Post: #51

(01-12-2018 01:25 PM)captain_shane Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 01:22 PM)C-Note Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 01:14 PM)Pancho Wrote:  I don't know why you're are all against immigrants. What Americans don't realize is that we need these Mexican immigrants. Who is going to pick our strawberries?

President Trump addressed that when he said there would be a "big, beautiful door" on the "big, beautiful wall." There will be a guest worker program for agriculture and some other industries which can't get adequate labor from the domestic workforce.

Which is a bullshit argument anyway that these people do the jobs Americans don't want to do. Yeah, try and pay me minimum wage to slave around picking strawberries all day. Maybe they'd get Americans to do it if they offered a decent wage.

These jobs will be automated within 10 years (even faster is we restore market equilibrium by deporting illegals who undercut the market rates for labor). It is foolhardy to import an unskilled workforce that will shortly be obsolete.

Incredibly glad the shithole comments derailed this cluster. The "deal" Flake and the Dems came up with was horrendous.

Post: #52

(01-12-2018 04:46 PM)Thomas Jackson Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 01:25 PM)captain_shane Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 01:22 PM)C-Note Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 01:14 PM)Pancho Wrote:  I don't know why you're are all against immigrants. What Americans don't realize is that we need these Mexican immigrants. Who is going to pick our strawberries?

President Trump addressed that when he said there would be a "big, beautiful door" on the "big, beautiful wall." There will be a guest worker program for agriculture and some other industries which can't get adequate labor from the domestic workforce.

Which is a bullshit argument anyway that these people do the jobs Americans don't want to do. Yeah, try and pay me minimum wage to slave around picking strawberries all day. Maybe they'd get Americans to do it if they offered a decent wage.

These jobs will be automated within 10 years (even faster is we restore market equilibrium by deporting illegals who undercut the market rates for labor). It is foolhardy to import an unskilled workforce that will shortly be obsolete.

Incredibly glad the shithole comments derailed this cluster. The "deal" Flake and the Dems came up with horrendous.

Yes automation is going to do away with the majority of manual labor jobs in the next 10-20 years. The last thing we need is to import millions of foreigners who will soon be idle and out of work. What benefit is there to that?

Post: #53

(01-12-2018 01:24 PM)Fisto Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 01:14 PM)Pancho Wrote:  I don't know why you're are all against immigrants. What Americans don't realize is that we need these Mexican immigrants. Who is going to pick our strawberries?

What a stupid comment.

Do you know the difference between legal and illegal immigrant?

Can your tiny brain imagine any other possible way to get workers to pick your precious strawberries besides allowing millions of future democrat voters soaking up God knows how much welfare and all while dumbing down classes in schools and shutting down hospitals that are forced to give them healthcare and pay for them to shit out more babies to cross the border so the can then send billions of dollars a year from pur economy back to shit hole Mexico?

Because I can think of a far better system that doesn’t fuck over legal immigrants and citizens and your produce will still get picked.

What kind of system? Serious question, because as far as I know the only type of people in the history of the US who has ever done this type of backbreaking work has been African Slaves and Mexican illegals. There's no work-ethic among the native born Americans in regards to this type of work. I seriously doubt that if you raise the hourly rate to 15 bucks an hour for strawberry and watermelon picking Americans will automatically leave their cities into the countryside to do this type of work.

Post: #54

(01-12-2018 01:25 PM)captain_shane Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 01:22 PM)C-Note Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 01:14 PM)Pancho Wrote:  I don't know why you're are all against immigrants. What Americans don't realize is that we need these Mexican immigrants. Who is going to pick our strawberries?

President Trump addressed that when he said there would be a "big, beautiful door" on the "big, beautiful wall." There will be a guest worker program for agriculture and some other industries which can't get adequate labor from the domestic workforce.

Which is a bullshit argument anyway that these people do the jobs Americans don't want to do. Yeah, try and pay me minimum wage to slave around picking strawberries all day. Maybe they'd get Americans to do it if they offered a decent wage.

Well there you go, you yourself said you wouldn't slave around and pick strawberries for minimum wage. I still don't believe Americans will slave around picking strawberries for 15 bucks either. How much are you willing to do it for then? 20? or 30 bucks an hour? Someone has to do minimum wage jobs.

I also believe Trump during the campaign said that he thinks the raising the minimum wage is bad and is "too high"

Post: #55

What did we do before illegals came here in the millions?

Or do you think they have always been here?

What did the rest of the country besides the few slave owners do for work?

Or do you think every white person (Or Chinaman you ignorant racist) had their own personal team of slaves?

Do you think no Americans in rural America, which are very many actually, wouldn’t work for 15 bucks an hour in rural America? Because I know damn well they would.

As far as you know? Bud, you don’t have a clue.

Post: #56

Illegals are not needed for these jobs, period.

The argument that 'Americans are too lazy/entitled to do these jobs so we need to import immigrants' is really getting old.

A demographic that would gladly take these jobs are high school and college students. I'm not talking about some elitist kid where mommy and daddy are paying 70k a year in tuition, but a child of a working class family would. In fact many of their parents would encourage it to build work ethic.

Another job category that illegals ruined is being a dishwasher/waiter/ or catering. Several restaurants these days hire illegals and pay them under the table. Back in the day, it was a great way to make some scratch while going to school.

I'll even go further.

Immigration for ANY type of position is only needed in an extremely small number of cases. There should be a strong tech/STEM education initiative that trains inner city teenagers rather than importing anyone from another country. Why isn't anyone looking out for them? It shows what sort of traitors the Democrats really are, putting foreigners ahead of a group that's a large part of their constituency.

The bottom line is there are people who put American citizens first and there are those that don't.

Unfortunately, we know where the majority of our ruling class stand on this matter.

Post: #57

(01-12-2018 05:54 PM)Fisto Wrote:  Or do you think every white person (Or Chinaman you ignorant racist) had their own personal team of slaves?

Not EVERY, there is not such thing as black & white like that.
In life, there are always an exception. You are just trying to reframe this entire context so that your contradiction argument doesn't make sense.

I am sure you saw less white slaves than black slaves?

(01-12-2018 05:54 PM)Fisto Wrote:  Do you think no Americans in rural America, which are very many actually, wouldn’t work for 15 bucks an hour in rural America? Because I know damn well they would.

Lol, not really. If it was that easy to fix the problems in United States, most of them would have been fixed. With all due respect, have you taken any micro or macro econ courses?

Post: #58

BG business Wrote:Lol, not really. If it was that easy to fix the problems in United States, most of them would have been fixed. With all due respect, have you taken any micro or macro econ courses?

Flooding way too many high school students into college has created the artificial need for immigrant workers. Reducing the percent of adults with a college degree to 15% would restore balance.

Post: #59

(Alright coming back to this thread...)
Lol, I honestly can't believe @Pancho is getting disparaged on this thread.

Are you guys delusional or that?

First of all, people can't be paid 15 bucks to pick strawberries or do hardcore physical labor. That's just impossible and even if it did happen, that will drive up the labor cost of that particular industry. That just comes back to the consumers (this includes the legal immigrants, permanent residents, and citizens) and they WILL have to pay higher price. This is econ 101. lol

Second, I see Americans quitting their jobs that pay 20 bucks an hour, even 30+ bucks an hour because they want more "freedom" and time "off".
Why do you think there is the saying such as "immigrant mentality"? And why do you think these guys WORK HARDER than any other groups of people?

At the end of the day, all these arguments are just wast of time. Just watch.
The government is going to come up with a solution where the Democrats and Republicans negotiate to come up with a deal that they both reasonably agree. It's just bound to happen.

Deporting almost a million people? Do you know what the fuck that would do to the economy?
Current population of US = 300mil+. In general working class is 30~35% of the entire population.
That means that around 100mil is working class for US. Almost 1% of THAT group vanishing will HURT the economy. All you guys think that it will help YOUR life better because less competition?

Yeah, less competition in Detroit too, but nobody is working, nobody is buying, there is no transaction going on. Nothing being produced.

I can't believe what I am reading on this thread, what did you guys major in college?

Post: #60

BG business Wrote:Almost 1% of THAT group vanishing will HURT the economy.

We can replace deported individuals with native-born citizens.

Post: #61

(01-12-2018 07:31 PM)MMX2010 Wrote:  Reducing the percent of adults with a college degree to 15% would restore balance.

Do you really think that is possible in this country?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1839...titutions/

Check this website out of U.S. college enrollment statistics.
It's just going to keep going up and up. More people are attending college than ever before.

I am almost attempted to say, "what the fuck did I just read" after your comment.
Ignorance is a bliss, my dude...

Post: #62

(01-12-2018 07:25 PM)bgbusiness Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 05:54 PM)Fisto Wrote:  Or do you think every white person (Or Chinaman you ignorant racist) had their own personal team of slaves?

Not EVERY, there is not such thing as black & white like that.
In life, there are always an exception. You are just trying to reframe this entire context so that your contradiction argument doesn't make sense.

I am sure you saw less white slaves than black slaves?

(01-12-2018 05:54 PM)Fisto Wrote:  Do you think no Americans in rural America, which are very many actually, wouldn’t work for 15 bucks an hour in rural America? Because I know damn well they would.

Lol, not really. If it was that easy to fix the problems in United States, most of them would have been fixed. With all due respect, have you taken any micro or macro econ courses?

White slaves? What are you talking about?

Not every white person since the formation of this country was sipping tea with their pinky finger raised.

Despite what you may have been taught many were working alongside the same slaves you think were doing all the work.

This is simply a historical fact and I’m replying to it even though it really has nothing to do with the topic of conversation, it just happens to be another stupid leftist myth.

And once again, the 15 dollar an hour comment was made and I’m replying to it since the guy I’m responding to used that number, you could make it 10 and rural americans, ESPECIALLY young people, would do it.

Don’t condescend to me chump, you know nothing about conventional farming and the scale of production for food or why it costs what it does.

I’ll educate you a little though, hint we don’t get passed on some big savings just because illegals pick food.

Post: #63

Delete

Post: #64

@Fisto...

I studied econ, accounting and management in college from a top business school. What did YOU study?
I know nothing...? I probably know more than you...buddy. lol

In addition, please fix your grammar, it's really hard to comprehend what you are trying to convey.

Lastly, like I said, I know people quitting jobs that pay more than 15 dollars EVEN if they are young. My friend just quit a job that pays 20 bucks an hour at Fedex and he is lower middle class. He said he doesn't want to work hard. That's the typical mentality of these Americans. Go look at people working at Pizza Hut, McDonalds, Burger King or any fast food restaurants, you will see the cashier not happy with their job. No enthusiasm.

You can't be this delusional.

Post: #65

BG business Wrote:With all due respect, do you really think that is possible in this country?

Removing all subsidies for student loans would very quickly reduce college enrollment by 50%. Probably within five years.

The other 35% would come as less social pressure is placed on kids to go to college.

Post: #66

(01-12-2018 07:52 PM)MMX2010 Wrote:  Removing all subsidies for student loans would very quickly reduce college enrollment by 50%. Probably within five years.

The other 35% would come as less social pressure is placed on kids to go to college.

(01-12-2018 07:52 PM)MMX2010 Wrote:  We can replace deported individuals with native-born citizens.

What the FUCK did I just read.
At this point, I am not sure if you are trolling or being serious.
Anyways, thanks for the humor. I genuinely had the biggest laugh within last few days...LOL.

Post: #67

Guys, I am done debating.

Not only I have already demonstrated my point in this thread, but nothing is going to change if we just debate on this forum.

We don't have any influence on what will happen in the next several months.

However, what I KNOW is that in few years, DACA will be redesigned and negotiated between the two parties. It is not going anywhere. At the end of the day, these illegal immigrants will be granted a pathway to stay in US.
Trump knows this, both parties know about this. They are just trying to see how much they can get away and get a better deal.

Post: #68

(01-12-2018 07:52 PM)bgbusiness Wrote:  please fix your grammar, it's really hard to comprehend what you are trying to convey.

Strong self-awareness.

Post: #69

(01-12-2018 07:52 PM)bgbusiness Wrote:  @Fisto...

I studied econ, accounting and management in college from a top business school. What did YOU study?
I know nothing...? I probably know more than you...buddy. lol

In addition, please fix your grammar, it's really hard to comprehend what you are trying to convey.

Lastly, like I said, I know people quitting jobs that pay more than 15 dollars EVEN if they are young. My friend just quit a job that pays 20 bucks an hour at Fedex and he is lower middle class. He said he doesn't want to work hard. That's the typical mentality of these Americans. Go look at people working at Pizza Hut, McDonalds, Burger King or any fast food restaurants, you will see the cashier not happy with their job. No enthusiasm.

You can't be this delusional.

Have you ever actually been to rural America where this stuff is actually grown? Thise people will gladly work for 15 bucks an hour, that’s good money where the cost of livng is low, but you should know all about that right?

Sorry bro but your “top business school” wasn’t worth it.

Post: #70

It's not rocket surgery.

Strawberries are not some precious elixir of life that are fundamentally required for human survival. Cheap strawberries are not worth the demographic obliteration of America.

If you can't sell strawberries at the cost they would bring when paying minimum wage to pick them then you don't get strawberries. There is no reasonable or rational explanation for why America should be browned into becoming Brazil simply in order to keep the price of fresh produce down.

Pay more for your watermelon and stop buying fucking iPhones, or be subsumed into South America. Your choice, though it might be noted that nobody is being paid a dollar an hour to pick strawberries in Australia and those magical berries are seen in many places other than the tables of the top-tier social elite.

I have a punnet of them in my fridge for fuck's sake.

Post: #71

(01-12-2018 09:41 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Pay more for your watermelon and stop buying fucking iPhones, or be subsumed into South America. Your choice, though it might be noted that nobody is being paid a dollar an hour to pick strawberries in Australia and those magical berries are seen in many places other than the tables of the top-tier social elite.

I have a punnet of them in my fridge for fuck's sake.

Speaking of Australia..on one of my scuba diving trips I met a German guy in his early 20's who in the past spent time traveling the world for the Germany equivalent of the gap year. He said that he tried a lot of different jobs including picking/harvesting bananas in Australia. He mentioned that there were actually a lot of European kids doing menial seasonal work like this everywhere.

Contrary to popular belief European kids aren't just handed a sack of welfare cash to spend on their gap year.

So, if such seasonal employers can find willing laborers..even white european workers I don't see why it can't be the same way in North America.

Let's face it leftist illegal immigration lobbyists (La Raza etc..) are firmly in bed with large agribusiness firms. Both have different but intersecting agendas in flooding the country with low wage laborers.

I'm sure your proud good ole' boy WASP oligarch claims to care about America but in matters of enriching their own family dynasty they couldn't give two shits about this.

I could go even farther and say that the first sellouts were always the blue blood WASP elite types who sold out various industries after WW2 to promote their own interests.

Once again the American middle class individual is put on the sacrificial altar.

Post: #72

(01-12-2018 05:39 PM)Pancho Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 01:24 PM)Fisto Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 01:14 PM)Pancho Wrote:  I don't know why you're are all against immigrants. What Americans don't realize is that we need these Mexican immigrants. Who is going to pick our strawberries?

What a stupid comment.

Do you know the difference between legal and illegal immigrant?

Can your tiny brain imagine any other possible way to get workers to pick your precious strawberries besides allowing millions of future democrat voters soaking up God knows how much welfare and all while dumbing down classes in schools and shutting down hospitals that are forced to give them healthcare and pay for them to shit out more babies to cross the border so the can then send billions of dollars a year from pur economy back to shit hole Mexico?

Because I can think of a far better system that doesn’t fuck over legal immigrants and citizens and your produce will still get picked.

What kind of system? Serious question, because as far as I know the only type of people in the history of the US who has ever done this type of backbreaking work has been African Slaves and Mexican illegals. There's no work-ethic among the native born Americans in regards to this type of work. I seriously doubt that if you raise the hourly rate to 15 bucks an hour for strawberry and watermelon picking Americans will automatically leave their cities into the countryside to do this type of work.

I guess you didn't read "The Grapes of Wrath" in high school.

Post: #73

(01-12-2018 09:41 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  It's not rocket surgery.

Strawberries are not some precious elixir of life that are fundamentally required for human survival. Cheap strawberries are not worth the demographic obliteration of America.

If you can't sell strawberries at the cost they would bring when paying minimum wage to pick them then you don't get strawberries. There is no reasonable or rational explanation for why America should be browned into becoming Brazil simply in order to keep the price of fresh produce down.

Pay more for your watermelon and stop buying fucking iPhones, or be subsumed into South America. Your choice, though it might be noted that nobody is being paid a dollar an hour to pick strawberries in Australia and those magical berries are seen in many places other than the tables of the top-tier social elite.

I have a punnet of them in my fridge for fuck's sake.

This really should be common sense. America did not starve before 1965 - wages were higher for these jobs and lots of high school kids did them during the summer. We can't fault a rich grower for looking out for his bottom line, but we can absolutely fault the government for betraying their constituents and importing a servant class.

Post: #74

(01-12-2018 05:39 PM)Pancho Wrote:  The only type of people in the history of the US who has ever done this type of backbreaking work has been African Slaves and Mexican illegals. There's no work-ethic among the native born Americans in regards to this type of work. I seriously doubt that if you raise the hourly rate to 15 bucks an hour for strawberry and watermelon picking Americans will automatically leave their cities into the countryside to do this type of work.

Before illegal immigration from Mexico following 1960s, there was no agriculture in USA. Want to buy a watermelon? You're shit out of luck.

It's also worth mentioning that at that time there were no restaurants either. If you wanted to eat out at a nice place, you'd better have been prepared to wash the dishes yourself.

There were also no luggage handlers, postmen or maids. Born in an era before Mexican illegals? Better get your own mail because sure as hell no red-blooded American will bring it to you!

Finally, my grandpa who worked for the UN traveled to US on a few occasions after WW2 and I remember him describing how interesting it was that the elevator in his hotel was manually pulled up by black slaves turning cranks.
Their balls-and-chains were tied to the elevator cables, so if one of them stopped pulling the others would get pulled into the grotto and crushed. A gruesome system, but absolutely necessary since without Mexican illegals there was no one to do it.

Most people don't know this.

Post: #75

I'm a U.S. born child of immigrants and i've seen California absolutely destroyed by Mexicans and central american "immigrants" over the years.

If you asked me if i'd rather pay $20 for a watermelon or walk around strapped to the nuts and have to watch my back at every second in a parking lot while shopping at Vons i'd pick $20 watermelon every. fucking. time.