Post: #1

I spent nine months in Morocco and am now at a high intermediate level - and this was when I was mostly speaking English with other students and in my courses. I am stunned at how good I got so quickly, and I know that if I intensely focus on it for about two years, I could be near fluent before I know it.

The main problem is obvious - there is a massive cultural divide between the Islamic world and the West. Even when I was abroad and had plenty of downtime after homework, I was hesitant to make friends outside of the program, preferring to keep my distance from devout Muslims (I don't think you can just casually attend a mosque service and expect to not be asked back). I made a few friends - one an atheist who still lived at home with his Muslim relatives, and one a relaxed, indifferentist Muslim who regularly posts lefty crap all over his Facebook. However, due to being nervous about the whole thing (not to mention being an alt-right Trump fanboy), I didn't regularly hang out with locals and therefore didn't become fluent. As this was North Africa and not the Levant, it was impossible to make local friends in a non-Muslim context...the few Christian churches in the area were full of French-speaking Africans or other students that spoke English. I didn't meet one Moroccan Christian.

I am now back in America, and in a city with a limited Arab population - Milwaukee. There are a mix of Moroccans, Jordanians, and Palestinians here. I already tried looking around at the Christian churches - the one Byzantine Catholic church in the area is full of people who are DESCENDED from Levantine Arabs, so virtually none of them speak any Arabic. There is a Coptic Orthodox church in a distant suburb. I'd consider attending services there if Egyptian wasn't such a notoriously dense dialect.

What exactly do I do? I am going to be in the United States until at *least* late 2018 or 2019, and I want to maintain and build on what I've learned. I feel that if I don't practice with actual people, this language is going to slip away from me and I'll have wasted nine months, but I'm at a loss as to how to find partners - outside of attending one of the local mosques or hanging out with the Muslim Student Alliance on campus. Should I get a part-time gig at one of the Arab-owned nightclubs?

This all said, I am new to learning languages, despite having a natural talent for it. Maybe there's a way to practice without other people that I am unfamiliar with.

Post: #2

(05-13-2017 12:40 AM)stugatz Wrote:  I spent nine months in Morocco and am now at a high intermediate level - and this was when I was mostly speaking English with other students and in my courses. I am stunned at how good I got so quickly, and I know that if I intensely focus on it for about two years, I could be near fluent before I know it.

The main problem is obvious - there is a massive cultural divide between the Islamic world and the West. Even when I was abroad and had plenty of downtime after homework, I was hesitant to make friends outside of the program, preferring to keep my distance from devout Muslims (you can't just casually attend a mosque service and expect to not be asked back). I made a few friends - one an atheist who still lived at home with his Muslim relatives, and one a relaxed, indifferentist Muslim who regularly posts lefty crap all over his Facebook. However, due to being nervous about the whole thing (not to mention being an alt-right Trump fanboy), I didn't regularly hang out with locals and therefore didn't become fluent. It was impossible to make local friends in a non-Muslim context...the few Christian churches in the area were full of French-speaking Africans or other students that spoke English.

I am now back in America, and in a city with a limited Arab population - Milwaukee. There are a mix of Moroccans, Jordanians, and Palestinians here. I already tried looking around at the Christian churches - the one Byzantine Catholic church in the area is full of people who are DESCENDED from Levantine Arabs, so virtually none of them speak any Arabic. There is a Coptic Orthodox church in a distant suburb.

What exactly do I do? I am going to be in the United States until at *least* late 2018 or 2019, and I want to maintain what I've learned. I feel that if I don't practice with actual people, this language is going to slip away from me and I'll have wasted nine months, but I'm at a loss as to how to find partners - outside of attending one of the local mosques or hanging out with the Muslim Student Alliance on campus. Should I get a part-time gig at one of the Arab-owned nightclubs?

This all said, I am new to learning languages, despite having a natural talent for it. Maybe there's a way to practice without other people that I am unfamiliar with.

To be honest, I don't think retaining your Arabic will be particularly difficult. If there are any universities in the area, you should be able to find a conversation partner of some kind. I would also recommend watching some Arabic serials on YouTube. If all of this fails, just try to think to yourself in Arabic as much as you can. I find that the basic fusHa grammar and vocabulary hasn't really escaped me, despite the fact that I haven't practiced the language in months. Darija is a little trickier, since I didn't have as much exposure to it ( one full year of fusHa versus a couple months of Darija).

When it comes to actually developing your Arabic ability, there's really nothing to do but study abroad again and then get a job where you use it. You're an older guy, so a lot of the college scholarships (Boren, CLS) would be inaccessible to you unless you go back to grad school. I would recommend applying for the Peace Corps if you're serious about learning Arabic abroad. The only Arabic option is Morocco. You could get put up somewhere in the Atlas Mountains for a couple years. By the end of it, your Darija would be near fluent, and you might pick up some Berber as well.

Another option is King Abd al-Aziz University in Saudi Arabia. Apparently the program is completely free, you get free Arabic education and housing. You would also be living in Jeddah, which is supposedly the most liberal city in Saudi. Still, though, it's fucking Saudi. You would come out with excellent Arabic, but I'm not sure how long you would want to spend there...

Other options are paid language institutes in Jordan, Egypt, or Lebanon. The Egyptian one would be a good option if you have a high tolerance for third world environments. Saifi Institute in Lebanon seems pretty good too and is incredibly cheap, I think tuition for six weeks costs like 500 dollars. If you're really willing to blow some money, Qasid Institute in Amman will give you a great FusHa education. It's expensive as fuck however and Jordan is a very boring country. Lebanon is vastly more interesting despite being one-eighth the size. I don't know if you've ever been to California, but I'd compare Lebanon to the Bay Area, and Jordan to the Central Valley.

I'm not sure if you're Jewish either...if you are, there may be some options for you in Israel. Definitely worth checking out.

Retaining the language won't be that tough...but it will be impossible to really build your skill without studying abroad in the near future. Classes in the U.S are usually garbage and self-studying Arabic takes impressive discipline. If you do choose to stay in the U.S, you can find language partners on italki.com for 14 an hour. They are usually pretty good, but they have no structured curriculum. Also a lot of these guys are operating out of shithole cities in Morocco or Egypt, where the internet connection is poor. Skyping them can be challenging as a result.

Actually, if you want, we could practice over Skype or the phone...shoot me a PM if you're interested. I actually need a language partner myself. Let me know if that's something you'd want to try.

Post: #3

(05-13-2017 12:55 AM)Agastya Wrote:  To be honest, I don't think retaining your Arabic will be particularly difficult. If there are any universities in the area, you should be able to find a conversation partner of some kind. I would also recommend watching some Arabic serials on YouTube. If all of this fails, just try to think to yourself in Arabic as much as you can. I find that the basic fusHa grammar and vocabulary hasn't really escaped me, despite the fact that I haven't practiced the language in months. Darija is a little trickier, since I didn't have as much exposure to it ( one full year of fusHa versus a couple months of Darija).

I will likely just focus on fusHa for now - if I can understand news broadcasts and read, wonderful! Transitioning to a colloquial dialect can't be too hard after that.

(05-13-2017 12:55 AM)Agastya Wrote:  Another option is King Abd al-Aziz University in Saudi Arabia. Apparently the program is completely free, you get free Arabic education and housing. You would also be living in Jeddah, which is supposedly the most liberal city in Saudi. Still, though, it's fucking Saudi. You would come out with excellent Arabic, but I'm not sure how long you would want to spend there...

I think I'd be comfortable for maybe a year, but I'd want to think long and hard about it first. I don't know how many social mistakes I made in Rabat that were ignored, and (since I'm a semi-serious practicing Catholic again) I would also have to think long and hard about if I wanted to attend an underground church and put myself in danger.

(05-13-2017 12:55 AM)Agastya Wrote:  Other options are paid language institutes in Jordan, Egypt, or Lebanon. The Egyptian one would be a good option if you have a high tolerance for third world environments. Saifi Institute in Lebanon seems pretty good too and is incredibly cheap, I think tuition for six weeks costs like 500 dollars. If you're really willing to blow some money, Qasid Institute in Amman will give you a great FusHa education. It's expensive as fuck however and Jordan is a very boring country. Lebanon is vastly more interesting despite being one-eighth the size. I don't know if you've ever been to California, but I'd compare Lebanon to the Bay Area, and Jordan to the Central Valley.

I am extremely familiar with Lebanon, and especially because I'm a huge fan of the Maronite Catholics and their toughness. Also - one of the main awkward things I had to deal with in Morocco was being consistently mistaken for Lebanese. This has made me think that I could, if I spent some time over there, actually fucking BLEND IN. I enjoyed Morocco immensely, but I didn't like walking around being an obvious foreigner. I always wondered if my friends really liked me or saw me as a novelty.

(05-13-2017 12:55 AM)Agastya Wrote:  I'm not sure if you're Jewish either...if you are, there may be some options for you in Israel. Definitely worth checking out.

No, despite consistently being mistaken for one. (I'm a Sicilian-Slovak-Arab hybrid with some Western European thrown in there.) I would like to spend some time in Israel at some point, but don't you have to know Hebrew to have a comfortable amount of options available to you? If so, maybe Tel Aviv/Jerusalem would come after the Arabic.

PM incoming.

Post: #4

I am confused. You seem very intent on learning the language, despite having no natural environment in which to use it.

Why are you so intent on learning a language you have to inconvenience yourself to even use?

Post: #5

(05-13-2017 12:55 AM)Agastya Wrote:  If you do choose to stay in the U.S, you can find language partners on italki.com for 14 an hour. They are usually pretty good, but they have no structured curriculum.

I second this suggestion. I'm not sure how many 'professional teachers' you'll find for Moroccan Arabic on the site but don't rule out the untrained 'community tutors' or whatever they call them. They may not be able to teach you per se but this should help you maintain your current level. You may need to try several in order to find one or two with whom you have good chemistry. For a good video connection, you need a minimum upload speed of 3Mbps on both ends.

Post: #6

(05-13-2017 06:28 AM)Sonoma Wrote:  I am confused. You seem very intent on learning the language, despite having no natural environment in which to use it.

Why are you so intent on learning a language you have to inconvenience yourself to even use?

Good question, man, I had to think a while before answering.

Well, there will be plenty of natural environment when I am back in the Middle East again - I'm more intent on maintaining what I know for now and maybe building on it a little before going overseas again.

As for why I'm intent on learning *this* language, maybe I've oversold the value of Arabic a bit much to myself on how it will benefit me in finding work. (I always figured, virtually zero Americans speak it...so getting a job in a government agency would be easy. But then, wouldn't they hire new arrivals?)

I also have an emotional connection to this language, since it's really the first one I've gotten close to fluent in. I mean, if I can learn this language with the guttural grunts and the spaghetti-looking alphabet...learning something along the lines of Russian or French will be almost too easy in comparison. I've always wanted to be a polyglot and travel extensively.

Post: #7

I would suggest you start reading a book to improve your vocabulary. I would suggest a translation of one of Joe Nesbo's thrillers.
If you are into Teaching or Hotel Management or IT project management, you would make a lot of money in Qatar or Dubai with your US passport and Arabic skills.