Post: #1

Several years ago I injured my shoulder pretty badly. It could of been the working out, or it could of been the car accident, or the serious bike fall. Anyway, I have a separated shoulder.(grade 2) I got diagnosed in 2008, with physical therapy I'm now able to do 5 lb weights no problem. I also use theraband. I can do 6lbs weights and I get bigger but my shoulder starts to bother me.

I want to get stronger, but I want to do it carefully.

4 years is enough time to heal and I heard that getting the injured area stronger is one of the bast things from getting reinjured.

I would love to do more weights but when my shoulder starts bothering me I have to stop working out for a couple of days. It's better for me to keep the low weights and constantly do them than to take it up to a higher weight, feel pain and take a week off.

I don't want to do the surgery and the several doctors I visited also tell me it's not that bad to do surgery.

Any ideas?

Post: #2

Can you do push-ups? Those are one of the best exercises for strengthening the shoulder girdle.

Post: #3

(03-05-2012 02:39 AM)wolf Wrote:  Several years ago I injured my shoulder pretty badly. It could of been the working out, or it could of been the car accident, or the serious bike fall. Anyway, I have a separated shoulder.(grade 2) I got diagnosed in 2008, with physical therapy I'm now able to do 5 lb weights no problem. I also use theraband. I can do 6lbs weights and I get bigger but my shoulder starts to bother me.

I want to get stronger, but I want to do it carefully.

4 years is enough time to heal and I heard that getting the injured area stronger is one of the bast things from getting reinjured.

I would love to do more weights but when my shoulder starts bothering me I have to stop working out for a couple of days. It's better for me to keep the low weights and constantly do them than to take it up to a higher weight, feel pain and take a week off.

I don't want to do the surgery and the several doctors I visited also tell me it's not that bad to do surgery.

Any ideas?

I had shoulder surgery after I dislocated it a few times. It's worked out fine, you just have to make sure you hit PT shortly after surgery and stick with it. Also, if you have access to a pool, you can do resistance exercises under the water at different angles that help strengthen the shoulder.

I don't live weights, but be careful once your arm rises above your shoulder. It's the most unstable position for the joint. Good luck.

Post: #4

(03-05-2012 06:40 AM)ElJefe Wrote:  Can you do push-ups? Those are one of the best exercises for strengthening the shoulder girdle.

No, push ups make it worse.

Post: #5

(03-05-2012 11:06 AM)cellblock4 Wrote:  

(03-05-2012 02:39 AM)wolf Wrote:  Several years ago I injured my shoulder pretty badly. It could of been the working out, or it could of been the car accident, or the serious bike fall. Anyway, I have a separated shoulder.(grade 2) I got diagnosed in 2008, with physical therapy I'm now able to do 5 lb weights no problem. I also use theraband. I can do 6lbs weights and I get bigger but my shoulder starts to bother me.

I want to get stronger, but I want to do it carefully.

4 years is enough time to heal and I heard that getting the injured area stronger is one of the bast things from getting reinjured.

I would love to do more weights but when my shoulder starts bothering me I have to stop working out for a couple of days. It's better for me to keep the low weights and constantly do them than to take it up to a higher weight, feel pain and take a week off.

I don't want to do the surgery and the several doctors I visited also tell me it's not that bad to do surgery.

Any ideas?

I had shoulder surgery after I dislocated it a few times. It's worked out fine, you just have to make sure you hit PT shortly after surgery and stick with it. Also, if you have access to a pool, you can do resistance exercises under the water at different angles that help strengthen the shoulder.

I don't live weights, but be careful once your arm rises above your shoulder. It's the most unstable position for the joint. Good luck.

I'm also coming to the conclusion that swimming will improve everything.

Post: #6

Do not do presses (like military presses) , as i see the previous poster is warning you.

They are hard on shoulders even for non injured people

As for swimming it's a great exercise but keep in mind that freestyle can hurt your shoulder too..

Post: #7

Shoulder dislocation is a very common skydiver injury. So the "common knowledge" is that once you had it, you can have it anytime again. Surgery works at least for some people, several of my friends who went through it are happy. However the rest didn't want to do it, so we definitely do not have a representative sample here.

However the question about how you should progress needs to be addressed by your doctor. Which doctors have you talked to? Were they orthopedic surgeons or some chiropractor quacks?

Post: #8

(03-05-2012 08:24 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  Shoulder dislocation is a very common skydiver injury. So the "common knowledge" is that once you had it, you can have it anytime again. Surgery works at least for some people, several of my friends who went through it are happy. However the rest didn't want to do it, so we definitely do not have a representative sample here.

However the question about how you should progress needs to be addressed by your doctor. Which doctors have you talked to? Were they orthopedic surgeons or some chiropractor quacks?

I talked to my primary doctor, we did x-rays in 2008 and 2009, problem(shoulder separation) was the same even with physical therapy. The shoulder did get stronger but it still hurts sometimes and I have only 60% strength in the shoulder compared to the other one. Then I saw 2 different orthopedic surgeons. They both said I need more time to heal( back in 2009) and I should continue doing my physical therapy exercises.

Post: #9

I had a 3 degree shoulder separation.

It took a long time to work around it.

I don't do any overhead shoulder movements. I also don't do any heavy flyes or free weight dumb bell presses.

I stick to machine-based training for any movement involvement my chest (since the delts will be recruited).

I did a ton of band traction work.

Her'es an illustrative video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iznmHYc9fBY

For more info, look around for "shoulder traction" "band man" "Dave Tate" "Jumpstretch bands."

Post: #10

I didn't watch this video, but based on who's doing it, will guess that it's legit. (I'm familar with the guy's work in other areas.)





Band traction is life changing.

Post: #11

My mom is a physical therapist and brings home some therabands from work from time to time. Any time I've been injured, I use them and go through a range of motion to help loosen things up and gain my strength back.

I'm sure there are specific exercises, but just be sure you trust your body. If it hurts a little, that's probably OK. If you're in excruciating pain, lay off for awhile. Rest and not over-training are crucial here.

Post: #12

(03-05-2012 11:36 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  I had a 3 degree shoulder separation.

It took a long time to work around it.

I don't do any overhead shoulder movements. I also don't do any heavy flyes or free weight dumb bell presses.

I stick to machine-based training for any movement involvement my chest (since the delts will be recruited).

I did a ton of band traction work.

Her'es an illustrative video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iznmHYc9fBY

For more info, look around for "shoulder traction" "band man" "Dave Tate" "Jumpstretch bands."

Band traction sounds like a good idea. I don't have any joint space in my shoulder, and it looks like this will improve my mobility in the shoulder.

How did your shoulder respond to band traction?

Post: #13

(03-05-2012 11:53 PM)wolf Wrote:  How did your shoulder respond to band traction?

Subject to the limitations noted above: Traction cured it.

I can do bodyweight dips like it's no thing.

I just don't push heavy free weights overhead.

Post: #14

(03-05-2012 11:56 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(03-05-2012 11:53 PM)wolf Wrote:  How did your shoulder respond to band traction?

Subject to the limitations noted above: Traction cured it.

I can do bodyweight dips like it's no thing.

I just don't push heavy free weights overhead.

Thanks for posting that Mike. I have been dealing with a shoulder injury that keeps getting hurt when I push my shoulder workouts too much.

I will probably stick with just lighter military press and leave it at that.

I have done this type of stretching and has helped.





I think the band traction will be a ton better. Just purchased one.

Post: #15

i'm currently laying in bed with severe pain in both shoulders. i've had to stop lifting 10 days ago. i'm trying to get an appointment to see my orthopedic. i am afraid that i have rotator cuff damage from chronic wear, perhaps even a slight tear in one or both shoulders.

i fought through the pain for months then one day doing a clean and jerk it just hurt so bad i couldnt even move my arm. radiating pain to my elbow.

i finally gave up.

been doing conservative treatment for 10 days - rest, ice, advil. by the time i get in to the see the orthopedic i'm going to ask him for MRI's in both shoulders.

i'm fucking depressed about it.

nothing to add here, just venting on the shoulder pain and how i'm afraid its gonna fuck my lifting up forever.

Post: #16

You guys have to learn the shoulder lock.
Just suck your shoulder into it's socket using the lats, and push around as many weights as you want.

Post: #17

wolf, you're going to get lots of different opinions on this. The shoulder is a complicated joint and lots of different muscles/tendons/ligaments could be the source of the problem.

I've had a partial RC tear followed several years later by a separated shoulder (AC joint tear, not a dislocation, which people often assume the term 'separated shoulder' refers to). In both cases, PT worked to bring improvement in range of motion (ROM) and strength. In both cases, strength improved more than ROM, which to my way of thinking is suboptimal. If you have good ROM, you can build strength. The converse is not true, and if you push for too much strength without ROM, it's a decent way to get injured. Anyway, in both cases, once PT benefits plateaued, I opted for arthroscopic surgery, and all they really did was clean out the debris, and this, after the week on ice/sling, greatly improved ROM, and from there I could build on strength.

It's been 4 years - your shoulder has healed as much as it's gonna heal. Another year won't make a difference. How is your assisted ROM (someone lifts/moves your arm, or you do it yourself with your good arm)? Is it any better than your unassisted ROM? If full ROM (relative to your good shoulder) isn't there, I would guess that those multiple injuries have left behind a lot of scar tissue/debris that is getting in the way of things moving smoothly in the joint, in which case, arthroscopic surgery is the quickest way to fix the problem.

If you really don't want to do surgery, get a tennis ball, and start rolling it into the tissues around the shoulder, including the back. Lots of good videos on how to do this. Lean against a wall at first. When that stops being painful, switch to a lacrosse ball. When that stops being painful, sandwich the ball between your body and the ground (warning - this will hurt like a muthafucka). All this massage will help break up adhesions, which, no doubt, you have a ton of. After each session of deep tissue massage, go through range of motion - it should get slightly better. You could also find a massage therapist who specializes in joint injury massage (these people often work with athletes and dancers), and are much better value than physical therapists IMO.

As for lifting, from what I understand, bench press and dips are tough on the AC joint. Pushups and dumbbell bench are easier, but may still be too much depending on your specifics. Now this is going to go against what others have said, but I think the BEST excercise for your shoulder (ONCE YOU HAVE FULL ROM) is the overhead press with strict form (sloppy form is a good way to reinjure yourself). Rippetoe's Starting Strength is a good resource on how to properly do the overhead press.

Post: #18

(03-06-2012 03:34 PM)assman Wrote:  wolf, you're going to get lots of different opinions on this. The shoulder is a complicated joint and lots of different muscles/tendons/ligaments could be the source of the problem.

I've had a partial RC tear followed several years later by a separated shoulder (AC joint tear, not a dislocation, which people often assume the term 'separated shoulder' refers to). In both cases, PT worked to bring improvement in range of motion (ROM) and strength. In both cases, strength improved more than ROM, which to my way of thinking is suboptimal. If you have good ROM, you can build strength. The converse is not true, and if you push for too much strength without ROM, it's a decent way to get injured. Anyway, in both cases, once PT benefits plateaued, I opted for arthroscopic surgery, and all they really did was clean out the debris, and this, after the week on ice/sling, greatly improved ROM, and from there I could build on strength.

It's been 4 years - your shoulder has healed as much as it's gonna heal. Another year won't make a difference. How is your assisted ROM (someone lifts/moves your arm, or you do it yourself with your good arm)? Is it any better than your unassisted ROM? If full ROM (relative to your good shoulder) isn't there, I would guess that those multiple injuries have left behind a lot of scar tissue/debris that is getting in the way of things moving smoothly in the joint, in which case, arthroscopic surgery is the quickest way to fix the problem.

If you really don't want to do surgery, get a tennis ball, and start rolling it into the tissues around the shoulder, including the back. Lots of good videos on how to do this. Lean against a wall at first. When that stops being painful, switch to a lacrosse ball. When that stops being painful, sandwich the ball between your body and the ground (warning - this will hurt like a muthafucka). All this massage will help break up adhesions, which, no doubt, you have a ton of. After each session of deep tissue massage, go through range of motion - it should get slightly better. You could also find a massage therapist who specializes in joint injury massage (these people often work with athletes and dancers), and are much better value than physical therapists IMO.

As for lifting, from what I understand, bench press and dips are tough on the AC joint. Pushups and dumbbell bench are easier, but may still be too much depending on your specifics. Now this is going to go against what others have said, but I think the BEST excercise for your shoulder (ONCE YOU HAVE FULL ROM) is the overhead press with strict form (sloppy form is a good way to reinjure yourself). Rippetoe's Starting Strength is a good resource on how to properly do the overhead press.

spot on with ROM first, before strengthening. post op, all i did was ROM for a month. then, slowly moved to strengthening.

Post: #19

(03-06-2012 03:34 PM)assman Wrote:  wolf, you're going to get lots of different opinions on this. The shoulder is a complicated joint and lots of different muscles/tendons/ligaments could be the source of the problem.

I've had a partial RC tear followed several years later by a separated shoulder (AC joint tear, not a dislocation, which people often assume the term 'separated shoulder' refers to). In both cases, PT worked to bring improvement in range of motion (ROM) and strength. In both cases, strength improved more than ROM, which to my way of thinking is suboptimal. If you have good ROM, you can build strength. The converse is not true, and if you push for too much strength without ROM, it's a decent way to get injured. Anyway, in both cases, once PT benefits plateaued, I opted for arthroscopic surgery, and all they really did was clean out the debris, and this, after the week on ice/sling, greatly improved ROM, and from there I could build on strength.

It's been 4 years - your shoulder has healed as much as it's gonna heal. Another year won't make a difference. How is your assisted ROM (someone lifts/moves your arm, or you do it yourself with your good arm)? Is it any better than your unassisted ROM? If full ROM (relative to your good shoulder) isn't there, I would guess that those multiple injuries have left behind a lot of scar tissue/debris that is getting in the way of things moving smoothly in the joint, in which case, arthroscopic surgery is the quickest way to fix the problem.

If you really don't want to do surgery, get a tennis ball, and start rolling it into the tissues around the shoulder, including the back. Lots of good videos on how to do this. Lean against a wall at first. When that stops being painful, switch to a lacrosse ball. When that stops being painful, sandwich the ball between your body and the ground (warning - this will hurt like a muthafucka). All this massage will help break up adhesions, which, no doubt, you have a ton of. After each session of deep tissue massage, go through range of motion - it should get slightly better. You could also find a massage therapist who specializes in joint injury massage (these people often work with athletes and dancers), and are much better value than physical therapists IMO.

As for lifting, from what I understand, bench press and dips are tough on the AC joint. Pushups and dumbbell bench are easier, but may still be too much depending on your specifics. Now this is going to go against what others have said, but I think the BEST excercise for your shoulder (ONCE YOU HAVE FULL ROM) is the overhead press with strict form (sloppy form is a good way to reinjure yourself). Rippetoe's Starting Strength is a good resource on how to properly do the overhead press.

I have full ROM, but the shoulder is weak. I have been doing physical therapy on and off for 4 years but it's hard to stay motivated when you can't do more than 5lb dumbells. Whenever I go over 5lbs my shoulder starts to hurt. I build muscle but not the expense of pain.

My goal is to make my shoulder stronger, but without pain, which I haven't figured out. My injury is a shoulder separation not a shoulder dislocation.

Post: #20

(03-06-2012 05:32 PM)wolf Wrote:  I have full ROM, but the shoulder is weak. I have been doing physical therapy on and off for 4 years but it's hard to stay motivated when you can't do more than 5lb dumbells. Whenever I go over 5lbs my shoulder starts to hurt. I build muscle but not the expense of pain.

My goal is to make my shoulder stronger, but without pain, which I haven't figured out. My injury is a shoulder separation not a shoulder dislocation.

Have you tried deep tissue massage either from a massage therapist or rolling on a ball? If you haven't, roll all aspects of your shoulder and upper back against a tennis ball pinned between you and the wall (lean into the ball/wall). Do this with your arm in different positions so you can expose different muscles to the massage.

Let us know how painful (or not) this is.