do drugs because of peer pressure or something. Getting drunk is fun. Getting high is fun. The downsides are often disastrous, but pretending like there's nothing attractive about them is counterproductive.

I'm not pretending there's nothing attractive about them or that they're not fun, I'm saying there are no advantages. They're two different things.

None of the "Advantages" listed before can't be done without a cigarette in your hand. I will say that you can take advantage of situations or social dynamics cigarettes allow you to be in or be part of. But there are no advantages to smoking cigarettes in and of itself.

Quote:I think we both agree with respect to OP. The point is that he may see people who can have a drink and a smoke on the weekend, and it's not a problem for them. That is not in the cards for him, and it never will be. People are different. The sooner he accepts that fact, the better off he'll be.

Yes I 100% agree on this. OP needs to look at himself and not to what other people are doing, because that is irrelevant. If someone can have a drink and a smoke on the weekend, good on them. But they are not you.