Post: #73926

Suits Wrote:OK, so the media is complicit in covering it all up, so the guilty democrats are just going to skate.

Great.

Remind me what the point is of posting "this is big!" every time something that would lead to anything doesn't actually occur?

At this point, what difference does it make?

It makes a world of difference. Just like there's a world of difference between "Nothing is occurring" and "Plenty of things are occurring."

But I already explained to you exactly what is occurring. And you totally didn't get it.

Do you want me to repeat myself, even though you totally didn't get it the first time?

Post: #73927

(01-19-2018 02:24 AM)TooFineAPoint Wrote:  ....
Yes, like you guys I think the libertarian party is a joke.

There are several reasons that the most popular libertarian figure in modern America (Ron Paul) chose to run as a Republican instead of a libertarian.

The Mises Institute which I quoted in reply to Leonard is one of (if not the most) important libertarian organization in the USA. Maybe they share that with Reason, but for a while anyway their website traffic was nuts.

The article title for those who missed it was "Open Borders Are An Assault On Private Property".

The term open borders in the sense you guys are using it is basically the forcing (or at least heavily aiding and abetting) of foreigners into a country in a way that allows the migrant's supposed "rights" to trump those of the host culture. That's something quite different than not stifling the free movement of people.

The views most often expressed on the forum are pretty close (as far as I can tell) to how one would protect one's own house -- you get to decide who comes and goes. But you don't say "fuck it, none of my family ever get to leave, and we shall never receive visitors". Each movement is weighed for benefits.

In that sense, this is much closer to what the Mises folks are saying than this supposed libertarian open-borders boogeyman.

You can't have it both ways. You can't say that "American libertarians are for open borders" (in the negative way you mean it), then turn around and say I don't speak for all libertarians when I disagree. You also don't speak for all libertarians.

So we're both left with quite a bit of conjecture.

I just think it's funny, because the Republican party talks a big game about being for minimal government and traditional family values, but I sure don't see it reflected in their platforms or actions.

Look at Trump having to fight most of his own party almost as much as the Dems.

Since when do political party platforms actually stand for what an ideological group of people actually believe?

I like Leonard's distinction. Modern neckbeard leftertarians may want the kind of open borders that make us all shudder.

What you say may be a nice distinction to make, but good luck trying t get actual Libertarians outside of Mises Institute to even consider it. I have known a half-dozen Libertarian party members, people in leadership roles in the state party at different times. Each one has instantly and reflexively accused me of hating "brown people" as the single and only reason that I could possibly oppose doing away with borders entirely.

Mind you, these people each had been personal friends. But touch on the immigration issue in any way that doesn't support tearing down borders and you're a racist and a 'statist'. There is no sense of proportion, no tolerance or consideration of other views, and no good-faith willingness to discuss the issue at all. Only ridiculously exaggerated name-calling.

Immigration to a Libertarian is like abortion to a Democrat: a pillar of their political religion that one must accept and never dare question. There can be no compromises, no hairsplitting, no consideration of other points of view, there can only be instant knee-jerk unthinking condemnation in the strongest, most malicious possible terms of those who dissent in any way with dogma.

This is why I don't trust Libertarians despite sharing a lot of their economic views. They're nuts.

Post: #73928

In what sounds like the preamble to a joke (but isn't a joke at all), an Australian guy, a Chinese guy, a Black Canadian guy, and one American citizen are wholly skeptical of President Trump's hyper-long-term operation to indict many members of multiple American intelligence communities.

Should I explain the situation in words they'll understand, or should I not?

Post: #73929

Alsos Wrote:This is why I don't trust Libertarians despite sharing a lot of their economic views. They're nuts.

The CATO Institute is a leading American libertarian think tank. Asking libertarians how many Mexicans work for the CATO Institute is funny.

Post: #73930

Snowden is all about getting the memo released, and says Trump should veto the FISA renewal if it turns out its recent renewal was based partly on acts of fraud and abuse.

If it gets released and concerns turn out to be true, benefit. If it's released and it turns out the Congressmen were full of it, also a benefit. Fools shouldn't lie about stuff like that, but I don't think that they are.

It will be fantastic to get this memo released, but regardless, Trump will not veto FISA even if there were abuses since on balance, it can be used to catch terrorists. By extension, FISA benefits Israel. Anyone being honest with the facts and not paranoid about being called "anti Semitic" knows that AIPAC owns every president since the organization was founded. They will never allow FISA to get kneecapped if it puts Israel even slightly more at risk.

Post: #73931

(01-19-2018 11:48 AM)Alsos Wrote:  Immigration to a Libertarian is like abortion to a Democrat: a pillar of their political religion that one must accept and never dare question. There can be no compromises, no hairsplitting, no consideration of other points of view, there can only be instant knee-jerk unthinking condemnation in the strongest, most malicious possible terms of those who dissent in any way with dogma.

That, and pot legalization. Ann Coulter was going to run for a senate seat in CT under the libertarian party in 2000 to try to defeat leftoid RINO Chris Shays but they wouldn't accept her unless she fully came out and supported legal pot. Rather than drive directly off the cliff, she refused to get into that car at all. They blew a pretty good chance of getting a major candidate in the fight all because of political dogma. Zero sense of the big picture.

Her quote calling libertarians pussies is priceless:

Quote:"Libertarians and pot!" says an exasperated Coulter. "This is why people think libertarians are pussies. We're living in a country that is 70 percent socialist. The government is taking 60 percent of your money. They're taking care of your health care, of your pensions, they're telling you who you can hire, what the regulations are gonna be...and you want to suck to your little liberal friends and say, 'Oh, we want to legalize pot. You know, if you were a little more manly, you'd tell the liberals what your position on employment discrimination is."

Quote:This is why I don't trust Libertarians despite sharing a lot of their economic views. They're nuts.

Amen. Even when Ron Paul was engaging in much needed focus on the national debt, a few minutes into it and the next thing you know you've wandered into a discussion about legalizing heroin - WTF?! No wonder everybody laughs at them.

Post: #73932

I know it has been a few days, but I finally got around to watching the briefing by the President's physician. He said that Trump's resting heart rate was 68 bpm and blood pressure was 122/74. That's very good. I do a lot of cardio and my resting heart rate is about 55-65 and my blood pressure is only a little lower than that. The doctor said that Trump's lifelong abstinence from alcohol and tobacco was likely a factor, along with "good genetics" which is making me feel like I should go back on the wagon again.





At 23 minutes one of the reporters makes a snide comment after the doctor said he though Trump would be healthy throughout his second term if re-elected and the doctor immediately stopped the questioning and addressed it completely, silencing the reporter. You could really see the air come out of the press corps as they realized they no longer had a "Trump is unhealthy" narrative they could promote.

Post: #73933

(01-19-2018 10:03 AM)Suits Wrote:  

(01-19-2018 09:55 AM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

Suits Wrote:Agreed. If this was a game changer, why not sit back, pour yourself a beer and wait for the deep swamp state to drain itself?

Why spend time on the Internet repeatedly posting "this is big!"?

Because the media is complicit in covering up all Democrat crimes.

And because this particular string of crimes leads to one important target: Barrack Obama.

Are the American people psychologically ready to indict Obama? Not yet. But as President Trump continues to prove that Government can be beneficent, he will also slowly build the case that Obama and his cronies need to be arrested. This case will be built day by day, street corner by street corner, one person at a time.

-----

Oh, and asserting that "the swamp will drain itself" is just

OK, so the media is complicit in covering it all up, so the guilty democrats are just going to skate.

Great.

Remind me what the point is of posting "this is big!" every time something that would lead to anything doesn't actually occur?

At this point, what difference does it make?

I am busy with business stuff, but I can take a break and answer this.

I posted about this way back about how big of a deal this is, and so far there is every indication that this is going to change the country forever, much like how Watergate did.

Except for one thing. This is even bigger than Watergate.

There will be at least one new law after this is over with.

Watergate was so damaging to Republicans and conservatives in America, that Gerald Ford could not even beat a skinny low energy Georgian governor named Jimmy Carter. They thought back then that the race would be close, but it ended up being 297-240 beatdown. Up till then Conservatives ran the country for a long time with JFK being the only president that disrupted what is technically conservatism, and even he was fairly conservative and racist, time has revealed. Lyndon B. Johnson who took over after he was killed was a deep South Democrat and very conservative for most things.

Some Dems fought against Jimmy Carter in the primary, because they thought he would be another Deep South conservative, and he ended up carrying Southern states in the election, because it looked like he would be a compromise for conservative voters that used to support Nixon. He ended up be pretty damn liberal to everyone's surprise, not to mention other issues, and got bounced by Reagan after 4 years. Basically everyone realized that even if Nixon was a crook, we fucked up by putting a wimpy Democrat in office.

Now I bring all this up because this time, the Watergate-ish offenders are Democrats and they just got blown out in the election and lost badly to begin with. We are not looking to see how Pence can win re-election like with Gerald Ford. We are looking at the loser party, using the FBI, CIA, and DOJ to get embroiled in this massive Watergate-ish scandal attempting to put forth a candidate to challenge a standing president for 2020 that was the target.

We are looking at the equivalent of an NCAA Death Penalty for an American Political Party. For those of you that do not follow or watch American College Football, just about every university that ever got the death penalty by the NCAA for scandals and violations, pretty much never ever recovered. The Death Penalty typically means no football for one year at least and they take away scholarships. College Football programs are only as good as their current momentum. Take it away and the school will take decades to recover from the damage, if ever, with the only exception being super rich alumni stepping in to fix it.

If any political party takes a hit this hard, it could take them 5-10 years to recover, probably more if Obama/Obama Cabinet members or a Clinton gets indicted or charged either in the same or similar scandal (Clinton Foundation Investigation). Do not forget the DNC is currently under an FBI investigation for other things.

There were people, newspapers, pundits, and editorials that dropped news stories back in the 70s saying that Watergate was a big nothing burger too. When the axe came down, they got blown away hardcore just like the Republican party at the time did. Gerald Ford suffered partly because of poor conservative turnout too. This too is going to massively affect the midterm elections.

The bottom line is that someone is going to jail.

Actually Pound-Me-In-The-Ass federal prison (not a mere state prison).

It might be just Peter. It could be just 3 dudes. It could be 20. Comey might even go too. Lynch could go. Susan Rice could go. Obama himself? Possible, but I somehow doubt it, might depend upon if these women flip on him because they are scared of a Federal Prison. You can easily bet on at least one person striking a deal for immunity to flip on the others.

This is not mere politics anymore. Some people abused our secret terrorism court warrant system just so that they could wiretap a presidential candidate and worked with an MI6 guy to forge the probable cause evidence. That's very illegal. That's not an opinion. This is a fucking crime.

I took the time to dig out all possible federal charges that are likely to be handed down and the ones that apply to this case, as well as the Clinton email case that Peter obstructed.

1. Sedition
2. Treason
3. Election Tampering
4. Obstruction (Court Orders, Justice, and Criminal Investigations)
5. Counts of Perjury/Filing False evidence
6. Federal Civil Rights Violations
7. Fraud Against the Government
8. Possession of False Papers to Defraud the U.S.
9. Public Corruption Crimes
10. RICO (possible but could be too broad)
11. Searches Without Warrant
12. Unauthorized Removal of Classified Documents
13. Destruction of Records in Federal Investigations
14. Conspiracy
15. Conveying False Information
16. Computer/Hacking Crimes (possibly at play)

Still think someone is not going to jail? Peter Strozk might catch half of these just by himself. Many of these charges carry at least 5 years prison time, some are 10-20 years, and one carries up to the death penalty. This is serious stuff folks.

Steele might even get extradited, but I can see the UK trying to block it, which could trigger another large political mess with a major ally. I cannot even predict how bad that could end up being.

Anyway, this will be a major test for our judicial system if they can successfully bring all these charges to all those involved. It is not rocket science, but bringing the cases is going to take a ton of long hours and hard work getting all the facts together to present to a grand jury and then to successfully argue the case in court. This will not be quickly done.

Oh yeah, this time, Trump will not be giving a pardon to the perps either. Ford pardoned Nixon, which no doubt affected his ability to get re-elected. He did not want the country to suffer but it backfired badly. Reagan pardoned one of the burglars. Dems would have to wait for another Democrat president to pardon Peter and Obama's gang. If Obama ends up needing a pardon that deserves it's own thread to discuss the advantages and disadvantages of that. We can cross that hill if/when we get there.

Post: #73934

(01-19-2018 12:11 PM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  Snowden is all about getting the memo released, and says Trump should veto the FISA renewal if it turns out its recent renewal was based partly on acts of fraud and abuse.

If it gets released and concerns turn out to be true, benefit. If it's released and it turns out the Congressmen were full of it, also a benefit. Fools shouldn't lie about stuff like that, but I don't think that they are.

It will be fantastic to get this memo released, but regardless, Trump will not veto FISA even if there were abuses since on balance, it can be used to catch terrorists. By extension, FISA benefits Israel. Anyone being honest with the facts and not paranoid about being called "anti Semitic" knows that AIPAC owns every president since the organization was founded. They will never allow FISA to get kneecapped if it puts Israel even slightly more at risk.

If the news about the abuses come out before he signs it, completely dominating the news cycle, he can do what we call a pocket veto. That means he can put the bill into his pocket and decide to sign it later on, like when the heat dies down a bit. That is probably the textbook move for a typical politician.

Knowing him, he probably will sign it, but he is likely going to ask all heads of those departments for assurances that they will not abuse the system, then let them go away and do their jobs, with that gaze that if they fuck up again, their all fired.

Trump is too much of a "Work Boss" and much less of a politician to utilize tactics like the pocket veto.

Post: #73935

(01-19-2018 11:53 AM)MMX2010 Wrote:  In what sounds like the preamble to a joke (but isn't a joke at all), an Australian guy, a Chinese guy, a Black Canadian guy, and one American citizen are wholly skeptical of President Trump's hyper-long-term operation to indict many members of multiple American intelligence communities.

Should I explain the situation in words they'll understand, or should I not?

No, because Trump cannot indict anyone. American presidents are not kings.

If they do not like the post I provided above, then that's on them. The information is there.

After that we all have to spectate and see how it turns out. Some people cringe at a movie where someone may cheer at the same scene.

Life is funny like that.

It is what it is.

Post: #73936

@TravelerKai

You already know this, but the "Democrats spied on Trump" story has two parts.

The first part is that the Democrats spied on Candidate Trump right up until he was elected. They did this by abusing FBI 702 About Queries. This first part was ended right around the time Trump was elected, when Admiral Mike Rogers discovered the plot, and told Trump - who put a stop to it.

The second part was explained by you here, "Some people abused our secret terrorism court warrant system just so that they could wiretap a presidential candidate and worked with an MI6 guy to forge the probable cause evidence. That's very illegal. That's not an opinion. This is a fucking crime."

In other words, the Steele Dossier was an instantaneous reaction to getting the FBI 702 About Queries stopped. They got caught illegally spying on the President, but rather than going away, they doubled down and spied on the President again.

What's their explanation? "We thought Trump was in bed with the Russians." No, you didn't. You lied about Trump being in bed with the Russians in order to spy on Trump.

Do they even have a good one?

And what will they do when Republicans like Jim Jordan and Matt Gaetz realize, "If I wanted to run for President four years from now, after an assumed Hillary victory in 2016, what lies would they have made up about me?"

And what will they do when American conservatives realize, "President Trump is a big scary man with tons of money. What chance should I have had against a weaponized Intelligence Community that convicts people (in secret!) of crimes?"

Post: #73937

(01-19-2018 01:22 PM)MMX2010 Wrote:  @TravelerKai

You already know this, but the "Democrats spied on Trump" story has two parts.

The first part is that the Democrats spied on Candidate Trump right up until he was elected. They did this by abusing FBI 702 About Queries. This first part was ended right around the time Trump was elected, when Admiral Mike Rogers discovered the plot, and told Trump - who put a stop to it.

The second part was explained by you here, "Some people abused our secret terrorism court warrant system just so that they could wiretap a presidential candidate and worked with an MI6 guy to forge the probable cause evidence. That's very illegal. That's not an opinion. This is a fucking crime."

In other words, the Steele Dossier was an instantaneous reaction to getting the FBI 702 About Queries stopped. They got caught illegally spying on the President, but rather than going away, they doubled down and spied on the President again.

What's their explanation? "We thought Trump was in bed with the Russians." No, you didn't. You lied about Trump being in bed with the Russians in order to spy on Trump.

Do they even have a good one?

And what will they do when Republicans like Jim Jordan and Matt Gaetz realize, "If I wanted to run for President four years from now, after an assumed Hillary victory in 2016, what lies would they have made up about me?"

And what will they do when American conservatives realize, "President Trump is a big scary man with tons of money. What chance should I have had against a weaponized Intelligence Community that convicts people (in secret!) of crimes?"

Well said.

Quote:They got caught illegally spying on the President, but rather than going away, they doubled down and spied on the President again.

This part is key because of the way they did that, it demonstrates conspiracy. If they claim it was actionable intelligence that had legitimacy, the dates are going to screw over Peter and Comey, based upon the times Comey claims they (the FBI) knew the document was not any good.

Let's see if they can keep their lies straight between the 3-5 people we know about, not counting other agents we do not know about yet. Will the NSA staff on the witness stand help them lie too? LOL!

Those chances are about as good as trying to keep a lie from one Filipina girl with two other Filipina girls as your alibi. Good luck with that shit.

Post: #73938

I "literally can't even"

Post: #73939

Trump Derangement Syndrome is a funny thing. Wait until people are getting charged or arrested and liberals start trying to make up shit that Trump is directing all the charges and arrests. If someone black like Lynch, Rice, or Obama gets in trouble, the Congressional Black Caucus will try to impeach Trump again, and very likely black athletes/entertainers like Lebron will cry racism and pull race card hard.

The hysteria will be off the charts insane.

Post: #73940

Goddamit with this memo #teamwaitandsee

Post: #73941

(01-19-2018 12:54 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

(01-19-2018 10:03 AM)Suits Wrote:  

(01-19-2018 09:55 AM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

Suits Wrote:Agreed. If this was a game changer, why not sit back, pour yourself a beer and wait for the deep swamp state to drain itself?

Why spend time on the Internet repeatedly posting "this is big!"?

Because the media is complicit in covering up all Democrat crimes.

And because this particular string of crimes leads to one important target: Barrack Obama.

Are the American people psychologically ready to indict Obama? Not yet. But as President Trump continues to prove that Government can be beneficent, he will also slowly build the case that Obama and his cronies need to be arrested. This case will be built day by day, street corner by street corner, one person at a time.

-----

Oh, and asserting that "the swamp will drain itself" is just

OK, so the media is complicit in covering it all up, so the guilty democrats are just going to skate.

Great.

Remind me what the point is of posting "this is big!" every time something that would lead to anything doesn't actually occur?

At this point, what difference does it make?

We are looking at the equivalent of an NCAA Death Penalty for an American Political Party.

You had me at "Death Penalty for the Democrats"

Post: #73942

Some of y’all need some patience.

Watergate took years to unfurl. If I recall, Woodward and Bernstein were frustrated at first because no one cared about their story.

This isn’t going to unfurl at the pace y’all want, but unfurl it will.

Obama probably won’t go to jail, neither did Nixon. But Nixon’s men did, and his reputation went down in tatters.

Trump might have to pardon Obama to keep the blacks from rioting.

If it is as egregious as these congressmen who read the memo say, and it is swept under the rug by corrupt media, judges, and deep staters, as some of you are saying - then this might have a desirable (yet messy) outcome. Why should conservatives participate peacefully in such a system? This could accelerate the breakup of the country.

Post: #73943

Some white pill for today.

Justice Sotomayor has Type 1 diabetes. She had an incident today that required paramedics. I guess she’s okay now though.

But I looked up Type 1 diabetes. Type 1 diabetics have shorter life spans - life expectancy is in the 60s. Sotomayor is 63.

Imagine if President Trump got to replace Sotomayor.

And Ruth Buzzie Ginsberg is half dead already.

Spotted above the SCOTUS building:

Post: #73944

(01-19-2018 02:46 PM)DamienCasanova Wrote:  

(01-19-2018 12:54 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

(01-19-2018 10:03 AM)Suits Wrote:  

(01-19-2018 09:55 AM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

Suits Wrote:Agreed. If this was a game changer, why not sit back, pour yourself a beer and wait for the deep swamp state to drain itself?

Why spend time on the Internet repeatedly posting "this is big!"?

Because the media is complicit in covering up all Democrat crimes.

And because this particular string of crimes leads to one important target: Barrack Obama.

Are the American people psychologically ready to indict Obama? Not yet. But as President Trump continues to prove that Government can be beneficent, he will also slowly build the case that Obama and his cronies need to be arrested. This case will be built day by day, street corner by street corner, one person at a time.

-----

Oh, and asserting that "the swamp will drain itself" is just

OK, so the media is complicit in covering it all up, so the guilty democrats are just going to skate.

Great.

Remind me what the point is of posting "this is big!" every time something that would lead to anything doesn't actually occur?

At this point, what difference does it make?

We are looking at the equivalent of an NCAA Death Penalty for an American Political Party.

You had me at "Death Penalty for the Democrats"

You shoot down one wing the whole bird is going to go down.

This isn't Democrats and Republicans. Lots of trash no both sides that have to get burned away with this pending purge. This will impact both parties mightily. The Democrats brand will take the biggest hit though.

Post: #73945

(01-19-2018 09:08 AM)Gmac Wrote:  

(01-19-2018 08:45 AM)ball dont lie Wrote:  Agree with many people above.

Even HD pictures and videos of Hilliary killing children and drinking their blood wouldn't result in an arrest. Some boring pretext of wire tapping isn't going to do anything.

Has any important swamp creature ever been indicted since Nixon?

Ye have little faith.

I happen to agree with him.

But other things will happen - the person who recorded or leaked the footage would have an unfortunate accident or be involved in a murder-suicide incident where he kills his entire family and his dog before shooting himself in the head (very likely witnessing everything before his death).

Then a team of world-class experts will prove that the footage seen is a CGI masterpiece and fake news. In addition Gulag and all media will instantly eliminate this fake footage forever - if you ever upload it or even put it on Piratebay, you are strangely instantly blocked and the video is deleted automatically.

It will be forgotten within a few months and no one will ever talk about it again. More people will die just in case - accidents, robberies gone wrong and more suicides happen to press forward the point.

Neither Obama nor crooked Hillary will ever see jail. Obama in addition is compared to Hillary an innocent snowflake.

Post: #73946

(01-19-2018 01:02 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  If the news about the abuses come out before he signs it, completely dominating the news cycle, he can do what we call a pocket veto. That means he can put the bill into his pocket and decide to sign it later on, like when the heat dies down a bit. That is probably the textbook move for a typical politician.

Knowing him, he probably will sign it, but he is likely going to ask all heads of those departments for assurances that they will not abuse the system, then let them go away and do their jobs, with that gaze that if they fuck up again, their all fired.

Trump is too much of a "Work Boss" and much less of a politician to utilize tactics like the pocket veto.

That's not what a pocket veto is. It depends upon whether or not congress is in session at the end of ten days and President still hasn't signed the bill.

If they are and he still didn't sign it, it becomes law. That wouldn't be a veto at all, just a sneaky way of non-attribution. Clinton did this with the Jerusalem Embassy Act. If they are not in session and there's no signature after ten days, the bill is automatically vetoed.

But I agree, I would not expect Trump to not sign a bill when congress is in session only to let it become law without his direct action.

Post: #73947

Obama will most certainly not face any charges. Trump said he doesn't want to tarnish the Office of President by doing such a thing, thereby diminishing his own legacy. He knows he'd be severely harming the country long-term by doing such a thing.

But the rest of the rats....GAME ON!

Post: #73948

Jim, Jim, Jim...

Edit.

Post: #73949

Hah, when you type in "Jim Acosta" in the YouTube search box the second item on the autofill list is "Jim Acosta owned".

Post: #73950

(01-19-2018 04:21 PM)DamienCasanova Wrote:  Obama will most certainly not face any charges. Trump said he doesn't want to tarnish the Office of President by doing such a thing, thereby diminishing his own legacy. He knows he'd be severely harming the country long-term by doing such a thing.

Fuck that.

Using the Office of President to deliberately-subvert and destroy a country, including trying to sabotage and remove a democratically-elected President, has already tarnished the Office of President. If Obama and Hillary had succeeded, there would be no more country.

I guess it's down to Bibi and how clear a warning to the Globalists about not fucking with Israel he wants to send, but I get the feeling if Trump doesn't act decisively-on this, no matter the station of who was involved, then segments of the population are going to question why they need Trump, and why they should follow any laws at all.

The Right and Left are primed for War. Trump only seems to have been trying to contain it from escalating so far.