Post: #126

In my view, why use propecia, which f*cks with your hormones, when you might be able to get results with just Rogaine + a dermaroller? I would at least try that combo for 9 months, or hair transplant surgery, and then just use propecia as a last-ditch try if you are very desperate (which you shouldn't be), given the potential side effects.

Even if there is only a 1% chance your libido will suffer after Propecia, do you want to risk it?

(10-18-2017 01:38 PM)little wing Wrote:  

(10-18-2017 07:54 AM)Gopnik Wrote:  @littlewing how long did you take it for?

I've been on finasteride for almost 3 months now and so far so good.

No significant side effects (zero loss of libido etc.) and hair loss seems to have stabilised, although it's hard to tell as I keep my hair quite short.

My brother has been on it for over 2 years now and he's also doing ok.

I'll post an update in a couple of months if anything changes but I don't think it's as bad as people might think.

I totally agree that it's not worth losing your libido in exchange of your hair and men should definitely keep an eye for side effects.

However, there's millions of men that have tried it and a lot of them have succesfully stopped or stabilised their hairloss so I wouldn't completely rule it out.

Used it for 1 week, only had very mild sides while on it(watery ejaculate, that's all).

Was fine after stopping but then a few months later I started getting symptoms of androgen deprivation. The kind of symptoms males get when they start therapy to become females.

I don't want to go into too much detail about my side effects and make you paranoid but it were physical, genital and mental/cognitive changes that I could observe that seemed to line up right with the side effects reported by other users who experienced them AFTER quitting the drug(also I had the same experience as fortysix who posted below me).


I have had blood tests and my testosterone is above the reference range for males my age and my estrogen is super low, basically what you want as a male. I also eat healthy, lift multiple times a week, take Vitamin D/zinc/magnesium etc. so It's not due to my lifestyle. My diet and lifestyle before taking propecia were a lot worse than now, still I was feeling much better sexually and mentally, I also looked more attractive imho.

I took a stupid gamble with my health and now I'm paying the price. I have to live with that decision probably for the rest of my life. Looking back I wish I would not have taken it but alas, all I can do is keep moving forward and make the most out of it. Looking back my hair loss was definitely not that bad, I was just very worried about it progressing and everywhere I looked people advised to take finasteride. Now I have a thick, luscious head of hair but honestly I'd rather have a buzz cut with a receded hairline and my health back

Post: #127

Hey guys,

I was on Finasteride (very low dose) and it fucked with my libido and erections. As it did with 4 of the 5 friends I personally know. I wouldn't go anywhere near that shit.

Question - you can get oral Minoxidil tablets, much more convenient. Anyone know of any side effects (other than lowering your blood pressure too much)? It seems to be a good alternative but once bitten twice shy with hair medication.

PF.

Post: #128

As a general warning, I think we need to take the 1% side effects of finasteride as dubious information. From all the guys I've talked to that have tried it, a very large number seem to have side effects. On internet forums, so many guys are reporting problems, including some that are much worse than what is stated officially. Many men probably are experiencing problems without knowing that it is the finasteride that is causing it, as it usually is a gradual decline in libido.

I don't think the 1% is correct, I think it is a number that the manufacturers and the pharma industry have manipulated. Finasteride is a dangerous drug. Try everything else before resorting to that option.

Post: #129

I agree with this statement. I was on it for 5 years, and have been off it for about the same, and only now are things working as expected again. I can tell you, it's a REALLY good feeling to have my random boners back throughout the day - you don't realise it until it's gone. My hair doc said in his experience 'in the wild' that 20% of guys experience this side effect.

Still keen to hear anyones views on oral minoxidil.

Post: #130

Men tend to lose hair to some degree as they age. As well, men tend to lose their ease of arousal (erections) as they age. Correlation is not necessarily causation. I am not suggesting that Finesteride is safe. I am merely suggesting that some of the side effects could just be the result of the natural aging process. Chemicals or not, my hair and boners are just a shadow of my former 18 year-old self.

Post: #131

So I recently heard about a new iteration of finasteride, that of TOPICAL finasteride. Instead of pill-popping, you spray it on your hair.

Like many, I have been hesitant to try finasteride orally due to the side effects, but recently heard about some doctors doing topical finasteride formulations, and they're seeing better results and no side effects compared to the pill.

It seems logical to me that it would be more effective because it is applied at the scalp at the point of need. (At this stage though, extensive studies have yet to be done.)

Anyone heard of this or tried this?

Post: #132

Until such time as I see a product advertised during half time of the Champions League Final, I'll keep my money in my pocket. When something comes along that really works, you won't be able to avoid it.

Post: #133

Could somebody remind me of the name of the man developing the hair transplant where they just take one of your hairs then clone it into however many you want in a lab then implant them? Hopefully he's making some progress because even if I could get that in 10 years, it would be great!

Post: #134

It'll be 2020 when they first try, dream, and then it'll take 2 years probably to see if that's better than FUE from the lower areas of hair that are currently usually used as donor samples, the ones that are resistant to the effects making you bald or thin already (ischemia and testosterone in the context of your genes).

Post: #135

(10-26-2018 01:27 PM)the-dream Wrote:  Could somebody remind me of the name of the man developing the hair transplant where they just take one of your hairs then clone it into however many you want in a lab then implant them? Hopefully he's making some progress because even if I could get that in 10 years, it would be great!

At 36, I'm still good (only balding at the crown), but it advanced rapidly this year. I actually noticed it for the first time about 18 months ago, and the bald spot has definitely progressed. Give it another 6 months to a year, and it'll probably be time for me to shave/closely trim my head and start doing push ups ever morning and bicep curls afterwards, haha. The good thing is I have a great head, I've actually trimmed it all the way to zero like 4 times in my life prior, it's a very masculine look, so it's all good. Plus I'm a minimalist, so it goes with my ethos.

That said, between hair and no hair, I do prefer hair, if only because maintaining a trimmed head is a pain, you gotta trim every day or every few days, and it kind of makes a mess. Logistically, having hair is the much easier way to go. Either looks good, though, with hair I blend in a bit more, it's a more charming jerk look, while with a zero trim, I look much more masculine/aggressive.

Post: #136

(10-26-2018 01:27 PM)the-dream Wrote:  Could somebody remind me of the name of the man developing the hair transplant where they just take one of your hairs then clone it into however many you want in a lab then implant them? Hopefully he's making some progress because even if I could get that in 10 years, it would be great!

In my mid-30's, I'm still good (only balding at the crown), but it advanced rapidly this year. I actually noticed it for the first time about 18 months ago, and the bald spot has definitely progressed. Give it another 6 months to a year, and it'll probably be time for me to shave/closely trim my head and start doing push ups ever morning and bicep curls afterwards, haha. The good thing is I have a great head, I've actually trimmed it all the way to zero several times before and it's a very masculine look, so it's all good. Plus I'm a minimalist, so it goes with my ethos.

That said, between hair and no hair, I do prefer hair, if only because maintaining a trimmed head is a pain, you gotta trim every day or every few days, and it kind of makes a mess. Logistically, having hair is simply the much, much easier way to go. Either looks good, though with hair I blend in a bit more, it's a more charming jerk look, while with a zero trim, I look much more masculine/aggressive.

Pills are a no-go for me, I like to have sex 2 or 3 times a day, and anything that may interfere with that is an instant hell no, not happening. If a super-safe method like the one you mentioned ever comes out, where they don't have to cut you up, and no pills need to be taken after, I'd be open to it.

Post: #137

(08-20-2018 06:48 AM)rottenapple Wrote:  As a general warning, I think we need to take the 1% side effects of finasteride as dubious information. From all the guys I've talked to that have tried it, a very large number seem to have side effects. On internet forums, so many guys are reporting problems, including some that are much worse than what is stated officially. Many men probably are experiencing problems without knowing that it is the finasteride that is causing it, as it usually is a gradual decline in libido.

I don't think the 1% is correct, I think it is a number that the manufacturers and the pharma industry have manipulated. Finasteride is a dangerous drug. Try everything else before resorting to that option.

I got finasteride-like sides from taking saw palmetto, which is nowhere near as powerful, so I 100% believe that shit is dangerous. Rogaine worked for me, used 5% foam for around five years combined with Nioxin shampoo and conditioner applied with a scalp massager. I eventually dropped the rogaine and seem to be keeping most of my hair. The thinning I went through was like a storm I needed to take shelter from.

Post: #138

Anyone had a look at the stem cell approach - plasma hair regrowth?

Benefits shown here in studies. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4622412/

Non surgical procedure. Usual cost 300-400 dollars a session. Requires three sessions perhaps. Sees results within 6 months.

First blood will be extracted from your vein and placed in a special test tube to be centrifuged. Meanwhile Local Anaesthetic cream will be applied to your scalp to numb the area and avoid any discomfort.
The PRP is then injected into the affected areas of the scalp.
Micro-needling procedure then takes place to activate the PRP. This creates tiny wounds in the scalp and triggers a healing response.

Post: #139

^ PRP seems to be somewhat effective, but there is a lot of marketing in the providers. Not all centrifuge kits work the same, some work terribly, but you would never know that as a normal patient.

Note that a lot of providers are adding the term 'stem cells' to the PRP procedure when as a point of fact, PRP does NOT contain stem cells. It is thought to activate them in the scalp to some extent, but the injections themselves do NOT contain stem cells. They contain platelets. Hence the name 'platelet rich plasma' (not 'stem cell plasma').

Having said that, there IS a newer hair treatment which utilizes your stem cells, harvested from your fat stores. The procedure is done by doing a mini-liposuction on an area of fat that you have like your love handles or buttocks, liquifying and extracting the fat (adipose cells), manipulating the extractions and then injecting it into your scalp. This injection DOES contain stem cells, and has shown positive results.

For an example of this newer stem cell treatment look up Kerastem. Or look up Dr. Barrusco in Daytona Beach, who currently does the lipo- stem cell method and discusses difference between the stem cell treatment vs regular prp. He has good before and afters as well.

Post: #140

Bros -- I recently did a hair transplant and got very good results. I had some results using other treatments (Rogaine, a dermaroller, and PRP), but the hair transplant gave much better results (although, it was also more expensive and more invasive).

I look younger and better in a way that definitely helps with women. If you are balding you should be thinking seriously about a transplant.

Post: #141

I was on finasteride for two years, combined with ketoconazole 2% 3x per week and minoxidl 5% 2x per day. I got my hairline back to where I was in my mid 20s (I'm almost 40 now). Basically full head of hair with a tiny bit of Geheimratsecken.

But I had the dreaded side effects from finasteride. Absolutely zero libido. Poor erection quality. Little ejaculate and barely-there orgasms. And I'm on TRT with ideal hormone levels.

I got off of Propecia in May 2018. Hair shed somewhat and has stabilized now. I went from a NW 1.25 to a NW 1.75. Crown is taking the biggest hit, which I'll need to address with a dermaroller or tretinoin. I'm still using the keto shampoo and Rogaine religiously. If I weren't, I know my hair would look a lot worse.

Sex drive has come back somewhat, but it's not like before. At times I get desire again, and then I feel like a young buck. Biggest difference is with erection quality: while on fin it felt like my brain and dick weren't linked at all. Off fin I feel them connected again. I can definitely get an erection and maintain it more easily now. DHT affects many parts of your body, especially your central nervous system, so it makes sense that I felt cut off from my dick while on fin.

Orgasms are better but not earth-shattering like they were before.

I depress easily and found that any lingering depression issues that I had disappeared once I went off fin.

I'd tell you guys to never touch the stuff and use me as an example, but I'm not really upset about the outcome. I read a million reviews and studies before taking the plunge with Propecia, so I knew the risks with the drug. And I got the sides. I look at this as a life lesson in a long life.

I'm also married, so sex life is pretty subdued anyway. If I were single, I think I'd be more upset.

The only advice I would give is to try first the prescription-strength ketoconazole first (2%, need a script) and Rogaine. After that, try dermarolling. Dermarolling with a 2mm spike is a major pain-in-the-ass, but look at this guy's results, with zero systemic sides.

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/th...ss.117746/

Post: #142

Some things to mention.

Toppix works extremely well, don't knock it. It's a great way to delay a hair transplant for a few years.

My brother is on oral minoxidil. The doses are much lower than what is prescribed for high blood pressure. He was prescribed this by Dr Path in Thailand after his HT. I'm going to see a Dr tomorrow about this.

Post: #143

The best products at the moment appear to be:

1) Minoxidil (5%) combined with dermarolling
2) Nizoral shampoo
3) Finesteride (the topical form is also an option if you wish to reduce side effects)
aka the "big three"

A couple of other options:
1) Trinov - new release from Italy end of last year 6 sprays a day a day.
2) RU58841 is experimental and I have tried it in the past but it never did phase three testing and I'm a bit wary about it and long term effects.

Most shit out there is snake oil. The above do have clinical studies behind them.

At the moment I'm using minoxidil, nizoral shampoo and trying out trinov. This is combined with laser brush once per week. This could also be combined with PRP once a year for maintainance.

This is all for maintenance. At some point will need to bite the bullet and do a hair transplant and then continue the maintainance shit thereafter.

Post: #144

(02-04-2019 11:13 AM)Vincent Chase Wrote:  The best products at the moment appear to be:

1) Minoxidil (5%) combined with dermarolling
2) Nizoral shampoo
3) Finesteride (the topical form is also an option if you wish to reduce side effects)
aka the "big three"

A couple of other options:
1) Trinov - new release from Italy end of last year 6 sprays a day a day.
2) RU58841 is experimental and I have tried it in the past but it never did phase three testing and I'm a bit wary about it and long term effects.

Most shit out there is snake oil. The above do have clinical studies behind them.

At the moment I'm using minoxidil, nizoral shampoo and trying out trinov. This is combined with laser brush once per week. This could also be combined with PRP once a year for maintainance.

This is all for maintenance. At some point will need to bite the bullet and do a hair transplant and then continue the maintainance shit thereafter.

I would swap the Nizoral Shampoo for a dermaroller. But, actually, screw all that, just go right to a hair transplant if you can, and use this stuff as supplements. If you can't, go bald.

Post: #145

(02-04-2019 02:26 PM)Ceasar Wrote:  

(02-04-2019 11:13 AM)Vincent Chase Wrote:  The best products at the moment appear to be:

1) Minoxidil (5%) combined with dermarolling
2) Nizoral shampoo
3) Finesteride (the topical form is also an option if you wish to reduce side effects)
aka the "big three"

A couple of other options:
1) Trinov - new release from Italy end of last year 6 sprays a day a day.
2) RU58841 is experimental and I have tried it in the past but it never did phase three testing and I'm a bit wary about it and long term effects.

Most shit out there is snake oil. The above do have clinical studies behind them.

At the moment I'm using minoxidil, nizoral shampoo and trying out trinov. This is combined with laser brush once per week. This could also be combined with PRP once a year for maintainance.

This is all for maintenance. At some point will need to bite the bullet and do a hair transplant and then continue the maintainance shit thereafter.

I would swap the Nizoral Shampoo for a dermaroller.

Yes I'm using a dermaroller as well.

Post: #146

Has anyone here tried liquid caffeine or caffeinated shampoo?

Post: #147

I use the caffeine shampoo (the German Alpicine). I don't think it does much but it does make my hair feel nice and is cheap anyway.

"The makers of Alpecin Caffeine Shampoo must no longer advertise that the product can reduce hair loss after a watchdog ruled there was no adequate evidence to support the claim."

Here in Australia they were legally required to change the wording on the bottle around this.


In other news, I've just been prescribed 5mg oral minoxidil daily from my GP. This is also the same dose my brother is on from Dr Path in Thailand.

However, I have also seen this - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4887583/. Dr Sinclair from Australia puts women on 0.25mg (and in some cases increases up to 0.5mg) daily. Also, this resource says 0.625mg is the right dose - http://www.srft.nhs.uk/EasysiteWeb/getre...ype=Inline

I'm concerned I'm taking too much at 5mg daily. In general I response very well to medications, i.e. I am very sensitive to them.

My question is - let's say I wanted to start taking 0.5mg or 1mg per day, how would I go about this? My tablets are 10mg and a pretty small to start with. Do people crush them up, put them in water and use a dropper or something?

Post: #148

Coffee shampoos such as Alpecine don’t do shit. Nizoral (ketoconazole 2%) is the gold standard in shampoos, the rest are snake oil.

Post: #149

I've been taking Avodart and finasteride for around a year now and had moderate results.

I increased density in the middle where it was thinning ever so slightly but the hairline is still receded with no sign of improvement. I think i'm more or less stable now. The big plus is that i'm way into my 30s now so I think half of people my age are also balding so its not as a big deal as it once was. I remember at 24 thinking I would be bald before 30 and my life would be over. That anxiety is over now (although I would obviously rather have a full head of hair).

Post: #150

The only downside with Nizoral is it turns your hair into dry frizzy steel wool, especially if you use 2% and use it daily.