Post: #101

Aurini: I'm not here to bash on Protestants, but I was thinking more about how an Old Lebanese Woman described her youthful persecution by 'The Americans arming The Muslims' to me the other day, and was wondering more about the links between how Jewish Interests seem to influence the radical elements of both groups.

I thought you might find this interesting.

Quote:Islam and Protestantism have in common that they are both based on a direct analysis of the scriptures (the Bible for Protestantism and the Quran for Islam). This can be contrasted to Catholicism in which knowledge is analysed, formalized and distributed by the existing structure of the Church. Islam and Protestantism are thus both based on "a rhetorical commitment to a universal mission", when Catholicism is based on an international structure. This leads to possibilities of fundamentalism, based on the popular reinterpretation of scriptures by radical elements. The term "fundamentalism" was first used in America in the 1920, to describe "the consciously anti-modernist wing of Protestantism".

Islamic and Protestant fundamentalism also tend to be very normative of individuals' behaviours: "Religious fundamentalism in Protestantism and Islam is very concerned with norms surrounding gender, sexuality, and family", although Protestant fundamentalism tends to focus on individual behaviour, whereas Islamic fundamentalism tends to develop laws for the community.

The most notable trend of Islamic fundamentalism, Salafism, is based upon a literal reading of the Qur'an and Sunnah without relying on the interpretations of Islamic jurists or Imams, rejecting the need for Taqlid. Fundamentalist Protestantism is similar, in that the 'traditions of men' and the Church Fathers are rejected in favor of a literalist interpretation of the Bible, which is seen as inerrant. Islamic Fundamentalists and Protestant Fundamentalists often reject contextual interpretation. Another similarity with Protestantism and Salafism is criticism of saint veneration, and emphasis on praying to God alone.

Protestant Desecration:


Muslim Desecration:


As I said earlier, there's so much Heretical Doctrine that make no logical sense to me. Here's an excerpt from the Rheims I read earlier today, Luke 8:13, in the middle of the parable of the Sower of Seeds.

Quote:For they upon the rock; such as when they hear with joy receive the word: and these have no roots: because for a time they believe, and in time of tentation they revolt.

The margin note:

Quote:Against the Heretics that say faith once had can not be lost, and that he which have not faith, never had.

Read 8:14, and then try to understand the doublethink required by so many Americans preaching 'Prosperity' Gospels.

Eureka! I get it now. The Schism doomed the countries where it really took root. England, breaking away from Rome in the name of allowing the King to commit adultery also started outward expansion and the creation of an empire at the same time. With massive social divisions, it becomes a pompous and prideful nation, the fruits of which have now doomed its citizens - rapidly being replaced - the Anglican Church - with a mass falling away of parishioners, the rapid conversion to mosques - and even, now, its Monarchy.

Luke 4:5-7:

Quote:And the Devil brought [Jesus] into a high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the whole world in a moment of time. And he said to him, To thee I will give this whole power, and the glory of them: for to me they are delivered, and to whom I will, I do give them. Thou therefore if thou wilt adore before me, they shall all be thine.

Jesus had the sense to refuse. England didn't.

Neither did Germany: forever a nexus of European Conflict, where the worst evils (Nazism, Martin Luther, Marx and Engels, The Frankfurt School, The Concept of Gender, and the Muslim Invasion) consistently arise. Who was the Saint who had a vision of Mary in the middle ages who pointed to two places on a map as being where the evil that destroys the world will originate? Germany and Russia.

America is founded by the Puritans who sought the Reformed Church was still 'Too Catholic'. It becomes a beacon of Success, Prosperity and Comfort, built on the exploitation of other cultures and destruction of other countries, and the nation becomes flooded by, then divided with those who think they deserve the prosperity and comfort that belongs to others against those who fear losing theirs if they're forced to share.

It's interesting. They're not prepared to forsake the material and temporal for Christ, which is why they're so often charged by the Left with being Hypocrites, particularly as Jesus teaches Poverty of Spirit. I fully-expect the final persecution of the Roman Catholic Church to come from there: the Zionists, united with the Jews.

That reminds me: I explained the Passion to Bill a couple of days ago, but I'll throw it into the Sigma Thread.

Post: #102

It's the Solemnity of the Sacred Heart of Jesus today. With this morning's Missal readings, I was really stumped with the concept of 'Prefinitio'. The explanation given made me feel like there was more to it, with a margin reference to the 'Eternal Praefinitio'.

I started trying to research the word, without much enlightenment, at least via Duckduckgo, and, well, Google is Spiritually-Corrupt. Suddenly, I was told that I really needed a Physical Dictionary.

With a few seconds, I was directed to J.M. Harden's Dictionary of the Vulgate New Testament from 1921, which can be found online here:

https://archive.org/details/dictionaryofvulg00hard

For anyone reading the 'old-timey' versions of the Bible, and you stumble upon Latin Phrases, this will make your study much easier.

You're going to have to increasingly go backwards to find the true definition of words: it's painful to see over the least few years how both Merriam-Webster and Oxford Dictionaries have been converged by the Adversaries. Webster's pages are full of that cringey Shitlib humour-that-isn't-humourous, and Oxford's main page is obvious United Nations and Vatican II-style Cult of Man Worship:

https://www.oxforddictionaries.com/

This stuff was being sold everywhere through my childhood in the 1970's, to such a ridiculous degree it struck me as weird, even as a child, because I saw how much friction existed between people of the same culture and language in the same classroom. Since division into nations and languages was part of the Natural Law, I was thinking more on what increasingly-strikes me as a cross-cultural-brainwashing project.

Post: #103

I tracked down Ludwig Ott's 'Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma', from the early 20th Century. I'm reading a 50's English Translation. It's like the Catechism on Steroids.

At first it was dry reading, to a hilarious degree, then suddenly, I completely clicked into the rhythms of it, and I'm genuinely-enjoying it, because Ott has no time for anyone's crap. It's curt and to the point in a masculine manner. Enough to the degree I'm going to spend the money on a physical copy, (and it's a pricey work).

A sample extract. Note my bolding:

Quote:2. Atheism The systems of agnosticism, scepticism, and Kantian criticism deny the certain knowability and the demonstrability of the existence of God, but can be associated with the belief in a Divine Being. They are based on the principle; We do not know and we shall not know (Ignoramus et Ignorabimus).

Negative atheism is inculpable ignorance regarding the existence of God. Positive atheism (materialism, pantheism) directly denies the existence of a supramundane, personal Divine Being. It was condemned by the Vatican Council. D 1801-1803.

As far as the possibility of atheism is concerned, it cannot be denied that there are atheistic doctrinal systems (materialism, pantheism) and practical atheists, that is, people who live as if there were no God. The possibility, that there are also subjectively convinced theoretical atheists, is founded in the spiritual and moral weakness of man, and on the fact that the proofs of God are not immediately, but only mediately evident. But as the knowledge of God can easily be gained from the contemplation of nature and the life of the soul, it will not be possible permanently to adhere to an honest and positive conviction of the nonexistence of God. An inculpable and invincible ignorance regarding the existence of God is not possible for a long time in a normal, grown-up person, in view of the facility of the natural knowledge of God attested in Holy Writ and in Tradition. Cf. Rom. 1,.20; ita ut sint inexcusabiles.

Fedoras are either Spiritual Autists, or are incapable of honest contemplation, or have Infantile Minds, or, all of the above.



I've suspect I'm going to quote Ignoramus et Ignorabimus to my Gamma Stepfather. I'll ask for forgiveness later.

Post: #104

I've just ordered a pretty cheap used copy of this:

Quote:The "Eight-Translation New Testament" allows you to read Eight translations side-by-side on each spread: "The Living Bible" King James Version "Phillips' Modern English" Revised Standard Version Today's English Version New International Version "The Jerusalem Bible" "The New English Bible"

Should be a very handy reference that saves me a lot of the swapping between books, tabs, new tabs, google searches etc that I've done since this thread started. Now that I know just how different these translations can be, I think it'll be interesting to see them side by side.

(The cover shot doesn't make it clear, but I assume the head of the big rainbow cock and balls is on the back cover.)

Post: #105

^This book turned up last night. I've only had a chance to have a bit of a quick look through it but I think it's going to serve me as a very handy reference for many years.

AB, You've expressed that your time posting here may be ending and I want to point out just how valuable your posts can be, even ones as quick and seemingly insignificant as those in this thread.

Your posts here have showed just how distorted/corrupted the Holy Bible has become.

I might not be on the right track yet, but I am aware. I know to question every paragraph, and I am never going to forget that's how it works. I've seen it.

But how long would that have taken me to figure out on my own? I'd have probably given up, thrown Christ out with a shitty bible translation.

If not for just one of your thousands of posts.

I'll never give up now.

Not that I'll be fanatical about it, but I'll keep looking for the rest of my life.

What price do you put on that?

Talk about contributing value to the forum.

Post: #106

^ Tell him, Filip

(-:

Post: #107

(06-13-2018 02:23 AM)Tex Cruise Wrote:  I've just ordered a pretty cheap used copy of this:

Guys, would you really trust a Bible with a giant pinkish rainbow pair of testicles on it's cover?

My intuitions says to stay clear of it.

Post: #108

(06-20-2018 08:14 PM)Kid Twist Wrote:  ^ Tell him, Filip

(-:

If somebody has said to me five years ago that an internet forum I found while trying to get better with women would play a significant part in bringing me back to Christianity I would have laughed in his face. Indeed, how can you put a price on that?

Post: #109

(06-21-2018 04:36 PM)FilipSRB Wrote:  

(06-20-2018 08:14 PM)Kid Twist Wrote:  ^ Tell him, Filip

(-:

If somebody has said to me five years ago that an internet forum I found while trying to get better with women would play a significant part in bringing me back to Christianity I would have laughed in his face. Indeed, how can you put a price on that?

The average age and maturity of members in this forum just got up, that's whats happened.

You will be even more amused by the shape of this place when the average age here hits 60+ and almost nobody actively chases girls any more. What would a bunch of old former players talk about? Will our methods and beliefs work with the next generation of pussy hunters in the ever changing world after 3 decades? If this forum survives that long it would be interesting to see.

Christianity is still a false form of spirituality trough. The Church is a trap for those who want to seek God. It pretends to give answers with actually providing just a few excuses and half-truths. God lives in nature and fresh air and pagan spirituality is more red pill and more truthful.

You think that you have found God, but what probably happened is that you just got older and more mellow. Church is the spiritual equivalent of a retirement home where senile old people waste their money playing bingo as cruel and uncaring personnel change their diapers daily while treating them as prisoners. If you want to age gracefully, be in good shape and remain independent at old age - don't let yourself be contained by some collection of loosely related scripture and stagnant air of church.

Post: #110

Satan gives a rep point to Mage for his role in FilipSRB's spiritual journey.

Collect after death.

Post: #111

(06-21-2018 05:57 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  Satan gives a rep point to Mage for his role in FilipSRB's spiritual journey.

Collect after death.

You are a bully and a fearmonger.

Post: #112

(06-22-2018 12:23 AM)Mage Wrote:  

(06-21-2018 05:57 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  Satan gives a rep point to Mage for his role in FilipSRB's spiritual journey.

Collect after death.

You are a bully and a fearmonger.

Post: #113

(06-21-2018 05:05 PM)Mage Wrote:  

(06-21-2018 04:36 PM)FilipSRB Wrote:  

(06-20-2018 08:14 PM)Kid Twist Wrote:  ^ Tell him, Filip

(-:

If somebody has said to me five years ago that an internet forum I found while trying to get better with women would play a significant part in bringing me back to Christianity I would have laughed in his face. Indeed, how can you put a price on that?

The average age and maturity of members in this forum just got up, that's whats happened.

You will be even more amused by the shape of this place when the average age here hits 60+ and almost nobody actively chases girls any more. What would a bunch of old former players talk about? Will our methods and beliefs work with the next generation of pussy hunters in the ever changing world after 3 decades? If this forum survives that long it would be interesting to see.

Christianity is still a false form of spirituality trough. The Church is a trap for those who want to seek God. It pretends to give answers with actually providing just a few excuses and half-truths. God lives in nature and fresh air and pagan spirituality is more red pill and more truthful.

You think that you have found God, but what probably happened is that you just got older and more mellow. Church is the spiritual equivalent of a retirement home where senile old people waste their money playing bingo as cruel and uncaring personnel change their diapers daily while treating them as prisoners. If you want to age gracefully, be in good shape and remain independent at old age - don't let yourself be contained by some collection of loosely related scripture and stagnant air of church.

You never give a basis on which you support any of this.

It's like you haven't figured out that worshiping God in spirit and truth can be done in a fallen world. You don't think the most spiritually advanced realize that there are all sorts of things "in the Church" that are crazy, from generation to generation? What do you think the Pauline letters were for, from the beginning?

Quote:God lives in nature and fresh air and pagan spirituality is more red pill and more truthful.

Paganism was always the same shit. It is dead, ultimately, like all of us.

God created nature. Worshipping the created and not the Creator is the very essence of the problem of humanity.

I would have thought an intelligent person would have found that out by now. Notice that I can behold the beauty of nature and the "fresh air" the same as you but not be beholden by it, or fooled by it, as if it has power in itself. Come on, man.

Post: #114

Remember the Litany of Humility, and the Gospel. Being mocked for the name of Christ means you are being blessed. Don't return evil for evil. Use the Grace Mage has offered us wisely.

I was tempted to let him irritate me, remembered Christ's words on the subject to forgive Mage, went looking for them in the Gospel, noticed a word in Latin in the side column I'd missed before, couldn't find it in the Latin Vulgate Dictionary I had, did a search and...

...grace...

https://isidore.co/calibre/get/pdf/4514/CalibreLibrary

There's the English Spelling retyping of the 1582 Rheims New Testament I've been talking about in this entire thread, available to download, at no cost.

Unless you're really into understanding the History of the Schism and the Reformation, Matthew 1 starts on Page 30. Whilst you mightn't understand Catholic Belief now, if you read the arguments, you'll start understanding why the beliefs exist.

Bless you, Mage, for allowing God to grace those in this thread who were seeking knowledge.

Post: #115

Something I've been reflecting upon quite a bit recently is Christ's response to being ridiculed with the crown of thorns.

And then I compare that to my own response to being unjustly ridiculed.

Post: #116

(06-23-2018 12:49 PM)Aurini Wrote:  Something I've been reflecting upon quite a bit recently is Christ's response to being ridiculed with the crown of thorns.

And then I compare that to my own response to being unjustly ridiculed.

Because the shame of the praetorium has nothing on the rage of Twitter.

Post: #117

(06-23-2018 12:49 PM)Aurini Wrote:  Something I've been reflecting upon quite a bit recently is Christ's response to being ridiculed with the crown of thorns.

And then I compare that to my own response to being unjustly ridiculed.

The Third Sorrowful Mystery. It's His reparation for our sins of pride.

What I love saying the Rosary for the first half of the year now, is that the Mysteries seem fairly-straight forward to begin with, but as my studies grow more intense, and as my prayer life increases, the mysteries only seem to deepen in complexity.

Like yesterday, I truly-started to understand how the Passion is the New Eve - without sin - returning Fruit (her son) to the Tree (the cross), thereby giving back God what is owed him, and crushing the serpent's head. It's Jesus undoing the Fall. I read a book on Sin earlier in the year, but it seemed to need time to really percolate in my head before boiling. Then, suddenly, there it was.

So why Thorns?

Quote:17 And to Adam He said: “Because you have listened to the voice of your wife and have eaten of the tree from which I commanded you not to eat, Cursed is the ground because of you; through toil you will eat of it all the days of your life.

18 Both thorns and thistles it will yield you, and you will eat the plants of the field.

Whilst many sins were committed during the fall, the First Sin was Pride.

Jesus takes the curse of thorns that was given to Adam back onto himself, offering us forgiveness.

It's beautiful in its simplicity.

Post: #118

(05-01-2018 05:09 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

(05-01-2018 07:17 AM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  This is a great example.

In Catholic Tradition, Mary wasn't subject to the law of purification, since she was born free of original sin and remained a Virgin after miraculously-birthing Jesus without pain as 'light passes through glass', but submitted to it regardless to teach humility.

Not sure if you're endorsing this view or not, but it's very clearly a heretical, anti-biblical teaching. The de facto deification of Mary in the Catholic tradition is entirely the teaching of men, not of God and the Bible. Scripture is very clear that all men (and women) inherited a sin nature from Adam - including Mary. Christ himself was the only sinless human. Mary was a normal woman, just like the Apostles were normal men. Both Mary and the Apostles were favored by God and chosen for important tasks, but they were not without sin.

A quick summary of the Mary heresy: https://www.gty.org/library/blog/B130227...ry-worship

A quick exposition of the Catholic position: https://www.catholic.com/tract/immaculat...assumption

If you read both you find that the Catholic position is clearly contra-biblical, and largely relies on the description of Mary being "full of grace" as somehow indicating a sinless physical state from birth (rather than of simply being the obvious description of a woman who was favored by God to bear the Savior of mankind). There is no biblical evidence for Mary being without sin. It's just something they made up and which became tradition.

My intent is not to bash Catholicism, though. There is just as much (if not more) heresy among modern Protestants, most denominations of which are extremely pozzed. We desperately need another Reformation and a return to a focus on the actual teachings of Scripture, which alone are God-breathed and the source of divine revelation. Following the teachings and traditions of men instead of God corrupted the Jews, it corrupted the Catholic Church and it has now corrupted most Protestant denominations as well. We must return to a true understanding of the faith as taught in scripture.

sola scriptura
sola fide
sola gratia
solus Christus
soli deo gloria

Scorpion, generally I agree with many of your posts regarding religion, so I hate to debate you... But, you argue that Mary is deified in Catholicism and I am always astounded as to how Protestants believe this. First off, the last sentence in the Hail Mary is "Holy Mary mother of God pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death amen." If you look closely, you will notice that is says "Pray for us sinners" and not "Help us sinners." If Mary was truly a deity, that would mean she had Godlike powers, which would make the latter a more suitable clincher to the Hail Mary. However, since Mary in and of herself has no power, she must ask God for what we want. Kind of like a mediator between us and God, though, not to the same extent that Christ is a mediator between us and God.

Also, I would argue that Mary as our spiritual mother is definitely biblical. For example, in Jn 19: 26-27, Christ says

"When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son!” 27 Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!” And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home."

I know that this is English and not Greek so the original translation could be differ, but it would make no sense for Christ to tell John that Mary was to be his mother. Obviously, Christ probably would have wanted a man to look after his mother, but, if that was his only desire, he would have simply said, "Look after my mother."

Post: #119

There's copious footnotes in the Douay-Rheims I linked above explaining the importance of Mary.

Since then, I've also read 'This Vale of Tears' by AJ West, 'Mariology' by Rev M.J. Scheeben and 'True Devotion to Mary' by St Louis De Montfort, all of which explain just how key Mary's role was in the Redemption.

During the Presentation of the Child Jesus in the Temple, St Simeon prophecies - which is the inspired word of God - who Jesus is, and Mary then has full knowledge of how her son will be despised, and what her son will undergo during the passion. As I've mentioned before, she was the New Eve returning the Fruit to the Tree of her own free will, which gave her power over Satan's forces.

But also, her willingness to suffer alongside her son in the Passion - her sinless nature making her suffer beyond anything we can feel - is the piercing of her soul with a sword. The Graces she receives from this act is to be able to see the hidden truth within the hearts of men, which means, you can pray devotions to her to ask to be graced with this knowledge.

In the 'do you believe in God?' thread, I wrote how praying the Seven Sorrows devotion suddenly graced me with deep understanding of what the problem over my family was, and I saw all the damage that had been done because of it.

Note that I didn't figure it out. It was delivered as one huge gift of understanding. Properly-armed, I was able to successfully-repair my relationship with my father after decades.

I've been trying to get my Sister to pray the devotion herself, so she similarly-understands, but the problem is she listens to some Idiot Protestant Woman on Youtube who claims to have 'visions', and this has made her mistrust The Blessed Lady, and has given her the stupid idea that our loved ones can come back as 'angels' to watch over us.

I said, "No, Angels are angels. We don't turn into them." As I understand it, in Catholicism, The Church Triumphant is spiritually-fulfilled by The Beatific Vision and closeness to God, but we can pray to them for help and ask them to pray for us, but they don't hang around us on earth, looking after us. That's the Guardian Angel's role, and why he was created. If we want to help, we can pray for those in Purgatory (The Church Suffering), or try to help those currently on earth (The Church Militant).

Now, I had a period of utter peace for about a week after meeting Dad the second time. Something had lost its grip on me. I can see I was a little too overconfident, and, from further reading and listening I can see a complete withdrawal by the demonic can mean they're about to rally their forces for a flanking attack.

The last week has been Hell. I've never been through this kind of Oppression. They're going all out on me, which means I'm being pulled between the state of Saint and Sinner at ridiculous speeds.

From what I've read, they're fighting for their lives, because they're about to lose me, particularly once I started Meditative Prayer last week. I've been graced twice with Infused Contemplation - an absolutely indescribable feeling - then, an hour later, I'm on this site complaining about unimportant things and getting into shitfights.

Frustrated with being in this Disordered State, I prayed on the Seven Sorrows again. This morning, I asked Our Lady to enlighten me where to go to find a Traditional Mass - I had asked at the Diocese, but the women there couldn't help me. Note, they didn't even know what the Brown Scapular was, and there was no religious icongraphy in the lobby, except hundreds of pictures of Cult of Man worship: diversity kittens, aboriginal art etc. The One Cross they did have was an aboriginal painting.

Since I'd been reading the Missal every morning anyway, I figured I might as well just start going to Mass each morning, particularly given what I'm fighting at the moment. Today was the Solemnity of St Peter and St Paul, and a different Priest was there. Now, it's a Carmelite Monastery, so no-one talks before or after mass, but the Priest in his welcome made a reference to his doing the Extraordinary Mass each week (Latin Mass) at a very out of the way chapel in a Convent that I didn't think was open to the public - it doesn't have any online profile, pure hidden knowledge - but I checked up there later today, and, yes, Latin Mass each Sunday, and all are welcome.

Our Lady delivers what I was seeking again, and to such a wretched sinner as myself!

The first time I did the Devotion. I'd asked what was the Generation Spirit over my family, meaning, my Father, Mother, Sister and I, but I was starting to notice patterns going further back, and sensed there was something bigger.

So, two days back, I prayed to know what was the problem that was over my Father and his brothers and sisters. That whole side family was, well, rotten and damaged.

A few hours later, I had a clear flash of a Freemason Ring on my father's finger in my head. I rang my Sister and told her what Our Lady had graced me with. She fought it.

I said, "No, our Grandfather was a Freemason. Given his wealth and position in the community, he would have been high up too."

She argued with me how he'd 'hung around' after he died, like he was 'looking out for us' - personally, I think it's a bad spiritual sign if anyone DOES hang around - and how loving and affectionate he always seemed to be to her.

I said "It doesn't matter what you think or how nice he seemed" - hell, I've known plenty of good-looking and charming despicible human beings - "They offer up their children and their family line to Demons."

She wasn't listening. I just can't seem to break through the Mary Barrier with her.

I'm utterly-sick and full of contempt for what I'm dealing with. I want this thing gone out of our family forever.

I rang the Presbytery yesterday and spoke to a Priest, kind of expecting him to laugh at me. I mentioned the Occult childhood and said Our Lady had informed me there was Freemasonary as well. He didn't laugh: he said we need to examine the whole family history closely, and then named the Spirit for me. I won't say the name, but it's interesting another Member just casually-mentioned Freemasonary in his family yesterday and didn't think it was anything serious.

Note that I've heard him use that Spirit's name in conversation frequently.

So, I've got an appointment tomorrow, but the interesting thing was, I was with my father after all this happened, and we were talking about his brothers and his father, and, I just oh-so-casually asked, "Were any of them Freemasons?"

Dad: "Oh, yeah, [my grandfather] was heavily-involved. My grandmother was always complaining about it."

Now, this year I've noticed there's been a lot of foreshadowing and repeating events. A few months back, I mentioned how some crazy, nosy woman was trying to get her foot in the door with Bill and I, and I said, "You know women: what are they doing in there?"

Dad had gone on and said "She was always saying 'what do they do in there?' Do you know, I still have his apron?"

My face was grinning, like it was all a big joke, and I changed the subject. Inside:



Our Lady of Sorrows was right again.

My entire life suddenly made perfect sense, particularly why I could never get away from people involved in the occult, and I just read one of the curses of worshipping that particular God is the illness I was struck down with in my early 20's, and the other curses also have held true. Including everyone getting Cancer.

Thanks, Grandpa.

I'll see what happens with the Priest. At least I know what I'm fighting now. If anyone wants to pray for me in this battle, I'd appreciate it.

So, considering the Protestants say Our Blessed Lady supposedly doesn't have any power and shouldn't be prayed to, she's three-for-three in two weeks.

Post: #120

I'm going to read this thread properly when I get home from work, so this question may have already been answered, but what is the issue with Freemasonry?

Post: #121

There is absolutely no basis in scripture to elevate Mary beyond the status of the apostles or other early believers. Full stop. She was a normal woman chosen by God for His purposes. She was not sinless. The Bible clearly says that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God - including Mary. We read in Romans chapter 3 that sin entered the world through one man (Adam) and that grace similarly came through one man (Christ). Sin and death spread through humanity through the male line - we are all sons of Adam and bear the mark of his original sin. Everyone with a human father therefore is born into sin. Mary had a human father, therefore Mary had original sin. Only one man did not have a human father and thus was free of that taint - Jesus Christ.

Praying to Mary is fruitless and heretical. Mary has no power to answer prayer, and elevating her to that status is elevating the creation over the creator. All Catholic prayer directed to saints is similarly useless and, quite frankly, blasphemous. Why would you pray to sinful men instead of the God who saved them? John chapter 1 tells us that all things were created by Christ and through Christ, including Mary. She is the creation and should not be honored in place of the creator. Catholics often hem and haw about how they aren't actually worshiping Mary, just praying to her and venerating her and such. But where do you draw the line? Every prayer you direct at Mary instead of Christ/God the Father is a wasted prayer and an insult to the true creator, the living God who along has the power to answer prayer.

We are called Christians, not Marians. We are saved by grace through faith in Christ, not Mary. It was Christ who died on the cross and bore the sins of mankind, not Mary. On what basis then can we find rationale to elevate Mary to quasi-deific status? Pointing to a verse with Jesus instructing a follower to take Mary into his house and look after her is not sufficient grounds, in my opinion. That's reading far more into the text than is actually there. Meanwhile, the New Testament is overflowing with verse after verse emphasizing that salvation comes through Christ alone. He is therefore the proper object of veneration. To elevate anyone or anything alongside Christ is idol worship.

Read the Bible. You don't have to read some obscure fifteenth-century translation, either (apologies to Bosch). God is not hiding out in old books. He is freely available to all who earnestly seek Him out. Christ said knock and the door shall be opened. He didn't say you had to eat a special meal, pray to his mother, give a secret knock and a password and then pick the lock. Just knock on the door (aka read the Word and pray to the living Word - Christ himself). That's it. That is the entire basis of the Christian faith. It is not complicated and the Catholic church does not have a monopoly on salvation. Salvation comes through Christ alone, through faith alone. It is universal and available to everyone, as "God is no respecter of persons" (Acts 10:34).

One of the most important realizations as a Christian is that there is nothing you can do to impress God. Your good works will not save you. Your veneration of saints is meaningless. Your mystical visions are nonsense. This is not about you at all, in fact. It's about Christ and his work. You, as a believer, are the gift of God to Christ - as a body we believers are the bride of Christ. Christ's work of of redemption was the price necessary to reconcile fallen humanity to God and thus to make us suitable for eternal life in the presence of God, as co-heirs with Christ worthy of sharing in his glory (Romans 8:17).

Post: #122

scorpion, the veneration of Mary is justified by tradition not scripture, so you are straw manning a bit here.

I think Catholics would say that their tradition must not contradict the bible, however it is not necessary for it to come directly from the bible as the final arbiter of doctrine on its own.

It was that same tradition that led to the bible in the first place, so this is a false dichotomy too.

Both tradition and scripture inform one another.

What you are doing with scriptural verses is very easy to do with any denomination. You can always find some practice in any church that has an opposing scripture.

I have been to many Protestant services where they do not have the Lord's supper, and the Catholic church does, so, based on the fact that Jesus specifically said to have the Lord's supper in memory of him, does that make these denominations heretical?

I don't think so, but I could easily make that argument look good on the internet.

Also, on a common sense level, do you think that God is so legalistic that he doesn't account for intention?

It is a sign of respect to Jesus that Catholics don't feel bold enough to address him directly and seek only to approach his mother and ask her to mediate for them.

Do you think this is less godly than those boldly approaching Evangelicals who expect Jesus to find them parking spaces and winning lottery tickets?

Or do you think that every denomination, and even believer, has areas of his faith where he has got it dead right, and other areas where he is goofy as the day is long?

You are writing your post like it is obvious that Catholics are madmen and you have seen the simple truth.

You are toeing the Protestant line about Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide, and these can be seen as heretical as well, the first because it doesn't allow people direct access to God through personal revelation and the reading of the great mystics, for example. These things are not worthless and heresies by definition, and a more reasonable stance to take would be that private revelations can be valid as long as they don't contradict the Bible.

As for Sola Fide, the Bible verse this comes from was obviously an exhortation against pride, and not a proclamation that works are worthless.

And again, there are verses in the Bible that you can use to justify works, and verses you can use to justify faith alone, so I don't know how you can speak so finally and definitively about what is an appropriate way for others to find a relationship with their creator and worship him.

Are you really saying that all the beautiful and edifying writing of the great Christian mystics down the ages is worthless babble?

Should I now toss in some verses to show you that I am right and you are being prideful?

I'm not going to, because even though I think you are writing in a cocky way about something that we all should approach with trepidation and respect, I have also seen myself be as certain and and cut and dried about issues that I later found out that I didn't understand, so it would be hypocritical of me to judge you as different from the wonderful and all knowing me. Call it more of a heads up.

You are picking and choosing your verses to back up your personal interpretations and guess what. You are in good company because everyone does that.

I will not deny that there are some pretty goofy ways that people have chosen to worship God, and that extends beyond the Catholics.

Fallible humans, endlessly muddling their way towards a relationship with their God.

No one is exempt, so it would be advisable to be at least somewhat circumspect in your criticism of another person's mode of worship.

I have never heard a Catholic say that it was anything other than Jesus dying on the cross that saved him, and I am well aware of some of the excesses, sins, and weirdnesses of the Catholic church.

None of what you are saying matters if you don't have love for your fellow man though, that is clear, and even an atheist can tell if the person talking to him loves him or not.

I do get, and sympathize with your reaction to this thread, because it is getting pretty Catholicy and pretty esoteric, as if it is assumed that these things are only right and proper, rosaries and that.

These things are annoying, but there is no need to get dismissive about the practices of another denomination unless there is something that you see, and can prove, is completely against the faith. Let them have their missals and rosary beads and old Bibles.

These in no way negate your faith, your path to your faith, so there is no need to tell a whole tradtion that it is in error.

Not a Catholic myself, but was raised in that church, so there is a lot that I still love about it.

One of the greatest advantages the Catholic church as is that it has been around for so long that it has committed every sin and heresy in the book, and all of it is on record, like a huge burial dolmen in the middle of a field that can be seen for miles.

This can't help but make a church, or at least its members, more humble than they would otherwise be.

I look at the younger denominations, so brash and cocky, so sure of their interpretations, and sometimes think, well, your sins are still hidden, still chewing away at your churches like insects in the woodwork.

It is all well and good to criticize an old man who has done a lot of living and made a lot of mistakes.

Let's see how your church does when it gets its big spanking, which it still hasn't gotten yet.

(I am trying not to write spiritual posts so much anymore, so I hope you will excuse me for this indulgence. I am not sure the value, as people seem to believe what they are going to believe and that is that. Still, when I know an answer to something, sometimes I can't help but type it out. It's in me and needs to get out. And on some days, when the sun is shining, I am endlessly hopeful.)

Post: #123

There are several things I respect about Protestantism, but one of the things I cannot understand is how so many willingly omit James 2:14 where James says, "What good is it brothers if someone says that he has faith, but does not have works? Can faith save him." Since it was Martin Luther who removed this book, wouldn't this mean that Christianity was in constant heresy for its first 1500 years of existence?

As far as Marian tradition is concerned, I feel that it is something that has waxed and waned throughout Christendom. At least that's what I can tell from the books I've read on the subject. Some time periods have had a greater devotion to Mary than others, although it is safe to say that the Church has always venerated Mary. Hell, even in 330 Constantine dedicated Constantinople in her honor. However, that being said I've known of a few Catholics who place just as much or more emphasis on Mary than Christ, which is definitely a problem. Also, while I believe in the power and intercession of saints to help us in our lives, I've thought the idea of having a patron saint for literally anything and everything is a bit strange. It seems less a theological aspect and more like a cultural aspect of Catholicism to pray to the patron saint of test taking before an exam, instead of God. I'm just a layman though so these are all just my personal thoughts.

I hope that as a Catholic I myself am not being a heretic here and I think someone like Aurini might have better insights on this topic than me.

Post: #124

(06-30-2018 02:52 AM)Vasily Zaytsev Wrote:  There are several things I respect about Protestantism, but one of the things I cannot understand is how so many willingly omit James 2:14 where James says, "What good is it brothers if someone says that he has faith, but does not have works? Can faith save him." Since it was Martin Luther who removed this book, wouldn't this mean that Christianity was in constant heresy for its first 1500 years of existence?

Why don't you make conclusion then that Protestantism is heresy instead for removing James and other books? What makes you make only one conclusion out of several possible ones? Isn't it an instance of a broader set of scenarios how a blind believers mind works? Picking one explanation for phenomena and sticking with it while other interpretations could be just as valid?

(06-30-2018 02:52 AM)Vasily Zaytsev Wrote:  As far as Marian tradition is concerned, I feel that it is something that has waxed and waned throughout Christendom. At least that's what I can tell from the books I've read on the subject. Some time periods have had greater devotion to Mary than others, although it is safe to say that the Church has always venerated Mary. Hell, even in 330 Constantine dedicated Constantinople in her honor. However, that being said I've always thought that Mexican Catholicism places a bit too much emphasis on Mary. And, while I believe in the power and intercession of saints to help us in our lives, I've thought the idea of having a patron saint for literally anything and everything is a bit strange. It seems less a theological aspect more like a cultural aspect of Catholicism to pray to the patron saint of test taking before an exam, instead of God.

If anything though, this is probably just personal preference. I hope that as a Catholic I myself am not being a heretic and I also think someone like Aurini might have better insight on this topic than me.

In protestant mind-view the world is lonely place. Individuals can only have relationships with God. This translates well in todays post-Christian neomarxist paradigm of destroying all levels of interpersonal relationships - destroying ties of family, ties of nation, ties of male groups, ties of brotherhood, ties of friendship not tainted with their disfigured notion of love as something you must always put your dick in. In the western liberal paradigm a person is only to have relationships with government.

Government is to give the person all money, government is to provide loans, government is to provide jobs, government is to provide food, government is to provide entertainment, government is to provide education, government is to provide safety, government is to provide healthcare, government is to intervene family life, government is to stand above fellow human beings and is the highest authority to snitch to, where to seek marriage and divorce, daddy government will even give you children without a partner if freeze your eggs.

All this evolves from protestant extremely-monotheistic viewpoint that you must pray to God and have no relationships with saints and other believers. Once you remove God you just got government put in there. All monotheistic faiths are like that - Islam is the same - under guise of Monotheism it is actually all about creating a super Big Sharia Government to control all aspects of individuals life.


Catholics are a bit more Pagan and a bit less monotheistic in this sense that they value relationships with all members of Church. The Catholic Church is a community of believers who constitute the sacred body of Christ. Catholics value their saints because for them heaven is not a lonely place. Catholics can already build relationships with those of their community who are already there in heaven as well as with those who are here on Earth. This relationship is love and this Love is where God manifests. This Love is the works where God manifests.

This is why Catholics have the biggest and strongest families in Western Christianity and why Catholics have always been less pro big government and more pro family mafia types. This is why Catholics will maintain male only clergy - because they have a place and a role for each individual in the Church, the Body of Christ. There is roles for priests and roles for lays, roles for men and roles for women, roles for adults and roles for children.

Protestants don't believe in roles because they only believe in persons relationship with God and not in relationships between people. Therefore protestants will accept female clergy, therefore they do not batiste children, therefore they compromise on contraception and have smaller families, therefore they do not believe in works and believe they can be saved by passive faith.

God is Love between people. Therefore God created people - for his Love to have a place and reason to manifest. The still life needs no God. We do. We are animated by God's love. Therefore we must act with love and have relationships with all creation - each other and nature as well. All that God created he created so that in the interconnections of the things created Love, that is Himself, could manifest.

Post: #125

I'm tapping out.

Before I leave, some other recommendations:

If you ever find yourself called to the higher forms of Mental Prayer and start leading an Interior Life, which the Nuns explained to me to celebrate as a blessing because it can't be forced or willed, and only happens by Grace, and most are never called to it. They saw me perfectly in the zone, oblivious to all the chatter in the church around me, as mass ended, and they explained Infused Contemplation to me.

That's not saying one is better or holier for doing this. Our place is to be as holy as we should be, not as holy as we wish to be, and not to resent others who appear holier than we are. We all have our assigned places, and I recognise I was guided by Grace to this, so I have to take the responsibility seriously.

It's a strange experience. Not easy to describe. Just: connecting with the divine, like you're snatched up by joy. Sometimes my eyes flow with tears, but it's not from sadness. I'm not a guy who ever cries.

It's odd. When I read 'The Spiritual Combat' by Scupoli less than a month back, I was horrified by the idea that I could do nothing good without God's grace, and was uncomfortable and frightened with the idea of spending eternity praising God. I mean, wouldn't you get bored? Wouldn't you still want to do other things?

Now, doing the meditations regularly, I get it. Yes, I could spend eternity praising God. If you experience even the small glimpse of that beatific connection possible through meditative prayer, then you understand it's all you'll ever need to be happy. What must the real thing be like?

Three works connected to this:

"The Interior Castle" by St Theresa of Avila lays out the Interior Journey of the Soul towards God. It'd be on archive.org.

'Divine Intimacy' by Father Gabriel of St Mary Magdalen is meditations for each day of the Tridentine Liturgical Calendar. It's an absolutely beautiful work that I believe could also be studied in a non-meditative fashion for the depth it goes into. Unfortunately, it's a pricey work. I think it cost me $125, and, amusingly, I thought it was a book of explanations of daily liturgy, not a book of meditations, and turned up just after I'd watched a Youtube Talk on Meditative Prayer. You get exactly what you need at the moment you need it.

'The Ways of Mental Prayer' by Vital Lehodey is a detailed book on the subject, and is easily-readable, 'how to' guide for when / if you are called. It's fascinating to read, to the extent that I'd rather be reading it than posting on here now.

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If you're also cursed with the Vice of Pride the way I am, there's a great little book to practice the opposite Virtue: "Humility of Heart" by Father Cajetan Mary da Bergamo. It's a series of short meditations on Humility. Since all sin is thought to flow from Pride, it's useful for all Christians.

As such, I can recognise the danger of writing publicly as opening the door to being Prideful. I need to talk much, much less.

I can also recommended any of Father Chad Ripperger's books, or anything by Saint John of the Cross.