Post: #1

As the title suggests, I've been a victim of underemployment in this current market. I've recently graduated from my university with a Master's Degree in Economics, but yet I still have had zero luck getting even an interview (September to April, still nothing).

Luckily, it's given me time to reconsider what I want to do, as I've been bartending the last few months to cover my student debt. My freedom is hampered by this debt, as I need to find a full-time career soon or the payments will catch up to my savings.

I've tried to contribute as much as I can to this forum, and this is the first time I've really asked for help. What should I do differently? I've been applying on places like Indeed and Linkedin, and also even my friends/former coworkers have tried to refer me, yet still I haven't even gotten a single interview.

Any suggestions to even get an interview? I'd honestly rather just have the interview and not get the job than not even hear back at all, it's depressing frankly.

Post: #2

Have you tried using the career services office in your University? What sorts of jobs are you looking at? How about Geography? Do you anything else on your resume apart from your educational experience?

Post: #3

I’m going to be honest, since Economics alone is a useless degree even if it’s a Master’s program. You can take some programming languages courses and try to get a data analyst or data scientist job.

The best option is to work for the Federal Bank or any Government organization but those are tough to break into.

Post: #4

Or yes, think differently. Why don't you try to set up an online business now? This is actually when you got the big chance to create something with all the free time you have. This is the best time for you, don't let it go to waste. If you need help and information on where to start I can give you a few tips.
If you need a bit of extra cash, try Fiverr and get a few extra bucks.

And have you tried to have other people review your CV and/or personal letter and see what you can do to perfect it? Not just friends. Have you turned up on sight and handed your CV over in person?

Btw, I start a new job tomorrow actually in engineering and my interviewer (who is going to be my boss) talked about people with degrees in economics being completely useless compared to engineers and thought they learn fuck all and talked about how engineers usually get less ECTS here in Europe for the same courses. I have heard a few in my field say the same thing, but what do I know?

Post: #5

1) I don't know what country you're in but you should see if your lenders will allow you to apply for some kind of economic hardship deferment or income-based repayment plan while you find full time employment.

2) What kind of job are you looking for?

If you're applying on company websites, most employers use ATS's or Applicant Tracking Systems, that is a computer program that parses applicant's resumes based on geo-location, skills, experience to determine who's getting called by HR. You're not getting called back for interviews because you're resume lacks the keyword density the ATS needs to deem it as relevant.

Good news is ATS's also house available positions.

Here's how to find them:
1) find the name of an ATS, (lever.co, greenhouse.io, taleo.com, icims.com, jobvite.com, workable.com)
2) Go to google type in the follow: site: + (ATS name) + X (X = a variable, such as a specific job title, company name, or location) Example: site: lever.co project manager
3) Go to Tools > Any Time and adjust to the last month or week so you're not getting stuff that's years old and filled already.

To prove this works I just search lever.co for project managers jobs(site:lever.co project manager): https://bit.ly/2Hrj8EI here and 9 out of the 10 first page hits are direct links to the job I wanted.

Or

1) Go to google
2) Type in "allintitle: X Position Available" Without quotations and substitute X for your desired job title.
3) Go to Tools > Any Time and adjust to the last month or week so you're not getting stuff that's years old and filled already.

Also Aer, I'm going to send you a PM later with more info on this topic.

Post: #6

Can you ask your friends who referred you to their companies to try to find out why you weren't even called for interview? Its possible there may be some glaring problem with your CV/résumé. If you're getting an internal referral into a role you should at least be getting called for interview, if the job is appropriate for your qualifications/experience.

As a sidebar, you're probably going to need to start lying on your CV to cover that gap soon. Once its 6 months+ it becomes a problem with a lot of corporate HR departments. I'd recommend preparing an excuse in advance - you went traveling for 6 months, or you were taking care of a sick family member, or you were injured etc. And possibly mentioning it in your cover letter. Just make sure its something you're comfortable with that you can talk about in detail if you're asked about in an interview.

Post: #7

Did you do any internships?

Did you have a fulltime job before the Masters? How renowned is the school? You need to provide a lot more info unless you want generic advice.

But if you have alot of freetime I would study for a CFA while you job search.

Post: #8

^not a bad idea regarding the CFA as a potentially relevant credential, but won't make a difference for OP until mid January at least. He won't be able to take level one until December and results aren't in for a month and a half.

I've thought about doing the CFA before and have talked to people who have the certificate. Employers frown on seeing "CFA I Candidate" on a resume, as it basically says that you haven't done shit yet. Once you pass levels, the conversation changes and it becomes a pro, especially if you're young.

Can be a decent play, but if he also doesn't have work experience, it just bolsters his credentials without giving him actual work experience.

So networking and job searching should come first, CFA second.

I agree with zatara that if he's not even getting recruiter screener calls, his resume likely needs editing. The gauntlet is have good resume, get picked up by recruiter based on keywords, talk to the recruiter, sound capable, get passed to the hiring manager, get selected for interviews, impress, pass interview rounds, get offer. Referrals fast track the process.

OP also hasn't mentioned his geographic area, prestige of his degree, and desired positions.

I'd consider hitting up some small-mid size recruiting and temp staffing firms, get your resume in front of them, and send each recruiter contact at each firm a thank you card with a $50 gift card. It's not as good as networking into a role, but worked for me when I was in a similar position.

Your foremost goal is to get any job that's related to what you want to do. Take a temp role if you can. You need a job to get a job. From there, keep hustling, and you'll have a few options:
-get a full time offer
-network with the full time staff and ask for referrals to other firms (add em to LinkedIn, see their contacts, ask for intros)
-leverage the temp position on your resume into related roles / attention from recruiters elsewhere

Post: #9

^ Right were on the same page. I meant this was something for him to do while he looked for work/worked, not a replacement. May as well kill time being productive. Frankly a CFA may have been a better bet in the beginning instead of the Masters.

Post: #10

(04-16-2018 01:40 PM)zatara Wrote:  As a sidebar, you're probably going to need to start lying on your CV to cover that gap soon. Once its 6 months+ it becomes a problem with a lot of corporate HR departments. I'd recommend preparing an excuse in advance - you went traveling for 6 months, or you were taking care of a sick family member, or you were injured etc. And possibly mentioning it in your cover letter. Just make sure its something you're comfortable with that you can talk about in detail if you're asked about in an interview.

I understand the desire to cover up large gaps, but flat out lying on the resume in this day and age especially is extremely bad advice. A) it starts a pattern of unethical behavior you will start to rationalize and B) it's easier than ever to get nailed. I would also be careful of gifts to recruiters - they're probably not allowed to accept them anyway.


Help us help you - there's a few gaps in the story:
What's your undergrad major?
Location/country?
Age?
Level of debt?

All of the above puts a better picture together in terms of realistic possibilities given your station in life.

Post: #11

(04-16-2018 03:38 PM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  I understand the desire to cover up large gaps, but flat out lying on the resume in this day and age especially is extremely bad advice. A) it starts a pattern of unethical behavior you will start to rationalize and B) it's easier than ever to get nailed.

The problem the OP is going to face is lots of corporate HR will instantly bin a low level CV if they see a 6month+/12month+ recent employment gap on it, regardless of whats underneath it, if there is no good reason for it. As such "ethics" don't really come into it, it becomes a simple risk/reward equation. Option 1: tell the truth, get screened out before any interview stage, don't get hired. Option 2: lie, then either a) get found out and don't get hired, or b) pull it off and get the job. 1 and 2a are exactly the same end result. And 2a is very unlikely with the application of any sort of intelligence to the problem.

Its one thing (though also surprisingly common, in my professional experience) to falsify entire jobs and employment history on your CV - its quite hard to pull that off without lots of prep and background work. Making a fake company website, having a fake landline set-up, fake references, really knowing your fake role inside-out etc. But its an entirely easier matter to lie about taking a 12 month gap year to travel. Thats a lie both extremely common, and very easy to talk about at length if you've done any reasonable amount of travel in your life. And completely believable, since large numbers of people legitimately do it in their 20s these days anyway.

This obviously doesn't apply to every job and every situation, lying is more likely to lead to professional damage in a small industry in a regional town. Or if the OP was applying to creative industry roles where arbitrary strict recruitment standards aren't applied as much it wouldn't be necessary. But when applying to large MNCs in a big city its pretty standard.

If the gap on his CV continues to grow its something he'll definitely have to consider.

Post: #12

(04-16-2018 03:38 PM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  I would also be careful of gifts to recruiters - they're probably not allowed to accept them anyway.

Allowed, no. But if you ask them for advice when you meet em, and then word it as "I appreciate all of the [bullshit] advice and guidance you've given me about my career"...they're a lot more likely to take it than if you say "there's more where this came from." Game 101.

Recruiter makes coin off placing you, assuming you stick around. If a client is deciding between two candidates, recruiter can often serve as a tiebreaker. In that sense, it's a call option - limited outlay for asymmetric upside.

Post: #13

(04-16-2018 09:17 AM)Aer Wrote:  As the title suggests, I've been a victim of underemployment in this current market. I've recently graduated from my university with a Master's Degree in Economics, but yet I still have had zero luck getting even an interview (September to April, still nothing).

Echo the questions above - what jobs are you looking for, what country do you live in.

Not to nitpick but I think there could be a better thread title. "Masters in Econ but No Job, Need Advice", or something like that. I thought walking in here that you were planning on long term unemployment due to some unknown reason and wanted advice on how to best do it.

A few years in the private sector's advice here. All of the econ guys I knew in college work in finance. As far as I know anybody with a pulse can get a job as an underwriter, which does not pay a lot, but you can (in theory) quickly leverage upward.

If you want to spend some time grinding you could always try to become a personal financial advisor or an actuary. One of my econ buddies scored a job as a credit risk analyst. All of these careers make tons of money, enough for you to feasibly just put all your loans on forbearance to give you time to study exams and not be much worse for wear, financially speaking. I'm just throwing out examples here, I don't know what your math (or programming, or database) background is, good most likely. Best of luck man, also second on the "college career help" department.

Post: #14

http://hrnasty.com/job-application-follow-up/
Peruse this guy's blog for good job hunting advice. Look for his articles on resume writing and formatting, for starters.

I'd stay away from commission-only jobs such as any kind of B2C sales. I'd rather work in the trades or hospitality (not that those are bad places to be).

Post: #15

An idea as well, find some job openings you want and go on each company's website. They will usually have an email to HR people. Email them and tell them you are interested in their company and the position and would like to learn more.

See if you can set up a meeting, tour and/or a shadow to see how the company/position runs. That can give you an interview before the interview. Really even before even applying and can give you a solid leg up.

Post: #16

The fact that you're not even getting callbacks in a (supposedly) booming economy tells me either your resume or cover letters are fucked in some way. Or maybe they're just not being selected for keywords corps use in their scanning process. You should go to your college's career center and have them look both over and take their suggestions. Also, do you have any school work you can show off in a portfolio? If so, just do a quick website with a portfolio theme and show that shit off. Will put you a step ahead of competition.

Post: #17

Jobs are given to referrals and known quantities not to rundowns that send their resumes through the basic application.

Hit up your network and work connections.

Hint: talk to 5 people and get 2-3 referrals o other people to talk to from each one. Rinse and repeat. After a month of that you’ll have gotten 100 warm intros and will land something if you’re not a completely shit candidate or have some other problem.

Field tested unlike most of the other advice here.

Post: #18

Once upon a time, I wrote a guide on using networking to jobhunt. Not the greatest thing ever written but several members have told me it transformed their lives and got them jobs.

Find it in my signature. I also had a thread on the topic that the pdf is based on, should be easy to find on search.

Post: #19

You may possibly look at getting involved in the cryptocurrency space. Not sure if you have a background in risk and compliance but that is an area in high demand. Also having a background and understanding of traditional finance puts you ahead of many others in the space. I believe Binance is doing a lot of hiring and allows remote work

Post: #20

Most people do what they're told to do. When it comes to jobs, they internalize the advise they were given by their parents and by their college professors. Honestly, these two groups of people usually aren't in the position to give advise because they have no clue about the job market. The advise always is, submit your resume to a bunch of companies. That's not what contrarians or socially-astute people do. What they do, is leverage their social circle, professional contacts, or family for a job (or in a lot of cases, straight up lie or embellish their job/work history). I would advise you to take the the contrarian route-- you can't really show a company your value if an algorithm is selecting (or not) you for an interview. Walk into places seeking employment....

I would assume you are still relatively young 24, 25, etc... Maybe an internship is a good route, if nothing else, it will give you a lot of perspective, and depending on the internship, you might get paid. It also has the chance to materialize into a good job if they like your work ethic.

I saw that you're from the States. Because this is a game forum, I'd advise you to do an internship in EE, even if they don't pay you. I say this with a bit of knowledge about the subject: they like people that are educated in Anglo countries and western europe (honestly we have some of the best education systems in the world; US, UK, Canada, etc). You will find an internship easily, it is cheap to live in EE, and you can game in your time off. Honestly internships can be really good when you have no clue about your life-- they're almost like a form of sabbatical...

Also, a lot of us are dealing with student loan situations... If you have issues with loans you can leave the US, and they're (creditors) are powerless to do anything about it. (Although I don't endorse running away from debt).

Hope this helps.

Post: #21

(04-17-2018 01:52 PM)Dragan Wrote:  US, UK

Well, apart from best colleges, that are ranked top in the world and are inaccessible for an average guy, that's far from true. I personally saw how fucked up is UK general education system (primary, secondary, high-school) in the UK. It's literally either pay for a private school or be thrown to the one, where you learn how to read and add/subtract/divide/multiply at the age of 12. I believe situation in the US is pretty similar in public school in general in the US. Tons of better education systems throughout the world.

But yes, you should look for some interns or entry-level jobs in Europe. Not only EE, sure it's cheap, but compared to what you earn vs what you get for this money, you will be far better in the Western Europe. Depends on how far can your savings go, but I guess life comfort is your secondary problem, considering you can't land ANY job.

Frankly, I find it pretty weird to not be able to land any job. I saw plenty of entry-level jobs in finance niche both in the US and Europe. Maybe you should just lower your standards? Sure, jobs will always be given on more personal matter (connections) than to strangers from the ad, but there is enough of them to land something. Besides, companies making ads is usually a sign of their desperation - that means they don't have anyone to fill their desired spots and network, as most important is, I believe is less relevant in such cases.

I'm not sure how is it possible, that you are not even able to land an interview - Financial Analyst, Data Scientists, Research Analysts - I found plenty of those just in the US for Juniors. Sure, even for these jobs they will probably have people more experienced and thus you will be their secondary choice, but they are looking for new people - and are willing to train them. Means, you have a shot. Besides, you can always aim for easier positions, like Customer Service for any financial companies and try to leverage your way from there.

Job market is shit. If you want to find anything relevant and you have zero experience in the field, and very little connections, it's literally a nightmare - I'm kind of in the similar phase like you, just haven't graduated yet, but I can see all the struggle ahead of me, how competitive the market is and how many qualified people are heavily underpaid and constantly looking for better opportunities. I frankly thought the situation is better in the US as the job market is literally HUGE, but I guess the world is pretty much equally hard everywhere.

As I said, try to lower your standards, take a shit job, and try to take it from there. Always something, just make sure it doesn't sway too much from your background, and that you are going to still learn or at least be in position to learn later, skills that you can leverage for a better job. Also, if you know a second language at at least B2 level, it surely will be an asset.

Europe is good choice as there always be some companies looking strictly for native speakers to handle some business, but, considering how popular English got, they can easily find non-natives on a C1 level or above, which is in most cases enough, so it would be great to supplement it with other language (German, Dutch, French being in most demand).

Also, I did some recruiting (freelance project) for a client back in the days and as long as I still have tons to learn myself, I am 100% sure last thing you want to do when aiming for a job is just to copy paste your CV and rely on a degree, which in current world, if not from top university in the world, is pretty much useless. Supplement it with some skills - learn advanced excel, learn some programming relevant for Data Scientists. Don't have to be much, but always something, that makes you stand out from hundreds of other inexperienced applicants. Besides, most people actually do copy paste their CV and show nothing besides. Even writing a dope Cover Letter will set you ahead of the competition. I mean, it doesn't have to be actually even that good - just make recruiter remember you somehow - if no chance for in-real life meeting, make a video of yourself and explain why would you like this job, whatever. Make recruiter 'remember you' and not be just another guy.

Oh, and most importantly, read Thomas The Rhymer guide posted above. Gold. Although, I personally find it more suitable for people aiming for those higher level positions, usually with some on-hands experience already. And considering your position, I would straight-away aim to start from the bottom and quickly leverage myself from there.

Tons of choices to be honest and I totally understand the struggle. Yet, still surprised, that you couldn't even land a job, moreso an interview.

Post: #22

I was talking about higher education, not secondary education for US, UK, Canada, etc...

Post: #23

(04-16-2018 03:38 PM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  

(04-16-2018 01:40 PM)zatara Wrote:  As a sidebar, you're probably going to need to start lying on your CV to cover that gap soon. Once its 6 months+ it becomes a problem with a lot of corporate HR departments. I'd recommend preparing an excuse in advance - you went traveling for 6 months, or you were taking care of a sick family member, or you were injured etc. And possibly mentioning it in your cover letter. Just make sure its something you're comfortable with that you can talk about in detail if you're asked about in an interview.

I understand the desire to cover up large gaps, but flat out lying on the resume in this day and age especially is extremely bad advice. A) it starts a pattern of unethical behavior you will start to rationalize and B) it's easier than ever to get nailed. I would also be careful of gifts to recruiters - they're probably not allowed to accept them anyway.


Help us help you - there's a few gaps in the story:
What's your undergrad major?
Location/country?
Age?
Level of debt?

All of the above puts a better picture together in terms of realistic possibilities given your station in life.

Political Science.
USA.
25
$35,000

I hope this could be somewhat helpful. Been out of work for over 6 months yes, but I've also been taking shifts at the local bar and bartending. That probably doesn't help but at least it's something.

Post: #24

What state or region are you in? Political science is a good gig for DC, state capitals, etc...not so much for north Podunk. Econ is broader, but still. Are you interested in being in the DC area?

Internship experience?

Foreign language knowledge?

Might not hurt cold emailing think tanks and small to mid size companies for internship opportunities.

Feel free to PM.

Post: #25

(04-16-2018 04:27 PM)zatara Wrote:  

(04-16-2018 03:38 PM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  I understand the desire to cover up large gaps, but flat out lying on the resume in this day and age especially is extremely bad advice. A) it starts a pattern of unethical behavior you will start to rationalize and B) it's easier than ever to get nailed.

The problem the OP is going to face is lots of corporate HR will instantly bin a low level CV if they see a 6month+/12month+ recent employment gap on it, regardless of whats underneath it, if there is no good reason for it. As such "ethics" don't really come into it, it becomes a simple risk/reward equation. Option 1: tell the truth, get screened out before any interview stage, don't get hired. Option 2: lie, then either a) get found out and don't get hired, or b) pull it off and get the job. 1 and 2a are exactly the same end result. And 2a is very unlikely with the application of any sort of intelligence to the problem.

Its one thing (though also surprisingly common, in my professional experience) to falsify entire jobs and employment history on your CV - its quite hard to pull that off without lots of prep and background work. Making a fake company website, having a fake landline set-up, fake references, really knowing your fake role inside-out etc. But its an entirely easier matter to lie about taking a 12 month gap year to travel. Thats a lie both extremely common, and very easy to talk about at length if you've done any reasonable amount of travel in your life. And completely believable, since large numbers of people legitimately do it in their 20s these days anyway.

This obviously doesn't apply to every job and every situation, lying is more likely to lead to professional damage in a small industry in a regional town. Or if the OP was applying to creative industry roles where arbitrary strict recruitment standards aren't applied as much it wouldn't be necessary. But when applying to large MNCs in a big city its pretty standard.

If the gap on his CV continues to grow its something he'll definitely have to consider.

What about not outright lying. OP could actually start a small company. In the states, an LLC, website, enumber, business cards, and email can run under $200. He has an undergrad degree in Political Science, so he could, for example, start a political consulting company. Then, offer services to local (and I mean really local) political campaigns. Do it low key, almost part-time, while you continue your job search.

You wouldn't need to do much to acquire a few references. And, operating a consulting businesses for a year or two and then deciding to go corporate isn't that unheard of. Even moreso for those doing a pivot in industry. So, if he was looking to go in to an econ related field, it may work even better. Just a thought.