Post: #26

(04-28-2017 05:40 AM)Valentine Wrote:  Found this site around vision improvement, looks like it might be the same Jake from earlier:

http://endmyopia.org/

Haven't tried it yet personally but the science behind it is pretty sound, a big part of it is that people are using too strong corrective lenses and that worsens our eyes. We get tested under dark conditions reading distant letters but typically are reading our laptop screens two foot away in bright light. Weaker corrective lenses and some exercises are the solution.

He's got a very active Facebook group too:

https://m.facebook.com/groups/560893680770705

I highly recommend everyone check this guy's page out. This is the red pill of near-sightedness.

Post: #27

His website is a bit of a mess - too much going on. Can someone summarize the method?

Post: #28

I have an eye doctor who is about two hours away. She has given me exercises which have improved my vision. The exercises involved light therapy and coordinating my muscles to work together. She calls it behavioral optometry.

A lot of the stuff within the eye doctor establishment is bull shit. I wish I had known about it years ago. I am sure it would have made a huge difference.

Post: #29

Meh. When it comes to organs as sensitive as eyes, I think I'll pass. I think of these eye exercises and programs the same as penis exercises--high risk for a not-so-certain reward.

Post: #30

I got LASIK and it was one of the best decisions I've ever made. I went with Kraff in Chicago (one of the first doctors in the US to start doing the surgery) on the recommendation of several people and my results were amazing. I'm sure you could get it for much cheaper, but doesn't feel like one of those things you want to save money on!

My mom has some eye trouble, so I did some research, and ordered her some Bilberry supplements. Basically an anti-oxidant for the eye, she says it helped. I've also been thinking about using it, because I use an anti-depressant light box and L-Tryptophan, both of which are supposed to be bad for your eyes. Anyone try this?

Post: #31

(04-29-2017 02:06 PM)Huey Wrote:  Meh. When it comes to organs as sensitive as eyes, I think I'll pass. I think of these eye exercises and programs the same as penis exercises--high risk for a not-so-certain reward.

The techniques on endmyopia.org are extremely low risk. The reward is very high, never needing glasses or contacts again, without surgery? Well worth it.

Dick exercises are a complicated issue, but I will agree. There are guys who take it way too far and end up creating ED, or worse, after doing dick exercises for hours on end. Bathmate too...that shit is risky.

The best dick exercise is weightlifting and a well rounded diet. More bloodflow = bigger dick. Lower bodyfat = less FUPA = dick looks bigger. More cardio stamina = more performance.

Post: #32

(05-06-2017 01:43 PM)redbeard Wrote:  

(04-29-2017 02:06 PM)Huey Wrote:  Meh. When it comes to organs as sensitive as eyes, I think I'll pass. I think of these eye exercises and programs the same as penis exercises--high risk for a not-so-certain reward.

The techniques on endmyopia.org are extremely low risk. The reward is very high, never needing glasses or contacts again, without surgery? Well worth it.

Sure, but every other program promises the same.

I'll admit I haven't read his site in-depth but I've read many books (as well as looked at a few programs) on how to improve your eyesight and all of them are a variation of the Bates' method to some degree, and none of them have worked for me.

Who knows, maybe this guy's method is legit. I'll take your word for it and check out his work, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

Post: #33

Nearsightedness is caused by a structural change to the eye. You can't reverse structural changes to the eye (yet) without surgery. Making your eyes work harder to focus by using a lower prescription or no prescription strains them and in some cases will make your vision worse (not to mention headaches). Same goes with not having a proper prescription (ex: wearing glasses/contacts without astigmatism correction when you have astigmatism).

Also if you have a higher prescription already lasik probably won't give you 20/20, it will usually revert some over time to leave you with a lesser prescription. If it doesn't give you 20/20 it kind of defeats the purpose of taking the risk with the surgery even if chance for side effects or complications are low if you still need glasses/contacts. And once you have the "flap" there's always a risk of eye injury with any type of unexpected contact to the eye.

Post: #34

(10-17-2012 05:14 AM)hnsight_roo Wrote:  Bottom line, it's all just axial growth of the eyeball (myopic growth) to compensate for focusing (ciliary) muscle strain. Induce hyperopic growth (shortening the axial length of the eye), myopia goes down. Then there's the peanut gallery screaming that hyperopic growth isn't possible ... but those guys don't know the power of the Interwebz ... look around the clinical trials site: http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00950924

Nearsightedness isn't 'broken eyes'. It's just a physiological adaption to strain. Eliminate strain, change the stimulus, and plenty of clinical trials affirm that your eye shortens the same way it lengthened. Not so weird, really.

That study is taking children 5-12 years old not adults. They are trying to see if you can stop or reverse early onset myopia/hyperopia in young children while they are growing. This study has not been completed yet either.

You have to be careful about making broad reaching inferences about things like this. That study has zero explanatory power to adults who are already very myopic/hyperopic.

Maybe they figure out a specific type of contact that can reverse light cases of myopia over time but no quack eye exercise programs are going to do it.

Post: #35

I browsed around Endmyopia.org. Good information but it's all over the place, unorganized, and too in depth. I just wanted to get a damn plan of what to do.

Here's the only article that presents the information simply.

The 5 Steps are:

1. Never Wear Your Distance Glasses While Reading.

2. Know How To Take Breaks From Close-Up Work.

3. Always, Always Have Good, Natural Ambient Lighting.

4. Outdoor, Distance Vision Makes For Happy Eyes.

5. Measure Your Eyesight, Begin To Understand What Your Eyes Need.

Pretty straightforward. I floated the idea of buying Endmyopia's course, but at $997, it took a bit of consideration. While I was sitting on the fence, I found this eBook which has gotten great reviews:

The No Bullsh#*t Guide to Vision Improvement - Free eBook (Google Drive link from the author)

It's 18 pages and is AWESOME. Direct, simple, to the point. Only one or two pages of science to let you understand how myopia works, then how to fix it. Highly recommend.

I'll implement the steps and report back.

Post: #36

At the request of Huey I'm going to summarize Cliff's book. Cliff's Cliff Notes, per se.

Please download the full pdf here (FREE).

What causes myopia?

You look at up close shit for too long and your eyes gets stuck on up-close focus. You get glasses so you can see far.

You look at up close shit for too long and your eyes gets stuck on up-close focus. You get stronger glasses so you can see far.

Repeat until dead or blind.

How do you fix myopia?

Start using your eyes like they're supposed to, instead of staring at a screen all day.

1. Measure your vision using a Snellen chart in your house

2. Get differential glasses for up close work. These should be strong enough to be able to read the text, but the horizon will be blurry. I bought a pair that are 1.25D weaker than my prescription, they work great.

3. Decrease your distance glasses (aka normalized) slowly. Remember you are gonna drive in these, so you don't want to start slicing your prescription like crazy. Drop 0.25D at a time and see how it feels.

4. Buy glasses on EyeBuyDirect or Zenni Optical - no prescription required.

5. Get outside during the day as much as possible. Sit next to a window so you can look outside while working.

6. Decrease screen time and take breaks when you do. I use EyeCare chrome extension to remind me to look around.

That's it.

Post: #37

Thanks redbeard, I'll read it. It's been about 4 months since you've been following his routine, right? Have you seen any improvements yet?

Post: #38

(09-19-2017 09:11 AM)Huey Wrote:  Thanks redbeard, I'll read it. It's been about 4 months since you've been following his routine, right? Have you seen any improvements yet?

I was international and couldn't get new glasses until about two months ago. Add to the fact that I'm pretty bad at taking time to use distance vision, I haven't seen much change.

If it makes up for it my eyes FEEL awesome. They used to get dry and irritated looking at the screen so much. Now that I take breaks and use differentials they're much happier.

Slow and steady wins this race.

Post: #39

I'm gonna try it as well and report back. I'll try to do monthly progress logs. I have high myopia (-6.00 both eyes) so it'll probably take a while . Oh well, at least it's less risky than LASIK.

Post: #40

(09-19-2017 09:53 AM)Huey Wrote:  I'm gonna try it as well and report back. I'll try to do monthly progress logs. I have high myopia (-6.00 both eyes) so it'll probably take a while . Oh well, at least it's less risky than LASIK.

My thoughts exactly.

I don't care about wearing glasses. I'd rather do it naturally and be able to help people than spend $4000 on a surgery that may or may not work.

High myopia, you might see a quick drop of 1D if you start practicing good habits. Most often high myopes are super overprescribed, and you'll be able to knock it down rather quickly. Read endmyopia carefully and understand what Jake is talking about.

My glasses were not overprescribed. Actually the last time I went in (before learning about endmyopia) they wanted me to go up 0.5D. I said "why? I can see just fine?" and turned it down. So my glasses are properly prescribed, and I'm only at -2D.

Good luck.

Post: #41

Want to cosign this, redbeard got me on the endmyopia train. First pair of normalized glasses I dropped from
Right (OD) -6.00 -2.25 167
Left (OS) -6.25 -2.50 010
to
Right Eye (OD) -5.25 -2.00 168
Left Eye (OS) -5.5 -2.25 007

It felt great! It's true, the mainstream optometry industry overprescribes the hell out of glasses to give you that crazy vision... for a few weeks. This big a drop feels completely fine. IT WAS UNNECESSARY OVERCORRECTION.

I am now wearing:

Right Eye (OD) -5.00 -2.00 168
Left Eye (OS) -5.25 -2.25 007

and it still feels more or less completely fine. Only words about 40 feet away are blurry, but I need to start restrengthening my eyes' natural focus ability at distance. I turn on flux on all my devices, phones and computers to 3300K during the day, and down to 2300K at night. Cut out that blue light and reduce eye strain. Get a bigger computer and bigger monitors, make the text huge. Stop forcing your eyes to focus on tiny text. Audiobooks and not reading in cars or planes is huge, as focus on a moving object so intently is killer. I'm making sure my mindpower is also aimed at helping my eyes improve, staying extremely positive and very happy about this incredible progress so far.

Soon I will drop another .25 astig from my left eye to equalize so that I can bring it in line with my contacts. Mainstream medical industry BTFO once again!

Post: #42

(09-19-2017 12:51 PM)swuglyfe Wrote:  Want to cosign this, redbeard got me on the endmyopia train. First pair of normalized glasses I dropped from
Right (OD) -6.00 -2.25 167
Left (OS) -6.25 -2.50 010
to
Right Eye (OD) -5.25 -2.00 168
Left Eye (OS) -5.5 -2.25 007

It felt great! It's true, the mainstream optometry industry overprescribes the hell out of glasses to give you that crazy vision... for a few weeks. This big a drop feels completely fine. IT WAS UNNECESSARY OVERCORRECTION.

I am now wearing:

Right Eye (OD) -5.00 -2.00 168
Left Eye (OS) -5.25 -2.25 007

and it still feels more or less completely fine.

BIG jump, did you use a Snellen or just guess to go +0.75D?

Post: #43

Don't go to an optometrist. Go to an ophthalmologist. They tend to be much more conservative when prescribing.

Post: #44

Update: I am now using my differentials full time, since I am working at a computer the whole day. I still felt some eye strain so I am reducing my sphere a tad further.

I am now at:
Right Eye (OD) -4.25 -1.75 168
Left Eye (OS) -4.25 -2.25 007

I have equalized my sphere now, let me right eye take a break for one pair. I increased my astig on my right eye back to 2.25 because contacts only have astig in increments of .5, from 1.75 to 2.25. Thus, I didn't want constant focal plane changes fucking with my eye, just decided to focus on sphere for right now, before I have to jump the right astig down by .5 diopter. I will probably stay at this level for another few months.

Post: #45

Today I started wearing my first pair of fully equalized differentials. Left eye is feeling a bit funky as it adjusts to the sharper cylinder drop but no serious headache or significant blur. This I think I will be stable at for quite some time before making any further moves.

I am now at:
Right (OD) -4.25 -1.75 168
Left (OS) -4.25 -1.75 007

Worth remembering that my original prescription when I started this journey was:
Right (OD) -6.00 -2.25 167
Left (OS) -6.25 -2.50 010

Also worth noting that the 2 full diopter drop is for my differentials, which I wear almost full time anyways, but limits my distance vision on purpose since my job is entirely computer based. My normalized sphere is -4.75.

Post: #46

(05-30-2018 02:09 PM)swuglyfe Wrote:  Today I started wearing my first pair of fully equalized differentials. Left eye is feeling a bit funky as it adjusts to the sharper cylinder drop but no serious headache or significant blur. This I think I will be stable at for quite some time before making any further moves.

I am now at:
Right (OD) -4.25 -1.75 168
Left (OS) -4.25 -1.75 007

Worth remembering that my original prescription when I started this journey was:
Right (OD) -6.00 -2.25 167
Left (OS) -6.25 -2.50 010

Also worth noting that the 2 full diopter drop is for my differentials, which I wear almost full time anyways, but limits my distance vision on purpose since my job is entirely computer based. My normalized sphere is -4.75.

Great work. I'll admit I've been super lazy with this and spending wayyy too much time on the computer.

Post: #47

I have also been trying to improve my vision for years, first with the Bates method, then with a website called gettingstronger.org. Haven't really had much success, but didn't try too hard.

I've since stumbled upon endmyopia.org and Cliff Gnu's free ebook. I've ordered glasses from zennioptical.com for both distance and reading and have corrected them based on Cliff's recommendations. The glasses will arrive in a week. I'm going to try out Cliff's method first in earnest before resorting to buying Jake Steiner's program for $1,200.

Since I was a little fat kid, who wanted to get skinny, I've always enjoyed focusing on self-improvement, especially when it came to various parts of my body. Improving my myopia that I've had since I was 10 has been high on my bucket list, but I would generally give up too easily since the improvements would come so slowly.

Not now. Jake Steiner makes it clear that you'll have some early success the first 90 days, perhaps dropping your prescription by a full diopter. After that it's a slog to reduce your diopters, but if you keep at it, just like with a diet or exercise program, you'll see results.

Based on Jake's, Cliff's and Todd Becker's recommendations I'm doing the following steps:

- Order two pair of glasses, one for reading, one for distance. They will be undercorrected. I will share the settings upon receiving the glasses and beginning the program in earnest.
- Set up a Snellen chart in my condo
- When working on the computer, get up once an hour and walk around a few minutes, looking in the distance. Thankfully I have an office with good light, where I can look in the distance down Park Ave.
- Practice active focus in the distance and print pushing close up, 2x per day, 15 minutes each time. My mistake with print pushing was to try to read while print pushing, which didn't accomplish jack shit. You actually need to focus on a letter, and constantly get rid of the blur. I now know my error and will correct this.
- Try to watch the videos and read the articles on Jake's website. They're all over the place and not in any order, which is likely on purpose and brilliant on Jake's part. He's basically saying that all of the information you need is for free on his website, but it's so disorganized that you can pay me to give it to you in a step-by-step program with some personal coaching on the side.
- Keep striving to reduce my prescription while also reducing my anisometropia.
- I'll be making a log here each time I reduce my prescription. I expect this process to last three years.

Post: #48

I used to wear glasses for short-sightedness but I don't wear them any more.

What helped me was the book "The Secret of Perfect Vision" by David De Angelis. The author advises that short or long sightedness can be corrected by training the eye muscles. According to him, the eye muscles can be trained in the same way as you might train your chest or leg muscles through progressive resistance training.

He developed a eye workout based on the following exercises:
1. Rotating your eyeballs to look at four corners.
2. Focusing on a fixed object in front and rotating your head whilst keeping eyes focused on the object.
3. Staring at text which is just outside your range of focus - so it's just starting to become blurry - and trying and force your eyes to focus until the text becomes clear

He also recommends getting training glasses to increase the resistance of the third exercise. If you're shortsighted, your training glasses should be calibrated for longsighted vision. If you're longsighted, your training glasses should be calibrated for shortsighted vision.

Sounds like bullshit, perhaps.

Well I followed his routine every day. I got myself some training glasses to start with but I later discarded them. I just stared at text that was far enough away to be slightly blurry and tried hard to focus for a few seconds.

I kept this up for several months and my eyesight started to improve. When I started, I wasn't able to read the text on my laptop screen unless I moved my face about 30 cm from the screen. Now I can comfortably read the text from 60 cm away. I'm still shortsighted but I can get away with not wearing glasses.

The only time I would really need to wear glasses these days is if I'm watching a foreign film at the cinema and I need to read the subtitles.

Post: #49

(05-31-2018 11:17 AM)PUA_Rachacha Wrote:  I have also been trying to improve my vision for years, first with the Bates method, then with a website called gettingstronger.org. Haven't really had much success, but didn't try too hard.

I've since stumbled upon endmyopia.org and Cliff Gnu's free ebook. I've ordered glasses from zennioptical.com for both distance and reading and have corrected them based on Cliff's recommendations. The glasses will arrive in a week. I'm going to try out Cliff's method first in earnest before resorting to buying Jake Steiner's program for $1,200.

Since I was a little fat kid, who wanted to get skinny, I've always enjoyed focusing on self-improvement, especially when it came to various parts of my body. Improving my myopia that I've had since I was 10 has been high on my bucket list, but I would generally give up too easily since the improvements would come so slowly.

Not now. Jake Steiner makes it clear that you'll have some early success the first 90 days, perhaps dropping your prescription by a full diopter. After that it's a slog to reduce your diopters, but if you keep at it, just like with a diet or exercise program, you'll see results.

Based on Jake's, Cliff's and Todd Becker's recommendations I'm doing the following steps:

- Order two pair of glasses, one for reading, one for distance. They will be undercorrected. I will share the settings upon receiving the glasses and beginning the program in earnest.
- Set up a Snellen chart in my condo
- When working on the computer, get up once an hour and walk around a few minutes, looking in the distance. Thankfully I have an office with good light, where I can look in the distance down Park Ave.
- Practice active focus in the distance and print pushing close up, 2x per day, 15 minutes each time. My mistake with print pushing was to try to read while print pushing, which didn't accomplish jack shit. You actually need to focus on a letter, and constantly get rid of the blur. I now know my error and will correct this.
- Try to watch the videos and read the articles on Jake's website. They're all over the place and not in any order, which is likely on purpose and brilliant on Jake's part. He's basically saying that all of the information you need is for free on his website, but it's so disorganized that you can pay me to give it to you in a step-by-step program with some personal coaching on the side.
- Keep striving to reduce my prescription while also reducing my anisometropia.
- I'll be making a log here each time I reduce my prescription. I expect this process to last three years.

I'm excited to hear you've joined the movement.

Jake's website and videos are all over the place, which is why I like cliffgnu's resources. He's straight and to the point.

Please keep us updated on your research and progress.

Post: #50

Ok, I received my distance and reading glasses this weekend, have now begun wearing them full time.

First, my eyeglass prescription written out by my ophthalmologist:

OD: -4.25 -0.50 x 160
OS: -4.75 -0.50 x 030

I've ordered the following distance glasses and reading glasses from Zenni:

Distance:
OD - Right (SPH) -4.0 (CYL) -0.25 Axis 160.0
OS - Left (SPH) -4.25 (CYL) -0.25 Axis 30.0

Reading:
OD - Right (SPH) -3.0 (CYL) 0.0 Axis 0.0
OS - Left (SPH) -3.25 (CYL) 0.0 Axis 0.0

I've also begun doing print pushing, at least once a day. I'll keep you updated after I've made improvements.