Post: #126

Why would small claims take a year? That sounds nuts. Yeah it was about 5 weeks end to end I think

Post: #127

@the dream no the police denied her protection order as the judge pointed out. It was such obvious bullshit they just rejected it outright

Court case cost like $200. Ring was $6000. Pretty worthwhile imo

Post: #128

Glad it worked out for you, OP.

My hope for you is that you continue to grow and become a man who has better things to do that focus on getting even every time.

It's not that I'm not glad you put the bitch in her place, but I'm sure you would like to have bigger fish to fry; ideally be the man whose time is worth too much to spend an hour in small claims court, even if there is $6000 worth of value to be gained.

Post: #129

This is a pretty badass story and thread, congratulations on winning, I admit I didn't think you would, but do be careful about getting married

Post: #130

(08-04-2018 04:10 AM)Suits Wrote:  Glad it worked out for you, OP.

My hope for you is that you continue to grow and become a man who has better things to do that focus on getting even every time.

It's not that I'm not glad you put the bitch in her place, but I'm sure you would like to have bigger fish to fry; ideally be the man whose time is worth too much to spend an hour in small claims court, even if there is $6000 worth of value to be gained.

It's all relative because if you're following the two month salary custom you're telling someone to brush off hundreds of hours of hard work so an unscrupulous woman can steal something she doesn't deserve. It is well established both legally and in tradition that an engagement ring gift is entirely contingent on the marriage actually going through and there's no grey area here. Not letting people get away with slimy moves discourages them from trying it again.

Post: #131

@suits appreciate the kind words. There were other factors at play than just the $$ she actually filed a police report claiming domestic violence and sexual abuse then told police not to pursue it further. But it still showed up on my record. I mentioned this in another post but one of the reasons to do something like this is if your relationship ends in an acrimonious fashion and there is an injustice on behalf of the partner a court case will make everything come to light. If I didn’t go after her for the engagement ring that police report would not have come to light. Another reason (which you may or may not agree with) is that I think you should ALWAYS hit back when someone tries to take advantage financially if you are someone of means. I won’t repeat what I wrote earlier in the thread but this has worked out well for me. Usually I have a lawyer handle it but this was my first small claims case.

Post: #132

Quick data sheet for anyone in a similar situation

1) focus on the facts and don’t try any personal attacks even implied. There was evidence I brought out of sexts between the ex and another man. I was very tempted to insert some not so nice commentary, and even read the steamy parts out loud but don’t do this! Let her be the one to crack emotionally. Similar to game.

2) if you want to cite legal precedent you must have a citation number or the judge can’t look it up. In my case it actually worked out because the precedent I found was WEAKER than the one the judge knew about.

3) write out the entire case before hand. Do not try to wing it. You have limited time and must make your case in a very concise manner.

4) never speak to the defendant or plaintiff directly. Only the judge. And always say “the defendant” and not their name.

5) don’t mansplain a female judge! At one point I found myself explaining something I didn’t think a woman would know and was shot down quick! That was the worst part of the case for me but luckily my other parts were so strong it won out.

6) ok this is somewhat of a “dirty trick” but you have to exchange evidence with each other beforehand. There is nothing that says what you give her must be easily sortable so the pages I handed her were completely out of order whereas me and the judges had nice collated copies with an index. The effect of this was when I brought up an exhibit she would frantically search for the correct one and by the time she found it I was on to the next. Time is really short so the effect of this was that she was not able to come up with effective rebuttals. I’m hesitant to really recommend doing this as I’m well aware it’s a bit of a shady tactic but I’m the type of person who wants to win at all costs while still playing by the rules, so take this one with a grain of salt.

7) i won’t go into specifics but during the course of the case the judge mentioned that both of us had basically admitted to committing a felony (OOPS) the judge was nice about it and provided a remediation that did not require any criminal charges but don’t knowingly incriminate yourself!

8) do not mention things that are irrelevant to the case! Have clear and concise arguments and state them in the very beginning. For me it was “the defendant was the one who terminated the engagement” and all of my evidence painted a narrative toward this thesis. I had tons of dirt on her that I did NOT bring out because attacking her character is counter productive. You are not trying to discredit a witness here so avoid that temptation. Her on the other hand with her hamster logic brought her mother on the stand just to testify that she cooked and cleaned, went to one wedding expo, and that she was sometimes upset about our relationship (which justified her claiming domestic violence in her mind). What a moron. Don’t be her.

8) court is NOT the place to show your charisma. I had to tone the fuck down especially since it was a female judge. I acted like the most boring guy you ever met.

That’s all I got for now. Hope it helps someone in a similar boat.

Post: #133

Congrats on getting the ring back and thanks for giving a good rundown on how the process worked. You may have mentioned this in this thread but I couldn't find it. In the Seeking Arrangement thread you mentioned:

Quote: I was in a 2 year LTR with someone on the site with the exact same story. Ended up being a complete psycho. We were even engaged but she was very very good at hiding her true nature.

Is this the same person you gave the ring to?

Post: #134

That is a crazy story but congrats on winning. I will admit that I, like everyone else,was rather skeptical on this whole thing but props to you for believing and fighting for yourself. It goes to show you that there is something to be said about standing up for yourself and fighting. A lot of guys who go through divorces could use this as an example and fight hard for themselves. I think the biggest reason that many guys get screwed in divorces is that they won't stand up for themselves enough or believe in themselves enough to fight. Your court tactics were good too, especially the handing over evidence in a disorganized fashion to the defendant. I agree that in a court in front of a judge you have to be as humble and straight laced as possible. Good stuff, lots of lessons here in this tale.

Post: #135

@gringuito yup!

I was extremely naive and this whole experience was a huge wake up red pill for me. Thankful it ended the way it did and I didn’t marry the bitch.

And yes I agree with everyone saying I shouldn’t have gone into it in the first place. But sometimes love is blind. I’m pretty skeptical and cautious at work but in my personal life i am very trusting and always see the best in people. I don’t necessarily want to get rid of those qualities but I do need to learn more discernment.

Post: #136

(08-04-2018 10:17 AM)Gringuito Wrote:  Congrats on getting the ring back and thanks for giving a good rundown on how the process worked. You may have mentioned this in this thread but I couldn't find it. In the Seeking Arrangement thread you mentioned:

Quote: I was in a 2 year LTR with someone on the site with the exact same story. Ended up being a complete psycho. We were even engaged but she was very very good at hiding her true nature.

Is this the same person you gave the ring to?

So...

A woman found on Seeking Arrangement wouldn't return valuables?

Wonders truly never cease.

Post: #137

I respect the OP for following his guts, and getting the Ring Back with judicious planning and great execution. Regardless of the law... I still view it as a Gift but hey. At least it wasn't as hardious as most of us thought it would be!

Post: #138

By the way OP it's obvious that you're extremely intelligent. Your brilliance oozes out of your writing quite clearly. There's always a Ying to a Yang though! You're also the type of Dude to put these Hoes on a pedestal with gift & riches straight out the gate! Be careful... And Don't try to turn a Ho into a Housewife!

Post: #139

Congratulations for winning, but take care to not find yourself in similar situations in the future. You have better things to do (and better women to fuck) than that.

Post: #140

@captain gh you’re absolutely right. I was not really red pilled until this happened. People always perceived me as an alpha in life and business but I was always a hopeless romantic when it came to relationships and women took advantage of that.

Post: #141

(08-04-2018 10:39 AM)AznMarkZuckerberg Wrote:  @gringuito yup!

I was extremely naive and this whole experience was a huge wake up red pill for me. Thankful it ended the way it did and I didn’t marry the bitch.

And yes I agree with everyone saying I shouldn’t have gone into it in the first place. But sometimes love is blind. I’m pretty skeptical and cautious at work but in my personal life i am very trusting and always see the best in people. I don’t necessarily want to get rid of those qualities but I do need to learn more discernment.

Seeking arrangement girls are semi-pros, why on earth would you even consider going the distance with one of those girls.

Congrats on getting your ring back.

Post: #142

Can't believe you guys still are buying into this story.

Post: #143

Could you expand a little bit on her behavior in court, how the judge treated her, her case in chief, etc...

(08-04-2018 10:02 AM)AznMarkZuckerberg Wrote:  Quick data sheet for anyone in a similar situation

1) focus on the facts and don’t try any personal attacks even implied. There was evidence I brought out of sexts between the ex and another man. I was very tempted to insert some not so nice commentary, and even read the steamy parts out loud but don’t do this! Let her be the one to crack emotionally. Similar to game.

2) if you want to cite legal precedent you must have a citation number or the judge can’t look it up. In my case it actually worked out because the precedent I found was WEAKER than the one the judge knew about.

3) write out the entire case before hand. Do not try to wing it. You have limited time and must make your case in a very concise manner.

4) never speak to the defendant or plaintiff directly. Only the judge. And always say “the defendant” and not their name.

5) don’t mansplain a female judge! At one point I found myself explaining something I didn’t think a woman would know and was shot down quick! That was the worst part of the case for me but luckily my other parts were so strong it won out.

6) ok this is somewhat of a “dirty trick” but you have to exchange evidence with each other beforehand. There is nothing that says what you give her must be easily sortable so the pages I handed her were completely out of order whereas me and the judges had nice collated copies with an index. The effect of this was when I brought up an exhibit she would frantically search for the correct one and by the time she found it I was on to the next. Time is really short so the effect of this was that she was not able to come up with effective rebuttals. I’m hesitant to really recommend doing this as I’m well aware it’s a bit of a shady tactic but I’m the type of person who wants to win at all costs while still playing by the rules, so take this one with a grain of salt.

7) i won’t go into specifics but during the course of the case the judge mentioned that both of us had basically admitted to committing a felony (OOPS) the judge was nice about it and provided a remediation that did not require any criminal charges but don’t knowingly incriminate yourself!

8) do not mention things that are irrelevant to the case! Have clear and concise arguments and state them in the very beginning. For me it was “the defendant was the one who terminated the engagement” and all of my evidence painted a narrative toward this thesis. I had tons of dirt on her that I did NOT bring out because attacking her character is counter productive. You are not trying to discredit a witness here so avoid that temptation. Her on the other hand with her hamster logic brought her mother on the stand just to testify that she cooked and cleaned, went to one wedding expo, and that she was sometimes upset about our relationship (which justified her claiming domestic violence in her mind). What a moron. Don’t be her.

8) court is NOT the place to show your charisma. I had to tone the fuck down especially since it was a female judge. I acted like the most boring guy you ever met.

That’s all I got for now. Hope it helps someone in a similar boat.

Post: #144

@lowercaseG

She behaved herself professionally in court. Judge treated both of us fairly imo, very professional and unbiased. The ex’s case was very hard to follow, but essentially boiled down to:

1) she cooked and cleaned
2) i hurt her feelings when we argued which = domestic violence (wtf?)
3) I did not meet conditions of engagement so she should not have to return the ring (these conditions were all in her own head)