Post: #151

(09-30-2017 05:58 PM)nomadbrah Wrote:  

(09-30-2017 03:04 PM)Latinopan Wrote:  Deep down this is why feminists hated him.

Feminists don't hate Hef.

Most of the older ones give him thanks for his relentless work for abortion, gay marriage and women's "sexual liberation".

The younger one's don't like him, but that's because they're religious pious nutters.

No. No. No.

Younger women hate Hugh Hefner because he hangs around and publishes pictures of women better looking,then them.

Older women don't care about his relentless work for anything. They just don't care. They look at the girls in playboy and think " I used to be better looking then her" and that is all.

Aloha!

Post: #152

(09-30-2017 06:59 PM)Conscious Pirate Wrote:  Poor Dan. No-one gets your Sigma jokes.


(I do!)

Post: #153

You guys think Hugh Hefner got good poon by paying for it akin to someone that's desperate?

This is some of the most asinine shit I've heard and comes from not only a place of hate but also from the game wasteland their sorry lives reside in. The same members make asinine statements about game consistently on the forum. Unfortunately they generally stay in the politics related forums and think they somehow built credibility to comment on game. Give it a rest, we know better.

That said THIS TIME they take utterly laughable comments FURTHER by hating against someone whose game was obviously infinitely better than theirs. It is funny to see.

The value of a man and his game will always be a content of his demeanor AND his resources. You don't become an international playboy without having the means to support it. You spend more money, you get better talent. Thats not the same thing as some schmuck buying an escort. It rather means, a drink at a nicer place with a rooftop view or getting cufflinks.

Having such an elementary and overly analytical view of game will never help you. I mean what ..... the .... fuck!

Edit: He was a player gents, deserving of our respect. If you don't see him as a player, I doubt you see yourself as one.

Post: #154

Hugh Hefner.... the only man to die and not go to a better place.

Post: #155

RIP to one of the greats.

I picked up his biography a couple months back, very interesting guy. His early story is one a lot of men can relate to - married the girl, she cheated on him, told him he needed to step up and do something better with this life, and he did. Holy hell, he did. He divorced her, and founded a media empire with a logo known the world over. Half the straight men in the world over the age 30 or so had some coming of age experience with Playboy. He defined the term, helped usher in a cultural revolution, and became and example of a modern day renaissance man. He's also one of the few real people to be featured in a James Bond story. Let's not forget that he also helped launch the careers of Stephen King, among countless others. Truly a legend.

Si Non Oscillas, Noli Tintinnare ("If you don't swing, don't ring").

He also said "militant feminists are unalterably opposed to the romantic boy-girl society that Playboy promotes".

Post: #156

(09-30-2017 07:16 AM)RiderKnight Wrote:  This guy was the definition of "beta bux," buying whores as capital for his pimping business. Also, anyone who watches porn is a cuckold by essence. Also, what this thread has showed me is that the hedonic treadmill is a ride that I don't want to take. Perhaps, if that is the "cardio," we ought to go for the "resistance" instead.

Damn.

Had never thought of it that way.

Damn.

Post: #157

(09-30-2017 04:45 PM)Goldin Boy Wrote:  Hef just wants to sell you a magazine. He couldn't care less if a man improves himself as long your subscription doesn't lapse.

Hef wanted men to succeed with women and have more sex and a better life. The more his readers succeeded in obtaining that lifestyle the more it furthered what he was promoting and the cause for all men. A conservative America with unfulfilled men was not in Hef's interest.

Here's good article about his life, not just the stupid reality show he did when he was 85.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...efner.html

Post: #158

Forney and Chris Bechtloff (an ex-Reaxxion writer) had a livestream going earlier about the Hefner issue:

Post: #159

(09-30-2017 07:58 PM)Cobra Wrote:  That said THIS TIME they take utterly laughable comments FURTHER by hating against someone whose game was obviously infinitely better than theirs.

Edit: He was a player gents, deserving of our respect.

When I look at Hef, I don't see a man with game....I see a lowlife oppurtunist businessman getting rich on the frustrations of men to bed a girl in early days of the rise of toxic feminism. (1950s-1970s)

If he really was a player with game, he sure as hell never shared any useful informaton with men on HOW to game and why it's necessary.

I can watch a single film with Steve Mcqueen or Jack Nicholson and get much better advice on how to be alpha and game and seduce a woman, than from over 50 years of Hef's useless bullshit.

(10-01-2017 01:03 AM)brianmark Wrote:  Hef wanted men to succeed with women and have more sex and a better life.

No, he did not.
Nothing that he ever published told men the methods necessary to succeed,

(10-01-2017 01:03 AM)brianmark Wrote:  The more his readers succeeded in obtaining that lifestyle the more it furthered what he was promoting and the cause for all men.

Bullshit.
Every time a man were to actually achieve anything close to Hef's lifestyle, he would stop paying for anything playboy related.
Hef had to make sure none of the fantasies he sold NEVER came true for any of his customers, lest Hef go out of business.

Post: #160

(10-01-2017 01:03 AM)brianmark Wrote:  A conservative America with unfulfilled men was not in Hef's interest.

Does a conservative America where even betas can marry 18-year-old virgins lead to less fulfilment than today's America?

Post: #161

(09-27-2017 10:58 PM)budoslavic Wrote:  R.I.P.

Blue Pill PUA: Wow, I could have all these women with Game

Red Pill Man: The involuntary celibate men anti-represented by these women is why you now need Game

Post: #162

(10-01-2017 03:31 AM)Mercenary Wrote:  

(09-30-2017 07:58 PM)Cobra Wrote:  That said THIS TIME they take utterly laughable comments FURTHER by hating against someone whose game was obviously infinitely better than theirs.

Edit: He was a player gents, deserving of our respect.

When I look at Hef, I don't see a man with game....I see a lowlife oppurtunist businessman getting rich on the frustrations of men to bed a girl in early days of the rise of toxic feminism. (1950s-1970s)

If he really was a player with game, he sure as hell never shared any useful informaton with men on HOW to game and why it's necessary.

I can watch a single film with Steve Mcqueen or Jack Nicholson and get much better advice on how to be alpha and game and seduce a woman, than from over 50 years of Hef's useless bullshit.

(10-01-2017 01:03 AM)brianmark Wrote:  Hef wanted men to succeed with women and have more sex and a better life.

No, he did not.
Nothing that he ever published told men the methods necessary to succeed,

(10-01-2017 01:03 AM)brianmark Wrote:  The more his readers succeeded in obtaining that lifestyle the more it furthered what he was promoting and the cause for all men.

Bullshit.
Every time a man were to actually achieve anything close to Hef's lifestyle, he would stop paying for anything playboy related.
Hef had to make sure none of the fantasies he sold NEVER came true for any of his customers, lest Hef go out of business.

Typical hate post and utter player hating bullshit representative of the exact issue I mentioned. Yet, I'm not going to just say this without substantiation and walk off like a troll.

So let me get this straight. By this standard of yours since he HAS NOT HELPED other men with specific guidance on game, he HAS NO GAME?

However, Steve McQueen and Jack Nicholson did because they played parts in movies you paid to watch and that was enough for you? I mean your game actually improved by watching these guys play fictional characters on screen. Your statement, not mine. In this case, please tell me how many 7s or 8s you have bedded from this learning. I would like to know.

I actually agree you can learn a lot from these guys but they were also in it for themselves. They have no obligation to other men to teach them game. You just happened to either learn or think you learned from them. Just like Hef. That said, Hef was smart and smooth enough that he singlehandedly made more money from more men than McQueen or Nicholson ever did. What they did was emulate an example for men and that was enough. Hef did the same exact thing but you're mad because he was openly banging hot women and not giving a fuck? Or was it because he put them in magazines naked and made money off of it? There is learning here if you get beyond the hate.

Game is around you as a puzzle to decipher as a man. No one has an obligation to decipher it for you. You can choose to get better at it by using your resources to find the right sources or you can choose to fap to porn or a playboy magazine. Your choice. Don't put that on Hef.

Post: #163

What practical game did you learn from Hef, Cobra? Honest question.

Post: #164

Damn, I miss Hooligan Harry and I wasn't even here when he was around.

Post: #165

(10-01-2017 04:05 AM)N°6 Wrote:  Red Pill Man: The involuntary celibate men anti-represented by these women is why you now need Game

Funny how close this sounds to how rabid feminists talk about male power structures and similar tired drivel.

Post: #166

(09-30-2017 07:58 PM)Cobra Wrote:  You guys think Hugh Hefner got good poon by paying for it akin to someone that's desperate?

This is some of the most asinine shit I've heard and comes from not only a place of hate but also from the game wasteland their sorry lives reside in. The same members make asinine statements about game consistently on the forum. Unfortunately they generally stay in the politics related forums and think they somehow built credibility to comment on game. Give it a rest, we know better.

That said THIS TIME they take utterly laughable comments FURTHER by hating against someone whose game was obviously infinitely better than theirs. It is funny to see.

The value of a man and his game will always be a content of his demeanor AND his resources. You don't become an international playboy without having the means to support it. You spend more money, you get better talent. Thats not the same thing as some schmuck buying an escort. It rather means, a drink at a nicer place with a rooftop view or getting cufflinks.

Having such an elementary and overly analytical view of game will never help you. I mean what ..... the .... fuck!

Edit: He was a player gents, deserving of our respect. If you don't see him as a player, I doubt you see yourself as one.

Well you've outlined why I'm not even bothering to argue with them. It's pretty easy to see who has no game in this thread.

Post: #167

(10-01-2017 05:58 AM)nomadbrah Wrote:  What practical game did you learn from Hef, Cobra? Honest question.

My point: I wasn't ever trying to learn practical game from Hef. I have my own lifestyle and what I know has been learned from many others, especially men on the forum. He just made things more plausible and real for certain men who already had game. These are the men that DID NOT need to buy playboy magazines to wack off. Hef wasn't there to reach. He was there to set an example of what men can achieve. There may be a thin line but difference nevertheless.

He just had lots of poon he leveraged from his resources and that's respectable. His confidence and way he carried himself, also respectable and some could learn from this. A lot of everything else is his own. Hard to replicate especially with no preexisting game.

Post: #168

Merc, this is all hindsight.

People didn't even realize there was such a thing as game on a broad scale until the early 2000's.

In the 70's and 80's most thought that some guys had it and some guys didn't.

Just being a normal guy was enough back then that you still would have some success with women without breaking it down like a nerd and modelling successful guys.

I'm not hating on game, only saying that it wasn't even in the heads of people back then that there was a self help route to the bang.

You would have felt weird back then studying some other dude and imitating him.

The early nerd gamers like Neil Strauss, Mystery, and Owen Cook treated it like a code to break and shamelessly imitated men they saw as successful with women, and traded reports online and came up with methods of seduction.

Overall, a good development because at the same time, women were getting more and more egomaniacal.

Charging Hef with not helping men is like charging Thomas Jefferson with not addressing trans rights. It literally wasn't in anyone's head back then.

I do agree with you there is a seamy side to all this, but I think the mistake you are making is reducing it to the seamy side and failing to see any benefits at all.

I was in my 20's in the 80's and if I or any of my friends thought about Playboy magazine, it was as a nostalgia spank mag from our teens. It just wasn't that big a deal.

That was about the time Hustler magazine came out, and at the time I thought it was truly disgusting, more like a gynecological text than a fantasy of the female.

Save your opprobrium for Flynt and that degenerate publication. He removed everything feminine or mysterious from women, and the cartoons were crass and sucked, and the articles set the stage for every larping lad's mag of today.

He was the prototype for the inhuman pumping porn of today too, hiding behind the fake virtue of free speech.

Like I said earlier, there are far worse archetypes of the Casanova than Hef, and at least he paid top dollar to some great writers and artists.

Post: #169

I have heard men as the question "What did Hefner teach us about game?"

The important thing to realize is that what Hefner actually did was make it feasible to widely distribute naked pictures of women to men. Before then, there were just sleazy magazines like "Stag" that had limited distribution. Hefner made a respectable magazine with naked pictures of the girl next store. It was thus mainstream enough to get it into the distribution in newsstands across America. I saw my first picture of a naked women, when I was with some friends who discovered some playboys in their uncle's addict. Today, seeing a naked woman is totally trivial. Just google it on the Internet. But back then, a network of uncles was the first Internet.

Also, men back then didn't need instructions in picking up women. They just needed the government to stop harassing them. So, a large portion of Hefner's "The Playboy Philosophy" editorial was devoted to discussing the history of sexual repression in America, including the Mann Act and other laws that made premarital sex legally risky. Under the Mann Act, a man could be thrown in prison for taking a woman on a weekend trip for sex. Chuck Berry went to prison under the Mann Act.

Taken from "The Playboy Philosophy"

"Because it is transportation for an immoral purpose that the law forbids, a businessman was
charged with a violation of the Mann Act when, after a few days' vacation in Florida, he became lonely and wired a girlfriend, with whom he had previous relations, to join him there. His wire included the cost of air transportation; she caught the next flight to Miami Beach, and they spent the rest of his vacation there together. At vacation's end, they had a quarrel, but being a gentleman he saw to it that she was returned safely home. Subsequently, on her testimony, the man was charged with and convicted of violating the Mann Act."

Today, we may debate whether the sexual revolution was a disaster. It's true that back then a man could find a wife and get married younger. But also, there were a lot of men trapped in sexless marriages that were hard to get out of with divorce laws based on fault. I wonder how many of the moralizers today would really like to return in the 1950s? There are advantages and disadvantages. Pick your poison.

From "The Playboy Philosophy":

"Naturally, Playboy includes sex as one of the ingredients in its total entertainment and service package for the young urban male. And far from proving that we suffer from a split editorial personality, it shows that we understand our reader and the things that interest him.

When the older magazines offer sex to their readers, it is usually in association with sickness, sin or sensationalism. In Playboy, sex is offered in the form of pretty girls and humor. One approach emphasizes the negative side of sex and the other, the positive. It seems obvious to us which approach is the healthy, the natural and the right one.

If Playboy's approach to sex is sound, then perhaps we are guilty of simply placing too much emphasis on it. We don't think so, however. Most of the other major magazines in America are produced with the same point of view as the typical television program -- they're aimed at an entire household, at everyone and no one. Playboy, by contrast, is edited solely for the young urban male, who naturally has a
little more interest in sex and pretty girls than does a general or family audience. We try to edit Playboy with the adult directness of a good foreign film, the spice and fun of a Broadway show."

The Playboy Philosophy, Hugh Hefner, 1962.

Post: #170

(10-01-2017 05:14 AM)Cobra Wrote:  Typical hate post and utter player hating bullshit representative of the exact issue I mentioned.

Claiming I'm a player hater on an forum practically comprised of 99% players, and with half of my own 2300 posts in the "game" section (and having met over 15 RVF members in real life) is just ludricrous.

(10-01-2017 05:14 AM)Cobra Wrote:  So let me get this straight. By this standard of yours since he HAS NOT HELPED other men with specific guidance on game, he HAS NO GAME?

You can either learn game from another man willing to teach based you on his expierences (such as by reading Roosh's material or the thoughts of the guys on this forum) or you can observe other men by studying his style and interactions when seducing women. With Hef, you could do neither of these things.

Look at Hef in TV interviews through the decades....does he come across as alpha in anything he says or the way he speaks ?
Is this a man you can realistically imitate to have success with women ?

(10-01-2017 05:14 AM)Cobra Wrote:  However, Steve McQueen and Jack Nicholson did because they played parts in movies you paid to watch and that was enough for you? I mean your game actually improved by watching these guys play fictional characters on screen. Your statement, not mine. In this case, please tell me how many 7s or 8s you have bedded from this learning. I would like to know.

Yes, my game did improve by watching these actors. Just as an example, Heartiste (Roissy) wrote an entire blog post with a second by second breakdown of how to learn game from a single scene of a few minutes in a Jack Nicholson movie called "As Good As It Gets". You can read it here:

https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2012/10/...-movies-7/

That one scene alone teaches you more on passing shit tests, acting alpha, self control and reframing arguments, than anything Hef ever brought to the table. The full 5 minute video link is broken, but you can see most of the scene here:





Heartiste did another full blog post on Mcqueen's body language from a single picture here:

https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2013/06/...male-pose/



As for personal notches gained by watching this actors...how the hell would I know ? It's part of an overall red pill re-education. Once you've internalised core game techniques and start banging hotter & younger girls, you stop wondering about which individual details from all that you've learnt got them to open their legs every single time. It's not like I wake up the morning after I've banged out a girl and ask her if it was my Mcqueen-esque body language in the club, or my clever Nicholson-ian reframing during our bar conversation that got her attracted to me.

(10-01-2017 05:14 AM)Cobra Wrote:  That said, Hef was smart and smooth enough that he singlehandedly made more money from more men than McQueen or Nicholson ever did.

I don't recall any game blog in the last decade talking about Hefner as a role model for anything related to the seduction, manosphere or red pill community.

(10-01-2017 05:14 AM)Cobra Wrote:  Hef did the same exact thing but you're mad because he was openly banging hot women and not giving a fuck?

Jealous of a guy who wore pyjamas all day, had 2 divorces and got all his notches due to his unlimited cash and fame, instead of through pure skill ? Right...

(10-01-2017 05:14 AM)Cobra Wrote:  Or was it because he put them in magazines naked and made money off of it?

Yeah, thats is correct.
I take issue with the fact that he was was a ruthless profiteer of men's thrist.
He is not a role model in any way for me.

(10-01-2017 05:14 AM)Cobra Wrote:  Game is around you as a puzzle to decipher as a man. No one has an obligation to decipher it for you. You can choose to get better at it by using your resources to find the right sources or you can choose to fap to porn or a playboy magazine. Your choice. Don't put that on Hef.

If these are the only choices, then why are we all on RVF taking about game related issues every day ?

Post: #171

I doubt there is anything we can learn from Hefner related to the seduction of women. This reasoning is misguided and irrelevant. It is unlikely he ever gave a second thought to improving the lives of men. As others have pointed out, those kind of ideals were not in our collective thinking. He was selling a fantasy and made a fortunate doing it.

This "what has he done for us" thinking is futile and reeks of hating on a man who created an International brand from scratch, made millions, and enjoyed a sex life with beautiful women most of us can only dream of.

What we can learn from Hefner is that money, status and fame always trumps Game. Game is great and vital for men who don't have the aforementioned, but it will always be a grind unless you get your lifestyle to do the work for you.

On another note, Nicholson played some great alpha roles and is likely an alpha in real life. However, this particular role is not one to aspire to. From my recollection (I haven't seen the movie in years) he was a psychologically debilitated man who was socially awkward, a hermit and spent the entire movie chasing a washed-up single mother. Check out: Chinatown, A Few Good Men and The Witches Of Eastwick for roles that are more in line with an Alpha persona.

Post: #172

(10-01-2017 02:52 PM)Dantes Wrote:  What we can learn from Hefner is that money, status and fame always trumps Game.

Post: #173

Can anyone name some girls Hugh banged that weren't pimped out in his mag? Because without that carrot to dangle I don't think he would have gotten many bangs, if any at all. As far as I can research on the net, every single girl that Hugh was married to, or appeared with in public, was a playmate whore.

Game not recognized. Whores are not game. Now, you may respect his ability as a pimp, especially as a nonviolent one utilizing technology and marketing, but pimping is just whoremongering and I have no respect for it. I feel bad for men trapped in the world of whores, and hope they can get out someday. The same goes for women.

Post: #174

Here are Roosh's early positions on whores:

http://www.rooshv.com/sleeping-with-prostitutes

Sleeping With Prostitutes

Quote:About half a dozen guys I’ve met since college have told me their story of sleeping with a prostitute. There was one thing in common with each guy: none of them actually paid for the prostitute, a relative or friend did. All of them made sure to stress that fact, which tells me that the shame isn’t in sleeping with prostitutes, it’s paying for it.
I’m not a fan of the “Well you are paying for sex anyway through dating” argument. Sure you spend money on food or drink with the intent of sleeping with a girl, but sex is never a sure-thing and in the end she sleeps with you because she wants to, not because she thinks she’ll get something immediately after the sex act is done. I agree that there are golddiggers who put out to keep the good times rolling, but I doubt they actually count how many more dinners they will get from one additional instance of sex.

If I’m able to sleep with attractive girls on my own, I can’t imagine a reason or situation where I would pay for one, even if I was about to jam it in. But how about if there is a girl who is incredibly hot and on a level way beyond anything I’ve experienced? If the price was right and she “looked” clean, I would give it consideration until the disease issue would most likely force me to back out. Morally and intellectually, though, I can handle it.

No personal objection in 2007, but rejects the argument that "you pay no matter what."

Is Banging Prostitutes A Worthwhile Alternative To Game?


http://www.rooshv.com/sleeping-with-prostitutes

Quote:In Medellin I met a lot of guys who frequented prostitutes, and I want to talk about the main argument they use to justify their behavior:

You’re paying for it anyway. You have to take her out to dinner and drinks. That costs money and there’s no guarantee you’re going to get laid.

Somewhat reasonable on the surface, but it’s only true for men who don’t have game, where the cost of new pussy acquisition (cost per notch) can be the per capita income of some third world nations (no joke).

If you have solid game, getting laid is incredibly cheap. Most of my lays in the United States are one night stands, and that’s a cost of $0 until you start counting the indirect costs related to existence (true cost per notch). Half of my dates are simply going over to the girls place to bang and many others are where she pays because she knows I’m poor.

Game is like having passive income, where even if you are not currently paying to play, you still have residual pussy that you can fuck for free. With prostitution the moment you stop paying is the moment you stop fucking.

It’s true that learning game is not cheap and takes time, but if you put in at least a year of solid work, you can have a lifetime of scoring pussy relatively easy. It’s like getting a college degree for a job that guarantees full employment until you die. The alternative is not getting the girls you want, whining on men’s rights forums all day long, and having to pay a whore each time you want to fuck. Your only hope of a relationship in that case is a mail order bride (which I’m not bashing but just saying).

The main difference between guys learning game and guys banging prostitutes is laziness. The second is creepiness. Meet a regular john and you’ll understand what I mean—they brag about fucking prostitutes like a college guy brags about fucking a sorority slut. I’ll just say this: if the girl you fucked wouldn’t acknowledge you on the street afterwards, and in most cases would ignore you and pray you don’t recognize her, then I consider your bang to be shameful and something you should keep to yourself.

Extremely negative on whoring here.

Sex Tourists vs. Love Tourists

http://www.rooshv.com/sex-tourists-vs-love-tourists

Quote:Sex tourists go to countries with the explicit goal to pay for sex.
Love tourists go to countries with a goal to date women. This may include sex, casual relationships, and long-term relationships.

Sex tourists do not study game.
Love tourists study game, psychology, and other related fields that help them be more attractive to women.

Sex tourists share tips on where the best whores are located.
Love tourists share tips on where the most feminine women are located.

Sex tourists hate American women.
Love tourists hate American women.

Sex tourists think that all women care about are looks and money.
Love tourists understand that human attraction includes a wide range of variables and factors.

Sex tourists go to a city with a goal to drop cash in brothels.
Love tourists go to a city with a goal to start conversations with attractive women.

Sex tourists pack viagra.
Love tourists pack baking soda.

Sex tourists do not have sex without directly paying for it
Love tourists do not pay money to have sex.

Sex tourists pay for the “girlfriend experience.”
Love tourists get real girlfriends.

Sex tourists learn how to say “How much for one hour?” in the local language.
Love tourists spend months doing Pimsleur language audio courses, sometimes taking university-level classes.

Sex tourists rationalize paying directly for sex as efficient.
Love tourists rationalize not paying for sex as real.

Sex tourists congregate on the internet to share whoremongering stories.
Love tourists congregate on the internet to share city data sheets.

Sex tourists don’t care if there are love tourists around.
Love tourists prefer to stay far away from sex tourists.

Sex tourists would consider getting a mail order bride.
Love tourists wouldn’t consider a mail order bride since he can cultivate real relationships from scratch.

Sex tourists get freebies in the form of an extra 15 minutes from his whore.
Love tourists get freebies in the form of a blowjob in the bushes by a girl who loves Americans.

I don’t blame feminists too much for grouping us with sex tourists since love touristry is at the leading edge of the nascent movement, but if they wish to get into an intelligent debate about why we do what we do, the difference must be respected.

Basically puts whoremongers in totally different categories as players, which is exactly how I see Hugh Hefner. Not part of the game world, just a connoisseur of whores who never stopped his addiction.

Also, interesting thread:

/thread-9018.html

"P4P vs. Paying for everything else"

Post: #175

(10-01-2017 03:08 PM)Samseau Wrote:  Can anyone name some girls Hugh banged that weren't pimped out in his mag? Because without that carrot to dangle I don't think he would have gotten many bangs, if any at all. As far as I can research on the net, every single girl that Hugh was married to, or appeared with in public, was a playmate whore.

Game not recognized. Whores are not game. Now, you may respect his ability as a pimp, especially as a nonviolent one utilizing technology and marketing, but pimping is just whoremongering and I have no respect for it. I feel bad for men trapped in the world of whores, and hope they can get out someday. The same goes for women.

I don't know if Hef had game or not. I suspect his game was more like Hollywood producers or directors "gaming" wannabe stars. I don't think Joss Whedon has game but he probably banged quite a few young stars throughout his years as a director.