Post: #1

I’m a student and part-time retail employee. I have no status, no fame and no cash. An honest estimate of my SMV is 6. Put me in the vibrant, bustling metropolis that is London and I drop down to 5. Despite this I’m no longer approaching 6’s. I’m done with them; they’re no longer of any use to me.

I’m not just a keyboard analyst reciting things I heard or read here and there , the following views are a direct result of me reading Roosh/Heartiste going into the street , developing my own gaming style and putting in the work ( > 500 approaches since November )

I] High quality girls are like crack

Dope addicts are forever chasing the intense euphoric pleasure they experienced during that first high, surprisingly I found my first experience with a high quality chick to be extremely similar.

I had worked hard approaching countless 8s and 9s and eventually I started getting some numbers. That gave me hope and I kept ploughing.

Eventually I started getting dates and ended up bringing my dream girl home from a date and got a make out, due to some “Logistical issues” documented in my approach thread, we never saw each other again. But from that moment on I knew I was capable of banging high quality pussy.

I was now addicted to walking down the street with a girl and people staring like they had just seen a glitch in the matrix.

I wanted that feeling again. I felt like I had put in work and I deserved it.

My ego had increased and my frame became much more solid. I was now stepping to more 8s and 9s and I got rejected … a lot. But every single time I felt myself losing hope I would simply think back to that date with my dream girl and think:

“She rejected me because of issues she’s having with herself not because of issues she’s having with me”

But now despite all those rejections, beauty was no longer crippling to me. I could now look 9s in the eye and game them like I was gaming the 6s and 7s. As my confidence increased I started to get more numbers and eventually more success.

II] High Risk / High Reward

As an accounting student I understand that during investment decisions, the reward must be greater than or equal to, the initial risk.

I feel like if you want me to risk my life crossing a busy street because I’m trying to reach you before you turn the corner and I lose track of you : You’ve got to be a certified bad bitch .

If you want me to approach you at a bus stop during rush hour where ten people are going to stop whatever they’re doing to watch the spectacle as soon as I spit my opener: You’ve got to be a certified bad bitch.

If you want me to approach you at work and spit game in front of my co-workers and boss: You’ve got to be a certified bad bitch.

The “rather cute “ basic bitch who’s rocking worn out uggs with a leggings and a sweatshirt isn’t going to make the cut.

One thing I’ve noticed during my approaches is that girls can feel when I’m not that into them and they act accordingly, I think its because I know my biggest weakness is thinking that low value girls don’t need to be gamed as hard as high value ones , which is false . This also leads me to my next point:

III] Your game is automatically much tighter when you’re dealing with major talent

Now I haven’t really been around too many game aware players to test this theory, but I know with regards to myself that it is definitely true.

It’s like my subconscious knows that it’s well and truly “gametime” and that I have a lot less room for error. I start talking more slowly and deliberately, I maintain eye contact, check my body language , my shit test detector is set to stun etc etc It’s like I’m totally zeroed in on the approach .

With < 6’s, I’ve been known to take some liberties during the approach and during text game. I want to avoid being seen with them so I go for “no date bang recipe” and things of that nature but with high quality girls I don’t even bother to text; I call.

IV] Low quality girls tend to be the ones who enjoy shutting you down in the rudest way possible.

First of all, want to my one thing clear, blowouts and rude rejections are rare. In a 10 approach session, I’d say the average is 2 numbers, 6 Boyfriend rejections and 2 blowouts.

However a disproportionate part of those blowouts come from < 7’s. I must stress that I’m not just grouping the girls that blow me out into the < 7 category out of spite , I’m being as honest as I possible can when I say that the number of girls who gave me a “ disrespectful rejection “ who were > 8’s is about 7/8 . This is during more than 500 approaches .

I actually have a theory on this : I feel like average girls or even insecure attractive girls feel the need to artificially increase their perceived value by shutting dudes down disrespectfully .

The irony is that real dimes tend to shut you down lightly and with a smile on their face, not with a look of contempt and nose in the air.

V] Conclusion

In conclusion I feel like a lot of guys are selling themselves short by not approaching > 8s . I am all for self improvement and I'm currently in the gym 5x a week myself but you don't have to be ripped with 10% body fat and 500k in the bank to be able to pull. Determination and mental stamina to play an insane numbers game should suffice .

Post: #2

Quote:Your game is automatically much tighter when you’re dealing with major talent

Seconded. The more I'm attracted to a girl the more motivated I am and thus the more dominant I am. If she gives me signals upon the approach that she's receptive it's lock-on from there. The hottest girls are often also the nicest too, at least during the day. Though I suspect my SMV may be higher than yours due to a combination of looks and status (I also seem to be a bit older), a lot of guys on the forum from all backgrounds have mentioned something similar.

Once it all starts clicking for you, you'll be amazed at what is possible.

Post: #3

*reads title*
standing ovation.

Post: #4

I can attest to hot girls being much nicer than mediocre looking girls.

That being said, mediocre girls are a dime a dozen and I'll get 2 blowouts, 2 boyfriend rejections and 6 bangs where they fuck hard to make up for their ugly face

Post: #5

Great post. Glad to read it.

Post: #6

It is certainly true that the lower-caliber girls will give a rude "blow-out" style of rejection whereas the higher caliber beautiful girls are much more polite and kind with their rejections being much more soft and subtle.
I used to think it was just my personal bias of viewing the prettier girls through rose-tinted glasses but after seeing more and more of this, I realized it certainly is a thing.

Definitely has to do with the uglier girls milking the rejection as much as possible to inflate their desperately low sense of self-worth as well as to make sure their friends around them witness the rejection and behold her high-standards and overall greatness.

Post: #7

Excellent thread. That's why sometimes I shake my head when I hear guys focusing way too much on SMV and creating limiting beliefs around that.

Maximize your SMV, but while you're out in the field, approach a lot of girls and approach the hottest girls you can see. And dont impose limiting beliefs like "I'm not good looking enough or cool enough to bang her".

I made that mistake last Saturday with a hottie and messed it up when she was very into me. I'm not doing that again.

Post: #8

Good stuff.



That's the spirit. Or to put it like Heartiste - it is every man's prerogative to fuck women way beyond his looks.

You are doing plenty of self-improvement anyway. Probably with your workout goals reached you might raise yourself to a male 6 or even 7 if you are short and wear 3-inch height enhancers like Brad Pitt does - heh.

So coupled with Game a 7 or 8 is not impossible.

That however does not discount money & wealth - with that AND Game you can bang 8s more consistently especially when older. Still - well done mate.

Post: #9

Agreed and a philosophy I certainly live by. (Tho I still warm up on the 6s and 7s)

I also agree on the low quality girls being the most cutting in their rejections. For all the low self worth reasons already mentioned. Certainly agrees to my experience in the field.

What I might add is gaming (and getting) high quality girls also really strengthens your sense of entitlement. Much as you can try to fake it till you make it, nothing beats building up good solid reference experiences of attracting and banging top drawer chicks to solidify you being able to hold it together talking to the next 9.5

I have seen plenty of guys who have rock solid game and consistently bang 6s and 7s. Yet despite clearly having the skills to pick up a 9, the vast majority will go to pieces when they get face to face with a chick of higher quality purely just cos they don't deem themselves to be worthy.

Post: #10

approaching girls "out of your league" (hate that term, but it is what it is) is every true man prerogative. i would consider that a law of nature himself. dealing with a girl that is more or less equal to you in looks is fine and would possibly be good girlfriend material, but no-strings attached sex with that 9 you saw at the lounge bar is better.

Post: #11

True that. the only downside of getting hotties that i noticed is that all of ok/cute girls that might be perfectly fine to date no longer inspire me too much to even engage them.

So it feels like there are less girls that i actually feel like taking to. i guess it's like once you taste something exceptional you don't want to go back to average.

oh well...

Post: #12

Like Charlie Harper said in an episode of 2 and a half men, beautiful women are sometimes the loneliest women.

Post: #13

(04-14-2015 04:56 PM)Sensei Creation Wrote:  

“You can tell a lot about a nigga by his bitch” – 50 Cent

In conclusion I feel like a lot of guys are selling themselves short by not approaching > 8s . I am all for self improvement and I'm currently in the gym 5x a week myself but you don't have to be ripped with 10% body fat and 500k in the bank to be able to pull. Determination and mental stamina to play an insane numbers game should suffice .

I like the basic idea behind this thread and the "people staring like they had just seen a glitch in the matrix." line is classic but true to anyone ever walking around with a legit top tier girl. The feeling is addicting like driving around in a high end sports car.

One thing I noticed is that while it's much easier is to bang 5's you still have to put work into them on some level and there's only so much gaming a normal sane guy is going to do. This is why I like the idea of shooting for 7+ girls. If you have to spend time on them, they mind as well be good looking even if the success rate with them is lower. Much better payoff. it's like job hunting. Sure a $60k a year job might be easier to get, its still going to require you to jump though hoops so you mind as well shoot for the higher end ones at 80k+

Couple of issues;

1) You still haven't got past a make out or day 2

2) Once you do get past this stage can you keep these girls for more than a couple dates?

^^Serious question because I know a lot of PUA types lose out on high end girls quick because the only thing they do is pickup and thats not a sustainable thing. I think this is where value plays the most impact. If you approach 2,000 HB8+ and you finally end up fucking one, what happens when she peeks into your life? Thats the shit you want to take care of as well. I'm not saying you don't have this down but take a good hard honest evaluation at your life. Ask yourself if you were a hot chick would you want to date someone like you? Majority of men can't answer this question accurately/honestly.

I'm still in the process of trying to fix my own life in this manner so I'm not judging just offering some advice.

Post: #14

The idea of "Out of your league" is an illusion. There is no league unless you create one yourself by being a coward.

Challenging hot girls are a lot of fun and very stimulating. Talking to them forces you to be on top of your game because they can see through bullshit really fast. I believe in having quality women. If you're going to devote part of your life to game then why settle for only 5's and 6's?

Post: #15

I certainly approach girls out of my league all the time. While ROI is probably lower than if I approached mostly 4s of my own race, I want to feel satisfied at every approach I make.

I treat game not as a box I need to tick off, but as being a hunter looking for prey.

Post: #16

Thanks for bumping this gem. Wonder what happened to OP.

Post: #17

My game now is entirely centered around top talent.

I think the evolution for a lot of guys is focusing on the easy 6-7s and they max out ~8. 9-10s are a lot of effort requiring considerable investment in off-field work (logistics, appearance, etc.).

But after a period of game where you have gained the skills to get 6-8s rather consistently, any gamer who has an urge to go to the next level will gravitate towards 9-10 game.

Post: #18

(02-05-2018 02:19 AM)dknightbro Wrote:  My game now is entirely centered around top talent.

I think the evolution for a lot of guys is focusing on the easy 6-7s and they maximize ~8. 9-10s are a lot of effort requiring considerable investment in off-field work (logistics, appearance, etc.).

But after a period of game where you have gained the skills to get 6-8s rather consistently, any gamer who has an urge to go to the next level will gravitate towards 9-10 game.

Your reps seem to back up what you say. When going for these higher-tier chicks, do you run night game exclusively? Tips for daytime?

Post: #19

(02-05-2018 02:28 AM)churros Wrote:  

(02-05-2018 02:19 AM)dknightbro Wrote:  My game now is entirely centered around top talent.

I think the evolution for a lot of guys is focusing on the easy 6-7s and they maximize ~8. 9-10s are a lot of effort requiring considerable investment in off-field work (logistics, appearance, etc.).

But after a period of game where you have gained the skills to get 6-8s rather consistently, any gamer who has an urge to go to the next level will gravitate towards 9-10 game.

Your reps seem to back up what you say. When going for these higher-tier chicks, do you run night game exclusively? Tips for daytime?

Thanks mate. I can only speak from my experience & preferences as I know game varies for what every gamer considers "higher-tier".

Anyways, I do it all. Daygame & nightgame. I started exclusively w/daygame, but literally branched out to nightgame out of repetitiveness (was in a daygame set & realized my brain was running on autopilot & I knew how the interaction was going to proceed).

You can get higher-tier from daygame. So no need to think you must do nightgame for access to them. However, nightgame provides a denser pool.

Daygame & nightgame are inherently different. I don't believe some schools of thought where they are the same. So mentally I'm prepared to switch modes.

Nightgame can help your daygame & vice versa. Which is why I do both. Daytime accessing higher-tier is actually easier than nightgame, but that may be specific to my case. I'm naturally a better daygamer, but maybe things have changed recently as I'm finding nightgame more fun these days (used to despise nightgame).

One big thing about daygaming higher-tier chicks is rather obvious: simply approach more of them. I wasn't approaching them as much before since my game was still improving on the 6-8 range, but once I actively chose to approach higher tier I started to get through.

Post: #20

Good point man. When you get shut down by a dime piece, usually they're just a little bit amused like it's just another day at the office for them heheh. It is odd when a lower tier girl wants to be extra rude in how they shut a dude down.

Post: #21

I am not sure if I have the same or part same experiences, since I'm not sure what various forum members would define as a "9" or a "10". Hot, sexy, bitchy looking girls tend to blow me out more often and with less regard for politeness, while pretty/beautiful/cute looking girls who are ultimately my "type" ("DNA tug"), it tends to go a lot smoother, with more natural chemistry. Sometimes girls I approach will freeze, or run away, or have nervous twitches, the latter is difficult sometimes to distinguish from an IOI or just a degree of social anxiety.

Maybe my stops on the fast as hell walking, bitchy looking girls are just not strong enough. I get exhausted easily solo so I do a lot of slower approaches. Plus when you do a full on front stop in front of a 27 year old stunner who knows her value all too well, in front of an audience, it's a high intensity approach in many senses of the phrase.

Post: #22

Nice value OP.
It's difficult for me to define "out of my league". I can't really consider girls unattainable just based on their looks.
Out of my league would be someone like Catherine Dutchess of Cambridge simply because there's no scenario in which we could actually end up banging.

Post: #23

(02-05-2018 10:21 AM)Skank_Hunt Wrote:  I am not sure if I have the same or part same experiences, since I'm not sure what various forum members would define as a "9" or a "10". Hot, sexy, bitchy looking girls tend to blow me out more often and with less regard for politeness, while pretty/beautiful/cute looking girls who are ultimately my "type" ("DNA tug"), it tends to go a lot smoother, with more natural chemistry. Sometimes girls I approach will freeze, or run away, or have nervous twitches, the latter is difficult sometimes to distinguish from an IOI or just a degree of social anxiety.

Maybe my stops on the fast as hell walking, bitchy looking girls are just not strong enough. I get exhausted easily solo so I do a lot of slower approaches. Plus when you do a full on front stop in front of a 27 year old stunner who knows her value all too well, in front of an audience, it's a high intensity approach in many senses of the phrase.

Once I decided to actively approach 9-10s, I literally threw myself at a gauntlet of "fast as hell walking, bitchy looking girls" as you describe them. So you get an idea of what I'm dealing with.

And like you can imagine, it was as raw & rough as you think. Blowout after blowout. But through it all, I was able to gradually calibrate & learn what I was doing wrong. Still a work in progress, but the one main thing is I'm a lot less intimidated by them now. Even though it may be another blowout, I've become accustomed to it. You can effectively start to laugh it off when the pattern of rejection keeps appearing. This frees up valuable mental RAM for me to calibrate (if the set is still salvageable) or simply move on to the next set.

Maybe other guys have a talent for these types of girls, but I basically had to learn from scratch every inch of the way.

Post: #24

(04-14-2015 05:22 PM)Sonoma Wrote:  I can attest to hot girls being much nicer than mediocre looking girls.
That being said, mediocre girls are a dime a dozen and I'll get 2 blowouts, 2 boyfriend rejections and 6 bangs where they fuck hard to make up for their ugly face

The quality of their face does not indicate how good they will be in bed. I will be just as happy smashing a 5 as I will be hitting it with a 9.

With that said. Hit on the super attractive women. Too many guys skip over them

Post: #25

9s & 10s is super subjective to each person on a personal level...

I agree going for the women YOU deem ideal is important. However, there is a double edge sword...

I know the broad range of women I like down to facial features. (There are certain looks I will never feel attraction for no matter how universally attractive)

As a result, despite being in a huge city it's rare to find a woman I consider ideal and have adapted to fetishes as it's more probable.

The days where I am in a venue and thinking "damn so many women to figure out which is best for me" are over.

As for sex, on a physical level it's more or less the same. It's the psychological aspects that are the game changer. I learnt this many years ago after hooking up with a girl who was hot BUT not my type...We had sex BUT I didn't have that sex crazed vibe I'm used too. She liked me a lot and was cool but it was obvious sexual chemistry wasn't there for me like normal.

When it's a check I'm genuinely attracted to, it's psychologically moving. Fetishes on the other hand comes and go, great in the moment but then craving other fetishes, it's an insatiable drive.

P.S...No girl is out of your leave and attractive women says nothing about a woman's quality of being. For me personally there reaches a certain point where physical looks reach a point where comparison becomes childish, it also fluctuates girl to girl...I'll never forget one girl I used to mess with months prior, I seen a girl in a long dress while smoking n texting. I knew 100% after I was finished texting I was going to meet her as she was dressed in such a stunning manner. Turned out, before I can meet her she notices me hugging & kissing me. I was shocked I already knew her and had reached a point where we needed a "place to hookup"...NOW, years later +1 kid and small city life it's shocking how much she changed, although she will forever be the long dress stunner in my mind.