Post: #26

Birth rate has to be high or an outbreak one of their many diseases could whipe out your whole family. The government isn't taking care of these farmers when they get old, they rely on family members. So you better hope that you have enough kids that will survive long enough to take care of you when your old. 2-3 is likely not going to cut it. .. say one dies of disease, one is a female and moves with the mans family, and now you are pinning your hopes on your last son. Fuck that, better have another kid.

Perhaps if our government stopped all programs for the old and retired and required family members to take care of them, our birth rates could be boosted too

It is nice to see that the birthrate is declining as the country is becoming more developed. I would expect this trend to continue as long as the country makes progress. These countries are all still extremely young, shocking to think there are posters on this forum older than most African countries.

Anyway, I'm just repeating back what people I have known from 3rd world countries have told me, I'm sure I'm missing alot of points.

Post: #27

Colombians grow cows, cocoa, and coffee. Yet you can't get a ribeye, decent chocolates, or good coffee there. Well, you can still go to Starbucks, but what sort of jackass would go to Starbucks?

Post: #28

Men who have served in the infantry, worked heavy construction, or done any other rough work that is 100% male, will understand why these men are so happy go lucky: there are no women around. You either do you job or you're gone.

There's a special comradery that takes place when you're doing manual -sometimes menial, labor all day with the same men. You get to know them more than some of your family members because you're with them 6-7 days a week.

I've seen it in the military and in the trades. It's a sight to see.

Some of these boys have god damn sledgehammers for fists too.

Post: #29

(05-18-2017 04:38 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  Not many fat people in that vid.

That's because it's "dark" chocolate.

Post: #30

(05-18-2017 08:09 PM)scorpion Wrote:  From our perspective these guys have nothing. They're illiterate peasants who do manual labor all day in the tropical heat. But they seem rather content with their lot, jolly even. It's very interesting to see. It makes you realize that we are the weird ones (we, meaning people living with the benefit of advanced technology in Western countries). We're the ones completely out of step with the vast majority of human beings who ever lived, whose lives had much more in common with these happy cocoa farmers than they did with ours...

... For these guys, and for most humans who ever lived, there was only life and death. And as long as you were on the right side of that equation, you were feeling pretty good. That's all it took. There was no existential angst or finding oneself or search for greater meaning. Living was meaning enough. There's something very refreshing about that. It's been almost entirely lost to us, and we suffer for that.

There's a happy middleground in between that doesn't involve an average life span of 50 years, perpetual disease and war, malnutrition and stratospheric levels of infant mortality.

I kind of like being able raise a family with the expectation that I'm not going to come home from the cocoa farm to find their limbs hacked off by a new militia. I'm really not certain that having no hands and begging for a living would still allow my sons to be happy because they were still in the right side of the living/dead equation, much less myself having to witness that.

Rest assured that still waters often run deep. Chokumbo might seem happy in his day to day life but we should all be painfully aware by now that for some reason he's remarkably prone to mobbing up at the drop of a hat and slaughtering large numbers of people down the road on the flimsiest of pretences. With that in mind you will not find me romanticising the savages.

Yes, we westerners need to fuck and breed a bit more. Yes, we need to unplug and smell the roses a bit more often. What we don't need is to laud a day to day YOLO lifestyle. The third world is the third world for a reason, and there's no shortage of "happy" Africans desperate to flock to our bitter and soul-less societies.

Post: #31

(05-18-2017 08:34 PM)BrewDog Wrote:  Colombians grow cows, cocoa, and coffee.

How do you grow a cow? Do you plant it in the ground and water it daily?

Post: #32

(05-18-2017 08:34 PM)BrewDog Wrote:  Colombians grow cows, cocoa, and coffee. Yet you can't get a ribeye, decent chocolates, or good coffee there. Well, you can still go to Starbucks, but what sort of jackass would go to Starbucks?

You can get a decent ribeye. Check out San Carbon @ Las Palmas.

Post: #33

(05-18-2017 09:24 PM)Suits Wrote:  

(05-18-2017 08:34 PM)BrewDog Wrote:  Colombians grow cows, cocoa, and coffee.

How do you grow a cow? Do you plant it in the ground and water it daily?

I've seen all types of cows in Colombia. Some of them are little and some big. I can only assume the big ones came from little ones. Maybe a cow farmer in Colombia can tell us about how this works. I just assumed it was the same process as happens in America.

Post: #34

(05-18-2017 09:23 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  I kind of like being able raise a family with the expectation that I'm not going to come home from the cocoa farm to find their limbs hacked off by a new militia. I'm really not certain that having no hands and begging for a living would still allow my sons to be happy because they were still in the right side of the living/dead equation, much less myself having to witness that.

Rest assured that still waters often run deep. Chokumbo might seem happy in his day to day life but we should all be painfully aware by now that for some reason he's remarkably prone to mobbing up at the drop of a hat and slaughtering large numbers of people down the road on the flimsiest of pretences. With that in mind you will not find me romanticising the savages.

Yes, we westerners need to fuck and breed a bit more. Yes, we need to unplug and smell the roses a bit more often. What we don't need is to laud a day to day YOLO lifestyle. The third world is the third world for a reason, and there's no shortage of "happy" Africans desperate to flock to our bitter and soul-less societies.

There are also plenty of Africans (and Filipinos, and Mexicans, etc.) who make no effort to leave. The ones who try to come here have done a comparison of how they fit into both cultures and decided they'd be less disgruntled in the first world. The rest decide they'd be happier at home. A lot of immigrants also decide to go back to the third world after they've been here awhile.

In the modern world, you might not have to worry about militias hacking off your family members' limbs, but you do have to worry about your wife frivorcing you. It leaves a lot of men and their kids emotionally scarred. You can say, "Well, I can only do so much to prevent frivorce, so I'm just going to enjoy the moments in which I do have my family." Africans can just as easily say, "I never know when my arms will get chopped off my militiamen, so I'm just going to enjoy my limbs while I still have them."

In the west, people say, "Haha, we're so much superior to those Africans, with their silly superstitions that fly in the face of all available evidence" but then they will turn around and say, "A woman needs a career in order to feel fulfilled" and "There are more than two genders." If you try to argue with them, they say, "Wow, you are such an angry pro-rape transphobic misogynistic bigot!"

In the west, people say, "Haha, those Africans pray to spirits and go to witch doctors. How barbaric!" Then they turn around and say, "My horoscope said I was gonna find love this month. Ah, fingers crossed!"

In Africa, people believe that if a woman gets obstetric fistula, it must be because of her wickedness. In the U.S., people believe that if you get divorced, it must be because you were a bad husband. No matter where you live, there's no escaping being some kind of scapegoat for whatever goes wrong, so that others don't have to face the reality that their society is flawed and that a lot of the grave misfortunes that are suffered are entirely preventable.

Yeah, Chokumbo might mob up and kill some people, but Americans do the same through the ballot box, so there's not that much of a difference. Your neighbors will vote for feminist politicians who will pass laws making it easier for your family to be ripped apart.

Looking at this video, it's easy to say, "Wow, he makes so little progress in his life, earning only a few dollars a day." Then I look at my own life and think, "Huh, after paying for expenses, not only am I not saving up money, I'm actually going further into debt, so really this African dude is doing better than I am in a lot of ways." I chose to add guacamole to my order a few too many times and then couldn't afford to buy a home.

But another way of looking at it is that if I want to judge myself based purely on productivity as measured in dollars earned, in just a few years of working, I already exceeded his output. So as long as I judge myself by third world standards, I'm doing all right.

Post: #35

(05-18-2017 09:27 PM)Pete Wrote:  

(05-18-2017 08:34 PM)BrewDog Wrote:  Colombians grow cows, cocoa, and coffee. Yet you can't get a ribeye, decent chocolates, or good coffee there. Well, you can still go to Starbucks, but what sort of jackass would go to Starbucks?

You can get a decent ribeye. Check out San Carbon @ Las Palmas.

I bet they do them really well done at San Carbon.

Enjoying this thread with some dark chocolate and Aberlour single malt, cheers everyone, and cheers to those grounded Ivorian farmers.

Post: #36

Emotional scars from divorced parents are comparable with having both your arms hacked off at age 10?

The undemocratic military imperialism of the elite is comparable with going the next town over and caving in skulls with your own two hands?

This is the kind of wildly bizarre comparisons we typically hear that are usually preceded with "all cultures are equal because..."

Post: #37

They are happy because it is all they know. At best they have vague notions of what life is like in more "developed" parts of the world, so they cannot be jealous of anything else. The women are the same way, and never have any reason to be unsatisfied with the men they have. That's why people say poverty breeds virtue.

As far as their future is concerned, I'd say most of the world's poor will need welfare to survive (which they won't get). All of the world's "developed" population is shrinking, both East and West. The means less demand, which means less workers getting paid a wage. I therefore expect the "developing" world to therefore shrink in response.

Post: #38

(05-18-2017 10:00 PM)911 Wrote:  

(05-18-2017 09:27 PM)Pete Wrote:  

(05-18-2017 08:34 PM)BrewDog Wrote:  Colombians grow cows, cocoa, and coffee. Yet you can't get a ribeye, decent chocolates, or good coffee there. Well, you can still go to Starbucks, but what sort of jackass would go to Starbucks?

You can get a decent ribeye. Check out San Carbon @ Las Palmas.

I bet they do them really well done at San Carbon.

I don't know San Carbon. But I've looked all over Colombia for a decent steak and it's some complete shit. You get "Loma" which means loin. Loin in America means some tender-ass-loin. Loin in Colombia means some tough-ass-horseshit.

And I can guess you're right. If the "chefs" at Carbon are like any other cooks in Colombia, they're destroying anything they touch. If Colombians can't cook rice (and they can't) then I can only imagine how badly they can fuck up a steak.

But I would try the place fo' sho. If I found out where a goddamn good meat place was in Colombia I would certainly hit that shit up pronto.

Post: #39

(05-18-2017 08:34 PM)BrewDog Wrote:  Colombians grow cows, cocoa, and coffee. Yet you can't get a ribeye, decent chocolates, or good coffee there. Well, you can still go to Starbucks, but what sort of jackass would go to Starbucks?

But we have plenty of good arepas to make up for the lack of good cofee and ribeyes.lolol

Post: #40

(05-18-2017 11:02 PM)lonewolf1992 Wrote:  

(05-18-2017 08:34 PM)BrewDog Wrote:  Colombians grow cows, cocoa, and coffee. Yet you can't get a ribeye, decent chocolates, or good coffee there. Well, you can still go to Starbucks, but what sort of jackass would go to Starbucks?

But we have plenty of good arepas to make up for the lack of good cofee and ribeyes.lolol

You know all those skinny ass street dogs in Colombia? You ever thrown an arepa out to them to see what happens?

Nothing.

A starving ass street dog won't eat those fucking things. A street dog will eat his own turds and vomit. Yet he won't even lick an arepa.

Post: #41

I heard about this video before, but never bothered to watch it - because it's easy to call bullshit on the whole premise without even watching. Cocoa farmers have historically been the most prosperous of all farmers in Africa. There are fucking mansions in Kumasi built on cocoa money. Admittedly the prices are lower now than they once were. Still, I've heard tales of Ghanaian cocoa farmers who just don't know what to do with the shitload of money they get from their harvests and just end up going on an endless taxi ride around the country (there's future orientation for you). And these documentary people are trying to tell you they can't afford to buy a candy bar that costs 2 bucks? Bullshit. Also, you can buy chocolate on every street corner in West Africa, although it's the local kind that doesn't taste great (less sugar) but also doesn't melt in the sun. In general, most Africans don't really like to eat sweets.

Historically the problem for cocoa farmers has not been evil Western companies and consumers, but governments trying to milk the industry for their own purposes by introducing monopolies, price controls, and export duties. In Ghana, for example, this drove most producers to either quitting og smuggling, which in turn made the IC the world leader.

Go to Africa with nothing but a bleeding heart and people will tell you whatever bullshit you want to hear. Little doubt this is what happened here - but apologies again for extended criticism without actually bothering to watch the fucking thing. Maybe it's all true and I'll kill with my Candy Bar Game when I go down next month.

Post: #42

(05-18-2017 11:21 PM)BrewDog Wrote:  

(05-18-2017 11:02 PM)lonewolf1992 Wrote:  

(05-18-2017 08:34 PM)BrewDog Wrote:  Colombians grow cows, cocoa, and coffee. Yet you can't get a ribeye, decent chocolates, or good coffee there. Well, you can still go to Starbucks, but what sort of jackass would go to Starbucks?

But we have plenty of good arepas to make up for the lack of good cofee and ribeyes.lolol

You know all those skinny ass street dogs in Colombia? You ever thrown an arepa out to them to see what happens?

Nothing.

A starving ass street dog won't eat those fucking things. A street dog will eat his own turds and vomit. Yet he won't even lick an arepa.

Those city arepas are just grits.

Ever try the arepas andinas they make up the mountains? Now those are some good eatin'.

Post: #43

(05-19-2017 12:05 AM)Super_Fire Wrote:  Those city arepas are just grits.

Ever try the arepas andinas they make up the mountains? Now those are some good eatin'.

That's funny. My expat bro and I would go on and on about how arepas were flavorless bullshit. Then we made shrimp and grits in Medellin one night at a pub. One of his friends shipped him some grits UPS.

It was very delicious. We were having a huge time and the Colombians loved it too. But then the pub owner, a Scot, tried it and he said, "I don't like it. It tastes like friggin arepas!"

My buddy and I had an epiphany together and were like, "Holy shit! Arepas are just hard grits!"

I haven't eaten a grit since. I'm not making this up.

Post: #44

(05-19-2017 12:10 AM)BrewDog Wrote:  

(05-19-2017 12:05 AM)Super_Fire Wrote:  Those city arepas are just grits.

Ever try the arepas andinas they make up the mountains? Now those are some good eatin'.

That's funny. My expat bro and I would go on and on about how arepas were flavorless bullshit. Then we made shrimp and grits in Medellin one night at a pub. One of his friends shipped him some grits UPS.

It was very delicious. We were having a huge time and the Colombians loved it too. But then the pub owner, a Scot, tried it and he said, "I don't like it. It tastes like friggin arepas!"

My buddy and I had an epiphany together and were like, "Holy shit! Arepas are just hard grits!"

I haven't eaten a grit since. I'm not making this up.

Now to be fair, I kind of prefer hard grits over soft ones. Something about shoving some ham and cheese in there. I've never been to Colombia but I used to live in Venezuela, but I imagine the arepas are about the same.

Now, those arepas andinas...I don't know if Colombia has them, but when I went to Merida, man...

Post: #45

Those are the yellow arepas. They're palatable. They remind me of pancakes a bit. The yellow ones are fine.

The white ones are just useless.

Post: #46

(05-19-2017 12:03 AM)Akwesi Wrote:  I heard about this video before, but never bothered to watch it - because it's easy to call bullshit on the whole premise without even watching. Cocoa farmers have historically been the most prosperous of all farmers in Africa. There are fucking mansions in Kumasi built on cocoa money. Admittedly the prices are lower now than they once were. Still, I've heard tales of Ghanaian cocoa farmers who just don't know what to do with the shitload of money they get from their harvests and just end up going on an endless taxi ride around the country (there's future orientation for you). And these documentary people are trying to tell you they can't afford to buy a candy bar that costs 2 bucks? Bullshit. Also, you can buy chocolate on every street corner in West Africa, although it's the local kind that doesn't taste great (less sugar) but also doesn't melt in the sun. In general, most Africans don't really like to eat sweets.

Historically the problem for cocoa farmers has not been evil Western companies and consumers, but governments trying to milk the industry for their own purposes by introducing monopolies, price controls, and export duties. In Ghana, for example, this drove most producers to either quitting og smuggling, which in turn made the IC the world leader.

Go to Africa with nothing but a bleeding heart and people will tell you whatever bullshit you want to hear. Little doubt this is what happened here - but apologies again for extended criticism without actually bothering to watch the fucking thing. Maybe it's all true and I'll kill with my Candy Bar Game when I go down next month.

Yeah - too much romanticism being put out there. This notion that a simple life equals happy life is utterly outdated. The simple life is wrought in terrible hardships of women dying in childbirth and small children being taken away at age 3 due to a simple infection/small accident. Sure you compensate by having more kids and counting on some dying, also you smile and are relatively happy because the comparative GINI coefficient is real - when everyone around you is equally poor, then you don't feel bad about it.

But let us not romanticize things. There is a reason why other tribes have advanced way beyond that level of technology - because it makes for a better life. Sure - it is more complicated, it is has different challanges. But the main difference is - I can pick the simple life whenever I want to, I could join a monastery and have an even calmer life (Zen Buddhist or Christian Orthodox). He has not much of a choice beyond his current lot. It would be hard for him to do well aside from being in the position he is in right now.

Either way - Akwesi is right, let us not infantilize a tribe too much. In 1910 children worked in factories in the West and many were illiterate/ living in dirty housing projects. By the 1950s they had TV sets at home and could travel across the world. Change can come quickly at times and it is the same people who are doing it.

Post: #47

(05-19-2017 12:03 AM)Akwesi Wrote:  I heard about this video before, but never bothered to watch it - because it's easy to call bullshit on the whole premise without even watching. Cocoa farmers have historically been the most prosperous of all farmers in Africa. There are fucking mansions in Kumasi built on cocoa money. Admittedly the prices are lower now than they once were. Still, I've heard tales of Ghanaian cocoa farmers who just don't know what to do with the shitload of money they get from their harvests and just end up going on an endless taxi ride around the country (there's future orientation for you). And these documentary people are trying to tell you they can't afford to buy a candy bar that costs 2 bucks? Bullshit. Also, you can buy chocolate on every street corner in West Africa, although it's the local kind that doesn't taste great (less sugar) but also doesn't melt in the sun. In general, most Africans don't really like to eat sweets.

Historically the problem for cocoa farmers has not been evil Western companies and consumers, but governments trying to milk the industry for their own purposes by introducing monopolies, price controls, and export duties. In Ghana, for example, this drove most producers to either quitting og smuggling, which in turn made the IC the world leader.

Go to Africa with nothing but a bleeding heart and people will tell you whatever bullshit you want to hear. Little doubt this is what happened here - but apologies again for extended criticism without actually bothering to watch the fucking thing. Maybe it's all true and I'll kill with my Candy Bar Game when I go down next month.

Candy Bar Game.... and you thought you've heard of everything in this forum. Get a huge pack of mini snickers. Attach your number to them. Throw them out while driving past a target / handover while walking by. Profit?

Post: #48

(05-19-2017 07:33 AM)Putin Closes Wrote:  

(05-19-2017 12:03 AM)Akwesi Wrote:  I heard about this video before, but never bothered to watch it - because it's easy to call bullshit on the whole premise without even watching. Cocoa farmers have historically been the most prosperous of all farmers in Africa. There are fucking mansions in Kumasi built on cocoa money. Admittedly the prices are lower now than they once were. Still, I've heard tales of Ghanaian cocoa farmers who just don't know what to do with the shitload of money they get from their harvests and just end up going on an endless taxi ride around the country (there's future orientation for you). And these documentary people are trying to tell you they can't afford to buy a candy bar that costs 2 bucks? Bullshit. Also, you can buy chocolate on every street corner in West Africa, although it's the local kind that doesn't taste great (less sugar) but also doesn't melt in the sun. In general, most Africans don't really like to eat sweets.

Historically the problem for cocoa farmers has not been evil Western companies and consumers, but governments trying to milk the industry for their own purposes by introducing monopolies, price controls, and export duties. In Ghana, for example, this drove most producers to either quitting og smuggling, which in turn made the IC the world leader.

Go to Africa with nothing but a bleeding heart and people will tell you whatever bullshit you want to hear. Little doubt this is what happened here - but apologies again for extended criticism without actually bothering to watch the fucking thing. Maybe it's all true and I'll kill with my Candy Bar Game when I go down next month.

Candy Bar Game.... and you thought you've heard of everything in this forum. Get a huge pack of mini snickers. Attach your number to them. Throw them out while driving past a target / handover while walking by. Profit?

If they have cannot afford candy bars, what makes you think that they can afford mobile phones?

Post: #49

(05-18-2017 11:21 PM)BrewDog Wrote:  

(05-18-2017 11:02 PM)lonewolf1992 Wrote:  

(05-18-2017 08:34 PM)BrewDog Wrote:  Colombians grow cows, cocoa, and coffee. Yet you can't get a ribeye, decent chocolates, or good coffee there. Well, you can still go to Starbucks, but what sort of jackass would go to Starbucks?

But we have plenty of good arepas to make up for the lack of good cofee and ribeyes.lolol

You know all those skinny ass street dogs in Colombia? You ever thrown an arepa out to them to see what happens?

Nothing.

A starving ass street dog won't eat those fucking things. A street dog will eat his own turds and vomit. Yet he won't even lick an arepa.

Lol, Neither cockroaches, nor ants will even touch them. I hate the arepas as much as the western folks who come down here. Except for the nice Arepas paisas for breakfast.

Post: #50

On one hand, it must suck to be a dirt-poor farmer living in the third world.

On the other hand, it must be nice to have a wife that doesn't want tickets to see the The Vagina Monologues.