Post: #1

I have read books on various serial killers throughout the years and sometimes I wonder what actually drove them to do the things they did?

I can think of 3 examples off of the top of my head.

1) Ted Bundy- He seemed to have gone off the deep end after being rejected by his girlfriend, some books and films suggest some of his victims resembled that girlfriend. Ted also mentioned in his last days that getting into pornography at a young age wrecked him, but that might've been to throw off Dr. James Dobson in his interview.

2) Edmund Kemper- He picked up hitchhiking women, had a thing for beheading them and having oral sex with their heads. His mother abused him quite for a bit because she thought because of his height he might kill his sister. Edmund also shot his grandparents just because he wanted to. He's in an asylum now for the rest of his life

3) Jeffrey Dahmer- I know he's gay and posters here aren't fond of them, but what could ever drive him to kill people and put their parts in refrigerators?

4) The Columbine shooters- What point were they trying to make?

5) Adam Lanza: Obviously, his mother was weird to him so it makes sense why she would be his first victim.

What is it? Possible malfunctioning parts in their brain to kill people, traumatic events that shaped their outlook in life or they just plain crazy? Ostrcaization like Eliot Rodger? What goes on in their heads?

Post: #2

what ever happened to just labeling people as plain old cray cray?

Post: #3

Men are natural born killers. Maybe serial killers just over do it.

Post: #4

I think in life we have a bunch of motives that are supposed to drive us. In almost every case, there is a productive approach that results in rewards, or a shortcut. An obvious example is that marriage is supposed to lead to sexual pleasure and satisfaction, but this pleasure comes within a framework that provides for the children that sex results in, and makes sure not only to feed the children, but to raise them to be good members of society. In comparison, casual sex or even paying whores results in sexual pleasure, but it is dissipative instead of healthy and constructive in life.

Likewise, diet and exercise, building good friendships, and developing valuable work skills and habits lead to feelings of satisfaction and well-being, but you can also get temporary satisfaction and well-being from doing drugs.

In every area of life, there are opportunities to go down the wrong path, or even turn to the dark side. In the case of serial killers, or the people who go on shooting sprees, or terrorists, I think there is a dark resentment that builds up, and they start having experiences where they dominate someone or force them to do something, and like it. Maybe even something as simple as berating a clerk behind the counter at a store until they do what you want. Once they start to feed on the sensation of dominating and forcing unhappiness and misery upon others, they get a taste for it, and start taking it farther and farther. They get pleasure from it, and start going further.

They reason the world is fucked up, and they are justified in striking back. They are miserable, and the world made them this way. They deserve to strike back. The "so-called" innocent victims they select do not deserve to be safe. The victim deserves to suffer, just like the serial killer suffers. Hurting the victim feels good. Seeing them cry and plead feels good. Tormenting them until they can't stand it feels good. Seeing the despair in their eyes, and hearing it in their screams and pleading feels good, as the victim knows they are already so badly hurt that it is too late, and they have no hope.

All of this is truly sick, and evil. I don't believe in insanity per se. I think insanity is just someone that becomes too disassociated from society. Such people should be gassed. There are schizophrenics who can't help themselves, but most of the serial killers are not in this category. They are ordinary people who went down a forbidden path seeking twisted forms of satisfaction in life, and went all the way with it.

Post: #5

(10-30-2017 05:13 AM)Chris Brown Wrote:  Men are natural born killers. Maybe serial killers just over do it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morn...2c8b5fbe3e

Quote:“Female serial killers gather and male serial killers hunt,” Harrison said. “That was very interesting to me, as an evolutionary psychologist, that it reflects kind of ancestral tendencies.”

Post: #6

(10-29-2017 06:58 PM)Kurgan Wrote:  3) Jeffrey Dahmer- I know he's gay and posters here aren't fond of them, but what could ever drive him to kill people and put their parts in refrigerators?

I would hope posters here aren't too fond of serial killers in general.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #7

I would assume these kinds of people were already mentally defective, so the abuse they experienced combined with their already fucked heads probably lead them to do these kinds of things.

Murdering multiple people who they had no prior connection to speaks to me as people that already had major dysfunctions in their brain. Keeping kidneys and some bladders next to the Dill pickle jar in the fridge strikes me as behavior far, far away from an average person. There are plenty of normal people out there who had traumatic upbringings who managed to make it their whole lives without resorting to becoming a serial killer to workout their issues.

Post: #8

This seems like one of those trap threads.

Nice to meet you Mr FBI.

Post: #9

Think of all the things that can go wrong with your body.

Skin infections, cancer, heart disease, warts, strokes, flu, leprosy etc.

Imagine all the things that can go wrong with your brain. Especially considering how complex and multibillion synapse connections reliant it is.

To me, it's an amazing thing that there isn't WAY much more mental illness (in all its forms) than we witness in our population.

Post: #10

They mostly consist of individuals with personality disorders, i.e. psychopath or socialpath. Thus individuals who are out of touch with reality, in terms of lacking empathy or humanity, in terms of real emotions and feelings.

Post: #11

Maybe serial killers dont get laid that much.

Post: #12

(11-03-2017 02:26 AM)Chris Brown Wrote:  Maybe serial killers dont get laid that much.

Not that far from the truth. One of the VICAP pioneers said that a lot of it came down to anger at being denied the sort of things that others took for granted e.g. girlfriends, wives, marriage, children.

Post: #13

Quote:What is it? Possible malfunctioning parts in their brain to kill people, traumatic events that shaped their outlook in life or they just plain crazy? Ostrcaization like Eliot Rodger? What goes on in their heads?

Wrongly treated + Maladjusted in regard of society's standards + Living in your own alternate realty and then let time do its work...
It's only when the dude get to the point of no return that the serial killer make his entrance

Post: #14

The apple doesn't fall too far from the tree. Genetics!

For every psychopath out there, their parents were usually fucked up people. Richard Kuklinski father was a mean motherfucker, used to hit him hard on constantly basis, he actually wanted to kill his dad when he grew up but never had the opportunity to do it. He wasn't fond of his mother too.

The psychopath girl I dated (wrote a book about her), I have a feeling that her mother was an evil bitch too. She told me her mother passed away when she was young but she never really gave me details of how she died but I am quiet sure one of her parents was a fucked up person. Her daughter (the daughter of the psychopath) already had the predisposition to do evil even though she was only 5, I could already sense the evil in her mannerism, I am sure she picked the genes from her mother.

Genes are atavistic, meaning that even if your kids don't get your genes, your grandkids or the generation after will get it.

I will also add that your environment will certainly shape your outcome and life perspective.

Post: #15

One guy that really bogs my mind is Elliot Rodger.


The kid was rich, spoiled, had both parents in his life, basically a silver spooned brat.

He wasn't happy with his life and thought that life was unfair. So he goes out and kills people.

There are people who are dirt poor living in repressive governments yet they don't commit suicide, yet Elliot Rodgers dares to kill himself over not having a Blonde girlfriend?

Post: #16

Mass shooters and serial killers most of the time have nothing in common.

Post: #17

It seems like there's a Jordan Peterson video to answer any question that arises on the forum!

Post: #18

(12-17-2017 03:44 PM)Pancho Wrote:  One guy that really bogs my mind is Elliot Rodger.

The kid was rich, spoiled, had both parents in his life, basically a silver spooned brat.

He wasn't happy with his life and thought that life was unfair. So he goes out and kills people.

There are people who are dirt poor living in repressive governments yet they don't commit suicide, yet Elliot Rodgers dares to kill himself over not having a Blonde girlfriend?

That's oversimplified but You've probably stated all the reasons that made him shift from a beta into a killer, the guy had not hit rock bottom, he had, in fact, one of the best seat to watch women go crazy for lower ranks dudes who had not even a tenth of what he had.

The irony, today, would for him to look at his own gif and be wise about all that crap...

Post: #19

Spree killers are a product of a fractured, artificial society that causes them to feel alienated (in general, of course every person is different).

Serial killers have wires crossed somewhere. I think serial killers are a...force of nature. I'd imagine there are some serial killers who never got caught who racked up some terribly impressive kill counts. I think serial killers act as a check on civilization and humanity in general.

Post: #20

(10-29-2017 06:58 PM)Kurgan Wrote:  I have read books on various serial killers throughout the years and sometimes I wonder what actually drove them to do the things they did?
I can think of 3 examples off of the top of my head.
1) Ted Bundy- He seemed to have gone off the deep end after being rejected by his girlfriend, some books and films suggest some of his victims resembled that girlfriend. Ted also mentioned in his last days that getting into pornography at a young age wrecked him, but that might've been to throw off Dr. James Dobson in his interview.
2) Edmund Kemper- He picked up hitchhiking women, had a thing for beheading them and having oral sex with their heads. His mother abused him quite for a bit because she thought because of his height he might kill his sister. Edmund also shot his grandparents just because he wanted to. He's in an asylum now for the rest of his life
3) Jeffrey Dahmer- I know he's gay and posters here aren't fond of them, but what could ever drive him to kill people and put their parts in refrigerators?
4) The Columbine shooters- What point were they trying to make?
5) Adam Lanza: Obviously, his mother was weird to him so it makes sense why she would be his first victim.
What is it? Possible malfunctioning parts in their brain to kill people, traumatic events that shaped their outlook in life or they just plain crazy? Ostrcaization like Eliot Rodger? What goes on in their heads?

1. Ted Bundy grew up in an abusive household. The stories go that he was told that his mother was actually his sister... that she would sleep with sailors from the nearby navy base with him under the bed. She was a single mom. He was bullied a lot about being a bastard... and people say his grandather beat the shit out of the whole family.

2. Ed Kemper had an abusive and controlling mother, who belittled him constantly.

3. Dahmer was a gay guy who was frequently rejected by other gay men. His serial killing spree was actually his attempt to create mindless sex slaves. He was using acid to lobotomize the men he abducted... when it killed them he chopped them up and ate them... because he viewed their death as yet another rejection.

4. The Columbine shooters were ignored by their parents and shit on by classmates. They also felt the police targeted them. The shooting spree was an act of suicidal revenge with the goal of taking out their bullies.

5. Lanza believed he was being controlled by society.

6. Rogers was unsuccessful with women and couldn't understand why. He eventually decided to end his own life and take as many others as possible with him.

If you look at all of these killers one very strong theme stands out. These are men who FEEL powerless and are attempting to re-exert their dominance. Gary Ridgway the Green River Killer, would strangle prostitutes while imagining he was choking to death his cheating wife.

Most men have an innate desire to exert ourselves upon the world. Some guys are Ok being submissive bitches, but not most of us. If you ostracize and rip the power away from a man who needs it... a portion of those men will lash out with incredible violence. I mean a boy like Ed Kemper who is abused by his mother from such a young age... eventually takes that pent up rage out on women in general. It is no accident that he decapitated his mother and had sex with her corpse. When he did the other women he was getting revenge on his mother each time.

This is the thing with human nature. We are designed to think in stereotypes and categories. If you live out in the wild and eat a berry that makes you sick... it will save your life to be wary of every other berry from that point on.

Post: #21

Let's not leave out the likelihood of narcissism.

Spree killers and murder-suicide cases in families often have a common element to them: impending credit collapse. Not collapsed credit, mind you, imminent foreclosure or cancellation of the credit card.

Why is this so? Because the narcissist is suddenly left with the prospect that the image he has carefully constructed for the public to see is going to be ripped away, exposing the real person beneath. When that happens, the narcissism compels an ending, a final act ... or elimination of those people who the narcissist has been trying to convince. Some use the mass shooting as a way to go out but be remembered, to control the ending of their story.

Last Psychiatrist's seven markers of a murder-suicide or mass shooter about to happen:

Quote:1. He's not losing a job, he's losing his ability to keep up the lifestyle:

The self-employed flower salesman was facing accusations of invoice discrepancies from his main customer - which had suspended his contract - and feared a police investigation into his accounts... "His financial world had collapsed, his source of business income or at least 90 to 95% of it, had disappeared in a moment. Their lifestyle, as he knew it, would be over."

1b. The lifestyle often involves some kind of "soft" illegality (accounting irregularities, the use of drugs, etc). The news may cite jail as the main stressor; but the general fear is the irrreproducibility of the lifestyle (e.g. even if he doesn't go to jail, he'll never be able to make that kind of money again, legally.)

2. A sudden, temporary, but unshakable realization that there is no way out of this. "This is the end of me," "it's over," "I'm dead," etc.

Business associates told the hearing that Mr McFall had considered himself "finished" after a meeting about alleged invoice discrepancies the day before his death.

If you hear a man say, "I'm finished", believe it. Especially if it doesn't seem as bad as he thinks it is. It's his inability to see alternatives (which would require another person's perspective) that makes him dangerous.

3. While anyone can see how severe the problem is, no one else sees the problem as insurmountable-- except him. "Why didn't he just...?"

West Mercia Police said the case would probably not have ended up in court but an investigation would have been started if the owners of Stans Superstore had taken their concerns to police.

This is his inability to see things from another perspective except his own. What's obvious to you is not obvious to him, and opportunities to intervene can be missed if you think he "would have thought of that himself." Be concrete, be basic. "Look, are you a legal scholar now? Let's get a lawyer." A lawyer? Really? "Yeah-- I know a guy-- and let him tell you what he sees; if they can get OJ off, they can get you off. If nothing else, it's going to buy you some time..."

The longer he can experience his shame, the longer he will be able to live with his shame (or create a rationalization that will let himself live with it. The goal isn't to solve his problems, but delay him until he can think straight.

4. Media says family murders= financial problems, but the money is merely the cover for the real shame:

The coroner said Mr McFall's fears about his sexual health may have been "going through his mind" when he killed his family, as well as his business worries and concerns over his "social standing".

And from another article:

A computer expert and senior forensic investigator told the inquest he had examined two computers as part of the investigation, one from the McFall's home and the other from his business premises. [An investigator] said someone had been accessing pornography, escort and massage parlour sites and seeking advice for diagnosing HIV.

Illegal activity, affairs, drugs... the money is important because it hides those things, allows him to present himself as something he wants to be.

Sometimes the financial narrative is so compelling it seduces even experienced criminologists. Criminology professor David Wilson:

"They've previously had wealth, had possessions, they went on foreign holidays. The annihilator feels 'given that I can't give my family any of this any longer' as an act of almost mercy, as they would see it, 'I'll take their lives so as to prevent them having experiences of any hardship'."

Wrong, always. It is impossible to think your children are better off dead unless you are unable to see their perspective. If you asked them, what would they say? Why wouldn't you believe them? Why do you think you know better than they do?

They aren't better off dead; you're better off if they're dead. That's the secret that must be undone.

5. SHAME.

"I can't give them what they deserve" is a deflection from "I can't give them what they deserve." The panic is about them becoming aware of your failure.

[the criminologist] believes where they lived was a factor: "Oswestry is a face-to-face society. Those kinds of societies often provide a great deal of support, but if the wheel comes off in this type of society, then everybody knows your business... It's not like they are in a big city where they can simply disappear and become anonymous.

The same applies to honor killings.

The money is most often the final straw; without the money, you can't keep up the appearances...

Murders happen before the exposure, before "everyone finds out." Once they've found out, there is no reason for the murder. So either tell his family, or make him think you have. But then:

6. Sometimes he kills himself, and sometimes he doesn't.

He kills his family because he can't face them knowing. He kills himself because he can't face that they know.

The other reason for the suicide is the sheer number of people who are going to know-- can't kill 'em all.

The likelihood of suicide increases as guilt increases, and decreases the more you can be convinced other people won't know/won't care.

7. A very fine line: it was both spontaneous, and premeditated.

Two years ago another family murder took place near Hugh McFall's town, and McFall was horrified:

I remember Hugh saying 'How could you do that? How can it get so bad that you could do that to your family?... It just doesn't make sense, surely there's other ways out however bad things get?'"

And certainly he wasn't thinking about killing his family before the financial problems hit. But as soon as he decides he's "finished," he starts planning the murders-- weapons/tools obtained, the biggest threat is killed first (i.e. wife before kids), etc.

7. Get out of the house, or at least the bedroom.

75% occur in the home, usually in the bedroom. It is extremely unusual (6%) for the man to kill only the children and not the wife. Since the purpose of this is to avoid shame, leaving the wife alive would be contrary to the point.

If you're the wife, don't go home, especially if he says he'll kill the kids if you don't.

He expands on it a bit in another article:

Quote:There is one predictor; but because familial murders are so uncommon the 50% or so that this one does predict isn't going to get you any mileage. And, unfortunately it predicts precisely because, and only if, it is undetected: the man has a secret.

The article describes how financial problems, loss of a job, etc, are precipitants, but what these murderers have in common is that the financial ruin reveals the Ponzi scheme of their life. He didn't just lose his job; he lost his job and he had debts his wife didn't know about. Or that he was really embezzling the money. Or he lost his job as a bartender so he can no longer pretend he's a bar owner. That's why these men don't murder coworkers, whom they may blame or be jealous of; they murder the people they were trying to deceive.

Hence, the prevention of family murders isn't psychotherapy, it's exposing the lie. They murder because they're afraid they are about to be revealed. You can defuse this by getting past the terror of "about to be." The lie closes you in; having it exposed is painful, but it allows for possibilities, hope.

If you're that guy-- and you know who you are-- own up now because the lies only get bigger. You have already shown yourself to be less than your lie; if it gets bigger, it will be out of your control. You don't know where you'll end up or what you'll be capable of... in ten years.

If you're the wife, subtly make it easy for him to own up, or at least back out. He thinks his main value is in the keeping up of appearances. Repeatedly show him that that ,"the thing," is unimportant to you; show him you love him for something else, hell, in extreme cases suggest to him you've always wanted to live the simple life in Nicaragua.

Or run.

But there are very few things in life that are certain. This is one: if your father or husband tries to kill you, he's not doing it for you.

This'll ruffle some feathers, but -- assuming there is nothing else or conspiratorial in it -- this pathology fits Stephen Paddock, the Las Vegas shooter, pretty well. Guy is in a retirement village, he's had large "transactions" (read: losses) with gambling, no political affiliations, no religion. Using alcohol and drugs doesn't work, but giving away big scads of money says to me he'd had something happen. Something that threatened to expose his life, or he'd had the final epiphany that he was going to die, and that pretty much alone with nothing fulfilled. That sort of pathology has a decent chance of generating the sort of narcissism that sets yourself up to go out being remembered.

God save us from people who mean well. -storm

Post: #22

(12-27-2017 01:32 AM)Paracelsus Wrote:  This'll ruffle some feathers, but -- assuming there is nothing else or conspiratorial in it -- this pathology fits Stephen Paddock, the Las Vegas shooter, pretty well. Guy is in a retirement village, he's had large "transactions" (read: losses) with gambling, no political affiliations, no religion. Using alcohol and drugs doesn't work, but giving away big scads of money says to me he'd had something happen. Something that threatened to expose his life, or he'd had the final epiphany that he was going to die, and that pretty much alone with nothing fulfilled. That sort of pathology has a decent chance of generating the sort of narcissism that sets yourself up to go out being remembered.

Exactly how I see it.

So much so that I'm disappointed to find that nobody has made a "look at me, I'm an attention whore" meme out of Paddock.

Post: #23

Gary Ridgway (The Green River Killer) is the most interesting case to me. He is, to be sure, the most prolific serial killer in American history.

Ridgway's unassuming manner was notable. With Bundy and Kemper, you could see their evil sides coming out. But Ridgway was so ordinary...so forgettable. As a psychologist once said, he looked like "nobody in particular and everybody in general." Perhaps this is why he's been overshadowed by men like Bundy, Ramirez, and Kemper. His personality was so bland by comparison. And therein lies the frightful paradox; that somebody so ordinary can be the most hideous of monsters.

Yet, his upbringing is similar to that of the other serial killers: i.e chronic bed-wetting, emotionally abused by his mother, torturing of animals, etc. Much has been made of these contributing factors. But I think when all is said and done, we're dealing with individuals that are very, very sick. The fact that Gary Ridgway had two brothers that were not serial killers is a testament to the fact that upbringing is not the sole deterrent; that serial killers are, essentially, troubled in their own, unique way. This anomoly points to a chemical imbalance of some sort.

Post: #24

March of the Titans by Arthur Kemp. Must read.

Post: #25

Those points from the last psychiatrist certainly seem appropriate in this brutal family murder case in rural Ireland last year. It's a very tawdry article but the key details are all in there:
https://www.thesun.ie/news/1957194/kille...n-at-work/