Post: #1

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/...-many-men/


Nothing like this has happened in human history. A combination of cultural preferences, government decree and modern medical technology in the world’s two largest countries has created a gender imbalance on a continental scale. Men outnumber women by 70 million in China and India.

The consequences of having too many men, now coming of age, are far-reaching: Beyond an epidemic of loneliness, the imbalance distorts labor markets, drives up savings rates in China and drives down consumption, artificially inflates certain property values, and parallels increases in violent crime, trafficking or prostitution in a growing number of locations.

...

Out of China’s population of 1.4 billion, there are nearly 34 million more males than females — the equivalent of almost the entire population of California, or Poland, who will never find wives and only rarely have sex. China’s official one-child policy, in effect from 1979 to 2015, was a huge factor in creating this imbalance, as millions of couples were determined that their child should be a son.

India, a country that has a deeply held preference for sons and male heirs, has an excess of 37 million males, according to its most recent census. The number of newborn female babies compared with males has continued to plummet, even as the country grows more developed and prosperous. The imbalance creates a surplus of bachelors and exacerbates human trafficking, both for brides and, possibly, prostitution. Officials attribute this to the advent of sex-selective technology in the last 30 years, which is now banned but still in widespread practice.

In the two countries, 50 million excess males are under age 20.

Post: #2

So, don’t bang China or India. Got it.

Post: #3

(04-20-2018 07:57 AM)YoungBlade Wrote:  So, don’t bang China or India. Got it.

Correction: Do bang China.

Post: #4

Both India and China have 2 of the highest murder rates of their baby daughters whether in the womb or out of it. India especially with the dowry system where the bride's father have to pay the groom's family to marry off his daughters. Many poor Indians unable to afford dowry's kill their baby daughters and its been a tradition till today.

In fact there are women killed for dowry every day in India. When the bride's family fails to provide the money and lavish gifts the grooms family think they are entitled to.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne...India.html


This skews the sex ratio heavily in favor of males and consigns many men to involuntary celibacy.


A better system is the bride price system in my opinion which is the reverse of the dowry paid by the groom to the brides father and allowing the adoption of adult sons to carry on the family name as they do in Japan who is married to the daughter. Making daughters more of value to be kept alive.

Post: #5

(04-20-2018 08:12 AM)Suits Wrote:  

(04-20-2018 07:57 AM)YoungBlade Wrote:  So, don’t bang China or India. Got it.

Correction: Do bang China.

I’m sorry, but I don’t think I could handle your sloppy seconds.

Post: #6

(04-20-2018 08:54 AM)YoungBlade Wrote:  

(04-20-2018 08:12 AM)Suits Wrote:  

(04-20-2018 07:57 AM)YoungBlade Wrote:  So, don’t bang China or India. Got it.

Correction: Do bang China.

I’m sorry, but I don’t think I could handle your sloppy seconds.

I would't worry too much. We all know there aren't any Suits Sloppy Seconds around anywhere.

Post: #7

This goes to show ya...top down government controls don't work. Girls have been slaughtered at birth in the millions, boys can't find girls in adulthood.

Better yet, unintended consequences (or as economists say, opportunity cost) are never good and are always unintended. When governments do things, the unintended consequences always have a much larger magnitude than when individuals or groups do things.

Regardless, this is not good for the earf.

Post: #8

(04-20-2018 09:13 AM)heavy Wrote:  This goes to show ya...top down government controls don't work. Girls have been slaughtered at birth in the millions, boys can't find girls in adulthood.

That will be the ultimate workforce led by the smell of pussy alone!
I'm pretty sure you can imagine that:

Factory workers sweating, a engineered pussy perfume keep being sprayed every hour and on every walls propaganda posters :

"Women will only mate with the employee of the year!"



Shit that's even the promised land for some remorseless PUA :
"I can help you find your soulmate... but it'll need great sacrifices"

Post: #9

Yes but the death rates for men in construction, working at height, industry and overall is way higher than women in those countries so it balances out a bit better.

I would hazard a guess the deaths of every EU nation for men in the above work categories in one year happens in China/India in a week.

Post: #10

I suspect this is much more of a problem in India than China. The desire for couples in China to have only a boy has faded in recent years, with more couples wanting to have girls. This follows the same pattern in South Korea, where the emphasis to have more boys in the 80's declined and reversed itself by the oughts.

The situation in India is far more severe as not only is infanticide more common, but families must pay a dowry to marry off their daughters (talk about a disincentive to have girl children). This phenomenon is mostly limited to northern India (all of the pathologies of Indian culture are more pronounced in the north, which is due to Islamic invasion some centuries ago). This incel phenomenom, coupled with a southern Indian fertility rate LOWER than that of China, ensures that India's birthrate will decline significantly in the near future.

Post: #11

But

(04-20-2018 07:57 AM)YoungBlade Wrote:  So, don’t bang China or India. Got it.

They created their bed, they should have to lie in it. They shouldnt be allowed to immigrate their way out of the problem and create a global sausagefest.
Their parents and governments gave zero fucks about the sexual thirst situation they were setting up for their future male progeny. I'm surprised Indian men haven't revolted, how is government placating the millions of sexless betas?

One thing is certain, sex bots will become a huge growth market in India and China in the 2020s. The demand is certainly there and the technology is starting to catch up.

Post: #12

(04-20-2018 10:16 AM)azulsombra Wrote:  One thing is certain, sex bots will become a huge growth market in India and China in the 2020s. The demand is certainly there and the technology is starting to catch up.

Lots of transgenders as well.

Post: #13

(04-20-2018 09:00 AM)Ethan Hunt Wrote:  

(04-20-2018 08:54 AM)YoungBlade Wrote:  

(04-20-2018 08:12 AM)Suits Wrote:  

(04-20-2018 07:57 AM)YoungBlade Wrote:  So, don’t bang China or India. Got it.

Correction: Do bang China.

I’m sorry, but I don’t think I could handle your sloppy seconds.

I would't worry too much. We all know there aren't any Suits Sloppy Seconds around anywhere.

Tell that to the two forum guys who have had my sloppy seconds.

Post: #14

Indian and Chinese so very on the sexual market place Europe. So they can't emigrate to solve the problem. Well, maybe to Africa but who wants to bang the Kongo girls?

Post: #15

There are some gems here that weren't quoted by OP that show just how much of a catastrophe this will be:

Quote:111-112 Men ages 15-29 for every 100 women in China and India

But when you look at the entire pool of men vying for women:

In China, 280 men ages 15-49 and India, 220 men for every 100 women ages 15-29.

That's a lot of sausage fests, and I'm assuming guys will have to compromise and be willing to date and marry older women. Standards will drop dramatically.

Quote:The gender imbalance could prompt a “crisis of masculinity” as traditional roles are upended and males embrace socially regressive stances to prove their manhood, said Prem Chowdhry, a researcher and social scientist in New Delhi. “People devalue their masculinity. If they remain single, they will be declared not men at all. The basic function of a man in rural society is to have a family and look after that family.”

“In rural areas, men who didn’t get married are really marginalized; even socializing in the village is difficult,” said Therese Hesketh, a professor of global health at University College London. “These guys are depressed.”

This is actually a parallel of what is going on in the West - MGTOW and men feeling lost because feminism has taken away their role as the breadwinner and head of household. In China and India, it's not feminism, it's just that there is literally no one to marry, but the effect is similar.

Quote:Today, 30 years old, he lives in a bare, stuffy dormitory room with five other men in the southern city of Dongguan, bunk beds lining the walls, cigarette butts carpeting the floor.

“I want to find a girlfriend, but I don’t have the money or the opportunity to meet them,” he said. “Girls have very high standards; they want houses and cars. They don’t want to talk to me.”

Li’s problem is not only that he is poor and struggling to save enough money to buy an apartment of his own; it is that in China there are simply too many men. This is a country where marriage confers social status, and where parental pressure to produce grandchildren is intense. Bachelors like Li are dismissively branded as “bare branches” for failing to expand the family tree.

But as any forester knows, bare branches pose a danger, and not just to themselves.

In Dongguan, where the gender ratio is 118 men to 100 women, Li says he has virtually given up hope of finding a girlfriend. He spends his spare time playing games on his phone, or accompanying his co-workers to karaoke or for a foot massage.

“It is just me,” he said. “Life is boring and lonely.”

This guy really needs to learn game. With his free time instead of playing on his phone he should be working out and cold approaching. Or, if anything, he should use his time to study and upgrade his skills to get a better job, or work on learning a foreign language with his phone to hit on foreign women instead of sitting at home and moping. That's the only solution for a guy with a mediocre job.

Quote:Many Chinese men are working harder, taking more dangerous or unpleasant jobs, to get ahead. Parents are also trying to give their sons a leg up financially. “It’s kind of an arms race in the dating and marriage market,” said Shang-Jin Wei, a Columbia University economist.

The high household savings rate, particularly in China, helps explain its huge trade surplus. A man who makes cheap shoes for export does not spend the wages he earns on consumer goods imports. Instead he saves to build a house and attract a bride.
Another unintended result — urban housing prices are rising fast.

Male suitors in China pay a “bride price” to earn their future in-laws’ approval for the engagement. Because of the acute imbalance, it has gone from a few hundred dollars a decade or two ago to nearly $30,000 in some parts of China. Families sock that money away instead of spending it.

Supply and demand in the dating market is ALWAYS at play. This is actually the first time I heard about the connection between the trade surplus and the marriage market and housing market but it makes sense from a macroeconomic perspective.

Quote:The shortage of women in rural China is amplified because women there often “marry up,” seeking husbands with slightly higher educational, financial or social status. That takes women away from villages to the cities in search of those types of men — making it even harder for the men who stay behind.

This sounds like it could be taken straight out of Heartiste or Jordan Peterson - women are always going to hypergamy.

The most interesting part of the article was this: the impact on the dating market in Southeast Asia:

Quote:Tens of thousands of foreign women are flocking to China for marriage, pushed by poverty at home and sucked in by China’s shortage of women. Chinese men surf websites that offer foreign brides, and may wind up paying upwards of $8,000 for marriage tours to find a wife. For the brides, it’s a huge gamble: They are lured with promises of work, and some are effectively trapped and trafficked into marriage.
In their new families, daughters-in-law often occupy the lowest status.

Liu Hua couldn’t find a wife in China. So he decided to buy a foreign one. His sister and mother helped him choose from a selection of Cambodian women who had come to China looking for husbands, eventually picking out a slim girl with a nice smile.

His wife, Lili, is among tens of thousands of foreign women who are flocking here for marriage, pushed by poverty at home and sucked in by China’s dramatic shortage of women.

Leping has become a center for the trade in Cambodian women: in village after village, they are easy to spot, looking after young children and picking them up from school, or just hanging out watching their husbands play mah-jongg.

In Huangling, a village two hours’ drive to the north of Leping, Liu and Lili’s was the first of several transnational marriages.

“Our village has 50 or 60 bachelors and only one or two single women,” said Liu. “For men who are 40 or even older, Cambodian women are like a second chance.”

Liu said he paid deposits ranging from $5,000 to $40,000 to three local families, just for the right to date their daughters, and got only some of the money back when the matches didn’t work out.

Fed up with demanding Chinese families, he eventually decided to pay a broker nearly $15,000 for Lili, who took a Chinese name after moving there.

The two profess to be content, living in a house filled with photos of their wedding and their two young children, a 4-year-old boy, Siyiuan, and his 1-year-old sister Sisi.

With men outnumbering women in China by 34 million, the demand for foreign wives risks simply shifting the problem onto China’s smaller neighbors.

Russian women, some of whom used to look to the West for husbands, are increasingly seeking marriage in China, says Elena Barabantseva at Britain’s University of Manchester, who has been leading an international project on marriage migration into China.

In China, they are the most sought-after brides, prized for their fair skin and European features. They are seen as educated but accessible, less emancipated than Western women. These women are more likely to end up in bigger cities, with richer men.

Commercial marriage tours to Russia as well as Ukraine offer Chinese men the chance to meet 10 or 20 women over the space of a few days for around $5,000, rising to $8,000 if they find a bride.


But a much larger number of women come from Vietnam. Marriage migration across the porous border in southern China began two decades ago and is flourishing, said Caroline Grillot, who has been researching the phenomenon for a decade, most recently with Barabantseva in Manchester.

Vietnamese women are seen as less “demanding” than some Chinese women and more focused on traditional family values. They are also sought after for their fair skin, their big eyes and slim waists, Grillot says. They in turn often prefer Chinese husbands to their own compatriots, not just for their wallets, but because they are seen as hard-working and family-focused.

Today websites like ZhongYueLove.com (China-Viet-Love) offer a selection of Vietnamese women. Some services offer a money-back guarantee that the brides will be virgins, and a free replacement for any who run away within a year.

Others arrive from Burma and Laos, crossing into China’s relatively poor southwestern Yunnan province.

In effect they are replacing local women who have themselves migrated, to find husbands in more prosperous parts of “inner China,” said Shen Hanmei, a professor at Yunnan University in Kunming.

Significant numbers have poured in from North Korea, too, especially after famine struck there in the mid-1990s. Many have suffered horrendous treatment from abusive husbands or were trafficked into prostitution in China, and ended up in labor camps if they tried to return to their home country.

This Chinese sausage fest is going to affect the dating market from Ukraine to Vietnam. That's pretty mind blowing and disturbing as China continues to grow and become more powerful. I'm guessing reports of large groups of Chinese sex and/or marriage tours are going to start filtering in on this forum over the next 5-10 years as wages in China continue to rise.

Has anyone in China now seen an increase in xenophobia towards foreigners dating Chinese women, as poorer men get shut out of the dating market?

There is also a bunch of reporting on harassment in India as well, but I'm not sure if that's a direct result of the sausage fest, probably rather the general culture of harassing females in India.

As one poster mentioned, sex bots, MGTOW, and homosexuality seem like the only solution to this, but can such traditional cultures adjust that quickly to completely redefine a male's role in society in just a decade? I'm skeptical.

If the culture is unable to change then I don't see how we will avoid massive violence as these guys feel shut out from having a normal life.

Post: #16

Many dudes have talked about the possible social and global impact that this phenomenon will have on game but for the rest of the forum that is probably interested in dating and gaming Chinese girls, no your Shanghai, Beijing, Chengdu isn't going to have her beautiful girls disappear overnight and replaced with horny Chinese men. The best girls still work in these cities and with a 1.3 billion population, you don't really need to be afraid of a lack of women.

Post: #17

(04-20-2018 11:13 AM)Zerdame Wrote:  Many dudes have talked about the possible social and global impact that this phenomenon will have on game but for the rest of the forum that is probably interested in dating and gaming Chinese girls, no your Shanghai, Beijing, Chengdu isn't going to have her beautiful girls disappear overnight and replaced with horny Chinese men. The best girls still work in these cities and with a 1.3 billion population, you don't really need to be afraid of a lack of women.

Well, yes the raw numbers will be high, but guys are going to be bidding up the price for women, in terms of how much money or game they will need to snag a 6,7, etc. Also I could imagine that there would be more social pressure for women to marry Chinese men instead of foreigners. For cosmopolitan guys on the forum with their style, game, fitness, and lifestyle in order, they will be fine, but at each level of attractiveness girls will demand more than before.

Post: #18

China is having a baby boom right now. Women are pregnant all over the place. Explosion might be an even better word to describe it. People are even having 3 kids now, especially middle-upper class people.

The Chinese guys in their teens and around 20 won't have much problems getting a nice wife in their 30s or early 40s. Since there is not a social shaming issue of having a young wife in China, like America, having a 10 or more year age gap will work out in their favor. By then they will have alot more money saved up and likely other assets.

As for guys almost 30 and over 30 right now, they will be feeling the competition squeeze a little bit. For the more rural guys, buying or scouting for brides in Cambodia or Vietnam, like the article pointed out, is a good move. They can get a solid homemaker wife that will work hard and treat them well, if they are kind to them and not escape like that one guy in the article. Let's be real for a moment here. Dudes that have their Vietnamese wives run away on them are likely the same dudes that would be alone without even a Chinese wife if Vietnam did not exist. Some guys are just flat out nasty and mean. Chinese women have limits too. Some gamble and drink so much they cannot even handle their business. There is a reason China cracks down on gambling in the smaller areas sending government people to turn over tables.

Once North Korea comes online and that DMZ is taken down, watch the fuck out. The bride finding agencies that once caught some heat for matchmaking North Korea women with men near the China border, are gonna start getting more women and will be sending them further South into China.

Maybe Suits should purchase one and let us know how good that NK flag was.

Post: #19

(04-20-2018 01:20 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  China is having a baby boom right now. Women are pregnant all over the place. Explosion might be an even better word to describe it. People are even having 3 kids now, especially middle-upper class people.

The Chinese guys in their teens and around 20 won't have much problems getting a nice wife in their 30s or early 40s. Since there is not a social shaming issue of having a young wife in China, like America, having a 10 or more year age gap will work out in their favor. By then they will have alot more money saved up and likely other assets.

As for guys almost 30 and over 30 right now, they will be feeling the competition squeeze a little bit. For the more rural guys, buying or scouting for brides in Cambodia or Vietnam, like the article pointed out, is a good move. They can get a solid homemaker wife that will work hard and treat them well, if they are kind to them and not escape like that one guy in the article. Let's be real for a moment here. Dudes that have their Vietnamese wives run away on them are likely the same dudes that would be alone without even a Chinese wife if Vietnam did not exist. Some guys are just flat out nasty and mean. Chinese women have limits too. Some gamble and drink so much they cannot even handle their business. There is a reason China cracks down on gambling in the smaller areas sending government people to turn over tables.

Once North Korea comes online and that DMZ is taken down, watch the fuck out. The bride finding agencies that once caught some heat for matchmaking North Korea women with men near the China border, are gonna start getting more women and will be sending them further South into China.

Maybe Suits should purchase one and let us know how good that NK flag was.

Good post. I was wondering what things were actually like on the ground. You read these articles about a huge female shortage all the time, but foreigners seem to do okay in China if they're willing to put the work in, which would seem to argue against the demographic doom scenario.

Post: #20

(04-20-2018 01:11 PM)Arado Wrote:  

(04-20-2018 11:13 AM)Zerdame Wrote:  Many dudes have talked about the possible social and global impact that this phenomenon will have on game but for the rest of the forum that is probably interested in dating and gaming Chinese girls, no your Shanghai, Beijing, Chengdu isn't going to have her beautiful girls disappear overnight and replaced with horny Chinese men. The best girls still work in these cities and with a 1.3 billion population, you don't really need to be afraid of a lack of women.

Well, yes the raw numbers will be high, but guys are going to be bidding up the price for women, in terms of how much money or game they will need to snag a 6,7, etc. Also I could imagine that there would be more social pressure for women to marry Chinese men instead of foreigners. For cosmopolitan guys on the forum with their style, game, fitness, and lifestyle in order, they will be fine, but at each level of attractiveness girls will demand more than before.

I don't know if or how much social pressure there will be on women to not date foreigners, but there will always be women that want a laowai no matter what. I cannot begin to tell you how much attention I get for my mixed blood kids from young girls. They love it.

I also noticed as as well that lots of young and poor couples getting together, marriage certificate or not, even keeping an oops pregnancy. When two people are madly in love and can hardly keep off each other, even in public, they could care less about the money. That's another thing. I cannot believe how much hugging, kissing, hair playing, etc. younger Chinese are doing these days in public. It was never like this before. I bet the old folks cannot either, lol. I ain't hating though. I like seeing that. It's good for them and the country as a whole.

Post: #21

(04-20-2018 01:26 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  Good post. I was wondering what things were actually like on the ground. You read these articles about a huge female shortage all the time, but foreigners seem to do okay in China if they're willing to put the work in, which would seem to argue against the demographic doom scenario.

Foreigners are generally doing ok because of the huge SMV gap - any foreigner in China usually is making more than the average Chinese worker (note I say average, which includes factory workers and laborers), and has better social skills, often better looking, exotic, etc.

The people shafted by the situation are like the ones in the article - the poor factory workers and village guys that don't have advanced degrees and social experience. Also, foreigners are still such a small % of the population in China that even if only 5% of Chinese women are open to dating foreigners, that is still a ton of women.

However, I don't think foreigners will have the same appeal as they did 10-15 years ago once Chinese guys start a bidding war for attractive women. Even now, the top tier Chinese women usually stick to their own and most foreigners without deep local (language, cultural, or social) connections end up with the English groupies (who are much better bet than what's available in the West) or girls looking to try a foreigner.

The question though is what will happen once all these poor guys get angry with the raw deal they've been given in life.

And what will happen in the third countries where Chinese guys are swooping in and wifing up the SEA and EE girls that previously could only hope for some old Western guy to marry them.

(04-20-2018 01:27 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  I don't know if or how much social pressure there will be on women to not date foreigners, but there will always be women that want a laowai no matter what. I cannot begin to tell you how much attention I get for my mixed blood kids from young girls. They love it.

For now, seeing mixed race kids isn't that common in China, so obviously it's going to get more attention. If the government keeps strict controls on the amount of foreigners they let in to live in China, then perhaps there won't be too much anti-foreigner sentiment distorting the dating market. Ultimately, everything is a numbers game and supply and demand.

Post: #22

and yet decent looking Chinese women in their early 30s go unloved because they're "too old." millions of men would rather be alone and celibate than shack up with a chick barely over 30. bizarre.

Post: #23

(04-20-2018 10:21 AM)Suits Wrote:  

(04-20-2018 09:00 AM)Ethan Hunt Wrote:  

(04-20-2018 08:54 AM)YoungBlade Wrote:  

(04-20-2018 08:12 AM)Suits Wrote:  

(04-20-2018 07:57 AM)YoungBlade Wrote:  So, don’t bang China or India. Got it.

Correction: Do bang China.

I’m sorry, but I don’t think I could handle your sloppy seconds.

I would't worry too much. We all know there aren't any Suits Sloppy Seconds around anywhere.

Tell that to the two forum guys who have had my sloppy seconds.

I'd say they were well sloppy after you had finished with them.

Post: #24

Don't forget about sluts. They're in every culture, and they want kids at some point too.

Post: #25

It’s the first time I’ve read in an MSM article that women are needed in the workforce to drive down savings rates by means of excess consumption.