Post: #201

(09-08-2015 04:14 PM)MrLemon Wrote:  I had an indian friend who used to laugh about all this. "You americans actually believe that indians have all those skills" he laughed. "You guys really need to get a clue. Most of us indians have fewer skills than the people we're replacing, but we just lie on our resumes and you fall for it."

-- For myself, I like Indians and they fit into US society great. They are one of the best immigrant groups we've ever had. But don't kid yourself. They are frequently scamming.

They APPEAR to fit in a lot better than they actually fit in. They have many positive qualities, but don't forget that there is a reason their home country is as f*cked up as it is, and we're importing those reasons whenever we're importing them. Just because it's not obvious, in your face street crime doesn't mean it's not happening.

They've got in-group biases that put the Tribe to shame, and they can take over an office quickly by systematically sticking the knife in the back of their non-Indian colleagues, and then hooking up their Indian buddies with the job you just lost. They're smiling at you while they're doing it, so you may not see the malice, but the smile is more genuine when they're laughing with their buddies at the workplace you used to occupy.

You can like them, but never trust them.

Post: #202

Why are there no good Indian actors?

Because all the good ones are trying to get your bank details over the phone.

Post: #203

(08-31-2018 10:51 PM)DarkTriad Wrote:  

(09-08-2015 04:14 PM)MrLemon Wrote:  I had an indian friend who used to laugh about all this. "You americans actually believe that indians have all those skills" he laughed. "You guys really need to get a clue. Most of us indians have fewer skills than the people we're replacing, but we just lie on our resumes and you fall for it."

-- For myself, I like Indians and they fit into US society great. They are one of the best immigrant groups we've ever had. But don't kid yourself. They are frequently scamming.

They APPEAR to fit in a lot better than they actually fit in. They have many positive qualities, but don't forget that there is a reason their home country is as f*cked up as it is, and we're importing those reasons whenever we're importing them. Just because it's not obvious, in your face street crime doesn't mean it's not happening.

They've got in-group biases that put the Tribe to shame, and they can take over an office quickly by systematically sticking the knife in the back of their non-Indian colleagues, and then hooking up their Indian buddies with the job you just lost. They're smiling at you while they're doing it, so you may not see the malice, but the smile is more genuine when they're laughing with their buddies at the workplace you used to occupy.

You can like them, but never trust them.

Often true. But Indians can be huge backstabbers among themselves as well. The greed is there in a different way from say the Black community. But yeah often they will band together amidst the presence of other races.

Instead of gold chains & flashy rims, it's usually luxury cars + mansion + private schooling + jewelry from India + fancy sari's (womens' dresses) from India, etc. that they will typically want to spend on in a heartbeat sometimes to keep up with the other rich Patels so to speak. Image is everything within the community & they try to mask dysfunction and insecurities as much as possible.

Post: #204

(08-31-2018 11:36 PM)jordypip23 Wrote:  

(08-31-2018 10:51 PM)DarkTriad Wrote:  

(09-08-2015 04:14 PM)MrLemon Wrote:  I had an indian friend who used to laugh about all this. "You americans actually believe that indians have all those skills" he laughed. "You guys really need to get a clue. Most of us indians have fewer skills than the people we're replacing, but we just lie on our resumes and you fall for it."

-- For myself, I like Indians and they fit into US society great. They are one of the best immigrant groups we've ever had. But don't kid yourself. They are frequently scamming.

They APPEAR to fit in a lot better than they actually fit in. They have many positive qualities, but don't forget that there is a reason their home country is as f*cked up as it is, and we're importing those reasons whenever we're importing them. Just because it's not obvious, in your face street crime doesn't mean it's not happening.

They've got in-group biases that put the Tribe to shame, and they can take over an office quickly by systematically sticking the knife in the back of their non-Indian colleagues, and then hooking up their Indian buddies with the job you just lost. They're smiling at you while they're doing it, so you may not see the malice, but the smile is more genuine when they're laughing with their buddies at the workplace you used to occupy.

You can like them, but never trust them.

Often true. But Indians can be huge backstabbers among themselves as well. The greed is there in a different way from say the Black community. But yeah often they will band together amidst the presence of other races.

Instead of gold chains & flashy rims, it's usually luxury cars + mansion + private schooling + jewelry from India + fancy sari's (womens' dresses) from India, etc. that they will typically want to spend on in a heartbeat sometimes to keep up with the other rich Patels so to speak. Image is everything within the community & they try to mask dysfunction and insecurities as much as possible.

Half of the Indian and to a lesser extent Chinese family men in Australia own and drive either a Toyota Camry or Honda Accord. Image is everything otherwise.

Post: #205

(09-09-2015 10:06 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  

(09-08-2015 04:14 PM)MrLemon Wrote:  I had an indian friend who used to laugh about all this. "You americans actually believe that indians have all those skills" he laughed. "You guys really need to get a clue. Most of us indians have fewer skills than the people we're replacing, but we just lie on our resumes and you fall for it."

-- For myself, I like Indians and they fit into US society great. They are one of the best immigrant groups we've ever had. But don't kid yourself. They are frequently scamming.

Yeah, you should definitely try reporting to one of them. See how it works out for you.

I did report to one, several times. Got stabbed in the back. But nevertheless, I don't hate them especially. If they are legal immigrants, then they are welcome to come in and fight for their success in our capitalistic and competitive society. I don't trust the but if they are legal citizens then I treat them the same as everybody else.

Post: #206

I’ve met cool ones but many are very pompous, haughty and have a strange sense of superiority.

TDK

Post: #207

It would be wrong to prevent a million foreigners from entering into our competitive and capitalistic society merely because 900,000 of them will cheat, lie and steal to get ahead of the native population, then vote for another million of their co-ethnics to be imported.

#DinosaurLogic

Who could have possibly imagined that in-tribe preference could overwhelm the power of the magic dirt?

It's as if immigrants actually retain their ethnic and biological drivers when their plane touches down at LAX.

Unpossible!

Wait. I understand now. It's just the cultural Marxism of the progressives. That goes to explain why Chinese, Blacks, Indians, Jew's and Latinos all get along swimmingly with each other and only screw over whites.

Post: #208

(06-11-2015 06:52 AM)Disco_Volante Wrote:  This is bad for the U.S., but worldwide you can't deny capitalism and trade has improved countries like China and India greatly.

If you are willing to move abroad to chase opportunities I don't think this is that big of a deal, just the reality that U.S. labor is more replaceable and you must adapt more to find decent work.

From 1950s to 1990s the U.S. was extremely successful, and normal people could attain a nice standard of living.....now everyone's expectations are still that high but the world has changed and it's much more difficult......human innovation has forced our hand. That's why the oil field is so great....it's one of the last well paying American manufacturing jobs.

You are delusional if you enjoy the benefits of air travel, next day delivery, and internet but you refuse to adapt when technology makes your workplace more competitive. There's a ying and yang to technology.

Adapting is one thing. But people can't be expected to be willingly fucked up the arse.
The first problem is that the Western poltical system has been corrupted.
We're told political parties are watching our backs. But its a lie, they are only watching their corporativist backers.
Even guys worth 200m, ONE BILLION, are saying "the Super Elite control EVERYTHING". So the regular guy on 50k, 100k has no chance.

Its fine moving abroad if you are single. But what about those with 8, 10, 14 year old kids? Do they move to India... and then Vietnam when India's cost base rises? Do you want a Botswanan wife because wages are low there?

Tech might improve people's lives in some ways. But we shouldn't suck the Establishment's dick just because we have cars rather than horses and carts. In reality, many people's lives and standards are poorer than 20 years ago, for the young its often far poorer. We built the modern world far more so than little Lord Fauntleroy and the Rockerfellers. That's why there's such a move to censor Big Media. They can't accept the truth, beause their parasitic model with come crashing down. That's why they infested the economic left with fags, square jawed dykes and Islamists etc - to discredit and neuter it!

I'm a trader so I actually benefit from the current system. The problem is that its become so extreme, I have doubts as to its sustainability. It needs to get back to reality.

The current system is parasitic. First worlders with their high taxes and massive work over the past 150 years have created high currencies, quality infrastructures and the like, NOT the Rothschilds etc. Immigrant labour is the ultimate form of parasitism. I'm not even criticising immigrants because its inevitable that they will move somewhere with TEN times their own salary. But lets not kid ourselves they are doing US a favour.

If things keep going, America and Britain will be no wealthier on average than India or Bangladesh. Already the guy who works as a pizza delivery guy in London can go back home to Pakistan and live a better life than a lawyer in London. If you go there you would be absolutely mindblown. But the British guy can't move to Pakistan because if he's caught so much as carrying a bible he could be put in jail.. or worse. I remember how Indians in Goa would even beat up "migrants" from the state next door where Mumbai was situated. The current extreme form of globalism works fine for the 3rd worlders and the corporate billionaires. But its the Western masses that are funding and building it. They are the ones being pillaged tho.

The solution is clear. Boycott parasitic corporations who employ immigrant undercutting labour. Boycott those who unnecessarily offshore jobs. Boycott corporations who avoid local tax and lobby the democratic process out of existence. Form networks of Americans/Westerners who will ensure prosperity is retained not leeched off to the Rothschilds in the Caymans etc. Refuse to vote for the candidate in the pockets of vampiric businesses, put up an independent if necessary.

Post: #209

(08-31-2018 10:51 PM)DarkTriad Wrote:  

(09-08-2015 04:14 PM)MrLemon Wrote:  I had an indian friend who used to laugh about all this. "You americans actually believe that indians have all those skills" he laughed. "You guys really need to get a clue. Most of us indians have fewer skills than the people we're replacing, but we just lie on our resumes and you fall for it."

-- For myself, I like Indians and they fit into US society great. They are one of the best immigrant groups we've ever had. But don't kid yourself. They are frequently scamming.

They APPEAR to fit in a lot better than they actually fit in. They have many positive qualities, but don't forget that there is a reason their home country is as f*cked up as it is, and we're importing those reasons whenever we're importing them. Just because it's not obvious, in your face street crime doesn't mean it's not happening.

They've got in-group biases that put the Tribe to shame, and they can take over an office quickly by systematically sticking the knife in the back of their non-Indian colleagues, and then hooking up their Indian buddies with the job you just lost. They're smiling at you while they're doing it, so you may not see the malice, but the smile is more genuine when they're laughing with their buddies at the workplace you used to occupy.

You can like them, but never trust them.

Honestly, it isn't just Indians. Many immigrants who arrived very recently to their host country behave the same. Hell, I'll even say that people from other countries blow Indians out of the water when it comes to in group hiring.

My father who works in health told me when I was younger: Here in Texas, The only way you will get fair shake, in health, is if white people are in charge hiring you. He was partly exaggerating, but it is very true in a sense. He told me it's not that you won't get hired, but everyone, including his African people will self-select if they had to choose.

One thing that I noticed is that immigrants who arrived in America in the 60's to mid-late 80's are more integrated in society. Not because they have been here longer, but because there were less immigrants in general.

Post: #210

(09-01-2018 05:17 AM)Soundbyte Wrote:  

(08-31-2018 10:51 PM)DarkTriad Wrote:  

(09-08-2015 04:14 PM)MrLemon Wrote:  I had an indian friend who used to laugh about all this. "You americans actually believe that indians have all those skills" he laughed. "You guys really need to get a clue. Most of us indians have fewer skills than the people we're replacing, but we just lie on our resumes and you fall for it."

-- For myself, I like Indians and they fit into US society great. They are one of the best immigrant groups we've ever had. But don't kid yourself. They are frequently scamming.

They APPEAR to fit in a lot better than they actually fit in. They have many positive qualities, but don't forget that there is a reason their home country is as f*cked up as it is, and we're importing those reasons whenever we're importing them. Just because it's not obvious, in your face street crime doesn't mean it's not happening.

They've got in-group biases that put the Tribe to shame, and they can take over an office quickly by systematically sticking the knife in the back of their non-Indian colleagues, and then hooking up their Indian buddies with the job you just lost. They're smiling at you while they're doing it, so you may not see the malice, but the smile is more genuine when they're laughing with their buddies at the workplace you used to occupy.

You can like them, but never trust them.

Honestly, it isn't just Indians. Many immigrants who arrived very recently to their host country behave the same. Hell, I'll even say that people from other countries blow Indians out of the water when it comes to in group hiring.

My father who works in health told me when I was younger: Here in Texas, The only way you will get fair shake, in health, is if white people are in charge hiring you. He was partly exaggerating, but it is very true in a sense. He told me it's not that you won't get hired, but everyone, including his African people will self-select if they had to choose.

One thing that I noticed is that immigrants who arrived in America in the 60's to mid-late 80's are more integrated in society. Not because they have been here longer, but because there were less immigrants in general.

Huntington hits on this well in Who Are We - if you let in too many immigrants and specifically too many from specific places there is less assimilation as they are surrounded by people like them and there is less pressure to do so. Modern technology makes it easier too since they can go home 2x per year and watch TV in their own language.

The situation is not remotely comparable to a German getting on a boat in 1880 (and leftist attempts at comparison are disingenuous).

Post: #211

Post: #212

(08-31-2018 11:53 PM)JekyllAndHyde Wrote:  

(08-31-2018 11:36 PM)jordypip23 Wrote:  

(08-31-2018 10:51 PM)DarkTriad Wrote:  

(09-08-2015 04:14 PM)MrLemon Wrote:  I had an indian friend who used to laugh about all this. "You americans actually believe that indians have all those skills" he laughed. "You guys really need to get a clue. Most of us indians have fewer skills than the people we're replacing, but we just lie on our resumes and you fall for it."

-- For myself, I like Indians and they fit into US society great. They are one of the best immigrant groups we've ever had. But don't kid yourself. They are frequently scamming.

They APPEAR to fit in a lot better than they actually fit in. They have many positive qualities, but don't forget that there is a reason their home country is as f*cked up as it is, and we're importing those reasons whenever we're importing them. Just because it's not obvious, in your face street crime doesn't mean it's not happening.

They've got in-group biases that put the Tribe to shame, and they can take over an office quickly by systematically sticking the knife in the back of their non-Indian colleagues, and then hooking up their Indian buddies with the job you just lost. They're smiling at you while they're doing it, so you may not see the malice, but the smile is more genuine when they're laughing with their buddies at the workplace you used to occupy.

You can like them, but never trust them.

Often true. But Indians can be huge backstabbers among themselves as well. The greed is there in a different way from say the Black community. But yeah often they will band together amidst the presence of other races.

Instead of gold chains & flashy rims, it's usually luxury cars + mansion + private schooling + jewelry from India + fancy sari's (womens' dresses) from India, etc. that they will typically want to spend on in a heartbeat sometimes to keep up with the other rich Patels so to speak. Image is everything within the community & they try to mask dysfunction and insecurities as much as possible.

Half of the Indian and to a lesser extent Chinese family men in Australia own and drive either a Toyota Camry or Honda Accord. Image is everything otherwise.

That used to be the case in the USA. Might still be. But once some Indians cross a certain threshold, they like to only be seen in luxury vehicles lol.

Plus you also have to keep in mind whether or not the said guy came from "old money" back in India. Sometimes that makes a difference too.

I heard about an individual out here (do not know him personally) that is involved with staffing and outsourcing and drives a freaking Maserati Ghibli lol. Might also have an Audi SUV.

Post: #213

(09-01-2018 12:20 AM)MrLemon Wrote:  

(09-09-2015 10:06 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  

(09-08-2015 04:14 PM)MrLemon Wrote:  I had an indian friend who used to laugh about all this. "You americans actually believe that indians have all those skills" he laughed. "You guys really need to get a clue. Most of us indians have fewer skills than the people we're replacing, but we just lie on our resumes and you fall for it."

-- For myself, I like Indians and they fit into US society great. They are one of the best immigrant groups we've ever had. But don't kid yourself. They are frequently scamming.

Yeah, you should definitely try reporting to one of them. See how it works out for you.

I did report to one, several times. Got stabbed in the back. But nevertheless, I don't hate them especially. If they are legal immigrants, then they are welcome to come in and fight for their success in our capitalistic and competitive society. I don't trust the but if they are legal citizens then I treat them the same as everybody else.

Mr. Lemon, given the amount of time you've been on this forum, I'm amazed how blue pilled you can still be.

The immigration system - to include BS guest worker and other visas - is so corrupt that their legality versus illegality is a distinction without a difference. In other posts you bitch about how expensive it is to raise a family, complain about billionaires and your "inability as a man to control your own destiny." Then you get stabbed in the back by policies created to work against you and your reaction is pure, unadulterated cuck. WTF?

Wake up, dude. What are you now - 60? You don't have many years left to change your mindset.

Post: #214

First of all, I agree that immigration system in the US has lost the plot long ago.

But at a high level I'd like to say that businesses are generally going to do what's financially expedient for them. They are in the business of making money after all. If that means setting up corporate structures abroad, fine. If that means hiring Indians, fine.

I grew up around a ton of Indians both in Pennsylvania and in Florida. Had Indian friends and neighbors. They're generally nice, hard working people. They have funny accents and make good fodder for ribbing. And they take it all in good fun. Really have no problem with them.

Oh but have you worked with them?

Yes, among a bunch of other ethnic groups, I've hired Indians (from India) in my online business. One was brilliant and basically built one of our business's processes single-handedly; the rest were all twits.

Now I only hire from Eastern Europe because it's such a consistently good pool of talent. But I digress.

While I was in high school, my dad and his friends (all former Soviet scientists/engineers cum computer programmers) worked with hordes of Indians while putting in their time in corporate tech park suburbia. (Have you seen the movie Office Space? It's such an incredibly accurate picture of manicured middle class corporate America it's scary.)

My admittedly by-proxy understanding is that while there are some brilliant Indians doing exciting things in business and tech, there are a lot of incompetent Indians gumming up the works. Not to mention microwaving some really fragrant dishes in the communal cafeterias.

I'm not too worried about it though because the market punishes the companies that make stupid hiring decisions and fill their ranks with mediocrities.

In terms of letting in Indians or whoever else, I *would* say let them all in. But I won't.

Because while it may have been in the past, NOW it's not such a good idea.

And NOT because of some idiotic notion of protectionism (which does nothing to protect anybody.) But simply because the state has ballooned into such a mammoth dispensary of goodies, handouts and other stupidities (e.g. the minimum wage) that folks are incentivized to be as stupid, lazy and dishonest as possible, that it would serve as fuel to the collectivist fire.

People seem to forget that it is the twin force of minimalist government and open immigration that built the USA into a miraculous exemplar that the entire world could look to in the span of just over a century. Even the Industrial Revolution in Britain didn't produce the same growth, and that's largely because of their legacy class system and entrenched bureaucracies. Even then, at it's peak when the British navy was the most marvelous in all the world their government spending was a mere 10% of GDP.

I also don't know any better way in which highly dissimilar and even antagonistic groups can get along with one another than through the necessity of doing business and trade with each other without any kind of coercion or interference.

The difference is that back then, everybody who landed at Ellis Island (and got admitted) had to work his ass off to make something of themselves and give their kids a future because nobody gave them jack shit.

Relevant:





I'm seeing similar stupidity unfold here in Thailand that's more analogous perhaps to Mexican immigration in the USA than Indian immigration in the USA.

As some of you travelers know, the Thais have regulations that require foreign business owners to hire Thais in a 4:1 ratio to foreigners. This is example #3,178,098 of a measure undertaken with "noble" intentions (put Thais to work in favor of other groups) with predictably bad results (foreign business have trouble prospering because Thai employees aren't worth a damn).

The problem with the 4:1 ratio (or is it 3:1?) is that most Thais aren't worth a third or even a quarter of most foreigners in terms of work ethic, problem solving skills, and the ability to communicate directly and receive honest feedback without suffering grave humiliation from the loss of face. I can't even attribute it to face because Japanese have similar concepts and even stricter cultural protocols yet they rose from the rubble of war into a first world country.

Anyway, the Thais have this protectionist thing happening. And as it so happens, Thais highly suspicious of Burmese and Cambodian workers. For one, they're blamed from lots of crime (I don't know the stats so I can't say how much of this is reality and how much of it is scapegoating). But apropos to this convo, these groups come to Thailand and work for a fraction of the wages that most Thais would accept. So for this and other reasons they really don't want them here.

In fact, we had a Burmese cleaning crew at my condo and they were absolute legends. Super friendly, did a wonderful cleaning job, and just added good vibes to our habitations. Cooked some nice food from time to time and shared it with us too.

Then the cops showed up and demanded papers and work permits and all the rest of the bullcrap. So the Burmese left and were supplanted with 2 of the laziest, stupidest, incompetent Thai cleaning girls I've ever seen in my life.

I actually broke a glass in my room and warned one of the cleaning ladies to be careful while pointing at the broken glass and picking up and showing her the bigger shards. She just said mai pen rai (no worries) and stepped barefooted directly into a mess of little glass fragments I shit you not.

Those 2 nincompoops were eventually fired after a bunch of tenants complained that their rooms had been cleaned in a maladroit fashion.

If businesses are in the business of making money, and foreign workers who are willing to come to a country and work for cheap provide businesses the ability to lower expenses while affording the workers to learn valuable on the job skills and compete with locals through their chief competitive advantage - which is the willingness to accept a much lower wage - then that's what the business will do.

Are there are equally competent Thais who will work for the same or lower wages? If yes, then the businesses could just as easily hire them. But Thais generally have better opportunities available to them.

Recently we also had some new rules go into effect that forbid hotel owners from renting rooms for longer than a month without a hotel license, and the cops have started cracking down on those too.

These are ALL rackets. And they all allege good intentions. But they all lead to loss of livelihood, loss of opportunity, and more money in the pockets of bureaucrats instead of normal people.

Speaking of Indians, I believe it was Osho who said that becoming a politician is the ugliest thing that can happen to a man.

p.s. I may or may not have hired an Indian on Upwork to write this post for me.

Post: #215

(09-01-2018 01:16 AM)thedarkknight Wrote:  I’ve met cool ones but many are very pompous, haughty and have a strange sense of superiority.

TDK

I'm just going to explain a bit here. One of the main reasons people think they're a "model minority" is because only the top 1% of educated, wealthy Indians even have a chance of immigrating to America. They seem "high class" because they ARE the "high class" back home. They have this "strange sense of superiority" because these are all people with servants and people kissing their asses all day back in India. It gets worse because they saw their country get absolutely manhandled by the West in 10-1 battles, and then had the West modernize their country with railroads and whole bunch of other stuff that was massively superior to what had been going on before, so they've got and a big superiority complex aggravated by the fact that they've got an even bigger inferiority complex they're compensating for at the same time. Along with a whole lot of other fucked up baggage from their culture. To them, regular Americans seem incredibly advanced/advantaged in some areas, and tremendously ghetto in others. This complicates their already complicated relationship with their new home.

Post: #216

(09-01-2018 12:52 PM)DarkTriad Wrote:  

(09-01-2018 01:16 AM)thedarkknight Wrote:  I’ve met cool ones but many are very pompous, haughty and have a strange sense of superiority.

TDK

I'm just going to explain a bit here. One of the main reasons people think they're a "model minority" is because only the top 1% of educated, wealthy Indians even have a chance of immigrating to America. They seem "high class" because they ARE the "high class" back home. They have this "strange sense of superiority" because these are all people with servants and people kissing their asses all day back in India. It gets worse because they saw their country get absolutely manhandled by the West in 10-1 battles, and then had the West modernize their country with railroads and whole bunch of other stuff that was massively superior to what had been going on before, so they've got and a big superiority complex aggravated by the fact that they've got an even bigger inferiority complex they're compensating for at the same time. Along with a whole lot of other fucked up baggage from their culture. To them, regular Americans seem incredibly advanced/advantaged in some areas, and tremendously ghetto in others. This complicates their already complicated relationship with their new home.

While you are partially correct about a significant percentage of the Indians that have come to the USA historically, I would also wager that some of those IT workers & nurses coming in more recently from say southern India actually hail from more "middle class" but upwardly mobile backgrounds thanks to whatever degree system they have engaged in back in India. The engineering & IT industry has generated a significant middle class right in India itself.

Post: #217

(09-01-2018 12:20 AM)MrLemon Wrote:  

(09-09-2015 10:06 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  

(09-08-2015 04:14 PM)MrLemon Wrote:  I had an indian friend who used to laugh about all this. "You americans actually believe that indians have all those skills" he laughed. "You guys really need to get a clue. Most of us indians have fewer skills than the people we're replacing, but we just lie on our resumes and you fall for it."

-- For myself, I like Indians and they fit into US society great. They are one of the best immigrant groups we've ever had. But don't kid yourself. They are frequently scamming.

Yeah, you should definitely try reporting to one of them. See how it works out for you.

I did report to one, several times. Got stabbed in the back. But nevertheless, I don't hate them especially. If they are legal immigrants, then they are welcome to come in and fight for their success in our capitalistic and competitive society. I don't trust the but if they are legal citizens then I treat them the same as everybody else.

You don't have to hate them to realize they might not be the best thing for America, and that the laws that are letting them be here legally in the first place need to changed. Or enforced. The system that's letting them into this country legally in such numbers is obviously broken (as evidenced by the story in the OP). The standard for HB1 is for jobs we have a shortage of people for, if Americans are being forced to train their replacements then that alone demonstrates we don't have a shortage of them.

NAFTA and Mexican immigration broke much of the blue collar middle class, and the Indians are being brought in to break the educated middle class. Someone has to stop this or we're going to be another 3rd world hellhole with no middle class. And a large middle class is the only thing that makes a democracy work, they're educated enough to make decisions for their people, but still have enough skin in the game to want everyone to be taken care of. Otherwise it's just elites manipulating proles with bread and circuses.

Post: #218

(09-01-2018 01:11 PM)DarkTriad Wrote:  

(09-01-2018 12:20 AM)MrLemon Wrote:  

(09-09-2015 10:06 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  

(09-08-2015 04:14 PM)MrLemon Wrote:  I had an indian friend who used to laugh about all this. "You americans actually believe that indians have all those skills" he laughed. "You guys really need to get a clue. Most of us indians have fewer skills than the people we're replacing, but we just lie on our resumes and you fall for it."

-- For myself, I like Indians and they fit into US society great. They are one of the best immigrant groups we've ever had. But don't kid yourself. They are frequently scamming.

Yeah, you should definitely try reporting to one of them. See how it works out for you.

I did report to one, several times. Got stabbed in the back. But nevertheless, I don't hate them especially. If they are legal immigrants, then they are welcome to come in and fight for their success in our capitalistic and competitive society. I don't trust the but if they are legal citizens then I treat them the same as everybody else.

You don't have to hate them to realize they might not be the best thing for America. The system that's letting them into this country legally in such numbers is obviously broken (as evidenced by the story in the OP). The standard for HB1 is for jobs we have a shortage of people for, if Americans are being forced to train their replacements then that alone demonstrates we don't have a shortage of them.

NAFTA and Mexican immigration broke much of the blue collar middle class, and the Indians are being brought in to break the educated middle class. Someone has to stop this or we're going to be another 3rd world hellhole with no middle class. And a large middle class is the only thing that makes a democracy work, they're educated enough to make decisions for their people, but still have enough skin in the game to want everyone to be taken care of. Otherwise it's just elites manipulating proles with bread and circuses.

Interesting point. This line of thinking may also provide the blueprint for some "art of the deals" in which Mexican (ie. auto industry) & Indian workers (ie. IT industry) can remain based in their home country while working for a multinational corporation. That may be a business model that corporations may want to adopt increasingly in the future rather than having to bring everyone to the US shores. I have observed firsthand that many of the comfortably middle class folks from these growing cohorts actually don't even desire to leave from their home base of Mexico or India where much of their families are.

Post: #219

(09-01-2018 01:06 PM)jordypip23 Wrote:  

(09-01-2018 12:52 PM)DarkTriad Wrote:  

(09-01-2018 01:16 AM)thedarkknight Wrote:  I’ve met cool ones but many are very pompous, haughty and have a strange sense of superiority.

TDK

I'm just going to explain a bit here. One of the main reasons people think they're a "model minority" is because only the top 1% of educated, wealthy Indians even have a chance of immigrating to America. They seem "high class" because they ARE the "high class" back home. They have this "strange sense of superiority" because these are all people with servants and people kissing their asses all day back in India. It gets worse because they saw their country get absolutely manhandled by the West in 10-1 battles, and then had the West modernize their country with railroads and whole bunch of other stuff that was massively superior to what had been going on before, so they've got and a big superiority complex aggravated by the fact that they've got an even bigger inferiority complex they're compensating for at the same time. Along with a whole lot of other fucked up baggage from their culture. To them, regular Americans seem incredibly advanced/advantaged in some areas, and tremendously ghetto in others. This complicates their already complicated relationship with their new home.

While you are partially correct about a significant percentage of the Indians that have come to the USA historically, I would also wager that some of those IT workers & nurses coming in more recently from say southern India actually hail from more "middle class" but upwardly mobile backgrounds thanks to whatever degree system they have engaged in back in India. The engineering & IT industry has generated a significant middle class right in India itself.

In countries with tiny middle classes, sometimes a middle class guy with a degree IS in the top 1%. I use the "maid rule". If you come from someplace where you have servants, you're usually top 1%. The American idea of middle class just isn't quite the same.

Post: #220

(09-01-2018 01:17 PM)DarkTriad Wrote:  

(09-01-2018 01:06 PM)jordypip23 Wrote:  

(09-01-2018 12:52 PM)DarkTriad Wrote:  

(09-01-2018 01:16 AM)thedarkknight Wrote:  I’ve met cool ones but many are very pompous, haughty and have a strange sense of superiority.

TDK

I'm just going to explain a bit here. One of the main reasons people think they're a "model minority" is because only the top 1% of educated, wealthy Indians even have a chance of immigrating to America. They seem "high class" because they ARE the "high class" back home. They have this "strange sense of superiority" because these are all people with servants and people kissing their asses all day back in India. It gets worse because they saw their country get absolutely manhandled by the West in 10-1 battles, and then had the West modernize their country with railroads and whole bunch of other stuff that was massively superior to what had been going on before, so they've got and a big superiority complex aggravated by the fact that they've got an even bigger inferiority complex they're compensating for at the same time. Along with a whole lot of other fucked up baggage from their culture. To them, regular Americans seem incredibly advanced/advantaged in some areas, and tremendously ghetto in others. This complicates their already complicated relationship with their new home.

While you are partially correct about a significant percentage of the Indians that have come to the USA historically, I would also wager that some of those IT workers & nurses coming in more recently from say southern India actually hail from more "middle class" but upwardly mobile backgrounds thanks to whatever degree system they have engaged in back in India. The engineering & IT industry has generated a significant middle class right in India itself.

In countries with tiny middle classes, sometimes a middle class guy with a degree IS in the top 1%. I use the "maid rule". If you come from someplace where you have servants, you're usually top 1%. The American idea of middle class just isn't quite the same.

Good point. This may be true. But there are still different levels to everything. Take a city like Mumbai for example (analogous to NYC or Los Angeles in the USA). The highest echelon of folks in this city as absolutely preposterously loaded. Billionaires, I'm sure quite a few millionaires. It is like that effect you feel when you're walking around Manhattan & you know there are some super loaded international & NY money around town.

But a city like Mumbai is severely offset by a HUGE underclass, slums, abject poverty. It is almost sickening & sad to witness, but it is what it is. Would compare it to say Chicago where you have people living the good life in the north side & the lakefront, but it is a welfare state gang driven warzone in the hoods of the South & West sides of town. At least hood dudes in Chicago seem to find food on their plate though.

Post: #221

(09-01-2018 01:37 PM)jordypip23 Wrote:  

(09-01-2018 01:17 PM)DarkTriad Wrote:  

(09-01-2018 01:06 PM)jordypip23 Wrote:  

(09-01-2018 12:52 PM)DarkTriad Wrote:  

(09-01-2018 01:16 AM)thedarkknight Wrote:  I’ve met cool ones but many are very pompous, haughty and have a strange sense of superiority.

TDK

I'm just going to explain a bit here. One of the main reasons people think they're a "model minority" is because only the top 1% of educated, wealthy Indians even have a chance of immigrating to America. They seem "high class" because they ARE the "high class" back home. They have this "strange sense of superiority" because these are all people with servants and people kissing their asses all day back in India. It gets worse because they saw their country get absolutely manhandled by the West in 10-1 battles, and then had the West modernize their country with railroads and whole bunch of other stuff that was massively superior to what had been going on before, so they've got and a big superiority complex aggravated by the fact that they've got an even bigger inferiority complex they're compensating for at the same time. Along with a whole lot of other fucked up baggage from their culture. To them, regular Americans seem incredibly advanced/advantaged in some areas, and tremendously ghetto in others. This complicates their already complicated relationship with their new home.

While you are partially correct about a significant percentage of the Indians that have come to the USA historically, I would also wager that some of those IT workers & nurses coming in more recently from say southern India actually hail from more "middle class" but upwardly mobile backgrounds thanks to whatever degree system they have engaged in back in India. The engineering & IT industry has generated a significant middle class right in India itself.

In countries with tiny middle classes, sometimes a middle class guy with a degree IS in the top 1%. I use the "maid rule". If you come from someplace where you have servants, you're usually top 1%. The American idea of middle class just isn't quite the same.

Good point. This may be true. But there are still different levels to everything. Take a city like Mumbai for example (analogous to NYC or Los Angeles in the USA). The highest echelon of folks in this city as absolutely preposterously loaded. Billionaires, I'm sure quite a few millionaires. It is like that effect you feel when you're walking around Manhattan & you know there are some super loaded international & NY money around town.

But a city like Mumbai is severely offset by a HUGE underclass, slums, abject poverty. It is almost sickening & sad to witness, but it is what it is. Would compare it to say Chicago where you have people living the good life in the north side & the lakefront, but it is a welfare state gang driven warzone in the hoods of the South & West sides of town. At least hood dudes in Chicago seem to find food on their plate though.

You can't really compare any American slum to what's going on someplace like Mumbai. The disparity is orders of magnitude greater, and let's be honest, the dysfunction is most driven by the craptacular values of the people there. This is vastly different from countries with no opportunities. You can (and have) dropped poor people from various countries with better values is similar situations and they're out and prosperous in no time. American rappers like Biggie are complaining about living in public housing, but try explaining that to someone living in a Favela that he's complaining about being given free, first world housing with plumbing and electricity. And food stamps so he'll never go hungry. Free schooling and affirmative action that will likely give him a college scholarship as long as he's not a complete idiot, shows up for class and does his homework like he's supposed to. The thing he's really complaining about is having to live surrounded by assholes like himself.

Post: #222

(09-01-2018 01:11 PM)DarkTriad Wrote:  

(09-01-2018 12:20 AM)MrLemon Wrote:  

(09-09-2015 10:06 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  

(09-08-2015 04:14 PM)MrLemon Wrote:  I had an indian friend who used to laugh about all this. "You americans actually believe that indians have all those skills" he laughed. "You guys really need to get a clue. Most of us indians have fewer skills than the people we're replacing, but we just lie on our resumes and you fall for it."

-- For myself, I like Indians and they fit into US society great. They are one of the best immigrant groups we've ever had. But don't kid yourself. They are frequently scamming.

Yeah, you should definitely try reporting to one of them. See how it works out for you.

I did report to one, several times. Got stabbed in the back. But nevertheless, I don't hate them especially. If they are legal immigrants, then they are welcome to come in and fight for their success in our capitalistic and competitive society. I don't trust the but if they are legal citizens then I treat them the same as everybody else.

You don't have to hate them to realize they might not be the best thing for America, and that the laws that are letting them be here legally in the first place need to changed. Or enforced. The system that's letting them into this country legally in such numbers is obviously broken (as evidenced by the story in the OP). The standard for HB1 is for jobs we have a shortage of people for, if Americans are being forced to train their replacements then that alone demonstrates we don't have a shortage of them.

NAFTA and Mexican immigration broke much of the blue collar middle class, and the Indians are being brought in to break the educated middle class. Someone has to stop this or we're going to be another 3rd world hellhole with no middle class. And a large middle class is the only thing that makes a democracy work, they're educated enough to make decisions for their people, but still have enough skin in the game to want everyone to be taken care of. Otherwise it's just elites manipulating proles with bread and circuses.

Chuckle. I'm not disagreeing. I think the H1B program be shut down completely and the legal immigration spigot should be clamped wayyy down. I also posted a thread saying that Google and Facebook should be forced to hire Americans only, at gunpoint if necessary. We have more than enough immigrants to absorb from the past few decades of high volume immigration.

I believe Trump and (maybe) Sessions are on track to do all these things.

I also think that it's almost inevitable that there will be HUGE changes in the way that software is allowed to be used cross-borders. Few people understand this. It's going to be very strange. Right now, if India decided, for whatever reason, to declare war on the US, they could shut down all the software we're using, and our economy would crash instantly. People have no idea how much we're vulnerable to this. Our infrastructure power generation, city governments, food distribution, etc, is all running on big enterprise software systems that are mostly maintained and written by Indians. They are masters at making these applications almost impossible to backwards-engineer (ask any good coder about this). So we are totally vulnerable. Trump and his generation are oblivious to this.

So removing h1b Indian contractors from our economy is going to take a lot of care. It's like removing an alien parasite that has it's tentacles wound through your body. Tricky.

Post: #223

(09-01-2018 12:36 PM)VincentVinturi Wrote:  First of all, I agree that immigration system in the US has lost the plot long ago.

But at a high level I'd like to say that businesses are generally going to do what's financially expedient for them. They are in the business of making money after all. If that means setting up corporate structures abroad, fine. If that means hiring Indians, fine.
...

Great post, but ultimately what is the role of the government at it's essence? To drive the success of business or see to the future of its people?

If the people are lazy is it the role of the government to light a fire under their ass by importing foreign competition?

I comprehend your frustrations with moronic locals and your wish to be free to replace them with more competent, diligent foreigners, but make no mistake, governments must be by the people, of the people, for the people. Not by the business owners for the GDP.

Thailand for the Thais. Even if it means shitty service. Their country, their choice.

Post: #224

What makes me angry about the "logic" of "capitalism" (the crony capitalism we have today at least) is how large corporations can justify firing thousands of workers and offshoring (or automating) their jobs to increase profits yet at the same time the company can justify paying the CEO in some cases hundreds of millions of dollars to "manage" the company when the are plenty of qualified, experienced and capable people who could do the job just as well or even better for less than one tenth of the pay. The top executives (and board of directors) of most large corporations are truly low life scum, sociopaths and criminals. The general motors executives who during the financial crises flew to Washington in a private jet to ask for a taxpayer bailout of their company was emblematic of today's large corporation executives. Let them eat cake indeed.

Large corporations will cut back on the tiniest expenses while simultaneously chauffeuring the top executives around in Limousines, private jets and throwing lavish Christmas parties for them. At a large company I work for the CEO is based at the company head office at Melbourne (I work in Sydney). We always keep coffee, tea and biscuits on hand for our customers. At one point there was a decision by head office with an accompanying company memo restricting the types of biscuits we could order (as some biscuits were deemed too expensive) and keep in mind the biscuits were for customers not for employees. Meanwhile around the same time when the CEO decides to visit the Sydney operations of the company for a day when he gets off the plane he hires a BMW to drive around for the day (he couldn't just hire a Toyota for the day?). I get angry when I hear the oft repeated tripe that corporations care about profits and are bound to act in the best interests of shareholders. Actually corporations (i.e. the people that run them) care about the interests of the board and management first (i.e. self interest) and then shareholders a distant second and then every other stakeholder group a very distant third.

Post: #225

Between the slaves and the plantation owner is the man with the whip and the slave hounds.

You have to pay him extra because you're buying his soul as well as his time.