Post: #1

So I been in the game for a bit now following red pill, mgtow, and pick-up community for a long ass time.
A huge fan of Roosh V and RSD.

So I read this article,
http://www.rooshv.com/how-many-notches-is-enough
and it says that you need 25 lay counts in America to have a decent/solid grasp of women/dating/pick-up, etc...

However, wouldn't it depend on the quality or the hotness of the girl also?
And if I am Asian (Korean), wouldn't that put me in disadvantage and maybe banging 20 girls will get me same amount of experience or even more experience and gain more knowledge?

Wouldn't also my taste in women change the lay count needed?
I am mostly into Asians and people are saying that they are easier? Is this true as an Asian? I feel like most of them have higher ASD.
Wouldn't also online dating apps make a difference? I been getting some bangs from there pretty easily this year, already got 3 this year.

Thoughts? I am a little bit lost.
I just got into 2 digits of lay count fyi, have done 1.5k approaches, been in the game for 3 years, was a hardcore newbie, now girls start to call me a player. (Nothing to brag about, just trying to tell you guys what level I think I am, I also get laid more than my main social circle.)

TBH I am more jaded than some other fuckers because I have had 2 GFs who told me that they love me, need me, never leave me, that I gave them the best sex and they will NEVER EVER leave me, but then when I broke up with them to have some "space", they either branch swung the very next day (idk maybe same day, who the fuck know honestly) and reverse branch swung back to me when I wanted to get back into a relationship. So I am jaded as fuck and going to out at night and making out with chicks and I had a one night stand with a chick who had a bf,,,so I am not sure. I feel like I am more jaded than guys who have 20 or even 30 lays.

Post: #2

(07-18-2017 11:04 PM)bgbusiness Wrote:  I just got into 2 digits of lay count fyi, have done 1.5k approaches, been in the game for 3 years.

What age are you? Are you approaching during the day? And by two digits you mean what, ten? So that's 1:150 in three years. Something's wrong here. Get an experienced wingman to observe your approaches.

Post: #3

(07-18-2017 11:12 PM)churros Wrote:  

(07-18-2017 11:04 PM)bgbusiness Wrote:  I just got into 2 digits of lay count fyi, have done 1.5k approaches, been in the game for 3 years.

What age are you? Are you approaching during the day? And by two digits you mean what, ten? So that's 1:150 in three years. Something's wrong here. Get an experienced wingman to observe your approaches.

I think my 1st year, I didn't use enough of wings.
Also, I was a hardcore case newbie, I was a virgin and had almost zero friends when I first started.
First 2 years, I don't think I was going hardcore in game since I was still in school, I am 24 right now.
My last few hundreds of approaches, I been getting lays probably 1/150 of approaches. A lot of close calls, that I feel like I should have gotten laid also. Yeah. 10 different chicks right now. Had multiple short-term (2 weeks~2months) to mid-term (6months) relationships, so that was a lot of learning about women also imo.
This year has been my best year (every year has been tbh since I been getting better and better), I have got 5 lays so far this year, I am aiming to hit 10 lays this year.

Post: #4

25 lays because you will experience a full range of personalities and what girls want from you from ONS, fuck buddy, LTR, cheating on their BF, they are trying you as their first kind of guy (hipster, black, jacked, tatted, long hair, super tall, wordly whatever), foreign girl, girls of different races, sluts, virgins , rich, poor, educated, street etc...

Post: #5

So my preference doesn't really matter?
25 girls because that's enough of a sample size?

Post: #6

Don't get frustrated. You are off to a good start. Listen to Tony Robbins talks on youtube about changing your state of mind. It will help.

Post: #7

(07-18-2017 11:04 PM)bgbusiness Wrote:  So I been in the game for a bit now following red pill, mgtow, and pick-up community for a long ass time.
A huge fan of Roosh V and RSD.

So I read this article,
http://www.rooshv.com/how-many-notches-is-enough
and it says that you need 25 lay counts in America to have a decent/solid grasp of women/dating/pick-up, etc...

However, wouldn't it depend on the quality or the hotness of the girl also?
And if I am Asian (Korean), wouldn't that put me in disadvantage and maybe banging 20 girls will get me same amount of experience or even more experience and gain more knowledge?

Wouldn't also my taste in women change the lay count needed?
I am mostly into Asians and people are saying that they are easier? Is this true as an Asian? I feel like most of them have higher ASD.
Wouldn't also online dating apps make a difference? I been getting some bangs from there pretty easily this year, already got 3 this year.

Thoughts? I am a little bit lost.
I just got into 2 digits of lay count fyi, have done 1.5k approaches, been in the game for 3 years, was a hardcore newbie, now girls start to call me a player. (Nothing to brag about, just trying to tell you guys what level I think I am, I also get laid more than my main social circle.)

TBH I am more jaded than some other fuckers because I have had 2 GFs who told me that they love me, need me, never leave me, that I gave them the best sex and they will NEVER EVER leave me, but then when I broke up with them to have some "space", they either branch swung the very next day (idk maybe same day, who the fuck know honestly) and reverse branch swung back to me when I wanted to get back into a relationship. So I am jaded as fuck and going to out at night and making out with chicks and I had a one night stand with a chick who had a bf,,,so I am not sure. I feel like I am more jaded than guys who have 20 or even 30 lays.

Do you mean you've made 1500 face to face approaches or does that include online sending someone a message on a dating app?

Also, when you break up with a chick don't expect them to become a nun untill you want them back.

Post: #8

(07-25-2017 03:19 PM)Svoboda Wrote:  Do you mean you've made 1500 face to face approaches or does that include online sending someone a message on a dating app?

I have only matched on dating apps with bout 50 women or so I would say, for some reason, my conversion ratio seems to be pretty good compared to others, but maybe I been lucky.

Yes, 1.5k cold-approach. Face to face on the streets. 1.15~1.2k daygame. Chicago. 3k nightgame.
I would say about 500 approaches per year. Not a huge number. Some weeks I will do 50 approaches, some weeks 0 when I was busy with school and personal life. And like I have mentioned, I was a HARDCORE case newbie.

(07-25-2017 03:19 PM)Svoboda Wrote:  Also, when you break up with a chick don't expect them to become a nun untill you want them back.

True.

Post: #9

(07-25-2017 02:39 AM)BlackFriar Wrote:  Don't get frustrated. You are off to a good start. Listen to Tony Robbins talks on youtube about changing your state of mind. It will help.

Thanks, Tony is a beast.

Post: #10

I think it's also worth pointing out that when RooshV wrote that, Dating apps were not really around. So for a man to get more "experience" through apps, you may not be only getting experience through the lens of Tinder/Bumble, etc... and thus limiting the kinds of girls you'll be with, since women have all of the selection power. You'll never get the chance to be with a girl who would have never otherwise "swiped right" on you, except you got her attention in person.

This isn't necessarily a critique of apps, just a statement to be mindful that it may be limiting the kind of experience and variety you get through it.

Post: #11

(07-25-2017 04:03 PM)bgbusiness Wrote:  Yes, 1.5k cold-approach. Face to face on the streets. 1.15~1.2k daygame. Chicago. 3k nightgame.
I would say about 500 approaches per year. Not a huge number. Some weeks I will do 50 approaches, some weeks 0 when I was busy with school and personal life. And like I have mentioned, I was a HARDCORE case newbie.

Dude! If you are still school age and doing that many approaches, have you tried the Metra Train station(Union) after like 8pm? All the school age girls can't get into bars so they hang in Chicago during the day and go home later in the night waiting for a Metra train. Just hang out there in the station. There are ALWAYS girls that get their early and waiting around for the train. There's a LOT of cute ones and several have given me IOI's but I'm a bit too old for them. I probably know their parents. LOL

Also have you been hanging at all the local festivals around Chicago? Those are good too.

Post: #12

(07-18-2017 11:04 PM)bgbusiness Wrote:  SNIP

All these factors are pretty negligible.

Fucking 20 HB 9's isn't going to be the equal of fucking 25 6's.
Sure the former will be more fulfilling than the latter, but there are way too many outward factors to put it in such directly proportional terms.

Also most game/PU material was developed for white guys, so the Asian easiness thing isn't such a hard and fast rule. By worldwide (even Western) measures, it's hardly a truism.

Where I live, the greater majority of Asian girls are either open to or outright prefer dating Asian men. You do have a proportion of Anna Lus, of course, but they're hardly the majority. What works for my city may not work for Chicago.

As for the guy's race? It's nowhere near as much of a handicap as you might think. I'm not into Asians (black and Latina girls aren't a priority for me either at the moment — yes my preferences are really vanilla now lol), and all my notches are white, so you'd think I'd have been battling like a mofo. Not really, in empirical terms.
Depending on the sorts of circles they roll in, I'd go as far as to say that man-for-man, an Asian guy isn't as sexually disadvantaged as a white one. This is in my city though and it depends where you lived. There are loads of Asian dudes that are more plugged into white social circles — that have the same tastes in fitness,sports, travel, F&B and creative cultures — that shouldn't have issues in pulling regularly.
Isn't Chicago supposed to be really Asian-friendly city? The coolest and best-looking American girls I've approached have been from the Midwest. Also context is key. Your writing comes across like English isn't your first language. If FOB Asian dudes here prefer white girls, often times they'd be scoring with Europeans (obviously an upgrade over our local women lol).

How old are you? I just hit the 10-digit lay mark at 4 flags myself and feel like I could've surpassed this milestone over half a decade ago (I'm 28). However I hasn't given me the spectrum of girl experience that Travesty mentioned.

Post: #13

(07-27-2017 03:13 AM)JWLZG Wrote:  All these factors are pretty negligible.

I see. I think you are right.

(07-27-2017 03:13 AM)JWLZG Wrote:  What works for my city may not work for Chicago.

Agreed, different things work for different locations.

(07-27-2017 03:13 AM)JWLZG Wrote:  Depending on the sorts of circles they roll in, I'd go as far as to say that man-for-man, an Asian guy isn't as sexually disadvantaged as a white one. This is in my city though and it depends where you lived. There are loads of Asian dudes that are more plugged into white social circles — that have the same tastes in fitness,sports, travel, F&B and creative cultures — that shouldn't have issues in pulling regularly.

Yeah, been dropping a lot of chodes from my social circle, been networking with more player guys in my school, but it's kinda hard when you are the guy getting laid the most in your social circle and you try to network with like black dudes or white dudes. Idk, my school is like high school 2.0. Super cliche. I mostly try to hang out with Americanized Asians who get somewhat pussy and couple normal (not super alpha) white dudes who bang chicks here and there.

(07-27-2017 03:13 AM)JWLZG Wrote:  Isn't Chicago supposed to be really Asian-friendly city? The coolest and best-looking American girls I've approached have been from the Midwest. Also context is key. Your writing comes across like English isn't your first language. .

Depends, I would say NY is more Asian-friendly city, but I been there for only 10 days, so I wouldn't know 100%, but you are right, Chicago is still one of the best cities to game, a lot of smart, classier chicks. Yeah. I am an immigrant from Korea and English is my 2nd language and also I don't check my grammar, I just type and comment because I am lazy, so it be easy to spot that English isn't my first language. lol.

(07-27-2017 03:13 AM)JWLZG Wrote:  How old are you? I just hit the 10-digit lay mark at 4 flags myself and feel like I could've surpassed this milestone over half a decade ago (I'm 28).

I just turned 24, I feel the same actually feel like I could have easily hit 10 digit lay mark when I was in high school.

Post: #14

(07-26-2017 12:32 PM)chitown72 Wrote:  Dude! If you are still school age and doing that many approaches, have you tried the Metra Train station(Union) after like 8pm? All the school age girls can't get into bars so they hang in Chicago during the day and go home later in the night waiting for a Metra train. Just hang out there in the station. There are ALWAYS girls that get their early and waiting around for the train. There's a LOT of cute ones and several have given me IOI's but I'm a bit too old for them. I probably know their parents. LOL

Haha, yeah. A little bit. I have done them, but it just didn't seem natural and congruent for me if I just wait around and approach on the train stations, but when I was in Chicago working, I used to do them a little bit and it was actually pretty natural because I was either going to work or going back home, so I was genuinely incorporating approaching/game into a part of my lifestyle. I would definitely do them again later.

(07-26-2017 12:32 PM)chitown72 Wrote:  Also have you been hanging at all the local festivals around Chicago? Those are good too.

Yeah, I have went to Spring Awakening and other electronic concerts or festivals and got some make outs, but it's hard to SDL in those venues and phone numbers just get lost into their subconscious mind, one of my wings who was killing it in the game, getting lays left and right told me just enjoy the venue and he doesn't really game around concerts/festivals.

But if it works for others, that's awesome, I might try again, but I been getting more results in clubs/bars or just pure daygame.

Post: #15

OP,

So you're in highschool with 10+ lays? You are in great territory starting off better than many men on the forum did.

What I suggest. Slow down on just gaming women. If you're that young you should focus on building yourself as a man, building great friendships, building a fun and interesting life. If you do that girls will come in organically and if you see a girl you like bring her into that world. If she doesn't want to come, her loss. Build your life first and if a chick comes your way bring her/them in.

Post: #16

(07-29-2017 06:43 AM)realologist Wrote:  OP,

So you're in highschool with 10+ lays? You are in great territory starting off better than many men on the forum did.

My bad, my grammar and spelling has been shit on this thread and I didn't realize that I can't edit them after 1 hour. LOL.
I just turned 24. I will be senior in my university in upcoming fall.
1 more year left. I might do masters degree, but I am not 100% sure even though it's only one more year.

(07-29-2017 06:43 AM)realologist Wrote:  What I suggest. Slow down on just gaming women. If you're that young you should focus on building yourself as a man, building great friendships, building a fun and interesting life. If you do that girls will come in organically and if you see a girl you like bring her into that world. If she doesn't want to come, her loss. Build your life first and if a chick comes your way bring her/them in.

For sure, that's what I have been thinking, I need to build myself in my 20s and 30s.
Thanks for your input, appreciate it.

Post: #17

(07-29-2017 06:32 PM)bgbusiness Wrote:  I just turned 24. I will be senior in my university in upcoming fall.

Have you ever hung out at the Starbucks across the street from the Art Institute? A lot of girls and tourists that go there and easy to game.

I saw this one younger mid 20's Korean dude the last date I was meeting there. He saw me come in and immediately go over to this girl and hug her before getting in line to order a cup of coffee. As I started to get in line, this guy knew exactly what was up and gave me a smirk and a nod. That wasn't you, was it? LOL

Post: #18

Couple things here.

1.) The article you are citing is merely a generalization - sort of like how if you practice something for 10,000 hours you will "master" it. Banging 25 different women generally will give you enough experience with females to be decent at interacting with them and bedding them. Don't need to get anal about it like "well what if I'm X race" "have a preference for X girls" "Only bang X/10's" - It doesn't matter what kind of cars you like, what kind of car you drive everyday, or how new/old the cars you like are - if you do 25 engine swaps you will likely get pretty decent at working on cars.

2.) You have approached 1,500 different women and only fucked 10 of them? You need to work on your game. Hell, even if I direct approached 1,500 women and was straight up like "I think you're hot and want to have sex with you" I'd probably bang at LEAST 25 of them just by dumb luck. At least you are putting in work but that many approaches with such a bad ratio of results means you haven't been making enough changes or adapting your game to get better results.

If you are in college then go to parties. Hit up freshmen girls. Those 18/19 year olds are finally out of the nest and looking to get wild.

Post: #19

(07-31-2017 05:19 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  1.) The article you are citing is merely a generalization - sort of like how if you practice something for 10,000 hours you will "master" it. Banging 25 different women generally will give you enough experience with females to be decent at interacting with them and bedding them. Don't need to get anal about it like "well what if I'm X race" "have a preference for X girls" "Only bang X/10's" - It doesn't matter what kind of cars you like, what kind of car you drive everyday, or how new/old the cars you like are - if you do 25 engine swaps you will likely get pretty decent at working on cars.

I'd say somewhere between 10-15 you will start to figure things out.
Around 20-30 you will figure out that you didn't have shit figured out at 10-15.
from 10-15 you will also see how grimy women can be.
Somewhere in 15-25 you will have an encounter a girl truly shows you how grimy women really are and show you that what you thought was dirty about women at 10-15 really wasn't that bad by comparison.

If you've managed to fuck 25+ women in a timely manner then you're probably heavy enough in the game to accept the game truths you witnessed along the way and are capable of deciphering enough of the bull shit women throw at you.

Post: #20

(07-31-2017 01:28 PM)chitown72 Wrote:  Have you ever hung out at the Starbucks across the street from the Art Institute? A lot of girls and tourists that go there and easy to game.

Sure, I have.
I have done a lot of approaches in downtown Chicago when I wasn't in school.

(07-31-2017 01:28 PM)chitown72 Wrote:  I saw this one younger mid 20's Korean dude the last date I was meeting there. He saw me come in and immediately go over to this girl and hug her before getting in line to order a cup of coffee. As I started to get in line, this guy knew exactly what was up and gave me a smirk and a nod. That wasn't you, was it? LOL

If recently, probably not. Haha.
(However, I would love to meet other Chicago guys in the game from this forum.
Currently, I am in summer school and my school is too far away from downtown, so perhaps during winter or next summer.)

Post: #21

(07-31-2017 05:19 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  1.) The article you are citing is merely a generalization - sort of like how if you practice something for 10,000 hours you will "master" it. Banging 25 different women generally will give you enough experience with females to be decent at interacting with them and bedding them. Don't need to get anal about it like "well what if I'm X race" "have a preference for X girls" "Only bang X/10's" - It doesn't matter what kind of cars you like, what kind of car you drive everyday, or how new/old the cars you like are - if you do 25 engine swaps you will likely get pretty decent at working on cars.

Ah, makes so much more sense. Lol.

(07-31-2017 05:19 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  2.) You have approached 1,500 different women and only fucked 10 of them? You need to work on your game. Hell, even if I direct approached 1,500 women and was straight up like "I think you're hot and want to have sex with you" I'd probably bang at LEAST 25 of them just by dumb luck. At least you are putting in work but that many approaches with such a bad ratio of results means you haven't been making enough changes or adapting your game to get better results.

Yeah, I was a hardcase newbie, no friends, virgin, fucked up childhood, etc..you name it. Will continue to work on more analyzing.

(07-31-2017 05:19 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  If you are in college then go to parties. Hit up freshmen girls. Those 18/19 year olds are finally out of the nest and looking to get wild.

For sure.
I did notice them losing their innocence very quickly after entering college.

Cheers.

Post: #22

(07-25-2017 04:03 PM)bgbusiness Wrote:  

(07-25-2017 03:19 PM)Svoboda Wrote:  Do you mean you've made 1500 face to face approaches or does that include online sending someone a message on a dating app?

Yes, 1.5k cold-approach. Face to face on the streets. 1.15~1.2k daygame. Chicago. 3k nightgame.
I would say about 500 approaches per year. Not a huge number. Some weeks I will do 50 approaches, some weeks 0 when I was busy with school and personal life. And like I have mentioned, I was a HARDCORE case newbie.

That is a lot of approaching. Apart from the pros making money off of this you're in the upper 1% of people reading this forum (excluding posters), and 0.01% of dudes trying to get some in general.

That being said, don't rest on your laurels. If you have a fear of not approaching enough and it's motivating, then you're on the right track.