Post: #26

The original Canadian incel rage killer shot and killed a bunch of female engineering students with a rifle back in 1989.

Quote:Marc Lépine; born Gamil Rodrigue Liass Gharbi; October 26, 1964 – December 6, 1989) was a Canadian mass murderer from Montreal, Quebec, who in 1989 murdered 14 women, and wounded 10 women and four men[note 1] at the École Polytechnique, an engineering school affiliated with the Université de Montréal, in the École Polytechnique massacre, also known as the "Montreal Massacre".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_L%C3%A9pine

Post: #27

(07-23-2018 02:53 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  I do not think they will ever find the root cause.
Someone mentioned Islam. Same shit.
They are already aware of incels in general. They call them losers, crazy, and bitter. Blue pill white-knights step in to parrot and echo that sentiment.
Shit, when are people going to acknowledge the mental illness root causes? "Oh my God, he is crazy!" They still get bewildered at the "crazy person". Stepping over the dead bodies to repeat the same madness every day.
You cannot solve a complex issue if you cannot identify the root cause.

Quote:Giving sight to the blind
The dumb are mostly intrigued by the drum
Death only one can save self from

-Masta Killa WuTang Clan

Truth!

I had this conversation with a female college professor some time ago. We humans are essentially social animals. When one of us feels rejected and isolated by the group they become mentally unstable. Most of these boys hang themselves in a closet and nobody gives a shit. Suicide rate for boys is sky high.

Sometime... sometimes one of these isolated and rejected boys decides to get revenge on the group and go out with a bang.

Now girls rarely become isolated or rejected. They get used... but never get fully rejected. So, women absolutely cannot relate to the feelings of these incels, because women are born with intrinsic social value.

In the old days this was never an issue because you would pick up your weapons and go to war... and if you won you would take the women of your enemy and your incels would be incels no more.

Post: #28

Marc Lépine : “I consider myself a rational erudite“

Elliot Rodger : “I am a Supreme Gentleman”

Post: #29

I recall hearing that today’s human population is descended from twice as many women as men so that throughout the entire history of the human race something like 80% of women reproduced but only 40% of men passed on their genes.

Mate selection has always been super competitive throughout the ages, and usually top tiered men were the ones who were able to pass on their genes. These incels would have been toast at any point throughout history. The establishment of Christianity which promoted monogamy, (hence 1 man 1 woman allowing lower tiered men to actually get a woman) and the evolution towards secular society which recognized the family unit as the stabilizing force of civilization, was a huge boon to betas and incels.

From what I've seen a lot of these self-identified incels have developmental or emotional issues that require help way above the paygrades of normal people.

I wouldn't expect a woman with any sort of self-preservation would go for an incel like Alex Minassian who would meow in class and display out of the norm behaviour. This is a guy who would be one of the 60% of men who would not get the chance to pass on his genes unless via war/rape/slavery and that is assuming he wasn't cannon fodder to start off with.

Post: #30

(07-23-2018 04:12 PM)EndsExpect Wrote:  

(07-23-2018 02:53 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  I do not think they will ever find the root cause.
Someone mentioned Islam. Same shit.
They are already aware of incels in general. They call them losers, crazy, and bitter. Blue pill white-knights step in to parrot and echo that sentiment.
Shit, when are people going to acknowledge the mental illness root causes? "Oh my God, he is crazy!" They still get bewildered at the "crazy person". Stepping over the dead bodies to repeat the same madness every day.
You cannot solve a complex issue if you cannot identify the root cause.

Quote:Giving sight to the blind
The dumb are mostly intrigued by the drum
Death only one can save self from

-Masta Killa WuTang Clan

Truth!

I had this conversation with a female college professor some time ago. We humans are essentially social animals. When one of us feels rejected and isolated by the group they become mentally unstable. Most of these boys hang themselves in a closet and nobody gives a shit. Suicide rate for boys is sky high.

Sometime... sometimes one of these isolated and rejected boys decides to get revenge on the group and go out with a bang.

Now girls rarely become isolated or rejected. They get used... but never get fully rejected. So, women absolutely cannot relate to the feelings of these incels, because women are born with intrinsic social value.

In the old days this was never an issue because you would pick up your weapons and go to war... and if you won you would take the women of your enemy and your incels would be incels no more.

"In the old days", i.e. during the period of monogamy on which western Christian culture was founded and which is now crumbling before our eyes, the dating market was nowhere near as out of whack as it is today for all but the most desirable men, so the problem of there being a significant, and growing, percentage of sexually disenfranchised males locked out of the dating market did not exist.

Post: #31

(07-23-2018 04:12 PM)EndsExpect Wrote:  

(07-23-2018 02:53 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  I do not think they will ever find the root cause.
Someone mentioned Islam. Same shit.
They are already aware of incels in general. They call them losers, crazy, and bitter. Blue pill white-knights step in to parrot and echo that sentiment.
Shit, when are people going to acknowledge the mental illness root causes? "Oh my God, he is crazy!" They still get bewildered at the "crazy person". Stepping over the dead bodies to repeat the same madness every day.
You cannot solve a complex issue if you cannot identify the root cause.

Quote:Giving sight to the blind
The dumb are mostly intrigued by the drum
Death only one can save self from

-Masta Killa WuTang Clan

Truth!

I had this conversation with a female college professor some time ago. We humans are essentially social animals. When one of us feels rejected and isolated by the group they become mentally unstable. Most of these boys hang themselves in a closet and nobody gives a shit. Suicide rate for boys is sky high.

Sometime... sometimes one of these isolated and rejected boys decides to get revenge on the group and go out with a bang.

Now girls rarely become isolated or rejected. They get used... but never get fully rejected. So, women absolutely cannot relate to the feelings of these incels, because women are born with intrinsic social value.

In the old days this was never an issue because you would pick up your weapons and go to war... and if you won you would take the women of your enemy and your incels would be incels no more.

...and those sometimes guys are on SSRI`s. I think that it the triggering element.

Post: #32

The shooter has been identified. Still no word on motive.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/po...-1.4757566

Quote:Faisal Hussain ID'd as gunman in deadly Danforth attack, Special Investigations Unit says

Faisal Hussain has been identified as the gunman in the deadly Danforth Avenue shooting rampage.

Ontario's Special Investigations Unit (SIU) released Hussain's identity on Monday evening, hours after he opened fire on a number of Danforth Avenue restaurants, killing two people and injuring 13 more.

Hussain, 29, then died of a gunshot wound after exchanging fire with Toronto police.

Post: #33

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/globalne...allon/amp/

Post: #34

Post: #35

(07-23-2018 04:33 PM)Vronsky Wrote:  I recall hearing that today’s human population is descended from twice as many women as men so that throughout the entire history of the human race something like 80% of women reproduced but only 40% of men passed on their genes.

Mate selection has always been super competitive throughout the ages, and usually top tiered men were the ones who were able to pass on their genes. These incels would have been toast at any point throughout history. The establishment of Christianity which promoted monogamy, (hence 1 man 1 woman allowing lower tiered men to actually get a woman) and the evolution towards secular society which recognized the family unit as the stabilizing force of civilization, was a huge boon to betas and incels.

From what I've seen a lot of these self-identified incels have developmental or emotional issues that require help way above the paygrades of normal people.

I wouldn't expect a woman with any sort of self-preservation would go for an incel like Alex Minassian who would meow in class and display out of the norm behaviour. This is a guy who would be one of the 60% of men who would not get the chance to pass on his genes unless via war/rape/slavery and that is assuming he wasn't cannon fodder to start off with.

You bring up a great point. But also those 40 percent app. of men who mated, (no doubt this figure would vary over time and under different circumstances) where among the few men who even made it into adulthood. So they had strong genes to begin with. Now that basically all children make it, and with other elements like older mothers, poor diets, environmental toxins etc, there are a lot of men that just don`t have the genetic material fit for reproduction. Although I think some, like Minassian, where destroyed by poor diet (and possibly pharma as well) and could have been successful otherwise.

Post: #36

Faisal Hussain ID'd as gunman in deadly Danforth shooting attack

Figures as much since it took so long to release the name. If it was a white guy with a gun...imagine the narrative? Especially to offset the all gang-related shootings in Toronto over the last couple of weeks. As usual you have the same Twitter apologists saying "Don't rush so quick to conclusions". That's the hypocrisy with the left and their selective outrage...they don't show mercy when its a white male shooter or "incel" rage, but when its the Mohammads or Hussains its "don't you dare blame Islam".

Post: #37

A quote from the family (emphasis mine):

"While we did our best to seek help for him throughout his life of struggle and pain, we could never imagine that this would be his devastating and destructive end."

How it plays out on the forum and the manosphere:

1). A mentally ill man has no friends or girlfriends because he's mentally ill.

2). Because of this, he doesn't get to have sex.*

3). Everyone here focuses on #2 but ignores #1, which caused #2 to begin with.

I urge everyone here to volunteer at a residential facility or rehab place with mentally ill men. You'll see guys who look relatively normal, but once you get them talking it's clear they're completely out to lunch. They can often scare people away with one sentence.

Since women will dismiss guys over the wrong pair of shoes, you can damn well bet they'll run screaming when a man starts rambling about how he just spoke to George Washington.

Attempting to micro-define the mentally ill as mere "incels" puts the cart before the horse. It does a disservice to everyone involved, misses the point, and plays into the hands of feminists who think "all men are like this underneath!" and get the masses to believe this.

But as I said before, if mere sexual frustration led to killings, 90 percent of male high school sophomores would be mass shooters. If not having sex creates problems, why don't priests and monks go on shooting sprees? Why don't men in wheelchairs plant bombs everywhere?

There's more to this, people. Let's recognize that.

* Even this is a leap. A lot of mentally troubled men go to prostitutes or have sex with homeless women when they hit the streets. This is a lower rung of the social ladder most of us don't see. It's not pleasant. But it's there. I know someone who worked with people like this who joked they had more sex than "normal" people.

Post: #38

(07-23-2018 05:01 PM)[email protected] Wrote:  



https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/globalne...allon/amp/

A group of politically active young liberal women! Sounds like the shooter knew who they where to me.

Post: #39

https://toronto.citynews.ca/2018/07/22/d...-shooting/

Seems like this is going to be framed as a mental health or guns issue when it seems clear this is another incel rampage. Men with an ample supply of pussy don't kill over a one-itis. Game can save lives, but seriously, it isn't any fix to a broken sexual market place like Toronto.

Post: #40

P4FL.

Post: #41

(07-23-2018 05:10 PM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  A quote from the family (emphasis mine):

"While we did our best to seek help for him throughout his life of struggle and pain, we could never imagine that this would be his devastating and destructive end."

How it plays out on the forum and the manosphere:

1). A mentally ill man has no friends or girlfriends because he's mentally ill.

2). Because of this, he doesn't get to have sex.*

3). Everyone here focuses on #2 but ignores #1, which caused #2 to begin with.

I urge everyone here to volunteer at a residential facility or rehab place with mentally ill men. You'll see guys who look relatively normal, but once you get them talking it's clear they're completely out to lunch. They can often scare people away with one sentence.

Since women will dismiss guys over the wrong pair of shoes, you can damn well bet they'll run screaming when a man starts rambling about how he just spoke to George Washington.

Attempting to micro-define the mentally ill as mere "incels" puts the cart before the horse. It does a disservice to everyone involved, misses the point, and plays into the hands of feminists who think "all men are like this underneath!" and get the masses to believe this.

But as I said before, if mere sexual frustration led to killings, 90 percent of male high school sophomores would be mass shooters. If not having sex creates problems, why don't priests and monks go on shooting sprees? Why don't men in wheelchairs plant bombs everywhere?

There's more to this, people. Let's recognize that.

* Even this is a leap. A lot of mentally troubled men go to prostitutes or have sex with homeless women when they hit the streets. This is a lower rung of the social ladder most of us don't see. It's not pleasant. But it's there. I know someone who worked with people like this who joked they had more sex than "normal" people.

But a guy doesn't just become mentally ill in a vacuum, does he? Being confined to a permadrought, sexually-speaking, wreaks havoc on a guy's self-esteem and general state of well-being and, although not primarily the cause in some cases, acts nevertheless like an potent accelerant on a fire. Maybe you're putting the cart before the horse in pushing the rather vague notion of "mental illness" as a sui generis explanation for incel spree shootings, instead of accepting the elephant in the room: that the more young, horny guys there are who are locked out of the sexual market place, the more likely it is that an albeit tiny fraction of them will decide to externalize their frustration by hitting up a public location full of women. By arguing, "Why doesn't every incel Tom, Dick and Harry go on a shooting spree when their dry spell becomes too much to handle ... ?", as a way to look at this phenomenon, misses the point. The response should be the same as regards the recent Islamic invaders of the West: Not every one of them is going take out a bunch of shoppers at the Christmas Market, but every additional migrant duly increases the chances that this will happen. The same logic applies to incels: Not every incel shoots up the local mall, it is true, but every guy who shoots up the mall these days seems to be an incel. That such shootings are becoming increasingly frequent is thus largely a function of the numbers of sexually disenfranchised men shut out of the market having increased significantly in recent years.

Post: #42

(07-23-2018 05:14 PM)Johnnyvee Wrote:  

(07-23-2018 05:01 PM)[email protected] Wrote:  



https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/globalne...allon/amp/

A group of politically active young liberal women! Sounds like the shooter knew who they where to me.

Almost every young girl in Toronto fits this discription...

Every Toronto girl in University would be classified as such, each one.

Post: #43

(07-23-2018 05:43 PM)Feldeinsamkeit Wrote:  

(07-23-2018 05:10 PM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  A quote from the family (emphasis mine):

"While we did our best to seek help for him throughout his life of struggle and pain, we could never imagine that this would be his devastating and destructive end."

How it plays out on the forum and the manosphere:

1). A mentally ill man has no friends or girlfriends because he's mentally ill.

2). Because of this, he doesn't get to have sex.*

3). Everyone here focuses on #2 but ignores #1, which caused #2 to begin with.

I urge everyone here to volunteer at a residential facility or rehab place with mentally ill men. You'll see guys who look relatively normal, but once you get them talking it's clear they're completely out to lunch. They can often scare people away with one sentence.

Since women will dismiss guys over the wrong pair of shoes, you can damn well bet they'll run screaming when a man starts rambling about how he just spoke to George Washington.

Attempting to micro-define the mentally ill as mere "incels" puts the cart before the horse. It does a disservice to everyone involved, misses the point, and plays into the hands of feminists who think "all men are like this underneath!" and get the masses to believe this.

But as I said before, if mere sexual frustration led to killings, 90 percent of male high school sophomores would be mass shooters. If not having sex creates problems, why don't priests and monks go on shooting sprees? Why don't men in wheelchairs plant bombs everywhere?

There's more to this, people. Let's recognize that.

* Even this is a leap. A lot of mentally troubled men go to prostitutes or have sex with homeless women when they hit the streets. This is a lower rung of the social ladder most of us don't see. It's not pleasant. But it's there. I know someone who worked with people like this who joked they had more sex than "normal" people.

But a guy doesn't just become mentally ill in a vacuum, does he? Being confined to a permadrought, sexually-speaking, wreaks havoc on a guy's self-esteem and general state of well-being and, although not primarily the cause in some cases, acts nevertheless like an potent accelerant on a fire. Maybe you're putting the cart before the horse in pushing the rather vague notion of "mental illness" as a sui generis explanation for incel spree shootings, instead of accepting the elephant in the room: that the more young, horny guys there are who are locked out of the sexual market place, the more likely it is that an albeit tiny fraction of them will decide to externalize their frustration by hitting up a public location full of women. By arguing, "Why doesn't every incel Tom, Dick and Harry go on a shooting spree when their dry spell becomes too much to handle ... ?", as a way to look at this phenomenon, misses the point. The response should be the same as regards the recent Islamic invaders of the West: Not every one of them is going take out a bunch of shoppers at the Christmas Market, but every additional migrant duly increases the chances that this will happen. The same logic applies to incels: Not every incel shoots up the local mall, it is true, but every guy who shoots up the mall these days seems to be an incel. That such shootings are becoming increasingly frequent is thus largely a function of the numbers of sexually disenfranchised men shut out of the market having increased significantly in recent years.

Did you read my post?

His family commented on his "life of struggles and pain." That implies that from the get-go he had issues.

A LIFE of struggles means just that. It doesn't mean: "He was popular in high school, but once he hit his twenties and his girlfriend left him and he became an incel and went nuts!!"

I think at this point the manosphere is as guilty as feminism for producing a narrative that's being utilized to explain too many things. They have "patriarchy;" we have "incels." Among other things. They're nice theories. But that's all they are.

One more thing: You mention "the rather vague notion of "mental illness." This is a misnomer.

Mental illness is not vague. Just as you can see lung cancer on an MRI, you can see the haywire brain patterns of schizophrenics (and other mentally ill) patients on a device called an fMRI.

fMRI stands for "Functional magnetic resonance imaging." It shows how the brain responds to stimuli in real time. Schizophrenics and bipolar people have wildly different brain patterns than the average person. So do clinically depressed people. (Here is one of many links to studies on this.)

This is actual scientific proof that mental illness is an out-and-out disease, not some quack psychologist's diagnosis.

I will grant you there is some grey area --- like when it comes to ADHD and other trendy, subjective diagnoses. But that's not what we're talking about here.

If people in the manosphere are now going to dismiss actual hard science about mental illness in favor of made-up "theories," it's time we all call it a day. It's over, folks. We've now officially become the feminists we hate.

Am I the only one who studies up on this stuff?

Post: #44

It's not only being deprived of sex.

It's being deprived of clean air, natural living, a warm embrace by family, a purpose in life, communal living, good friends, a friendly platonic smile or word from a pretty girl, feeling pride and accomplishment in seeing your younger nieces and nephews grow up.

It's the totality of isolation from everything that makes a natural fulfilling life.

It's true what DOBA says about mental illness. It is horrible to witness, but it does not appear completely without cause in most cases:

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2012...izophrenia

Quote:Children who experience severe forms of abuse are around three times as likely to develop schizophrenia and related psychoses in later life compared with children who do not experience such abuse, according to a study that has brought together psychiatric data from almost 80,000 people.

The results add to a growing body of evidence that childhood maltreatment or abuse can raise the risk of developing mental illnesses in adulthood, including depression, personality disorders and anxiety.

Quote:"People who had severe and multiple traumas in their lives, in some of their studies they'd go up to an odds ratio of 50 times greater risk of psychosis [in later life]," said Bentall. "There is nothing in genetics which looks as strong as this in terms of effects and it's consistent across the different studies, so it's a highly robust effect."

People don't just go nuts over some chemical maladjustment in their brain.

Abuse: emotional, physical, sexual, causes mental illness.

This modern invention of the "biological explanation" of mental illness unfortunately coincides perfectly with the boomer generation failing to provide support and safety for their children.

We can pretend mental illness is just "some medical imbalance" or we can recognize the neglect, mistreatment and abuse behind a lot of it.

It's definitely much easier for a doctor to just prescribe meds than ask the parents "were you good parents to your child" or to ask schools if they stopped vicious bullying or to tell vain and superficial teenagers to wear school uniforms and say a prayer every day.

Post: #45

(07-23-2018 05:10 PM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  How it plays out on the forum and the manosphere:
1). A mentally ill man has no friends or girlfriends because he's mentally ill.
2). Because of this, he doesn't get to have sex.*
3). Everyone here focuses on #2 but ignores #1, which caused #2 to begin with.
I urge everyone here to volunteer at a residential facility or rehab place with mentally ill men. You'll see guys who look relatively normal, but once you get them talking it's clear they're completely out to lunch. They can often scare people away with one sentence.

This is a hard point to address because in many cases you are correct. Social skills indicate good brain function... and that's one of the reasons women find them so attractive.

However, we have in the last 40 years seen a huge rise of men and boys with very high IQ, but low social skills. For many of them, the social skills develop slowly over time, so that by age 30 or so they can function somewhat normally. These kids seem to compile the vast majority of shooters. Do you think mentally ill people are a new phenomenon? I promise they are not! However, school shootings pretty much didn't happen before 1999.

I also believe that it isn't just the sexual rejection that drives these kids nuts. It's often the bullying and social ostricism that combines to make them violently suicidal.

This is just my personal belief based on what I have experienced and the data I've seen. I could be wrong, but to my opinion the empirical data lends itself to this conclusion.

Post: #46

One of the things alluded to was that he has psychosis. Ive lived with a person with that and to say they are mentally ill is understating it. They literally make up their own stories as to what happens in their lives and believe them. It also was caused by drug use in one other individual I know. (cocaine in that case) This guy was probably totally out of touch with reality. This has nothing to do with being a horny incel.

Post: #47

(07-23-2018 06:17 PM)nomadbrah Wrote:  It's not only being deprived of sex.

It's being deprived of clean air, natural living, a warm embrace by family, a purpose in life, communal living, good friends, a friendly platonic smile or word from a pretty girl, feeling pride and accomplishment in seeing your younger nieces and nephews grow up.

It's the totality of isolation from everything that makes a natural fulfilling life.

It's true what DOBA says about mental illness. It is horrible to witness, but it does not appear completely without cause in most cases:

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2012...izophrenia

Quote:Children who experience severe forms of abuse are around three times as likely to develop schizophrenia and related psychoses in later life compared with children who do not experience such abuse, according to a study that has brought together psychiatric data from almost 80,000 people.

The results add to a growing body of evidence that childhood maltreatment or abuse can raise the risk of developing mental illnesses in adulthood, including depression, personality disorders and anxiety.

Quote:"People who had severe and multiple traumas in their lives, in some of their studies they'd go up to an odds ratio of 50 times greater risk of psychosis [in later life]," said Bentall. "There is nothing in genetics which looks as strong as this in terms of effects and it's consistent across the different studies, so it's a highly robust effect."

People don't just go nuts over some chemical maladjustment in their brain.

Abuse: emotional, physical, sexual, causes mental illness.

This modern invention of the "biological explanation" of mental illness unfortunately coincides perfectly with the boomer generation failing to provide support and safety for their children.

We can pretend mental illness is just "some medical imbalance" or we can recognize the neglect, mistreatment and abuse behind a lot of it.

It's definitely much easier for a doctor to just prescribe meds than ask the parents "were you good parents to your child" or to ask schools if they stopped vicious bullying or to tell vain and superficial teenagers to wear school uniforms and say a prayer every day.

Excellent post Nomad, very solid insight there.

Post: #48

(07-23-2018 12:58 PM)Johnnyvee Wrote:  What happened to the mass shooting lounge? I mean, I think mass shootings are horrible, but as long as we`re gonna discuss them...might as well do it in a comfortable lounge environment.

I suspect that most people assumed that was for the USA only. I certainly did.

I know, we can be very insular and unthinking of the rest of the world.

Maybe we should have a separate international mass shooting thread, the same way CNN has an international channel.

Post: #49

(07-23-2018 05:56 PM)kosko Wrote:  

(07-23-2018 05:14 PM)Johnnyvee Wrote:  

(07-23-2018 05:01 PM)[email protected] Wrote:  



https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/globalne...allon/amp/

A group of politically active young liberal women! Sounds like the shooter knew who they where to me.

Almost every young girl in Toronto fits this discription...

Every Toronto girl in University would be classified as such, each one.

Worth noting that the video thumbnail shot appears to be a myspace angle.

Post: #50

It looks like this guy was a muslim but also a typical Toronto-Occupied-Ontario Incel.

My question is:

What's this guys ethnic/racial background? So he had a history of mental illness. Did his family tree have a history of first cousin marriage? The two have a high correlation.

No, not all muslims inbreed, but IIRC somewhere between 1/4 and 1/2 do and it seems to not be equally spread across the muslim world, but I can only get that from anecdotal information.