Post: #1

Post: #2

Obama recently clocked in repayment at 20 years. 10 looks nice. Not sure if there is a political will to get this done, especially if Republicans get more seats in the house and senate.

Post: #3

Sounds wonderful. Good luck getting past Republicans and fake Democrats.

Post: #4

I hate democrats, but as long as they support this bill I'll vote for them.

The student loan scandal is because the government interfered, now they should be the one to foot the bill for the debacle.


If Republicans got their act together, they'd go after the universities, who have been the profiteers scamming the federal student loan system for decades. Then I'd vote for Republicans. However, conservatives aren't smart enough to do this.

Post: #5

I only learn't the other day that student loans in the USA aren't dischargeable in bankrupcy.

So what exactly happens if you can't pay, and cannot ever reasonably be expected to pay based on your future earnings. I'm guessing the interest rate ticks up, and there are fines and penalties. If that's the case the loan will baloon to ridiculous levels that noone will be able to pay in their lifetime. Does the loan just sit there waiting waiting waiting?

As far as I'm concerned having completely non-dischargeable debt enshrined in law is a better reason for revolution than taxes on tea...

Post: #6

(03-11-2012 11:19 AM)Bad Hussar Wrote:  I only learn't the other day that student loans in the USA aren't dischargeable in bankrupcy.

So what exactly happens if you can't pay, and cannot ever reasonably be expected to pay based on your future earnings. I'm guessing the interest rate ticks up, and there are fines and penalties. If that's the case the loan will baloon to ridiculous levels that noone will be able to pay in their lifetime. Does the loan just sit there waiting waiting waiting?

As far as I'm concerned having completely non-dischargeable debt enshrined in law is a better reason for revolution than taxes on tea...

Maybe they should start eliminating stupid fucking degrees. Like French Literature. And when the student wants to graduate in that field, and then they want to go back to college because the "hate" that field, or can't make money at it, they are accountable for it. Like, suck it up until you paid off the loan from something that doesn't pay the debt, like Biology. Fuck man. They signed a contract. Pay it the fuck off. They made a bad decision. College didn't make them smarter.

Post: #7

Whats next, the mortgage, credit card debt, and car loan forgiveness bills? Free shit for everyone! To some extent I feel bad for the people who borrowed 200k to go mature in some worthless major, but at the same time no one forced them into that deal. If you let them out of their obligation it becomes a very slippery slope. If Student loan debt is dischargeable no one will get student loans because no one will actually pay them. Then you will have the bitching start about how evil the banks are because they wont lend to college students. Ultimately it will be good because it will drive down the cost of a college education if you cant borrow, but its never that simple.

Post: #8

(03-11-2012 11:59 AM)Brian Wrote:  To some extent I feel bad for the people who borrowed 200k to go mature in some worthless major, but at the same time no one forced them into that deal.

Really? I remember being told to go to college in preschool. Kids are told that they will amount to nothing with a degree, that they will be working in a McDonalds until they die without one. Kids are told that every rich person they know has a college degree.


Anyone who thinks "free will" has a role in deciding what you do with your life is pretty stupid. There are no children with free will.

Post: #9

(03-11-2012 12:15 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(03-11-2012 11:59 AM)Brian Wrote:  To some extent I feel bad for the people who borrowed 200k to go mature in some worthless major, but at the same time no one forced them into that deal.

Really? I remember being told to go to college in preschool. Kids are told that they will amount to nothing with a degree, that they will be working in a McDonalds until they die without one. Kids are told that every rich person they know has a college degree.


Anyone who thinks "free will" has a role in deciding what you do with your life is pretty stupid. There are no children with free will.

Honestly, the way things sound now, I don't think I'd bother with a formal degree if I had to do it all over again. I'd just try to get a passable job (in a trade maybe) in the Primo-city in whatever country I was in (NYC if I were American) and pursue my educational and other interests on the side. Better opportunities to meet interesting people at the top of their field, and make good connections in NYC than some little college town. And yes, people at the top do occasionally do give public lectures so you can sometimes get to meet them.

Easy to say now years later, I know. And obviously not possible for people who REALLY need the expensive paper to proceed in life (eg Medical field). But this whole debacle should make the kids, or really their parents I guess, think carefully before deciding on college.

Post: #10

There's a middle ground here. I agree with Samseau that the idea of going to college was hammered into our brains as children until we saw no other choice but to attend. I remember being told that if I didn't go to college I would end up broke and not amount to anything in life. I remember being in high school and I wanted to either go into the Army back then or just learn a trade and become a mechanic or electrician. I remember being told by one of my teachers and my guidance counselor, "You're too smart not to go to college." Therefore implying that if I went into a trade or the Army I'd be making a bad decision. It was purely academic talk.

What they failed to tell me was that my degree would cost tens of thousands of dollars and I'd still be in debt and chasing the carrot for a long time to come. They failed to even consider the possiblility of a huge economic downturn after the rip roaring 90s.

With that said, myself and people taking out loans should have done more research when we were younger. I guess I can chalk it up to being young and stupid. I would definitely rather work my way up to owning my business with some trade then be a corporate monkey for life. I'm lucky in that my tuition was cheap, I've paid off my loans, and I have a marketable degree. For the people with hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, I feel for them but really many should have known better. Just another lesson teaching us to think for ourselves instead of being spoonfed and believing BS.

Post: #11

A lot of this is a relatively new problem because the costs of college have skyrocketed in the last 10 or so years. Going to college can be a wise investment if you go to a state school and learn something like Finance or Engineering where your degree has a purpose, or it can be financial suicide if you go to an expensive liberal arts college, rack up 150k in debt, and get a major in something useless like Philosophy.

Post: #12

If you ask me, student loan forgiveness is contrary to the mindset that's forged on this forum.

With game, every man is responsible for improving himself and he's 100% responsible for the consequences of what he does or does not do. His success or failure with women starts and ends with him alone. There's no one to blame, except yourself. And with this forum, you see that men are charitable.. we're willing to help each other out, if the other guy is willing to listen and take responsibility. I'll make a joke, but we're not advocating for taxpayer funds to attend PUA conferences.

The difference between men and women is that men can accept this burden -- the idea that we're not going to shift the consequences and burden of our freely made bad decisions onto others. Socializing every cost to me is a feminist and womanly way to do things.

I'm opposed.

Post: #13

(03-11-2012 01:18 PM)Subotai Wrote:  If you ask me, student loan forgiveness is contrary to the mindset that's forged on this forum.

With game, every man is responsible for improving himself and he's 100% responsible for the consequences of what he does or does not do. His success or failure with women starts and ends with him alone. There's no one to blame, except yourself. And with this forum, you see that men are charitable.. we're willing to help each other out, if the other guy is willing to listen and take responsibility. I'll make a joke, but we're not advocating for taxpayer funds to attend PUA conferences.

The difference between men and women is that men can accept this burden -- the idea that we're not going to shift the consequences and burden of our freely made bad decisions onto others. Socializing every cost to me is a feminist and womanly way to do things.

I'm opposed.

It's not that people expect the loans to be forgiven immediately after graduation. Obviuosly that's ridiculous. It's just that banks KNOW that they are making loans for degree's that will not put the borrower in a position to be able to pay them back - ever. I'm guessing they package them into some complex financial instrument and sell them to rubes, or maybe the government - just like with mortgages. So they probably don't lose.

If, after a reasonable period of time (say 10 years after graduation), the situation is still hopeless the debt really has to be dischargeable in bankrupcy. Having debt that is not dischargeable at all is dangerously close to slavery, and brings up all sorts of foul emotions from times passed when the master had all the rights and the servant none.

Post: #14

You guys gotta stop hating on the Arts and Letters. If you have motherfuckers studying Biology and Engineering only, you have a bunch of chess-playing nerds with no ability to talk smoothly and write well. The mark of an advanced, healthy society is patronizing the arts. Look at goddamn Renaissance Europe. A society that just focuses on trades is a second-rate, client state--providing specialized services.

This dude didn't major in Computer Science, that's for sure:

Post: #15

(03-11-2012 01:18 PM)Subotai Wrote:  With game, every man is responsible for improving himself and he's 100% responsible for the consequences of what he does or does not do. His success or failure with women starts and ends with him alone. There's no one to blame, except yourself.

Bad analogy:

1.

In game, your rewards are directly proportional to the amount of effort you put in.

In college, your rewards have little to do with the amount of effort you put in.


2.

At the RVF, we don't expect repayment or charge interest for our services.

At college, there's a 7% interest rate for their worthless "services".

Post: #16

(03-11-2012 01:35 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  You guys gotta stop hating on the Arts and Letters. If you have motherfuckers studying Biology and Engineering only, you have a bunch of chess-playing nerds with no ability to talk smoothly and write well. The mark of an advanced, healthy society is patronizing the arts. Look at goddamn Renaissance Europe. A society that just focuses on trades is a second-rate, client state--providing specialized services.

This dude didn't major in Computer Science, that's for sure:

A guy doesn't go to Amherst for a degree in Badassery.....

Post: #17

I'm not hating on the arts, I'm just saying that if you are racking up debt to 'study' the arts 12 hours a week you're wasting time and money. You could probably learn a lot more getting an internship or something more hands on and you wouldnt be racking up debt in the process.

Post: #18

You need majors like Finance, Engineering and Computer Science because everyone cannot be some entrepreneur. Running a business takes almost 24/7 commitment and majors like Finance, Engineering and Computer Science allows pretty good income with only 8 hours of your day devoted to it. The issue is folks spending $50K a year for school. A student who attends a decent community college (who has ties to their state 4-year school) can get a good return-on-investment they are a Finance, Engineering and Computer Science major.

Post: #19

(03-09-2012 10:05 PM)Samseau Wrote:  The student loan scandal is because the government interfered, now they should be the one to foot the bill for the debacle.

You do realize "they" are the taxpayers, right? The only way the government pays for anything is by taking from its people and then redistributing back to a chosen segment of the populace.

I paid my student loans in full. Why should I pay for another person's? Especially if he or she studied a subject that prevents him or her from being a productive member of society.

Post: #20

(03-11-2012 04:57 PM)Smitty Wrote:  

(03-09-2012 10:05 PM)Samseau Wrote:  The student loan scandal is because the government interfered, now they should be the one to foot the bill for the debacle.

You do realize "they" are the taxpayers, right? The only way the government pays for anything is by taking from its people and then redistributing back to a chosen segment of the populace.

I paid my student loans in full. Why should I pay for another person's? Especially if he or she studied a subject that prevents him or her from being a productive member of society.

People want free schooling, free healthcare, free everything else, but its not 'free' because someone else is footing the bill. You just want to have someone pay for you while you get a free ride.

Post: #21

(03-11-2012 01:18 PM)Subotai Wrote:  If you ask me, student loan forgiveness is contrary to the mindset that's forged on this forum.

With game, every man is responsible for improving himself and he's 100% responsible for the consequences of what he does or does not do. His success or failure with women starts and ends with him alone. There's no one to blame, except yourself. And with this forum, you see that men are charitable.. we're willing to help each other out, if the other guy is willing to listen and take responsibility. I'll make a joke, but we're not advocating for taxpayer funds to attend PUA conferences.

The difference between men and women is that men can accept this burden -- the idea that we're not going to shift the consequences and burden of our freely made bad decisions onto others. Socializing every cost to me is a feminist and womanly way to do things.

I'm opposed.

Nah, fuck that. If banks are getting bail outs for their mismanaged decisions they can bail my ass out.

Post: #22

I had student loans. While I am almost done paying them off, it was MY DECISION to take out the loans because I wanted to attend college out of state. It's hard to say would I do it again because most of my current best friends are from college. Still, I tell kids today that IF you are low on money, then go the community college-transfer-to-state-university route. Community colleges have come a LONG way as far as being able to transfer smoothly. That was not the case when I was 18. Back then community college was hit-or-miss and if you planned on getting a B.A./B.S. degree, then you pretty much HAD to go straight to a 4-year school. Now?....much better.

Where I live, community colleges are $90/credit. You can spend $6,000 and knock out the first 2 years of college and U-Maryland will take ALL the credits. You can go the state school route if you major in something like computer science. I know these DC-area employers don't even care.

Post: #23

(03-11-2012 08:11 PM)Commander Shepard Wrote:  

(03-11-2012 01:18 PM)Subotai Wrote:  If you ask me, student loan forgiveness is contrary to the mindset that's forged on this forum.

With game, every man is responsible for improving himself and he's 100% responsible for the consequences of what he does or does not do. His success or failure with women starts and ends with him alone. There's no one to blame, except yourself. And with this forum, you see that men are charitable.. we're willing to help each other out, if the other guy is willing to listen and take responsibility. I'll make a joke, but we're not advocating for taxpayer funds to attend PUA conferences.

The difference between men and women is that men can accept this burden -- the idea that we're not going to shift the consequences and burden of our freely made bad decisions onto others. Socializing every cost to me is a feminist and womanly way to do things.

I'm opposed.

Nah, fuck that. If banks are getting bail outs for their mismanaged decisions they can bail my ass out.

Banks at least supply jobs as long as they are in business (although I'm against the bailouts). What do you do? Most importantly, what would you do in return for a bailout from your fellow citizens?

Post: #24

(03-11-2012 08:56 PM)Smitty Wrote:  

(03-11-2012 08:11 PM)Commander Shepard Wrote:  

(03-11-2012 01:18 PM)Subotai Wrote:  If you ask me, student loan forgiveness is contrary to the mindset that's forged on this forum.

With game, every man is responsible for improving himself and he's 100% responsible for the consequences of what he does or does not do. His success or failure with women starts and ends with him alone. There's no one to blame, except yourself. And with this forum, you see that men are charitable.. we're willing to help each other out, if the other guy is willing to listen and take responsibility. I'll make a joke, but we're not advocating for taxpayer funds to attend PUA conferences.

The difference between men and women is that men can accept this burden -- the idea that we're not going to shift the consequences and burden of our freely made bad decisions onto others. Socializing every cost to me is a feminist and womanly way to do things.

I'm opposed.

Nah, fuck that. If banks are getting bail outs for their mismanaged decisions they can bail my ass out.

Banks at least supply jobs as long as they are in business (although I'm against the bailouts). What do you do? Most importantly, what would you do in return for a bailout from your fellow citizens?

Do what I've been planning to do with my life.


Also, I don't believe you have to be a job creator in order to get assistance from the government during times of economic hardship.

Post: #25

(03-11-2012 08:56 PM)Smitty Wrote:  Banks at least supply jobs as long as they are in business (although I'm against the bailouts).

After they catalyze economic implosion.