Post: #101

I didn't come here to waste my time on fools.. Just not interested.

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Post: #102

The thing is that no one owes you anything Neo.

Why do you feel that you're entitled to step-by-step instructions?

OP has given ample direction for anyone who's serious about getting started with internet marketing.

No one is going to hold your hand in internet marketing, for reasons that OP has already explained. It's a cut-throat industry where you genuinely have to figure things out for yourself. That's just the red pill reality that you just have to deal with if you're interested in this market.

If you just got over your weird entitlement complex, and took action on the information that OP has already provided, you'd be well on your way to generating a decent ROI online.

This stuff isn't rocket science. It's a process of buying lots of data (ad spend), operating at a loss for a few months, and eventually becoming profitable. Tens of thousands of people have already done this shit.

That's why you (preferably) need $15K in the bank to start with. I'd say that you can get started with $7K. But, it's best to have consistent cash flow to fund your campaigns.

How are you going to spend money on ad campaigns when you don't have at least a few thousand bucks in the bank? Ad placements cost money.

I love talking about this topic, but I guess RVF isn't the place to do it. Too many "crabs in a bucket" types who want to tear other people down.

Post: #103

@AffNomad

So other guys kind of touched on this a bit...

But with the media buying skills you have, why stay an affiliate? The margins are pretty meager, and the programs can be shut down any time, or not pay out.

Why not do what other IMers do and create a high ticket sales funnel?

Post: #104

(12-28-2017 03:59 AM)AffNomad Wrote:  

(12-27-2017 12:03 PM)Neo Wrote:  Not sure on your claims yet, but other members seem to be in the process of verifying.

I believe a data sheet would be helpful. For now let's say someone is pretty much an Affiliate marketing noob.

Willing to start with 1-5k of working capital to learn the ropes. Would rather start small to learn from mistakes and work up.

Has knowledge of certain markets such as fitness and supplements.

Can write decent copy.

Wants to remain ethical with products and methods.

Doesn't really have a network in the aff world.

What would be the actions steps to take in the next 30 days to get up and running?

1-5k won't cut it if you want to learn media buying on your own dime. Figure 2k/month MINIMUM to learn this, and many spend some months before seeing consistent wins. Not to say that you'll be losing 2k/month, but you certainly won't be seeing 100% ROI in your initial campaigns. With only 2k/month budget, it's hard.. I guess I'd say go with mobile popups and antivirus installs? Maybe sweeps? Not really sure what's hot for low payout offers these days, or which geos. If you're serious or even moderately curious then buy a membership to STM and read the entire forum cover to cover.

^ But like someone else said, AM is the wrong industry for your if your ethics come first.

To tell you what steps to take would take many pages.. if you have a more specific question I can answer for you, but the best thing I can tell you is to take my advice and read STM. If I do write a data sheet it'll be geared towards BH FB and starting with an initial budget of 15k.

Another idea, if you really only have 5k MAX to spend.. head over to blackhatworld forum and learn how to make SEO amazon sites. SEO is boring as shit imo but it does work and you will make money. And I guess it's ethical... but ethical is a slippery slope.

(12-28-2017 11:03 AM)Neo Wrote:  Actually you never answered them to begin with. You answered that I need to be 'more specific.'

And when people are being skeptical and asking for proof you resort to name calling.

If I'm wrong and what you sent to Suits and hopefully others checks out I'll be the first to change my stance.

Now, carry on.

Actually, dude?

You present yourself as an ungrateful doubter in one sentence, and ask me questions in the next. I have the class to ignore your bad attitude, and I take MY time to respond with a bigger response your initial inquiry.

And now because I'm not an expert on how to enter an industry called media buying with not enough funds, and instead steer you to a helpful resource, I'm now somehow a "snake oil salesman" who will try to bilk you out of money.

See - I'm not going to help you or anyone like you. Because I simply don't like you, and because I don't have to. Tough luck.

Post: #105

(12-28-2017 11:51 AM)Suits Wrote:  Vouch might be too strong of a word. The documents you sent me indicate that you're in some type of business that is or resembles what you claim to be involved in here in this thread.

However, this doesn't mean that you should be absolved of scrutiny. Extreme claims (such as earning 20K+ a month) are going to invite suspicion.

I'm not knowledgeable about this subject, so I'll have to leave it to others to look closer at the information you've present in this thread and elsewhere on the forum, in addition to anything you are willing to share privately.

All I've done is recommend that others give you a fair chance to prove yourself. You still have to prove yourself. I've some of the questions posed in this thread about some really legitimate concerns about some of your claims. A good start would be responding in good faith to those questions.

Like it or not, as verifiable by having even a modicum of exposure to the BH FB space, or affiliate marketing space in general -- 20k/month is scratching the surface. Apparently that blows guy's minds so much they are triggered to jealousy or denial, even after I send half dozen specific screenshots to you and interact with multiple members here active in the space that seem to think I hold water. SAD!

Just... over it. Feels like hanging out with 50% betas and losers.

Post: #106

I can help a bit.

You can see why this kind of money is necessary if you break down the steps necessary for testing. Let’s take the example of a Facebook or Native ad. What are the variables? Ad copy, ad image, presell page, offer. It’s a general rule of thumb to throw enough test traffic at just one combination of those variables to equal the payout of the offer in question.

So let’s take a vertical like Nutra and use a $70 payout as a nice round number. I’m spitballing this number because a Nutra offer typically has two steps: the first step plus an upsell, with the upsell take rare on most reputable offers around 75%. So if the payout for both steps is $40 each, 1.75*40= $70. In reality, an affiliate coming in cold with no proven track record of quality retention will get less than a $40 payout per step, usually 37-38.

So we need to test every combination of variables to a $70 limit if we want a good solid statistically significant sample. You can “rotate” through these variables equally and efficiently with a program like Voluum, which is what I was using when running my own internal traffic a few years ago. There may be a better program now, but I see Voluum is still out there since they’re a big sponsor at ASW 2018.

I would say at minimum you want 3 totally different ad copies and 3 totally different ad images appealing to different things (taking different “angles”...read Cashvertising). Then you want at least 2 totally different presell landing pages. Different layouts, colors etc. all of this will funnel down to the offer itself. As a product owner myself, I know there is a lot of variability in how much effort an offer owner puts into making his page convert. So you’ll want to test at least 3 different offers in a single vertical (3 different skin cream offers for example). Of course you’ll need to modify your presells to reflect the correct product names and images.

So we hav 3*3*2*3 at a minimum which is 54 different combinations. Take 54*70 and you have $3780.

That’s the price to do the bare minimum test on a campaign. And it’s not even a thorough test to be honest...you would really want more combinations, different demographic/site targeting, over a longer time period (some times of the day are good, some are bad...you could run this test between certain hours and lose all your money, pick different hours and make crazy ROI).

What you’ll see as you begin to spend money as the campaign goes live is that it’s converting more on particular ad images / ad copy / presells / offers / targeting. The process of paring out the losers from the winners is called optimizing. In this initial stage you are basically guaranteed to lose money but as long as it’s converting there is “traction” and you can optimize down, hopefully eventually reaching profitability.

From there you enjoy your profits and continue to split test different combinations similar to the winner to increase them. Eventually shit hits the fan. Offers go down, traffic sources change, ads “burn out”. It’s a game of whack a mole.

All of this assumes you have some idea what you’re doing:
-everything is set up correctly so you don’t go live and send your money into a literal black hole because some site is not coded correctly or software installed correctly
-you have a reasonable idea of the proper CPC/CPM to bid for your ads. For instance if the top bidder is paying 25 cent cpc and you bid a dollar thinking to yourself “that seems low” with no reference point, you will become the top bidder and get a flood of traffic that will smoke your $15k before you can hit refresh. You generally want to start out high enough to get exposure on all the expensive targets without burning through your budget. Chances are the expensive targets are the good ones and if you bid too low you may never run on them, concluding your campaign is a failure. This is where the guidance of your account rep comes in very handy. I never ran on FB, it was a faceless monolith back in the day...but for instance native advertising platforms will give you an account rep that can give you insight as far as bids, good targets etc.

Now you may get extremely lucky and reach profitability on your first campaign, but then you will have to double down and risk all the old money plus the profit if you want to scale. You’ll put it all on the line every day for a long time. There is no point to dipping your toes in and burning $500, seeing two conversions that give you no actionable data because you’re out of money. You really have to go big or don’t bother.

I am not going to make any claims or push too hard, I’ve seen how that ends up...these guys come along occasionally and usually end up banned. Just offering some help.

Post: #107

Oh I should add: you can test a lower payout offer and enjoy a smaller budget, but many of these are zip/email submits that SCRUB LIKE CRAZY...very hard to be profitable with those unless you have a direct relationship...I wouldn’t bother if running through a network (middleman).

Post: #108

OP you don’t like brown girls but do you like doubling or tripling your take home pay depending on where you live?

Seriously look into Act 20/22. There are multiple options:

1) live in PR half the year and pay 4% federal income tax roughly (if you live in the states that DOUBLES your income assuming you would otherwise pay 50% ish)

2) live ANYWHERE abroad, spending no more than 89 days in the United States, and pay 4% ish federal income tax. You could travel the world like some guys on here, skipping from city to city, and “pay” yourself hundreds of thousands of dollars in tax savings to do so.

3) live WHERE YOU DO NOW IN THE STATES and incorporate in PR, absolutely no residency requirement, and pay roughly 24% federal income tax (the aforementioned 4% to PR and roughly 20% to the IRS as long term capital gains)

Most industry guys are doing this now. It’s really a no brainer. I can put you in touch with the main attorney who handles it.

Post: #109

^^^ I think the new tax bill hits PR hard. I don't think you will be able to get those benefits anymore.

As for OP, I will give him the benefit of the doubt that he is telling the truth. This is just because it's a lucrative industry and it's not uncommon to make 5 figures doing what he does.

Post: #110

Teflon,

Thanks for the useful post and breaking this down.

Post: #111

I'm not in this type of business since I find it morally repulsive.

He could be telling the truth, but the comments about using celebrities and fake news sites give me pause. Affiliates were using that stuff during the "Acai" craze where companies were getting customers on a forced trial periods and making it near impossible to cancel. A lot of people and companies got hit hard by the FTC. That also made continuity programs much more scrutinized.

This type of marketing is a grind and I suspect most people here value their time more than this type of "business" would allow. You would be better off catering to specific markets or niches within those markets. People don't generally purchase one product over their lifetime. If you get to know your niche well, you can be selling them stuff for years.

The OP's method is having to get a new person every time he wants to make a sale. It is the nature of scamming people into buying bullshit products. Serving a group of people, with valuable products, will allow you to make a lot of money without having to worry about getting more and more and more people.

Post: #112

**AMA OVER**

Way more frustration than fulfillment. Thanks to those who did contribute in good ways, following up with several of you via PM.

Post: #113

(12-28-2017 03:12 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  I'm not in this type of business since I find it morally repulsive.

He could be telling the truth, but the comments about using celebrities and fake news sites give me pause. Affiliates were using that stuff during the "Acai" craze where companies were getting customers on a forced trial periods and making it near impossible to cancel. A lot of people and companies got hit hard by the FTC. That also made continuity programs much more scrutinized.

This type of marketing is a grind and I suspect most people here value their time more than this type of "business" would allow. You would be better off catering to specific markets or niches within those markets. People don't generally purchase one product over their lifetime. If you get to know your niche well, you can be selling them stuff for years.

The OP's method is having to get a new person every time he wants to make a sale. It is the nature of scamming people into buying bullshit products. Serving a group of people, with valuable products, will allow you to make a lot of money without having to worry about getting more and more and more people.

While I agree that it's important to have great integrity in business, I don't think it's helpful to shut down conversation, either.

I don't do anything blackhat like the OP, but I welcome this discussion, because you can learn something from everyone.

For example, I had a Facebook ad account banned for absolutely no reason (again, I don't do anything blackhat). Facebook essentially screwed me. But, this thread has given me a good idea as to how I can get a new ad account for my 100% ethical business.

The point is that people ultimately have to make their own decisions in life. OP isn't forcing anyone to do anything unethical. You can still learn from his experiences.

Post: #114

(12-28-2017 05:48 PM)stefpdt Wrote:  While I agree that it's important to have great integrity in business, I don't think it's helpful to shut down conversation, either.

I don't do anything blackhat like the OP, but I welcome this discussion, because you can learn something from everyone.

For example, I had a Facebook ad account banned for absolutely no reason (again, I don't do anything blackhat). Facebook essentially screwed me. But, this thread has given me a good idea as to how I can get a new ad account for my 100% ethical business.

The point is that people ultimately have to make their own decisions in life. OP isn't forcing anyone to do anything unethical. You can still learn from his experiences.

I only gave my opinion. I, in no way, shut down any conversation. I suspect that he stopped because he was talking about stuff that was used a long time ago that had major legal repercussions.

The rules of this forum also dictates no discussion of illegal activities. You can google FTC + fake news sites + acai if you want the legal run down on how he does business if what he is saying is true.

Sure, you can still learn from experiences. The only thing I saw from this AMA was a bunch of acronyms and using a cloaker to get people on a fake news site with fake celebrity endorsements. Nothing to learn there besides a lot legal issues if/when caught.

What else did I miss? I'm sure other members would be grateful if you highlighted some actionable information that I apparently missed.

Teflon had the more realistic post and it wasn't even his AMA.

Post: #115

(12-28-2017 01:48 PM)AffNomad Wrote:  Like it or not, as verifiable by having even a modicum of exposure to the BH FB space, or affiliate marketing space in general -- 20k/month is scratching the surface. Apparently that blows guy's minds so much they are triggered to jealousy or denial, even after I send half dozen specific screenshots to you and interact with multiple members here active in the space that seem to think I hold water. SAD!

Just... over it. Feels like hanging out with 50% betas and losers.

I said I was bowing out, but you had to puff your chest out and take some gay swipes.

No one is doubting the possibility of making 20k/month, nor have our minds been "blown" by such figures, not in the least. There are many, many members here are doing far better than that, and you have no idea about the income or success levels of myself or anyone posting in this thread, or on the forum. You are not gracing us with your presence, nor does anyone here owe you gratitude or appreciation at this point- least of all based on this "data" of appropriate industry terms.

You seem to have arrived thinking we should be lucky to have you, that is not a good way to start when no one has any idea about you yet. It's a bizarre phenomenon that I have encountered in private communications with a few different members here. They are eager to "mentor" or "teach" you when in fact they are running the equivalent of a lemonade stand compared to what many of us are up to.

There are multiple other threads wherein members share their financial success and not one person has doubted them. Can you guess why?

What has transpired in this thread is often what happens when we get members who have decided to sign up and immediately create threads, or more specifically threads like you have which essentially translate to:

Hey Look at My Decent Financial Success
Hey Someone Help Me I'm Fucking 7 New Girls Per Week What Do I Do

You could be genuine, absolutely, but the problem is you haven't bothered to understand how the forum works, as you haven't bothered to participate in it prior to creating these threads and let dudes get to know you a bit and vice versa. You have said you've lurked for some time, if that is true then you would understand this fact. It's just another data point that makes what you say suspect, along with:

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Anyway, it's probably for the best that discussion of these short term scams, pump and dumps, and borderline or actual fraud "businesses" happen via PM anyway.

If anyone is interested in sustainable and real business ideas and advice I encourage you to look around the forum, you will find many great pieces of advice that don't revolve around low percentage gambles and high spends, deception, and zero long term viability.

Post: #116

@worldwidetraveler

Some people on RVF learned that it’s possible to make $20-30k per month online, which enables you to freely travel the world, and basically do whatever you want.

I’m not sure why you sound so butthurt. But, some members here certainly took away value that may improve their life.

People can re-read this thread if they like.

Yeah, teflon’s post wouldn’t exist if OP hadn’t started this thread.

Post: #117

(12-28-2017 06:05 PM)stefpdt Wrote:  @worldwidetraveler

Some people on RVF learned that it’s possible to make $20-30k per month online, which enables you to freely travel the world, and basically do whatever you want.

I’m not sure why you sound so butthurt. But, some members here certainly took away value that may improve their life.

People can re-read this thread if they like.

Yeah, teflon’s post wouldn’t exist if OP hadn’t started this thread.

Maybe the reason you think I am butt hurt is more about you trying to scam people with acai berry weight lost type offers. No doubt any opinion against that type of marketing, which screws the rest of us, would sound butt hurt.

You got banned from Facebook for doing something they didn't like, no? Now you plan on cloaking so you can continue. Yeah, sounds legit man.

Post: #118

Lol. I’m not even an internet marketer.

But yes, I can hook you up with a sweet deal on some açaí berries if you like.

Dr. Oz recommends them.

Post: #119

Stefpdt, no one just learned it's possible to make 30k/month online. If so then they have haven't been paying attention. Hell, WeekendCassanova does far better than this and has outlined what he does in probably three different threads, and in addition to that his methods are 100% above board, real businesses and are actually achievable by most, whereas not one person reading the "data" in this thread is likely to make a cent doing this.

Post: #120

(12-28-2017 06:13 PM)stefpdt Wrote:  Lol. I’m not even an internet marketer.

But yes, I can hook you up with a sweet deal on some açaí berries if you like.

Dr. Oz recommends them.

Complains about Facebook ads account getting banned but not a internet marketer.

Makes sense.

Post: #121

(12-28-2017 06:15 PM)GlobalMan Wrote:  Stefpdt, no one just learned it's possible to make 30k/month online. If so then they have haven't been paying attention. Hell, WeekendCassanova does far better than this and has outlined what he does in probably three different threads, and in addition to that his methods are 100% above board, real businesses and are actually achievable by most, whereas not one person reading the "data" in this thread is likely to make a cent doing this.

I love Casanova’s contributions to this forum, and I actually enjoyed this thread as well.

Yes, real businesses are the way to go obviously.

But you can apply internet marketing principles to a real business in a way that provides customers with real value.

Post: #122

(12-28-2017 06:20 PM)stefpdt Wrote:  But you can apply internet marketing principles to a real business in a way that provides customers with real value.

Nobody said otherwise. You are imagining something that was never said nor implied.

I commented on the negative issues that surrounded the OP's affiliate business model. I even wrote an alternative approach to what I would consider a better business model if people wanted to do affiliate marketing.

Hardly shutting down the conversation.

There was nothing actionable in this AMA. All you could come up with is that people can see that there is money to be made online.

As GlobalMan stated, we have multiple of threads already discussing this. Not to mention the guy who started this forum lives completely off of his online endeavors.

Post: #123

(12-28-2017 01:48 PM)AffNomad Wrote:  Feels like hanging out with 50% betas and losers.

7-day suspension for insulting forum membership.

Post: #124

Delete.

Post: #125

Another poster mentioned using some of these methods on a completely legitimate business. That’s the thing about these online businesses: if at any point you’re relying on a massive corporate entity you’re going to need to do something akin to the Facebook account resurrection discussed previously. Many times these big faceless organizations will shut you down for no apparent reason, and you won’t have a rep to talk to, any warning, or any recourse. Your description for your legit Amazon product might include some claims some random compliance department kid doesn’t like. Facebook might find something to nitpick in your terms or privacy policy. Dunno if it’s still this bad, but a few years ago these types of tiny things would get you instantly shut down. Now you’ve got 5-6 figures of product sitting in a warehouse somewhere, maybe some people who’ve already ordered but haven’t had their orders shipped yet etc. so what do you do? At some point most have to choose exactly whom they want to be ethical to. Is it the customer? Is it one or all of the vendors/platforms/service providers they use? Sometimes you can’t have it all. My advice would be to place the customers above all else.

For the record, açaí has not been sold in many, many years. The people who caused the crackdown on this niche were doing extremely shady shit: not shipping product, customer service phone line leads to nowhere, bill every 7 days, all kinds of BS. The weight loss vertical still exists and most guys are running compliantly and doing everything they can to allow customers to cancel. It is possible to run this kind of business if you make sure you’re compliant and do right by people.

“Tech support” is some gnarly shit and no one should ever run that. Bad idea.

The campaign testing method I outlined can be applied to any online business, legitimate or not.