Post: #126

(01-22-2018 04:24 PM)El Padrone Wrote:  ^ Nothing, if you keep your nose clean, figuratively and literally.

That's false.

These animals engage in racketeering and will maim and kill innocent business owners, as well as members of those entrepreneur's families, that have nothing to do with the drug trade. They will also do the same to politicians and others attempting to enforce the law, as well as the families of those public servants.

There's cities on the border where 80% or more of the legitimate businesses have shut down due to racketeering. You've got boarded up movie theaters, boarded up night clubs, and boarded up restaurants.

The only legitimate businesses making a killing in these towns are the morgues.

Economies of entire cities have collapsed, main streets filled with architectural showcases and beautifully maintained gardens are now home to collapsing structures surrounded by barren dirt crawling with sunburnt weeds.

An entire generation has had the wonders of youth stolen from them in these cities, what used to be a life full of courtship, socializing, education, and laughing people milling about the "mercados" enjoying soda pop and candied fruits is now one of shuttling quickly from place to place in cars with tinted windows before sundown, only to get home and peer nervously out of your windows every so often. The women talk of "los nervios," while the men do what they can to try to succeed in life without attracting any attention whatsoever.

The frog's been cooked so slowly people like you sometimes spout nonsense like "Nothing, if you keep your nose clean, figuratively and literally."

These animals prey on everyone, young and old, innocent and not, and imbeciles like you provide them moral cover for it.

These places are a f****** wasteland compared to what they were in the 80's and 90's, and you call that destruction "nothing?" The theft of a life free of fear, the theft of legitimate economic opportunities, the theft of national dignity...from an entire generation, is "nothing?"

Get your head out of your a**.

Post: #127

Can't wait for that wall.

Post: #128

Good post Spaniard, you've distilled the essence of the breakdown of the Mexican social fiber, but don't take it personal amigo...

(01-17-2018 03:32 PM)godzilla Wrote:  The diversity argument seems like solid one actually. There is a huge lack of community trust in pretty much all Latin America countries. People usually trust only family and close friends.

You can't build a society when you can't trust its institutions either. In most European countries, I would say generally people trust the police and the court system. If you get robbed in America, the police will chase this guy down and beat his ass for you. In Latin America, they'll probably ignore it or take a bribe from the robber. Big difference culturally.

I'm not familiar with the cultural differences between tribes in Mexico. But the Yucatan, which is one of the poorest regions in Mexico, is also one of the safest areas in Latin America (recently there has been a major uptick). So obviously they're differences.

The most successful countries and societies in the world are those where this element of cultural and institutional trust is the highest. Switzerland, Japan, Scandinavia, the UK (historically speaking, the latter two are facing immigration challenges that are disrupting that cultural harmony.)

If you conducted an experiment with a lost wallet and plotted the % of returns vs GDP, you'd probably find a high level of correlation.


The extreme gang violence in MX has an occult, spiritual element. Underneath the layer of Catholicism, there is a latent hard pagan, almost satanic belief system that gangs and oligarchs have cultivated. The violence and dynamics that Spaniard has described above is eerily similar to that have been taking place in countries like Syria and Boka Haram Africa, those places having been swept by wahhabi death cults. I think this is some kind of a new model for the modern dystopias that the oligarchs have for many parts of the developing world, which if unchecked, would also extend to western urban enclaves.

Post: #129

(01-22-2018 09:15 PM)porscheguy Wrote:  I’d like to believe that but I’m having a hard time. When it’s just business, you shoot the motherfucker, and dump them in an unmarked grave in the jungle. When you take the time to subject the person to insufferable cruelty and pain, it’s not business, it’s personal. The claim is that they’re doing it to send a message. You only do that because you get off on it. If you want to send a message, send the message that Jose and Pedro aren’t coming home again. The only thing you gain by upping the violence is more violence. And contrary to what they think, too much violence is bad for business.

Those are exactly my thoughts. Think about the prohibition and the turf wars going on with the gangs, even the mafia wars in the US are like that.

They usually shoot the guy or the man they have beef with - occasionally an innocent bystander dies.

They don't torture anyone - even if he was a rival, what is this business? Do you think rival gangs will be kinder to you if you did this?

There is a reason why Europeans went from terrible medieval tortures of their POWs and prisoners to simple executions and now only incarcerations.

Humanity begets more humanity while barbarism begets more barbarism.

And I don't mean necessarily the act of killing - sometimes it is justified, "business", war or self-defense. But you don't have to be a sadistic psychopathic lunatic about it.

Post: #130

^ "Humanity begets more humanity while barbarity does same". Agreed Zel. The group the tortured guys belonged to did some barbaric shit to two members of Los Viagras before decapitating them, thats the settling of accounts we see in the infamous video now. Mexico was set on a bad path by the Presidente Santa Anna long ago with his power thirst. Every action has consequences, this is wisdom we may live by.

Post: #131

(01-23-2018 03:39 AM)El Padrone Wrote:  ^ "Humanity begets more humanity while barbarity does same". Agreed Zel. The group the tortured guys belonged to did some barbaric shit to two members of Los Viagras before decapitating them, thats the settling of accounts we see in the infamous video now. Mexico was set on a bad path by the Presidente Santa Anna long ago with his power thirst. Every action has consequences, this is wisdom we may live by.

There's always some excuse with Mexicans and the drug war, isn't there? I can't count on how many times I've heard them blame the CIA, or Americans for buying the drugs, or racism for keeping Mexicans too poor to make a living, except for selling drugs... Now it's fucking Santa Anna's fault, a guy who died in 1876, three years before Edison invented the fucking light bulb.

If Mexico could find a way to export excuses it would be the richest country on Earth.

Post: #132

(01-22-2018 11:25 PM)Spaniard88 Wrote:  That's false.

These animals engage in racketeering and will maim and kill innocent business owners, as well as members of those entrepreneur's families, that have nothing to do with the drug trade. They will also do the same to politicians and others attempting to enforce the law, as well as the families of those public servants.

Google "Allende, Coahuila" if you havnt. They rode into town, took everyone who had their targets last name, and drove them to the desert. Hundreds of families massacred because someone ratted someone who was just trying to "keep his nose clean and stay out of it"

Videos like that are the reason I wake up sweating in the middle of the night. I dont care how tough you think you are, please, dont click or share the links. Not worthy, keep your sanity and your soul.

Post: #133

Mexico is the definition of a failed state, in a country where the morals of the people are corrupt all politicians will be corrupt too in one way or the other. Those who are elected are the reflection of the people.

There is no hope unless some dictator takes power and rules with an iron fist like Pinochet.

Those drug cartels can't do business without support from the locals, no fucking way.

Post: #134

(01-23-2018 05:02 PM)Blancpain Wrote:  Mexico is the definition of a failed state, in a country where the morals of the people are corrupt all politicians will be corrupt too in one way or the other. Those who are elected are the reflection of the people.

Hillary Clinton. Popular vote.

And 911 is wrong about it being pointless to torture your enemies before killing them. To dirt-worlders life is cheap, miserable and death is not something they particularly fear. But being tortured and dismembered is still something that resonates with them.

If your people are primitive and shit then they will fall in line behind the cruellest person in the region. If their choice is to bow to the man who would otherwise kill them or the man who would torture, mutilate AND kill them then they will bow to the latter. Simple, really.

Like all natural ecosystems, nature finds a balance and those that survive by definition do what they must. Drug cartels do not survive and then behave in the way they behave for kicks. They survive because of the way they behave.

To these assholes work is work, whether it's digging a shallow grave or carving up some local peasant. If they didn't have to do this stuff then they wouldn't bother. They're all as lazy as the rest. They're not Dexter. They're the same as all the other chumps. Only their work detail differs.

Post: #135

^^^^ Hey I'm often wrong, but that wasn't me this time Len!

In fact, I've argued the opposite, along your lines, about terror serving a function, very much along the same lines as other death cults like ISIS use it.

Furthermore, I've also pointed out the strong religious/demonic dimension of their ultraviolence, the cartels are literally a death cult, devotees of Santa Muerte ("holy death"). This article covers that angle very well:

Quote:"The worship of Santa Muerte (Holy Death, or Saint Death) is widespread, especially among the drug cartels, but it's also rapidly growing among the general population in Mexico and in Hispanic communities in the U.S.," he said.

Human blood is sometimes offered to gain the favor of this idol, which is depicted in illustrations and statues as a skeleton wearing a hooded robe, holding a scythe or globe. Some link Santa Muerte to the Aztec goddess of the dead, Mictecacihuatl.

"Beheadings, like the ones we see the cartels doing, were part of ancient Aztec human-sacrifice rituals. The adoration of death and the use of witchcraft have been practiced in Mexico for longer than anyone knows, and are regaining popularity," he said.

A large majority of the Texas Rio Grande Valley's population is Catholic, but the Catholicism here is mixed up with ancient pagan rites, witchcraft, false religions like Santeria, Voodoo, Palo Mayombe, and other demonic cults, and the worship of false saints like 'Saint' Death and Jesus Malverde," Elijah said.

"Basically, it all adds up to Satan worship, which feeds the violence and every other problem, like poverty, drought, hunger, chronic ill health, lack of jobs, and hopelessness," he said.

From the syncretism here along the border, from the mixture of Catholicism, witchcraft and idolatry, come blasphemies that always arise whenever something is exalted above God. Worshiping anyone, anything, or any idol instead of the Lord God Almighty brings escalating violence, mutilations, bombings, murders and slaughters for the sake of money, power and pride.

"Mexico is now the greatest exporter of cocaine, more than Columbia. In 2004, the mayor of Matamoros (directly across the border from Brownsville, Texas) officially recognized Santa Muerte as a saint. When the local seat of authority is recognizing a demonic cult as legitimate, all hell breaks loose. There are several Satanist churches operating openly in Matamoros that used to have to hide their existence. The local population supports them. Also in 2004, videos of al-Qaida beheadings went viral on the Internet, and now that old Aztec human-sacrifice ritual is being carried out all across Mexico."

Elijah said the unclean spirits controlling the cartels have slithered into many levels of Mexican society and have also invaded the church on both sides of the border.

"When anyone begins dabbling in the occult and witchcraft, it brings spiritual defilement by attracting unclean spirits. You can't be messing around with the devil and say you're a Christian. Here in the Valley, the spirit of divination is taking over pulpits through false prophets and false prophetesses who are prophesying over people, laying on hands, causing all sorts of problems.

In addition to the almost 50,000 estimated to have died in Mexico's drug violence, another 10,000 have disappeared without a trace. Many of these, Elijah is convinced, are the victims of Satanic rituals that require human sacrifice.

"There's lots of really gruesome stuff going on."

Many of the murders and mutilations are so horrific and unwarranted, he said, there's no reasonable explanation other than to conclude they're inspired by the devil himself.

"There's even a counterfeit Lord's Supper where instead of bread and wine, human flesh and blood are used."

Elijah said such abominations aren't taking place only in Mexico.

"Come visit McAllen, Texas, sometime and take a look at the witchcraft shops operating on Main Street. They must have plenty of customers and be making good money to be able to afford the rent on such prime locations.

https://www.christianpost.com/news/mexic...nce-68636/


Another good article from aleteia.org:

Quote: Fr. Jorge Luiz Zarazúa, a Mexican specialist in cults, explains that the devotion to Santa Muerte is tied to magic and the occult whose syncretistic origin is far from the faith of the Church. It is a devotion more closely related to witchcraft and satanism than to popular Catholic piety.

According to the latest news regarding the devotion to Santa Muerte, everything indicates that it is a breeding pool of sectarian cults along satanic lines, in which the power of evil gives meaning to their lifestyle and goes hand in hand with crime and the most aberrant practices.

https://aleteia.org/2015/05/27/child-mur...anic-cult/


This subject was also covered in this thread:

/thread-57043...pid1348494

Post: #136

How come everyone here suddenly trusts what the fucking media says about MX when they dont trust the same damn media when it reports on fucking Trump? Im tired of saying what the fucking press reports is FAR from the daily experience of the average Juan. Sure, a few videos emerge but they were meant to terrify and spread in the first place by the sick bastards dedicated to giving you the fucking drugs you demand for. I know for a fucking fact that the mafia does not just kill its enemies with 2 bullets like fucking choirboys. Does anyone call NY a shithole because of it? Oh, and Chitown is a fucking paradise with clowns giving kids ice cream. MX has problems in the border areas, sure, but so fucking what?

Post: #137

(01-24-2018 02:03 AM)El Padrone Wrote:  How come everyone here suddenly trusts what the fucking media says about MX when they dont trust the same damn media when it reports on fucking Trump? Im tired of saying what the fucking press reports is FAR from the daily experience of the average Juan? Sure, a few videos emerge but they were meant to terrify and spread in the first place. I know for a fucking fact that the mafia does not just kill its enemies with 2 bullets like fucking choirboys. Does anyone call NY a shithole because of it? Oh, and Chitown is a fucking paradise with clowns giving kids ice cream. MX has problems in the border areas, sure, but so fucking what?

"It's the media!" "The mafia is just as bad!" "It's only a few videos!" "So maybe Mexico has problems in the border areas, but so what?"

I'm telling you guys, excuses are the national industry of Mexico. Absolutely amazing.

Post: #138

Padrone, didn't it used to be a lot safer 10, 20 years ago? 60,000 dead is whole a lot of people, we;re talking Clinton Body Count levels here! Maybe you've just gotten desensitized.

NY used to be a shithole in the 70s, it still had a bit of an edge in the 80s but it's gentrified and gotten a whole lot safer since.

Post: #139

(01-24-2018 01:09 AM)911 Wrote:  ^^^^ Hey I'm often wrong, but that wasn't me this time Len!

In fact, I've argued the opposite, along your lines, about terror serving a function, very much along the same lines as other death cults like ISIS use it.

Again - with the 911 Muslim defense force. Islam is a death cult by itself. ISIS did not torture the people they caught any more than what has been written down in the texts. Mohammed cut off the hands and feet, blinded them and let them die miserable in the desert, burning was also mentioned in some instances - throwing off the roof and stoning as well.

ISIS just adheres to the texts while the Saudis and Iranians hang the gays or decapitate a woman who was accused of adultery.

By the way - even I who lividly hates Islam (not the people born in Islam, but the negative ideology) would rather want to be captured by ISIS than by a Mexican cartel. The edicts of Islam are simply what they are - they don't come up with new methods every week to inflict pain on their victims. The methods are known since over a millennia.

Post: #140

(01-24-2018 01:09 AM)911 Wrote:  ^^^^ Hey I'm often wrong, but that wasn't me this time Len!
...

My apologies. I meant porscheguy. I suppose you can see how I got my circuits crossed on that one.

Post: #141

(01-23-2018 03:38 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

(01-23-2018 03:39 AM)El Padrone Wrote:  ^ "Humanity begets more humanity while barbarity does same". Agreed Zel. The group the tortured guys belonged to did some barbaric shit to two members of Los Viagras before decapitating them, thats the settling of accounts we see in the infamous video now. Mexico was set on a bad path by the Presidente Santa Anna long ago with his power thirst. Every action has consequences, this is wisdom we may live by.

There's always some excuse with Mexicans and the drug war, isn't there? I can't count on how many times I've heard them blame the CIA, or Americans for buying the drugs, or racism for keeping Mexicans too poor to make a living, except for selling drugs... Now it's fucking Santa Anna's fault, a guy who died in 1876, three years before Edison invented the fucking light bulb.

If Mexico could find a way to export excuses it would be the richest country on Earth.

I repped you for this. I've learned over the years that 90% of peoples' problems, whether individual or collective, is the result of their own pổor choices and a total lack of self-criticism.

Post: #142

(01-24-2018 02:44 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  By the way - even I who lividly hates Islam (not the people born in Islam, but the negative ideology) would rather want to be captured by ISIS than by a Mexican cartel. The edicts of Islam are simply what they are - they don't come up with new methods every week to inflict pain on their victims. The methods are known since over a millennia.

Post: #143

(01-24-2018 02:03 AM)El Padrone Wrote:  How come everyone here suddenly trusts what the fucking media says about MX when they dont trust the same damn media when it reports on fucking Trump? Im tired of saying what the fucking press reports is FAR from the daily experience of the average Juan.

Correct.

(01-23-2018 03:38 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  There's always some excuse with Mexicans and the drug war, isn't there? I can't count on how many times I've heard them blame the CIA, or Americans for buying the drugs, or racism for keeping Mexicans too poor to make a living, except for selling drugs... Now it's fucking Santa Anna's fault, a guy who died in 1876, three years before Edison invented the fucking light bulb.

There's some excuse with Mexicans for everything. Late to work? It's the fault of the transportation system. A store doesn't have the product you need? The supplier didn't deliver it this time. Taking actions to prevent problems is not a big part of their collective mindset and this has a chain-reaction effect.

Mexicans really do seem to worry less about what might go wrong (no plan B). This fatalistic way of thinking is not an entirely bad as a strategy for getting through your day. There's a culture of looking the other way and keeping your head down. This is why long-term problems often don't get solved.

1. In front of foreigners, ordinary Mexicans may criticize US policy but this is mostly posturing and positioning. They are sensitive about the image of their country abroad to an absurd degree.

2. Within Mexico, ordinary Mexicans overwhelmingly blame their own political class and the elite, not the US, for what goes wrong (for doing nothing, or for corruption). Almost all Mexicans are on the same page with this, whatever their class background.

3. In private, Mexicans acknowledge that their own culture is to blame for Mexico not being a more advanced and prosperous nation. They'll either blame the lower classes for low education, work ethic, poor nutrition, consumption of mass entertainment and so on; or they'll blame the elites for exploiting workers, ripping off the country and not caring about their own country.

4. There's a type of left-wing activist ('chairos') who bang on about the US and the Mexican political elite. They're vocal but they're a small minority. The presidential election is underway (the vote is in July) and the populist candidate seems to be doing well so far.

Post: #144

I do get where ElPadrone is coming from though.

Having first hand experience of visiting relatives in an area where there's a lot of cartel activity, all a normal citizen can do is just look the other way, and live your life. It kind of reminds me after 9/11 when Americans were scared to ride on planes for fear of terrorist attacks. Not only did Americans started to fly again, but life went on and people were not going to not fly again because of it.

Same thing applies with the average Mexican citizen who lives in places controlled by cartels. One can't do nothing else but live their life and look the other way. You can always call the police when you see a narco who kidnaps somebody, but that doesn't work because the police are bought off by the cartel and if they find out you snitched, you're dead. Mexicans do not trust their own law enforcement and almost always never report cartel activity to the cops, because it could mean your own life.

So what's a normal person to do? Try not to get involved and hope for the best. There's a saying with Mexicans that goes "El que nade debe nada teme" literally translated "One who does not owe anything does not fear anything" or "If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear" If you don't get involved with them your life expectancy is high, but once you do get involved, your life expectancy drops.

When I went I literally saw billboards and signs on the roads that said in spanish "Don't get involved with drug cartels you pay with your life".

There have been some heroes in this drug war in Mexico and many go unreported. One case was that one doctor that was mentioned earlier in this thread. There have also been many mayors who have fought back against Drug Lords in their towns but many have failed and were killed. I listed a list of all the politicians who were killed in the drug war earlier.

Post: #145

Don't whitewash those ''normal'' citizens, if there was no support from the pepole then there is no way those cartels can exist. How come we don't have any cartels in New York?

Those corrupt cops are probably from the same town too, they are turning a blind eye on this shit for a couple of extra pesos.

Post: #146

(01-24-2018 11:22 AM)Blancpain Wrote:  Don't whitewash those ''normal'' citizens, if there was no support from the pepole then there is no way those cartels can exist. How come we don't have any cartels in New York?

Those corrupt cops are probably from the same town too, they are turning a blind eye on this shit for a couple of extra pesos.

Well yes. Cartels use many tactics to get the local populace on their side.

El Chapo was an expert on this. He would pay for roads and bridges to be built, hospitals, schools, would pay for peoples meals at restaurants, paid for peoples Quincenera parties, paid for local carnivals and fairs, gave ranchers grain for their animals, etc... It was reported that when El Chapo married his 3rd wife, there were many governors who were there and the Mexican military were his guards.

So when a regular person sees this he thinks "hmm, this Chapo guy isn't so bad after all." El Chapo is literally a folk hero in his home state of Sinaloa. But what they don't realize is that yes he's doing all these great things, but only to get you on his side. That's how he got the locals to support him. Hell he escaped twice from maximum security prison in Mexico because he bought off everybody in the prison.

Its all a fucked up situation. Corruption from all levels of society, from the Elites, to the politicians, to law enforcement, to the populace. A big mess of a cycle that will be impossible to get rid of.

So at the end of the day, all one can really do is mind their own business and live their own life.

There is a good series on El Chapo that explains everything about the situation in Mexico. Its very interesting and I recommend you guys check it out. Here is a trailer:

Post: #147

^

Yep this is exactly why Mexico is a failed state, escaping from a maximum security prison? This shit doesn't even happen in places like Cambodia. Many people even in developed countries look up to these drug lords as if they are some sort of hero, for me they are no different than terrorists. When I went to Medellin I did no visit Escobars grave for this very reason, If I had I'd only go to take a piss. They help bunch of poor people as a part of PR, but behind closed doors they kill people just to send a message, just for a fucking message. How cruel is that?

Now If I was a dictator of Mexico I'd send a informal message to those guards in the prison that in the event Chapo escapes, everyone will have a bullet in their head, lets see him escape now.

This is why countries like Mexico do not deserve democracy! If Mexico wasn't divided into states and there was a central government with a decent authoritarian leader, the gangs would be tackled way more efficiently.

Post: #148

(01-24-2018 02:03 AM)El Padrone Wrote:  How come everyone here suddenly trusts what the fucking media says about MX when they dont trust the same damn media when it reports on fucking Trump? Im tired of saying what the fucking press reports is FAR from the daily experience of the average Juan. Sure, a few videos emerge but they were meant to terrify and spread in the first place by the sick bastards dedicated to giving you the fucking drugs you demand for. I know for a fucking fact that the mafia does not just kill its enemies with 2 bullets like fucking choirboys. Does anyone call NY a shithole because of it? Oh, and Chitown is a fucking paradise with clowns giving kids ice cream. MX has problems in the border areas, sure, but so fucking what?

The fact there is barely any media coverage of Mexican cartels is why we trust Trump (who gets hated on 24/7) and not your bullshit about Mexico. Mexcio's crime and suffering isn't given nearly enough attention that it deserves, because otherwise Trump would be even more popular with building a wall.

Post: #149

Perhaps many are analyzing the Mexican society and culture exclusively through the lens of their own when it comes to its internal functioning.

From a practical and pragmatic POV when it concerns say immigration and commerce with, then definitely you have very valid concerns and questions.
But when it comes to how such a society or nation handles its affairs internally then perhaps you should try to reflect a bit more on the historical facts on how it came to be until its contemporary Form.

I have myself very little actual knowledge of it but I will risk stating that despite their not very effective embrace of republican values during their respective independence processes most Latin American societies never truly renounced their colonial if not European medieval (coupled with respective native customs depending on the places) structures. Hence why even more cosmopolitan countries like Argentina and Uruguay almost inevitably ended up under the effective control of "strong men" leaders.

Post: #150

^ wall? That con(who married a post wall whore) (but no worries, he's the ultimate alphamale)can build a wall to his hearts content! Its fake news that he once said MX will pay for the wall.But many will say " oh, he'll make mexico pay later!". Trump is a great "dealmaker" who spends his "executive time" doing frantic behind the scenes work! I wonder what the little guys he stiffed of their pay think of that or those who invested in his crappy venturesor his own terminally ill fucking nephew he had cut out of pops inheritance. .
I also wonder how many inches of Ryan and Schumers cock he took in before he had a gag reflex just to get his funding! I love tRump too to tell you the truth. I wonder if he'd fellate Enrique Pena to get a honeybee in his behind.