Post: #1

I don't know if I am doing anything wrong or I am just unlucky. I have been trying to get a gf and/or sex for the past 8-9 months. There are no girls at my job, I am out of school, I don't have friends (willingly), and clubbing and cold-approaching only work if you are chad or lower your standards to own hand>girl levels.

So I tried online dating. Tinder, bumble, POF, you name it. It has been months. I messaged dozens of girls on POF, a good portion of them replied, but then they would randomly stop talking for no reason. I tried everything: asking for whatsapp right away, being direct right away, waiting a bit then asking for whatsapp, waiting a lot then asking for whatsapp. Nothing worked, except for this 1 girl (ironically, she was the best looking of all the ones I messaged) who gave her whatsapp and then we dated. But she wasted my time.. we went on a date it went well and she was interested. Then a few days we chatted before setting up the date which is when she just lost interest through no fault of my own as our chat went fine. Obviously she found someone better.

I got 0 dates from tinder and bumble. I don't know how any guy succeeds, you must be a top 20%er. On tinder I got a decent number of matches the first 2 days, after that 1 match per month. I am a 6/10-7/10, have a good profile, good pictures, etc.. so I can't think of any problem. The girls who did match with me in the beginning were 3/10-4/10, but barely any of them replied, 1 replied but then stopped talking randomly. Same experience on bumble.

On bumble I listed a good job on my profile and suddenly I started getting more matches and also better looking girls. Still a low number of matches overall though, and only 1 of them said hi. I didn't bother replying as I don't think she would have let me fuck her prior to finding out that is not my real job. Then I took the job away and again back to 0/1 match from a fugly entitled bitch per month.

So yea. This online thing just doesn't seem to work unless you are a top 20%er. I already read about this before but I just wanted to try it myself. Well I can confirm it now.

I guess the only way for me to meet a girl is in real life, but that will take something like 5-10 years to find one. Cold-approaches are same as online dating: if you are not chad she will automatically say no; no girls at my work; I don't go to school. I even tried volunteering several places but it just made me more frustrated because single girls my age were rare and if they were there, there was no chance to talk to them, like I couldn't go to another group while they were working on something then randomly introduce myself to a girl in front of everyone. So I said fuck that I already wasted so much time on that shit.

I guess the only way is through a social circle, but I am an introvert, I would rather die than be who I am not 24/7 and deal with 100s of annoying dumb people and fake friends daily.

What really pisses me off is, on a daily basis, seeing guys uglier than me with decent looking girlfriend. Talk about luck. I just feel like I have been singled out to be excluded from the laws of the universe because every single girl that I even met in real life is a chad only type. Yet I see all these ugly non chad guys with decent looking girlfriends. How come 0% of the girls I happen to bump into through random luck end up being chad only, just like online girls. I am a smart and logical guy.. I usually figure most things out using logic... but this I cannot.

Post: #2

Lift, dress well, read books => voilà! You’re in top 20% of men (more like 1% actually).

And btw, Tinder game is tough for everyone. Your stats do not strike me as particularly bad. You need to work on being good on dates. What makes the difference is not the number of matches but your ability to be good during dates. (POF has the highest concentration of trannies in the world btw).

Ask yourself why would a girl date you and make a list of the reasons. If you can’t find a reason, become a better man first.

Post: #3

(04-08-2018 05:29 AM)Montrose Wrote:  Lift, dress well, read books => voilà! You’re in top 20% of men (more like 1% actually).

And btw, Tinder game is tough for everyone. Your stats do not strike me as particularly bad. You need to work on being good on dates. What makes the difference is not the number of matches but your ability to be good during dates. (POF has the highest concentration of trannies in the world btw).

Ask yourself why would a girl date you and make a list of the reasons. If you can’t find a reason, become a better man first.

I do lift and dress well. I am naturally super skinny though so even after lifting I can at most just be average size. Right now I am under average size but not that skinny anymore. I read books, I am intelligent, have lots of general knowledge, and I am witty. I know how to talk to girls, and all my dates go well and I make girls laugh and I also have a very good balance of douche/nice. So these are all the reasons a girl should date me. But..

Being top 20% is only about muscle/square jaw and/or wealth and/or social status. Those are the only 3 metrics girls use to select a partner.

Post: #4

Completely disagree on that. In the anonymity of Tinder or daygame, nobody knows your wealth or social status. Just look the part, it’s easy. Wear suits.
As for facial features, few women really care about them.
I think that your self defeating beliefs might be a problem
I gather that you are a young ectomorph. How tall and how old are you?

Post: #5

I am average height. In my mid 20s.

Post: #6

I’ll let others comment, but maybe try websites which are less focused on appearance and more on personality, where you can develop a description of yourself. I like okcupid for example. Your text game might be a bit weak.

Maybe you have a problem of confidence. Let it sink in that you are in top 5%. There is no reason to think otherwise. You just need the opportunity to show it.

I’d try daygame too. It’s not very efficient but it’s fun and it builds confidence.

Post: #7

(04-08-2018 06:03 AM)Montrose Wrote:  I’ll let others comment, but maybe try websites which are less focused on appearance and more on personality, where you can develop a description of yourself. I like okcupid for example.

Maybe you have a problem of confidence. Let it sink in that you are in top 5%. There is no reason to think otherwise. You just need the opportunity to show it.

Already did. I am alpha on all my date and even in my text games. I tease, always take the upper hand, make them feel insecure about themselves, etc.. so all of this leads me to believe that nothing matters but muscle/money/social status trifecta. Meanwhile I have seen beta acting big bodied guys acting like faggots and getting girls wet.

Girls perceive alphaness as how you look, not how you act. A guy who looks ass can shove a dildo in his ass and moan like a little bitch and girls will get wet and say how confident and unique he is and how a real man gets it up the ass.

But anyways, I don't want to derail the thread because I don't look beta either.

Post: #8

Well - all I can say is that your beliefs (including your other post ‘does game exist?’) go against everything I have observed in 8 years of internet dating.

Post: #9

(04-08-2018 05:40 AM)kbronik Wrote:  Right now I am under average size but not that skinny anymore.

Height/weight?

Post: #10

The first thing you've done wrong is you didn't post this in the newbie forum

Post: #11

My man, you are completely out of alignment here.

There are so many limiting beliefs in your head right now and you have to clear those out right now if you are going to succeed. I understand you're trying to vent, and trust me, many of us here have experienced your frustration, but there is no need.

First things first: You can get laid and get a girlfriend even if you are the ugliest man alive. If you are even average looking, you can succeed! Just because the last 10 months haven't gone well doesn't mean the next 10 months will too. Learning game is a LONG process. Especially as an introvert. More on that later.

Second thing: Don't give us the I'm a naturally skinny guy routine. What that really means is "I'm not dedicated enough to the iron". I was a 6" tall beanpole at one point, and with a proper diet I was able to gain over 50 pounds and now I'm ripped. It can be done.

You gotta eat, and eat a lot. Get your ass over to weightlifting and fitness and we will help you get shredded up. Don't tell me you can't.

What you need my friend, is a game plan.

Here's what you're going to do:

1: Give up with the excuses and unlearn everything you've tried before.

2: Get your hands on some literature. Read Bang, Blackdragon's online dating manual, and How to be a 3% Man by Corey Wayne. Read each of these at least 5 times.

3: Start grinding in the gym. Like I said, up those calories and lets talk about your training style.

4: Once you've done the above, if online game is what you want to do, you are going to need some professional pictures. Check the other Tinder/Online dating threads here. Those are the experts.

5: ABA bro. Always be approaching. I agree that online game isn't all its cracked up to be, but combined with an ABA mentality it will keep your roster full if you are doing it with a correct framework and leading women confidently through your interactions. Both of my LTRs I met through cold approach. One at a beach, and the other while grabbing a drink. I didn't go there to game at all! That's the idea.

6: Stay positive. Get a log going in the newbie forum so you can monitor your progress. We are progress oriented creatures, so seeing progress over time in a written form will help keep you motivated! This isn't a short process as I said before.

Women generally respond best to gregarious, outgoing men. Generally as introvert you are going to have to learn to be this. I get the sense that you really dont like people all that much and are a bit of a recluse. That attitude has to change if you want to succeed with women.

Think about it like this: there are billions of people on this world, and every single one has a different story, different dreams and different looks. Every person is an adventure. That's what motivates me to keep approaching. I won't get em all, but I will get some and that's all that matters.

So in summary my man, turn that attitude around. You can succeed. Spend some time around here and keep positive and you will get to where you want to go if you put in the work.

Post: #12

I'm happy to evaluate your profile(s) if you PM me. I'm willing to bet there's quite a bit of room for improvement.

Post: #13

Some good tips in this thread generally but I don't think a better profile or pictures or a suit are going to help you (at first). Initially, you need to eliminate your self-limiting beliefs. Become more social. Talk to everyone - the old lad at your office, your barber, dentist, the uber driver, the cashier. Practice social interactions and being curious about other people, and it will become a habit. (This idea comes from the book, The Magic of Thinking Big by David Schwartz).

If you want to get better at something, you need to strive for both consistency and quality. Keep track of the number of people you talk to each day and the quality of each interaction. Give yourself a point if you make them feel better about themselves. Give yourself a point if you learn something new about them. make it a game. Soon you will be seeking out places where you can have interactions, like Starbucks or whatever, rather than staying in your own shell.

If you are talking to 20 people a day, you will become comfortable with it so when you approach a girl at the grocery store or Starbucks you come off as confident and casual.

Post: #14

(04-08-2018 08:32 AM)Investment Bro Wrote:  My man, you are completely out of alignment here.

There are so many limiting beliefs in your head right now and you have to clear those out right now if you are going to succeed. I understand you're trying to vent, and trust me, many of us here have experienced your frustration, but there is no need.

First things first: You can get laid and get a girlfriend even if you are the ugliest man alive. If you are even average looking, you can succeed! Just because the last 10 months haven't gone well doesn't mean the next 10 months will too. Learning game is a LONG process. Especially as an introvert. More on that later.

Second thing: Don't give us the I'm a naturally skinny guy routine. What that really means is "I'm not dedicated enough to the iron". I was a 6" tall beanpole at one point, and with a proper diet I was able to gain over 50 pounds and now I'm ripped. It can be done.

You gotta eat, and eat a lot. Get your ass over to weightlifting and fitness and we will help you get shredded up. Don't tell me you can't.

What you need my friend, is a game plan.

Here's what you're going to do:

1: Give up with the excuses and unlearn everything you've tried before.

2: Get your hands on some literature. Read Bang, Blackdragon's online dating manual, and How to be a 3% Man by Corey Wayne. Read each of these at least 5 times.

3: Start grinding in the gym. Like I said, up those calories and lets talk about your training style.

4: Once you've done the above, if online game is what you want to do, you are going to need some professional pictures. Check the other Tinder/Online dating threads here. Those are the experts.

5: ABA bro. Always be approaching. I agree that online game isn't all its cracked up to be, but combined with an ABA mentality it will keep your roster full if you are doing it with a correct framework and leading women confidently through your interactions. Both of my LTRs I met through cold approach. One at a beach, and the other while grabbing a drink. I didn't go there to game at all! That's the idea.

6: Stay positive. Get a log going in the newbie forum so you can monitor your progress. We are progress oriented creatures, so seeing progress over time in a written form will help keep you motivated! This isn't a short process as I said before.

Women generally respond best to gregarious, outgoing men. Generally as introvert you are going to have to learn to be this. I get the sense that you really dont like people all that much and are a bit of a recluse. That attitude has to change if you want to succeed with women.

Think about it like this: there are billions of people on this world, and every single one has a different story, different dreams and different looks. Every person is an adventure. That's what motivates me to keep approaching. I won't get em all, but I will get some and that's all that matters.

So in summary my man, turn that attitude around. You can succeed. Spend some time around here and keep positive and you will get to where you want to go if you put in the work.

Solid advice. +1 Rep point.

As this is essentially a newbie forum discussion. I have two questions based on what was said.

1. What is the forum's tolerance for journals/ logs focusing on self improvement that are not approach / gym-related? Say eating disorders or what-not. Is it encouraged even if nobody else is interested in the posts -or- discouraged for clogging up the forum with what could be seen as mostly notes-to-self?

2. On introversion, the biggest potential plus point or negative in a man's life to me is a circle of Alpha friends, the more time spent among them on a regular basis the better.

I've seen advice - join a rugby team, start Brazilian Jiu Jitsu .. but I haven't seen much else. So question or request.. asking for thoughts, threads, more comprehensive advice or even a data sheet.

Post: #15

You're probably doing quite a bit wrong but it's hard to say specifically without seeing dates or conversations. The fact that you think game "isn't a thing" is indicative of a very distorted reality. Sure there will be women where you have to just not screw up, but for the more discerning/higher quality, game can often be the make or break or the reason you have a shot in the first place.

Being douchey:
Guys who are douchey sometimes do well because they are confident and don't care that much, not because they are douchey. Just be aware that it's a very common mistake to prod a girls insecurities and you're probably better off avoiding it completely. A lot of guys try to fake it until they make it, and they come off as try hard or insecure. Or they just outright insult the girl thinking they're gaming her and she's not even comfortable enough to see him again.

Social circle:
It takes time to establish good social contacts, but you have to put yourself out there and bring value. I get the impression your attitude is alienating people. If you don't like social interactions and clearly have an agenda to just get laid people will see through it. If you were doing charity or xyz activity because you genuinely enjoy and excel at it, you will inevitably develop valuable friendships and social circles with common interests. Just find other activities and ways to be social that you enjoy. If you can't be social a couple times a week despite being an introvert, what type of girl can you honestly expect to pull and keep around. Most women have no interest in living a hermit lifestyle in some introverts sex dungeon.

If you're not a great looking guy then it's even more important to have an appealing personality and a good knack for social calibration. That said, those qualities massively boost anyone's success rate and get rusty with a lack of practice. You said yourself you see plenty of mediocre looking guys with hotter women. You're admitting an opposite reality to the Chads take all (which is obviously hyperbolic). You don't know the back stories of those couples, but there's a very good chance they met through school or social circles.

Women look at a guys social circle and success to help them decide how to feel about him. It's still largely a feeling and isn't as calculated as you're implying. Men can be attracted to a hot woman in a vacuum, but it's not a fraction as much of a cakewalk for an attractive/successful guy. She still has to have good emotions about you in person, so it's very common for good looking guys to do very well on a cold approach but later fail because the positive emotions have dissipated and she has no alternative opinions or variables to fall back on. If in that same scenario they happened to have a mutual friend who said even one seemingly minor good thing about him, his chances are massively higher. It's an order of magnitude more important to a woman that a man fits into and is respected by her social circle and/or family.

Online dating:
You seem to have the attitude of "I don't have time or patience for social circles." The quality you can date is going to be capped at a point or two lower than whatever you are, even if you play your cards well. This is how online dating works for even the Chads you snidely complain about. Attractive women have good social circles and don't need online dating to have access to high quality guys, so they're underrepresented. Why would a hot girl risk wasting her time and/or safety on a date with a guy who maybe lied about his high status job (you, case and point) when she can get one of many guys in her circle who is vetted and verified by several mutual friends. The 8 and 9 Chads are getting mostly 6s and 7s online if they have good game. Lahddy freakin dah.

Post: #16

A LOT of great advice on here. Like many of you are saying i suggest fixing your inner self right now. You honestly sound like you have low testosterone which can be fixed with a good diet, meditating, and supplementation (only zinc and such) and lifting HEAVY.

Get the mindset that you're a casted out young bull, training hard to be the alpha male. Bulls can't masturbate so all the locked up aggression must be taken out on training.

HAVE FUN!!! I don't care if you're alone! go out and have fun, that doesn't mean club necessarily. That could be swimming, exploring, going to trampoline parks, going to the gun range, finding a race track and driving cars, taking up a martial art. the list goes on and on. If you're the art type go to art classes or theaters. Basically, have fun and get this stress off of you, stress KILLS. let me repeat.....STRESS KILLS YOU. especially if you're a man. You'll find better friends at places YOU like to go and maybe even women.

Sounds like you found FaceandLMS or one of those lookism sites/articles/videos.....Some of what they say is true. But the community is build up of losers who gave up. Of course, they're going to make everything more negative than they are.

Your problem right now is innergame. Find out who you are, and who you WANT to be, and find a realistic path of achieving that person.


here are some good articles i think that'll help.. game wise....but you need help establishing your own identity. If i find something that'll help that, ill send them
/thread-44.ht...inner+game
/thread-3974....inner+game
/thread-8028....inner+game
/thread-10881...inner+game

Post: #17

The real problem here is that you are not as good as you think you are. You say you're smart and logical but how's that working for ya?

Some people cant come to terms with reality. You're essentially saying "I look good, I have a good personality, I know how to talk to girls" when that's obviously not the case. If it was true you wouldn't be writing this.

You need to do some solid introspection and figure out what is holding you back. My guess is that you are shitty at talking to girls and your social skills suck.

Post: #18

(04-08-2018 12:10 PM)Steelex Wrote:  The real problem here is that you are not as good as you think you are. You say you're smart and logical but how's that working for ya?

Some people cant come to terms with reality. You're essentially saying "I look good, I have a good personality, I know how to talk to girls" when that's obviously not the case. If it was true you wouldn't be writing this.

You need to do some solid introspection and figure out what is holding you back. My guess is that you are shitty at talking to girls and your social skills suck.

Na man I have no reason to lie and I am not delusional. I think my problem is not having met enough girls. In the past 8-9 months I met like 5 girls in real life in the right context to ask them out, but none were interested, even though I acted alpha and made them laugh and stuff. Well actually 1 was interested but due to my luck, due to a retarded and weird circumstance that was not either of our choices it couldn't work out.

I think it comes down to the fact that I don't have a social circle. It is such a tough choice.. I might be able to get a girlfriend if I become social but then as an introvert I would hate that life. I am stuck between 2 shitty options. But it seems like even with a big social circle it is hard to meet girls. It seems like every year girls get more picky in terms of chad only, and also every year online dating becomes more mainstream, so that also makes girls chad only because once a girl uses online dating she will never give real life non chad guy a chance again.

Post: #19

(04-08-2018 01:22 PM)kbronik Wrote:  

(04-08-2018 12:10 PM)Steelex Wrote:  The real problem here is that you are not as good as you think you are. You say you're smart and logical but how's that working for ya?

Some people cant come to terms with reality. You're essentially saying "I look good, I have a good personality, I know how to talk to girls" when that's obviously not the case. If it was true you wouldn't be writing this.

You need to do some solid introspection and figure out what is holding you back. My guess is that you are shitty at talking to girls and your social skills suck.

Na man I have no reason to lie and I am not delusional. I think my problem is not having met enough girls. In the past 8-9 months I met like 5 girls in real life in the right context to ask them out, but none were interested, even though I acted alpha and made them laugh and stuff. Well actually 1 was interested but due to my luck, due to a retarded and weird circumstance that was not either of our choices it couldn't work out.

I think it comes down to the fact that I don't have a social circle. It is such a tough choice.. I might be able to get a girlfriend if I become social but then as an introvert I would hate that life. I am stuck between 2 shitty options. But it seems like even with a big social circle it is hard to meet girls. It seems like every year girls get more picky in terms of chad only, and also every year online dating becomes more mainstream, so that also makes girls chad only because once a girl uses online dating she will never give real life non chad guy a chance again.

It's not getting much harder because there are more and more hermits like you who are too lazy or too socially maladjusted to go out and make real life social connections. You're grasping for excuses as to why you should just give up because you don't want to hear that it really just takes time and effort. You just keep parroting Chad this and Chad that which tells me your alpha act probably has more holes than Swiss cheese and comes across as weird. Stop trying to act like something you're not and I guarantee you'll enjoy social interactions a lot more.

If you're not regularly social you're going to probably come across as aspergered whether you realize it or not. Being introverted doesn't mean you can't enjoy being extroverted. You seem to be embracing the identity to avoid dealing with whatever social problems you have. It's like fat people who resign to being fat because they think of it as a genetically imbued trait rather than something within their control. You're externalizing the blame for your failures on extreme irrational negative thoughts "I'm too introverted" "Chad competition is impossible to compete with" "I'm not good looking enough" "all social circles are a dreadful chore" or "I'm an unlucky person"

With that attitude, no fun social circle will invite you out. If you can't learn to relax and find some degree of enjoyment in social interaction with people, your looks and wealth won't even be relevant because the overwhelming majority of attractive women and people in general will next you right out of the gate.

Post: #20

I think the issue you're running into is that you're not coming off as very genuine. From what I can tell from your OP and follow up posts, you have a shy background, consumed a fair amount of game knowledge, tried it out, got no results, and are looking for excuses as to why you failed and why you should be allowed to back out, or looking for different ways to attack the problem.

The dirty little secret is that you can read all the game you want, and you can even start lifting, working on posture, and so on, but if you misapply the knowledge and don't come off as genuine as a result of weak inner confidence or just inexperience in general, you'll fall flat. Game, despite all the scenarios we talk about and subjects like shit tests and so on, mainly revolves around a state of mind, holding a good frame, and being willing to adapt to situations and learn from your missteps. Yet you clearly do not have a strong state of mind or will, as you are already looking for reasons to give up, by extension I doubt you are holding a good frame even if you think you are, and you seem very rigid in your tactics and logic which is not only damaging the interactions themselves, but also your ability to reflect upon why you fail. You clearly lack the foundation that the rest of game depends upon. You can read all the guides you want from any of the different game authors, but in the end if you're weak in those areas and socially maladjusted, and you don't fix those problems, none of it will make a difference.

In the end, though we call it 'game', it's not like a game of chess or a video game where you can read guides and see immediate improvement because you figured out 'the way' to do things.

Post: #21

Five interactions gone bad over the course of nine months and it's time to throw in the towel because if flawlessly delivered "alpha funny" didn't work, what will? Pack your bags boys, game has been scientifically proven obsolete by a natural (sample size n=5).

Just flip a coin for a little while and you'll get streaks of heads or tails 4-5+ times often enough to show you how much variance even 50% can produce (50%+ of women are probably taken or have good dating prospects). If you are only a bit above average looking and aren't getting regular experience your expected success rate could be a few percent or lower, making your instinct to quit at five rejections oblivious to reality and very thin skinned.

Post: #22

"I am alpha on all my date and even in my text games. I tease, always take the upper hand, make them feel insecure about themselves, etc..

This is something that someone with a strawman idea of game/PUA would say, not to mention the fact that you're apparently basing this on only 5 dates over the course of 9 months.


"so all of this leads me to believe that nothing matters but muscle/money/social status trifecta. Meanwhile I have seen beta acting big bodied guys acting like faggots and getting girls wet."

Yeah, it looks like you're one of the sluthate/LMS-Is-Everything guys trying to push the narrative that game isn't real, through claiming that you're someone who has it but failed and see that people who have LMS are the only ones who succeed. Anyone who isn't a hermit will tell you that their experiences don't fit with your narrative.

Post: #23

(04-08-2018 05:40 AM)kbronik Wrote:  I am naturally super skinny though so even after lifting I can at most just be average size.

I read books, I am intelligent, have lots of general knowledge.

Your Nutrition and Physiology knowledge is on par with my algebra skills.

Which isn't saying much.

Post: #24

OP

Your "wanting a girlfriend" is neediness leaking into your already shitty game and turning girls off.

By the way, yes there is such a thing as game and denying its existence (along with your poor results, and some of the things you say you do) is pretty much telling me that you dont have a clue.

No game = shitty game

Shitty game = no girl

You've gotten some great actionable advice already in this thread about what you need to do to effect positive changes.

But change is hard and requires effort

Complaining about what you dont have (looks, wealth, social circle, etc etc) is easy

Its a rare man that will undertake the harder road while the common man takes the easier path

Which one are you?

Post: #25

Take the advice in this thread with an open mind. The advice is generally consistent...because most of us have been there, in one way or another.

OP hasn't hit ego death / rock bottom yet. I've been there myself. Actively sheltering your ego, hamstering, to maintain illusory superiority. You'll hopefully realize sooner than later that the people who do (or don't) want to be in your life are a more accurate grade of your worth than you are yourself.

I suggest others not to waste their time with additional suggestions...let's get a post from OP that basically says "thank you all, I'll try this, this, and this advice for <noticeable length of time> and report back."