Post: #1

There is a boat for sale in my area in Indonesia, and I'm intrigued, however I don't know the first thing about boat ownership.

It's a 28 foot motorsailer with an upper cabin and lower birth, and seems to be well fitted out and to be selling at a good price: about $14,000.

I figure it could be used for touring between the islands of Indonesia - is 28 feet big enough for that? What kind of diesel and operating costs would I expect? How do I get training, and how much training is needed to operate such a boat? What sorts of licensing is usually required? How do I legally take it between nations, and is it big enough to do so? Has anyone done any touring around in boats before? How did you enjoy the lifestyle?

I suppose the boat could also be chartered, and I could also try to partner with a scuba instructor or tourist agency to use it for day trips to reefs. Anyone have any experience of setting up such a business and the profitability of such?

Again, I haven't a clue about all aspects of anything I should have a clue about to make such a purchase. But owning a boat would be cool. Seems like a good price and size to start with. Please share your thoughts.

Specs on the boat are:
3m Aluminum Dinghy
15hp Yamaha Enduro Outboard.
Anchor. fenders and oars for dinghy.
Gebo Hatches
V berth double at front.
Folding table / single bed.
Galley with Cooker and fresh water supply, sink and storage.
2x 100l Plastimo flexible fresh water tanks.
Parmax automatic water pump for shower and washdown.
4x BP Solar panels.
45 Nanni Diesel. Just serviced. Low hours.
Garmin GPSmap 550s with Depth sounder transducer.
Auxiliary Garmin GPS.
Raymarine Autopilot
Furuno Depth sounder.
Asia Cellular Satellite Phone.
Engkel Fridge / Freezer
Electronic Marine Toilet
Outdoor shower
Stainless Steel Davit.
Fenders.
Maxwell winches.
Muir Anchor winch.
Roller furling sail.
Recently repaired mainsail and UV covers.
Lifevests
CD player with indoor/outdoor speakers.
VHF Marine radio.
Handheld waterproof VHF.
Many spare parts and tools.
2300w GMC Petrol Generator.

Post: #2

Pics? Draft? Can you sail? Even a sunfish of hobie cat?

Post: #3

I know quite a bit about boats.

What kind of experience on the water do you have?

You got pictures? Who made it?

What kind of cash do you have on hand beyond the 14k for the boat?

Sorry to answer questions with questions. I love the water, and in/around Indo is some of the best fishing/surfing/diving in the world. The questions are necessary to make sure you just aren't blowing cash.

Aloha!

Post: #4

You can see it here http://boatsale.weebly.com/gallery.html

As a boy I sailed in some one man dingies. The names sunfish and hobby cat both ring a bell. That's it.

Beyond the 14,000 I have plenty more, and a steady good income.

Post: #5

(03-10-2012 07:12 PM)xsplat Wrote:  You can see it here http://boatsale.weebly.com/gallery.html

As a boy I sailed in some one man dingies. The names sunfish and hobby cat both ring a bell. That's it.

Beyond the 14,000 I have plenty more, and a steady good income.

If I were you I'd get some training first. I know the water pretty well in Indo, at least western, and it can be rough. I don't know how they do licensing over there, but you also may need to take a test or two.

Before you drop 14k (you could probably talk that down to 10, by the way) know a little more about what you're doing. Not only could you trash your new ride, you just might not like it.

That boat looks like it's been around, too. An older boat can be a maintenance nightmare. The inspection standards in Indo are no way near US standards, so you're gonna have to hire somebody to look it over good and make sure it's safe.

Aloha !

Post: #6

It's not real sexy is it? It looks like something a serious sailor would use for traveling. The bilge looks especially good. They probably cleaned it real well for the pictures. It didn't say who made it or the year?

I think you may want to start with a skiff the learn how things work out there and take some sailing and safety classes before you dive into that big of a boat.

Start small and move up is what I'm saying.

Also the condition of the bottom is very important. Does it need to be redone? Rudder? Prop? Needs to be looked at. If it needs a haulout that's about 5k to fix that stuff here.

Post: #7

Hey xsplat,

Have you seen the boat, or just the pictures?

Looking at it again, those may have been taken in a way that hides some major flaws. The carpet on the interior pics changes colors and is just laid down, for example.

Keep in mind a massive tsunami hit Indo in 2004, which was definitely in that boats lifetime. All kinds of shit got trashed. It could be like buying a Katrina flood car with Louisiana plates, so find out where that things been.

Aloha!

Post: #8

For training, what about hiring a captain for the first few trips? I don't know what that would cost, but can't imagine that even a skilled trade such as that would be expensive labor in Indonesia.

I don't know how much modern gadgets and charts and weather forecasts can smooth the way for newbs. Can I just use gps and some gizmos to keep from bumping into bad things?

I get it that a smaller boat would be easier to learn to navigate, but it's not much use to me to have a boat that won't go between islands. I'm not much into just cruising around the local shore. I'd like something that can get out into deeper water without bouncing me around and scaring the shit out of me.

I'm heading out in a few hours to try to see the thing, but haven't yet set up an appointment for a tour.

What questions should I ask the owner when I meet him?

Post: #9

You need a trained eye to look at those things for sure. I'm not talking about some dudes dad who used to sail.
http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/25445
Compare with these. The prices on that site are high.

Post: #10

What about boating as a lifestyle? How much time do you like to spend on the water? Is finding a harbor usually pretty easy? How would a boat that size handle rough water?

I could see taking the thing out for a week or two to some local islands now and again, doing a little fishing, touring, scuba diving (haven't learned that yet either), snorkeling, and the like. I'd hope that I could charter it out enough at least to pay for maintenance and depreciation - is that a reasonable expectation?

Post: #11

if it's hot there you're gonna die using those inside controls. That shit is for ocean going in bad weather not casual island hops/ chasing pussy.

How far are the other islands? You're going to need some serious experience to do that. The ocean can and will hand your ass back to you faster than you can imagine. One mistake. You're done.

Post: #12

(03-10-2012 07:41 PM)xsplat Wrote:  What questions should I ask the owner when I meet him?

For 14 grand I wouldn't hire a marine surveyor, but the captain you want to hire would probably be a big help before you buy.

When I buy boats, the first thing I do is show somebody that I have the ability to pay for it. I'm more interested in the money side though.

Since you're a rookie, I'd keep it brief with the questions for negotiation purposes. If you look like you don't know what you're doing a broker will hold your feet to the fire. But, if you tell them you got an experienced captain around to look at it, they might not try to shark you.

Ask if it comes with a transferable slip, and how much that is and what it includes.

Some others:

1) Where was it during the 2004 tsunami!!!!!!

2) What kind of insurance does it currently have and how much.

3) When's the last time it was pulled and painted and how much was it.

4) How much documentation of maintenance is there.

5) How old is it and who made it.

The point is, even though you don't know boats, you know money, and you aren't gonna get screwed.

Aloha!

Post: #13

(03-10-2012 07:56 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  if it's hot there you're gonna die using those inside controls. That shit is for ocean going in bad weather not casual island hops/ chasing pussy.

How far are the other islands? You're going to need some serious experience to do that. The ocean can and will hand your ass back to you faster than you can imagine. One mistake. You're done.

I'd begin by floating between Bali, Lombok, and the Gili Islands. They're only a few hours apart. Indonesia has many of it's islands in a chain, plus the larger islands are endless coast.

A concern greater than the weather to me would be pirates - another risk I have no experience with.

Good point about hot weather. It includes a genset, and I could upgrade that if need be to run an aircon.

So that size and shape is designed for the open ocean? Actually, that's more in line with what I want - something that can hazard some blue water and take some rough seas. Of course I'd be very cautious and only venture out in deep (or any) water if the weather man gave me his long term blessings first.

I hear you that the ocean can kill you. But realistically, what can you learn on a smaller boat that you can't learn on a bigger one? If it's about the cost of sinking a boat, I can sink $10,000 or even $14,000 without shedding too many tears. I'd rather sink a stout boat than a wimpy one - at least the stout boat would have done a better job protecting me - right?

One last point about drowning and all the nasties of the ocean. I want to live forever. But I already have some very serious health issues, including heart disease and a history of strokes, and other bad shit, and it's a month by month year by year thing for me anyway. Death is already close at hand - floating in a boat isn't going to change that much.

Post: #14

'If It Flies, Floats Or Fornicates, Always Rent It'

Post: #15

(03-10-2012 08:04 PM)Kona Wrote:  

(03-10-2012 07:41 PM)xsplat Wrote:  What questions should I ask the owner when I meet him?

For 14 grand I wouldn't hire a marine surveyor, but the captain you want to hire would probably be a big help before you buy.

When I buy boats, the first thing I do is show somebody that I have the ability to pay for it. I'm more interested in the money side though.

Since you're a rookie, I'd keep it brief with the questions for negotiation purposes. If you look like you don't know what you're doing a broker will hold your feet to the fire. But, if you tell them you got an experienced captain around to look at it, they might not try to shark you.

Ask if it comes with a transferable slip, and how much that is and what it includes.

Some others:

1) Where was it during the 2004 tsunami!!!!!!

2) What kind of insurance does it currently have and how much.

3) When's the last time it was pulled and painted and how much was it.

4) How much documentation of maintenance is there.

5) How old is it and who made it.

The point is, even though you don't know boats, you know money, and you aren't gonna get screwed.

Aloha!

Thanks Kona, I'll try to remember those questions. The Tsunami was in Aceh, which is pretty far from here, so if it was in Aceh at the time it's since made a considerable journey.

I won't be able to keep from coming off as a complete newb, and I won't even try. I'll just claim to be too broke to come up higher than $10,000, and only then if the thing passes inspection.

I think it would be far more fun to have a floating chunk of money in the local harbor than another piece of gold in the safe.

Post: #16

(03-10-2012 08:27 PM)xsplat Wrote:  

(03-10-2012 07:56 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  if it's hot there you're gonna die using those inside controls. That shit is for ocean going in bad weather not casual island hops/ chasing pussy.

How far are the other islands? You're going to need some serious experience to do that. The ocean can and will hand your ass back to you faster than you can imagine. One mistake. You're done.

I'd begin by floating between Bali, Lombok, and the Gili Islands. They're only a few hours apart. Indonesia has many of it's islands in a chain, plus the larger islands are endless coast.

A concern greater than the weather to me would be pirates - another risk I have no experience with.

Good point about hot weather. It includes a genset, and I could upgrade that if need be to run an aircon.

So that size and shape is designed for the open ocean? Actually, that's more in line with what I want - something that can hazard some blue water and take some rough seas. Of course I'd be very cautious and only venture out in deep (or any) water if the weather man gave me his long term blessings first.

I hear you that the ocean can kill you. But realistically, what can you learn on a smaller boat that you can't learn on a bigger one? If it's about the cost of sinking a boat, I can sink $10,000 or even $14,000 without shedding too many tears. I'd rather sink a stout boat than a wimpy one - at least the stout boat would have done a better job protecting me - right?

One last point about drowning and all the nasties of the ocean. I want to live forever. But I already have some very serious health issues, and it's a month by month year by year thing for me anyway. Death is already close at hand - floating in a boat isn't going to change that much.

Some boats don't sink but I would say it looks like it could handle same serious water but you need to know how old? Who made it? Hull condition. etc. Show me some sites that sell boat there. I have time my kid is sleeping. You may want something more plush?

Also this town I live in is full of pro liveaboard sailors. If you needed one to come teach you it would only cost a plane ticket and cheap beer.

Where are the or are there any marinas near where you live? Links?
[attachment=5289]
I keep mine here. do you have a place like that there? The other people there would teach you alot if you spent time there

Post: #17

That's a sweet looking harbor.

Benoa harbor is the closest to me. A google search comes up with many links, including http://www.balidailyphoto.com/place/benoa-harbour/ and http://www.gabbylewis.com/benoa-harbour

Airfare and beer, huh? Might be doable.

I have a budget, but I got it by being a businessman, so of course I'd like to ultimately have the boat be cash neutral or even positive. I'd love to partner with scuba instructors and local tourist agencies for instance, to use it for day trips and longer charters. Honestly I probably wouldn't use the thing much. It would look good on a dating profile, and could force me out of my apartment to take up scuba diving and get out more.

Post: #18

(03-10-2012 08:59 PM)xsplat Wrote:  That's a sweet looking harbor.

Benoa harbor is the closest to me. A google search comes up with many links, including http://www.balidailyphoto.com/place/benoa-harbour/ .

Airfare and beer, huh? Might be doable.

I have a budget, but I got it by being a businessman, so of course I'd like to ultimately have the boat be cash neutral or even positive. I'd love to partner with scuba instructors and local tourist agencies for instance, to use it for day trips and longer charters. Honestly I probably wouldn't use the thing much. It would look good on a dating profile, and could force me out of my apartment to take up scuba diving and get out more.

Sailboat for scuba? It's going to be a mess. where are you going to put all the tanks with a load of people? That boat is set up for two people taking trips and living on the low end on.

Post: #19

(03-10-2012 08:37 PM)xsplat Wrote:  The Tsunami was in Aceh, which is pretty far from here, so if it was in Aceh at the time it's since made a considerable journey.

I was there right after. The whole coast of Sumatra got rattled though. There might be notes on the title if it's a salvage.

(03-10-2012 08:37 PM)xsplat Wrote:  I'll just claim to be too broke to come up higher than $10,000, and only then if the thing passes inspection.

Don't do that. you want to give them the impression you can buy 20 boats, and that you aren't a sucker. You're dealing with a broker who hasn't owned the thing himself. The common saying is something like "you don't want to buy a used boat, you want to buy a loved boat" or "you hand the cash to someone with a tear in their eye not a smile on their face."

(03-10-2012 08:37 PM)xsplat Wrote:  I think it would be far more fun to have a floating chunk of money in the local harbor than another piece of gold in the safe.

Hell yeah it's more fun, once you know what you're doing. Plus, mine all turn profits. Over there making money might be tougher. I don't know anything about their fish auctions, and the tour seasons are probably thinner. In and around Bali, the market is probably flooded with boats, and all those guys got way more experience than you. You could probably hook up with a charter company and just send your boat out with them for a fee. I used to do that with mine, now I get them from others.

You also need to find someone, if you do this, that knows how to register you with the film associations and movie makers unions and whatnot. I've taken famous people and models out for photoshoots and filming movies. That pays big, and girls galore! There's also a ton of surf spots only accessible by boat in Indo, and people pay top dollar to get there. You may have the wrong boat for that though.

I can tell you tons of other ways to make money with boats, but lets stick to the basics.

Aloha!

Post: #20

(03-10-2012 09:04 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  Sailboat for scuba? It's going to be a mess. where are you going to put all the tanks with a load of people? That boat is set up for two people taking trips and living on the low end on.

Oh.

Is it big enough to charter out with a captain on board?

Post: #21

(03-10-2012 09:11 PM)xsplat Wrote:  

(03-10-2012 09:04 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  Sailboat for scuba? It's going to be a mess. where are you going to put all the tanks with a load of people? That boat is set up for two people taking trips and living on the low end on.

Oh.

Is it big enough to charter out with a captain on board?

Charter for island hops? It may not be fancy enough for spoiled tourists. Ask Kona because I've never been there.
[attachment=5290]
Scuba boat. The kind you get to make money

Post: #22

(03-10-2012 09:17 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  Charter for island hops? It may not be fancy enough for spoiled tourists. Ask Kona because I've never been there.

Scuba boat. The kind you get to make money

Ya, that's a nice commercial boat.

I've had romantic nomadic notions about boats for some years now. When I daydream the thing will always have a sail on it, and be able to brave deep ocean water. I like the idea of being able to move by wind if need be, using solar panels for the electrics. Romantic, sure, but it just fits a picture in my head that makes me feel warm and fuzzy.

I like the idea that if the shit hits the fan, I can hop in my floating house and go anywhere, even if there is no gas for sale, for instance. Or just have a weekend floating-fuck-hotel handy to invite random girls to.

I understand there is no perfect boat. You make tradeoffs in size and speed and cost etc. My ideal tradeoff might be pretty close to what this guy is selling - big enough, cheap enough, fitted out enough, has a sail and a motor and can be taken into blue water at no big risk.

Post: #23

(03-10-2012 09:26 PM)xsplat Wrote:  

(03-10-2012 09:17 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  Charter for island hops? It may not be fancy enough for spoiled tourists. Ask Kona because I've never been there.

Scuba boat. The kind you get to make money

Ya, that's a nice commercial boat.

I've had romantic nomadic notions about boats for some years now. When I daydream the thing will always have a sail on it, and be able to brave deep ocean water. I like the idea of being able to move by wind if need be, using solar panels for the electrics. Romantic, sure, but it just fits a picture in my head that makes me feel warm and fuzzy.

I like the idea that if the shit hits the fan, I can hop in my floating house and go anywhere, even if there is no gas for sale, for instance. Or just have a weekend floating-fuck-hotel handy to invite random girls to.

I understand there is no perfect boat. You make tradeoffs in size and speed and cost etc. My ideal tradeoff might be pretty close to what this guy is selling - big enough, cheap enough, fitted out enough, has a sail and a motor and can be taken into blue water at no big risk.

I hear you. I'm right there with ya. So let's forget about making money for now. What else is for sale near you? A red flag on that boat for me was the fact the brand or year wasn't mentioned. You need to find that out first. Also the hull id numbers should be on the back of the transom on the right side looking from the back. That maybe just a USCG thing but most all boats have those for registration etc. If not it would need to be surveyed for insurance if you wanted it.

Find out who made the hull we can look up how well it's made. If the guy selling it doesn't know then ask for the numbers. None? Then you have a problem.

Post: #24

(03-10-2012 09:36 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  Find out who made the hull we can look up how well it's made. If the guy selling it doesn't know then ask for the numbers. None? Then you have a problem.

Got it. No reply from the guy yet, but I'll shoot over to the harbor and see if I can learn more.

Post: #25

[attachment=5291]Here ya go