Post: #1

https://youtu.be/26fxeKdgSO0
https://youtu.be/Qf9YLjk7ngw

Sexless marriages (or LTRs) if you win. Divorce and Family Court if you lose. Why play this game?

Game is a necessary evil when you are single - those are the minor leagues. Marriage is the big leagues where the stakes are far higher. If you can’t master game when you are single (think of it as training wheels), then you will be destroyed in marriage.

Post: #2

Truthfully, I wonder this too. It seems to me that a lot of people in our community bash marriage and the way the system is set up, yet still undertake it anyway, and then get burned by it repeatedly through multiple divorces.

It seems to me that women are just a compliment to happiness, not a necessity to it. Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely happier with more women as opposed to less.

Maybe someone that's happily married and has been for a long time can explain why they did it, because as a young guy, I just don't see the rationale with the actual divorce rate well over 50% and climbing.

Post: #3

(10-28-2017 07:22 AM)Thought Criminal Wrote:  Sexless marriages (or LTRs) if you win.

What happened to marriage (or LTRs) with children?

Post: #4

I think more and more guys are holding off on marriage and maybe even indefinitely.

Post: #5

I'm married, 35. Why I did it? She is a quality woman (cooks, cleans, takes care of the children and allows me to lead our family). I have a lot of kids and she accepted my entire package (in more than one way). I was a single father before we met. (I have custody of my kids).
Before I ever got married I knew I cannot be a faithful man until well into my 50's. I simply wanted my cake and eat it too. I enjoy living with a quality woman and playing the game on the side.

Post: #6

I'm from a functional family, and have known plenty of other functional families so I'll chime in about the benefits if things work out.
1. There's a magical coziness that makes life better, puts in in perspective, and makes major holidays pure joy.
2. You (in most cases) get to proudly watch your children grow up well.
3. It's the right thing to do. And you know that you're making a HUGE difference in real people's lives. The best and most real way to make the world a better place and fix its problems is to raise a strong family. As much as we enjoy Roosh's websites, without strong families, we're not going to get very far in the culture war. Whether it's crime, politics, health, education, perversion, the erosion of tradition, or the trash of media, the answer to the world's problems is family.
4. Priceless moments like when your kids put their arms around you and tell you they love you.
5. Coming home to home cooked food (part of the cozy magic).
When your wife is cooking or cleaning up, and you give her a break from the kids by playing with them/teaching them.
6. Seeing your awesome, responsible teenagers compared to most teenagers, and seeing the jealousy on the other parents faces.

Post: #7

80% of the worlds marriages are "arranged" or planned
20% of the worlds population believes love is the reason to get married

The theory around planned marriages is the couple working together learn to love each other through a common struggle/purpose to strengthen family

Of course Hollywood begs to differ.....and the result is Divorce and chaos for multitudes of children

The western marriage failures is further infected by feminists and the governments bow to feminists and boost social welfare programs to encourage single parents (mothers) partially as a a real strategy to improve a declining population growth (dying countries). Which isn't working
So the next government strategy is bringing in the breeders (immigrants) which are the very people the feminists hate ..the arranged marriage types, these immigrants are changing the existing culture in the west (except Japan) to there own liking

Remember also a lifelong marriage a 100 years ago may of been 30 years....today it could be 50 to 60 years ...people were not meant to be together that long and few are.

And I wouldn't bother worrying about the dead marriage dream the biggest worry is the decay of even a relationship developing between the sexes. War is Hell being waged on us guys I'm surprised we keep trying...lmao

Post: #8

(10-28-2017 07:22 AM)Thought Criminal Wrote:  https://youtu.be/26fxeKdgSO0
https://youtu.be/Qf9YLjk7ngw

Sexless marriages (or LTRs) if you win. Divorce and Family Court if you lose. Why play this game?

Game is a necessary evil when you are single - those are the minor leagues. Marriage is the big leagues where the stakes are far higher. If you can’t master game when you are single (think of it as training wheels), then you will be destroyed in marriage.

If a man is in a sexless marriage than he is not bringing anything to the table and is likely an ATM machine only.

To be in a sexless marriage, the man has to have given up as well. Women will turn into sexual camels if they know the man is not willing or able to fuck other women. Married men must live on the edge of fidelity. Don't expect your wife to bang you if no other women are willing to either.

Post: #9

(10-28-2017 06:17 PM)Incubus Wrote:  Remember also a lifelong marriage a 100 years ago may of been 30 years....today it could be 50 to 60 years ...people were not meant to be together that long and few are.

That's not even the problem though. It seems like marriages aren't even lasting long enough to get through more than 5-10 years of actually raising the children. Not having an intact family for the second half of a childhood is much more damaging IMO than the first.

Post: #10

(10-28-2017 06:17 PM)Incubus Wrote:  80% of the worlds marriages are "arranged" or planned
20% of the worlds population believes love is the reason to get married

The theory around planned marriages is the couple working together learn to love each other through a common struggle/purpose to strengthen family

Of course Hollywood begs to differ.....and the result is Divorce and chaos for multitudes of children

Yeah that's part of the problem. Marriage isn't supposed to be a hollywood love story. Women now have the expectation that the man they marry is the one they are most attracted to. The reason marriage is so screwed up is because of anti-male and anti-traditionalist influences in hollywood and government, as well as the decline of family which is more of a feedback loop created by the glorification of single motherhood which makes those children more prone to negative influences of society like feminism (of course, by government decree). Also the decline in the religion is another big one. Even by search history between 2004 and now there's been a pretty linear, albeit slow decline in interest in searches like "catholic church" and "religion".

Post: #11

Because an authentic relationship with a quality women is far superior to a lonely life masterbating into tinder 5s.

The value, companionship, love, support and feminine energy an awesome women can bring you is priceless.

Now the problem is you are right, the risks are high, the courts and society stacked against you.

Its in this landscape I wonder the path to take, the way to structure the relationship.

How do you get the benefits without the risk and loss?

Post: #12

The examples of good families I've seen were from the 90s-early 2000s, and things have gotten far worse since then, even in those families. Luckily, I meet so many MGTOWS on campus that it may tip some scales. I never knew any MGTOWS until this year, now it seems like its 1/3 of the younger men I get to know.

I've seen some girls at school (not fat ones, but not the prettiest) who are getting noticeably desperate for young men. Still, I don't think they know what they want long-term, or that they need to play their own unique roles as women. Thus MGTOW will keep growing. People just don't know how to behave. The answer has to involve good media. Media can be used to model good behavior and ideas, acting as another social circle to the female mind. There's music, novels (could be played as audiobooks), movies, TV shows, movies, plays, and non-fiction, with good family values, or at least not such bad ones. The trick is getting a woman to embrace those instead of bad media.

Post: #13

(10-29-2017 12:45 AM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  The value, companionship, love, support and feminine energy an awesome women can bring you is priceless.

Dude, are you drunk?

Post: #14

(10-29-2017 12:45 AM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  Because an authentic relationship with a quality women is far superior to a lonely life masterbating into tinder 5s.

The value, companionship, love, support and feminine energy an awesome women can bring you is priceless.

Now the problem is you are right, the risks are high, the courts and society stacked against you.

Its in this landscape I wonder the path to take, the way to structure the relationship.

How do you get the benefits without the risk and loss?

Many married people still end up feeling lonely as fuck if not miserable, also there's a difference between living alone and actually being lonely. In the real world, most will not find whatever it is that you perceive to be an authentic relationship with "quality women".

Surely someone is bound to win the big Powerball Jackpot lottery but most will never win it (just like a great marriage), so there's no real point in wasting time and money on it. I think men in general are waking up to that fact, so for them the risk is not worth any possible reward. Happiness isn't always about having a woman by your side, it can be so many different things. In fact, if a guy can only feel happy and complete with a woman by his side, then he needs to work on himself.

Post: #15

Honestly you guys who are so jaded and anti-woman should take a trip abroad to a place where the women aren't so jaded and anti-you. Rat is in Thailand... instead of just totally dismissing what he says, take a trip to Thailand and see if your opinion changes!

Post: #16

(10-28-2017 08:28 AM)Cumlluminates Wrote:  I think more and more guys are holding off on marriage and maybe even indefinitely.

The question is whether there is a "marriage strike" or if many men have simply been disqualified as potential suitors.

MGTOW and the libertine PUAs would like to believe that men are beginning to form a relationship cartel in response to women's sex cartel granting sex to anyone apart from would-be husbands. A successful player after all is a man who has broken the cartel and got the goods without paying the tariffs - but only a few years in PUA reveals that the women he is meeting are on the cock carousel anyway - not because of the $100s he has spent on DVDs, books etc.

Saying there is a marriage strike might be like a trade union saying that its members have collectively withdrawn its labour from industry when those who control the means of (re)production have found cheaper, less skilled, migratory, seasonal or automated Chad Thundercocks "hire and fire" labour to allocate sexual capital to when the need arises.

I think a debt-based, anti-wealth generating economic system that we have in the West simply makes men and women unattractive to each other.

Post: #17

(10-29-2017 04:01 AM)the-dream Wrote:  Honestly you guys who are so jaded and anti-woman should take a trip abroad to a place where the women aren't so jaded and anti-you. Rat is in Thailand... instead of just totally dismissing what he says, take a trip to Thailand and see if your opinion changes!

Actually, that's a strategy some guys do use. They go to poor small villages in Mexico and South America in hopes of finding a woman that hasn't been too modernized and corrupted by feminists. But it's still hit-and-miss since as soon as they bring them back to the States, those women can start picking up the same bad traits from their westernized peers and the media.

I guess if a guy is really thirsty for marriage that might be a route they might want to look into and research some more. Roll that dice!

Post: #18

A relationship is not a power up you find in a deviously hidden part of the game map and which instantly makes you go blinking like Mario when he gets the star.
You could find the rarest of unicorns for relationship material and it will still go south if you don't work on it and are willing to accept that shit can happen.

Post: #19

(10-29-2017 04:01 AM)the-dream Wrote:  Honestly you guys who are so jaded and anti-woman should take a trip abroad to a place where the women aren't so jaded and anti-you. Rat is in Thailand... instead of just totally dismissing what he says, take a trip to Thailand and see if your opinion changes!

I agree with this. Where I'm located changes my entire view on women. I don't forget the basic facts, but in Asia, I'm a lot happier and much less bitter around women than when I'm in the states. I'm back in America now, my PSAD is in full effect. Yes, you have to deal with some annoying girls even in Asia and some are out to get you, but because the cards are different, I at least had a higher chance of finding a girl I actually liked spending a lot of time with.

Post: #20

(10-29-2017 04:37 AM)N°6 Wrote:  

(10-28-2017 08:28 AM)Cumlluminates Wrote:  I think more and more guys are holding off on marriage and maybe even indefinitely.

The question is whether there is a "marriage strike" or if many men have simply been disqualified as potential suitors.

MGTOW and the libertine PUAs would like to believe that men are beginning to form a relationship cartel in response to women's sex cartel granting sex to anyone apart from would-be husbands. A successful player after all is a man who has broken the cartel and got the goods without paying the tariffs - but only a few years in PUA reveals that the women he is meeting are on the cock carousel anyway - not because of the $100s he has spent on DVDs, books etc.

Saying there is a marriage strike might be like a trade union saying that its members have collectively withdrawn its labour from industry when those who control the means of (re)production have found cheaper, less skilled, migratory, seasonal or automated Chad Thundercocks "hire and fire" labour to allocate sexual capital to when the need arises.

I think a debt-based, anti-wealth generating economic system that we have in the West simply makes men and women unattractive to each other.

For men it's probably marriage withholding or avoidance because of women's unreasonable high expectations/standards, others simply self-disqualify. "The I'm not good enough for her."

For women it's probably because they feel they deserve the rich/hot guy so they disqualify practically every man around them, thus self-disqualifying themselves to most men. "The I can't find a good man."

The result, most westernized men and women cancel each other out from real relationships and then it's just a cock/pussy carousel. Welcome to modernity!

Post: #21

(10-29-2017 12:45 AM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  Because an authentic relationship with a quality women is far superior to a lonely life masterbating into tinder 5s.

The value, companionship, love, support and feminine energy an awesome women can bring you is priceless.

Now the problem is you are right, the risks are high, the courts and society stacked against you.

Its in this landscape I wonder the path to take, the way to structure the relationship.

How do you get the benefits without the risk and loss?

I think I'm going to change my signature line so I don't have to keep posting this over and over again:

Go with a religious marriage ceremony, if you like. Do not get legally married or live in a jurisdiction with common-law marriage. If you must get married, consult an attorney in your jurisdiction for a pre-nup and divorce-proofing your assets.

Post: #22

Actually younger RVF members are looking to us older RVF members for a solution. Lets try to forget about the fucked up women around us who already know they can "have it all" but don't know what to do with it. Until women hit some sort of bottom in what they want for themselves (which will never happen) this will be a multi generational problem for guys (I mean Homer Simpsons)

Because governments and employers punish guys for travelling to find a nice girl (in a nut shell your a prisoner in your own country)
younger guys are left with few options ( poverty for travel)....student visa is one option (pricey and it commits a guy to one country)

It's amazing how many women and men in other countries travel abroad to work and send money back "remittance" is the term

A few are:
Central and South America
Phillipines
I read yesterday Moldavia (eastern Europe) of all places gets like 24 percent of "money in" from citizens working outside the country

The point being there is a big chunk of the world rejecting living our " unaffordable decaying western dream" that have adjusted to life where the guy is gone for a month or two hunting down meat for the family/girlfriend abroad. No they don't want to live "here" the chick usually wants to live in her own country she just wants a better standard of living for herself

I didn't think of looking for employment that was 3 weeks on 3 weeks off or month on month off back in my day. or jobs that didn't exist like work from home or consulting
We got guys here in Canada that fly back and forth across the country for the oil work camps which is practically the equivalent distance to EE or SA. yet will work for 20 years flying from Calgary to Toronto (skanks) or St Johns Newfoundland (better quality skanks) and few fly a extra few hours to a country where there is everything they dream about.

A guy wants to date abroad (pun?) but basically that's tough with tight vacation schedules....then when you hurriedly pick a chick the governments says you have to marry to bring a chick in....and then government wants you to prove love!!!..then you got to worry if the chick gets polluted by the culture...on and on and on

Most Countries have 90 day in 6 month rule...works perfect for every other month living....some countries have even easier rules.

Spend your working years living a month on and off in countries you think has the best girl material. When you find it the girl there probably will understand already how the relationship will work. The bonus is you don't have to get married, you can take your time on relationships and your where you want to retire already

Thoughts

Post: #23

As far as men checking out of relationships, some of the ones I see are unattractive, some are attractive and either used to, or still pull tail. Its a mixed bag. For example, one guy in class was trying to sleep with the hottest girl, but told me he wouldn't get into a relationship with her because it's too much work and not worth it.
Edit: he said he's been in relationships before. My older brother recently stopped pursuing relationships, and he's always pulled.

Let's face it though, most disqualified men would requalify themselves if women stopped being WGPL (women going plus sized).

Post: #24

(10-28-2017 07:22 AM)Thought Criminal Wrote:  https://youtu.be/26fxeKdgSO0
https://youtu.be/Qf9YLjk7ngw

Sexless marriages (or LTRs) if you win. Divorce and Family Court if you lose. Why play this game?

Game is a necessary evil when you are single - those are the minor leagues. Marriage is the big leagues where the stakes are far higher. If you can’t master game when you are single (think of it as training wheels), then you will be destroyed in marriage.

Marriage can be a beautiful thing, I've seen it. The essential part is that your wife to be, sees you as the greatest man on earth, endlessly admiring you.

Then you have to live up to the part. Generate significant wealth; have supreme confidence and frame; prioritize your work. The less you see your wife the better, but when you do see her make the moment magical - that's what makes marriage work - women want the emotional drama of having to say goodbye to you (business trips) and then the ecstasy of spending beautiful brief moments together. If you do it right and you chose a non slutty woman, she will never cheat.

Your work must be your life; your wife and kids are the icing on the cake.

Post: #25

You don't practice monogamy (don't get legally married) and have a range of women that meet different needs for you?

Women are beautiful and wonderful. Spending time with them can be both beautiful and wonderful. But no woman will make you feel like that forever, which is why so many people get divorced.

Picture this:

You've got your main girl who you really love. Another plate who you like a lot and can do things you like with her, and another plate you think is hot and can have wild sex with. No one woman will be all 3 of these things for you, so why not have 3 who's sum value is everything you want?