Post: #1

I've been getting heavily into direct game over the past month and it's clear that it suits my personality much more than skulking around the girl indirectly, both in terms of how I feel about myself but also in terms of getting numbers infield. Up until yesterday, I was averaging around 25% of girls responding positively, but ultimately admitting they've got a boyfriend or - as happened today - admitting they are single but that they think I'm too old for me (I don't look old in my face but I do have quite a few grey hairs for my age, it's true). However, today I seemed to step up a gear and had the experience of getting at least half the girls I opened react positively and stick around to hear my story, including two 8s, one of whom I managed to get her contact details. Furthermore, today was my best day in terms of approaches on a workday, given that I managed to open 20 sets. Maybe the weather played a role - it was sunny and warm all day here in Leipzig for the first time in quite a while - but I also noticed as I was approaching that I was much more sure about the way I was going about it, whether it was from getting right in front of the girl and doing a policeman's stop with my hand, to my tone of voice, to holding solid eye contact, as well as my general not giving much of a fuck attitude as to how the interactions might pan out. I was really vibing with quite a few of these women and it was clear from their body language that they were enjoying the interaction, judging from how some of the sets were constantly playing with their hair and coming in very close as the interaction progressed. However, the same problem kept occurring, almost every girl I opened admitted to either having a husband (usually these are the women who are late 20s or early 30s) or they tell me they have a boyfriend.

Anyway, aside from the question of how one should respond to this general problem, which surely affects nearly every guy on here whenever he's running daygame, I had a rather interesting experience along the way which I was very interested in getting an opinion on from RVFers:

After getting a visual IOI on the street from a cute, tall, curvy and nerdy-looking German girl, mid-20s, I run up to her without hesitation and instantly stop her from the front. Although somewhat shocked, she still breaks out into a big smile and she hooks pretty much immediately, asking me about what I'm doing here, et.c. After about 5 minutes of chatting, I go for the number close and she drops the boyfriend bomb. I look her up and down and say to her, "No, please don't tell me this is true" and she starts to get a bit flushed in the face and embarassed as I tell her that I still want to go out on a date with her. It's clear from her tone of voice and body language that she's at least tempted by my offer, since she doesn't sound very convinced when I ask her again. At this point, I take her hand and say to her, OK, no worries, I'll be on my way then, but something weird happens at this point: I just keep holding her hand saying and I eye her up and down and stare into her eyes, "My God, I really don't care you've got a boyfriend, I just want you". She blushes even more and makes some various mock protestations, but I can tell that she's getting hot under the collar as well, sexually-speaking. When I pressed her about how serious the relationship with her BF was, she mentioned that she'd been with him for 6 years, but I know from experience that women who've been in relationships this long are often looking to monkey branch at this juncture. In any case, I've learned to discard what women say during the interaction and focus solely on the body language and judging from the latter it was clear that there was physical attraction and that it was quite strong. It wasn't just clear from this, the sexual vibe was palpable and it was extremely frustrating not being able to act on it.

Incidentally, a very similar thing also happened in one of my other sets today, with the girl telling me that she would have dated me had she not had a BF (she was also showing quite strong IOIs through her body language), so I was inclined to treat her utterance as perhaps not just a polite brush-off. But here's the deal: the thing that was common to both of these sets was that when I persisted after they'd dropped the BF bomb, I could feel a spike in the sexual temperature of the interaction go up significantly. With this second girl, when she dropped the BF bomb on me, I simply told her flat out, "I don't care, I still want to meet up with you" looking her very seductively in the eye and then giving her an up and down glance, in which I really take in her assets. I could tell from how hesitant she was in answering me with another no and from the fact that she didn't seem in any hurry to either move away from me (she had already come in quite close as the interaction progressed) that she was - like the nerdy girl - at least tempted and intrigued.

I hadn't intended to inject any sexual tension strategically into these interactions by responding in the way I did, it simply happened spontaneously as a result of how I was feeling at the time. But on the way home, feeling on the one hand quite pleased with myself but, on the other hand, very frustrated - not least sexually - that I hadn't been able to progress these sets to their natural conclusion, I started to become vexed over how to proceed in the future. Given that it was precisely in those moments when I really made it clear that I wanted these girls sexually, the response from the girls was clearly the most sexually positive - even though they felt they had to say no for the sake of having a BF - I was wondering whether I can use this tactic in the future, but in a more consistent and forthright manner to finally get the lay from my direct approaches. I feel like I'm getting closer and closer to cracking the code in my interactions, in terms of how many women are responding positively to me, but I keep stopping short of the goal by having to march my troops back down the hill again when the BF bomb gets dropped on me. As I sat on the tram tonight going home, I found myself thinking, "Fuck it, next time I'm just going to tell them I want to bang them there and then and see how they respond." Yes, this is pretty crass, I know, but whenever I've really pushed the boundaries to the point where I thought the woman would take offence, I've actually found she's responded even more positively, as paradoxical as that might sound to some on here.

What do you guys think on here about this idea? When I feel that a girl is sexually attracted enough, although her words coming out of her mouth are formally, "I can't, I've got a BF", should I just go for broke and offer to lay her there and then? I really need to end a multi-year dry spell (3 years and 1 month now) and so I really don't care very much what I need to do here, and I can sense that there's definitely a subset of girls that I'm attracted to who are tempted, but for whom I might just need to adopt an even more persistent approach. Or is my thinking way off base here? I'd really appreciate the input of some more experienced guys on here, since all I've got at the moment is the fishbowl of my own head to bounce these thoughts around in, which really isn't helping much.

Post: #2

There's two reasons why a girl will mention a bf/husband:

1) She's actually got a bf/husband and has no intention of straying (not with you, anyway). Personally, I'd respect that and leave her be. It's an ethical boundary I choose not to cross - I doubt you'd like it if some guy kept pursuing your girl even after she had mentioned you to him?

2) She's not into you and is using that as an excuse to get you to leave.

Either of the above is reason enough to walk away, IMHO.

Btw, if you haven't gotten laid in 3 yrs, I'd seriously consider a flight to SA/SEA, lol

Post: #3

This belongs in the Newbie section.... Also I've never fucked a girl who immediately mentioned a boyfriend but I did make out with quite a few.

Post: #4

If boyfriend, get that instagram (easier) or number, say message me if it doesn't work out. I'd probably just walk away if its husband during day game, maybe grab Instagram...

A few notes though if you want to push it that day: "No, please don't tell me this is true" sounds a bit beta to me. I'd probably say something like "that's unfortunate."

At that point personally I would not speak of the boyfriend and trying to convince her out of it. I'd focus more on getting her somewhere for a drink without expectations. Every time you bring up the BF it triggers guilt in her head, where as if you can get her focused on you and having a coffee or a beer, she doesn't have to get as guilty.

Also, it's possible many of these girls who say they have a boyfriend are lying to prevent further conversation due to a lack of body language, eye contact, bad opener, etc.

But holy shit, 3 years dry :/ "My God, I really don't care you've got a boyfriend, I just want you," is an aggressive move and you gotta say that with the confidence of someone who get's it in weekly. Also, download some apps. And hit a party town or SEA and end that streak. 3 days and I start getting antsy haha.

Post: #5

Lots of threads about "IHAB". Should have gone looking for one of those, and as Darkwing said, this should be in the newbie section.

Short Answer: treat it like any other shit test and see what happens. If she does have a boyfriend and has no intention of sleeping with you or you haven't made a good enough impression, it will still go nowhere. If she doesn't, or doesn't give a shit and is using it as resistance while still being into you, then you can keep moving towards the payoff like any other approach.

I'd say as a general rule if it's one of the very first things they say, that it won't be worth your time to keep at it even if it is possible, but if it comes up as a sort of middle or last minute resistance, then you still could have a chance.

Post: #6

If she says she has a boyfriend it means she not interested. Whether it's true or not is irrelevant. Move on to the next one.

Post: #7

^^^ Agreed -- I used to hammer away at trying to counter this kind of shit, but I have yet to find the point to it. And on top of that, it seems to thwart the abundance mentality we should always be adhering to.

Post: #8

If a chick is interested, she won't be giving you resistance and roadblocks for mere contact info. Just tell her to have a good day and be on your way.

Post: #9

I'd say you're coming across as quite intimidating - don't ramp it up even further. Easier said than done, but you need to go into interactions with an attitude of utter indifference, and don't labour the point.

Post: #10

It's womanese for NEXT!

Post: #11

(05-03-2017 03:58 PM)Feldeinsamkeit Wrote:  What do you guys think on here about this idea? When I feel that a girl is sexually attracted enough, although her words coming out of her mouth are formally, "I can't, I've got a BF", should I just go for broke and offer to lay her there and then? I really need to end a multi-year dry spell (3 years and 1 month now) and so I really don't care very much what I need to do here, and I can sense that there's definitely a subset of girls that I'm attracted to who are tempted, but for whom I might just need to adopt an even more persistent approach. Or is my thinking way off base here? I'd really appreciate the input of some more experienced guys on here, since all I've got at the moment is the fishbowl of my own head to bounce these thoughts around in, which really isn't helping much.

With all due respect to all the pros who have weighed in on this, and who know much better than I, I have a couple contrary observations.

1) Excellent Work! You are making terrific progress and pushing yourself to not just cold approach, but also try more challenging stuff (direct). In a dry spell. This is excellent work and the response you are eliciting seems to be improving. Stay with it. You are absolutely going to kill it.

2) Direct Rules Direct approach is working for you; stay with it.

3) Escalate, Escalate, Escalate As you have taken a more assertive and sexually forward approach, your results have improved. I take this as a strong positive sign. It also feels to me like you can push it further. My experience, 100% of the time, is that I underestimate how far and hard I can push escalation. Push right to the edge of creep; just stay out of needy.

4) Desire Trumps Abundance Abundance is great, but DESIRE is underrated and one of the most potent aphrodisiacs for women. At 3 years dry, desire is a strength for you. It sounds like you are successfully projecting your super strong desire to good effect. I say own that shit. Your desire is a gift to women. Try telling one of those bitches you've been in prison for three years and see what happens.

5) Always Go For Broke "should I just go for broke and offer to lay her there and then?" - YES, but NOT VERBALLY. Like any other seduction, you need to LEAD the woman to her inner slut, while giving her the gift of plausible deniability every step of the way. Use your eyes, as you have been, and escalate physically.

6) Rapid Escalation is for You You may want to check out some of the Rapid Seduction pros if you have not already. I have been reading up on this a bit lately and find that it reinforces my observation that men (myself definitely included) routinely UNDERESTIMATE how far we can push a seduction. It also seems like the logical next step in your direct game development.

Post: #12

Other fish in the sea. Next her.

Post: #13

I've had plenty of girls say they have a BF still give me the number. And they drop only as friends. I've gotten into text with them and you could play the long game with these girls for when the BF slips & meet them out to game them.

The cost opportunity isn't worth it when you can go after girls that either don't mention their boyfriend & play ball or are actually free.

Post: #14

(05-03-2017 04:16 PM)jselysianeagle Wrote:  There's two reasons why a girl will mention a bf/husband:

1) She's actually got a bf/husband and has no intention of straying (not with you, anyway). Personally, I'd respect that and leave her be. It's an ethical boundary I choose not to cross - I doubt you'd like it if some guy kept pursuing your girl even after she had mentioned you to him?

2) She's not into you and is using that as an excuse to get you to leave.

Either of the above is reason enough to walk away, IMHO.

Btw, if you haven't gotten laid in 3 yrs, I'd seriously consider a flight to SA/SEA, lol

I'd say 90%+ of the time, a girl who says that is because it is a hard next of you. It might be true, it might be false, but either way the interaction is likely to go nowhere from there.

A very small percentage of the time when it is true she says it because she is into you and is reminding HERSELF, as opposed to you, that she shouldn't partake in the interaction. You may have an in there, assuming you don't mind that she's got a boyfriend or is married.

A fun thing to say that I've used when confronted with this (I stole it) is "Are you happy?"

Say it somewhat mockingly and jovially so you have plausible deniability. Watch and listen to her reaction.

The interaction is probably still at and end, but I did have that work once.

Post: #15

(05-04-2017 08:58 AM)Jack_Smith Wrote:  

(05-03-2017 03:58 PM)Feldeinsamkeit Wrote:  What do you guys think on here about this idea? When I feel that a girl is sexually attracted enough, although her words coming out of her mouth are formally, "I can't, I've got a BF", should I just go for broke and offer to lay her there and then? I really need to end a multi-year dry spell (3 years and 1 month now) and so I really don't care very much what I need to do here, and I can sense that there's definitely a subset of girls that I'm attracted to who are tempted, but for whom I might just need to adopt an even more persistent approach. Or is my thinking way off base here? I'd really appreciate the input of some more experienced guys on here, since all I've got at the moment is the fishbowl of my own head to bounce these thoughts around in, which really isn't helping much.

With all due respect to all the pros who have weighed in on this, and who know much better than I, I have a couple contrary observations.

1) Excellent Work! You are making terrific progress and pushing yourself to not just cold approach, but also try more challenging stuff (direct). In a dry spell. This is excellent work and the response you are eliciting seems to be improving. Stay with it. You are absolutely going to kill it.

2) Direct Rules Direct approach is working for you; stay with it.

3) Escalate, Escalate, Escalate As you have taken a more assertive and sexually forward approach, your results have improved. I take this as a strong positive sign. It also feels to me like you can push it further. My experience, 100% of the time, is that I underestimate how far and hard I can push escalation. Push right to the edge of creep; just stay out of needy.

4) Desire Trumps Abundance Abundance is great, but DESIRE is underrated and one of the most potent aphrodisiacs for women. At 3 years dry, desire is a strength for you. It sounds like you are successfully projecting your super strong desire to good effect. I say own that shit. Your desire is a gift to women. Try telling one of those bitches you've been in prison for three years and see what happens.

5) Always Go For Broke "should I just go for broke and offer to lay her there and then?" - YES, but NOT VERBALLY. Like any other seduction, you need to LEAD the woman to her inner slut, while giving her the gift of plausible deniability every step of the way. Use your eyes, as you have been, and escalate physically.

6) Rapid Escalation is for You You may want to check out some of the Rapid Seduction pros if you have not already. I have been reading up on this a bit lately and find that it reinforces my observation that men (myself definitely included) routinely UNDERESTIMATE how far we can push a seduction. It also seems like the logical next step in your direct game development.

First of all, thanks to everybody that's chipped in on here in response to my OP, it's much appreciated.

@Jack_Smith: I think you've dispensed some really useful advice there, because it chimes in so well with my actual experiences at the coalface of my interactions with women in public. One simple example which backs this up is as follows: When I started going direct on the street, I used to open women by ambling up beside them and saying in a relatively low, almost apologetic tone of voice, "Excuse me, could I just ...". The result was that nearly even girl wouldn't even stop, let alone grace me with a Teutonic brush-off. However, yesterday, when I was running up to women, swinging around in a cartwheel and putting my hand flat out to their chest to bring them to a quick halt, it was working an absolute treat, judging by the expressions on their faces and the fact that they stuck around to banter with me. Before I got the idea to do this, I believed that women would have been terrified of this tactic and yet I found the very opposite to be the case; it was almost as if the respect that you gain from doing this as a man outweighs any hesitation they would otherwise have to interact with you. Again, this isn't me pontificating about theory from behind the keyboard, it's consistent infield experience that I can point to from having opened almost 200 sets directly in the last 5 weeks.

It's the same story with the reactions of some of the women that I've opened. Although they've protested that they've got a boyfriend, they've started to crumble and completely lose frame, mumbling things like, "I can't do this, no, I can't ..." but I can see in their body language that they're bloody tempted and are hugely conflicted in that moment. I've had about 4 girls do this up to now and it's a clear pattern that I'm starting to see, but it took a while for the reality of what was happening to sink in. The first time it happened I was on my 11th day of a no-fap streak, very randy and approached a young, tall and very cute blond, a clear 8, in a hardware store and at first she gave me the ice queen brush-off, but I simply backed off, said no worries to her and kept on looking at the stationery, fully expecting that she'd move away and that would be the end of that interaction. Instead, she starts looking back over at me (she was about 2 meters away at that point) and comes back up to me, saying, "I can't do this, but ... [inaudible words] " and doesn't even seem sure about what she's saying, even though her English was excellent. I then just go back into game mode and she falls totally into my frame. After several minutes of vibeing with her, I try to instadate her and she tells me that she's moving to Switzerland in the next few days and that she needs to pack her gear the same night, in addition to the fact that she's also seeing some guy, but the way that she's getting hot and bothered, i.e. she's visibly flushed the more I flirt with her, her words are becoming less coherent the longer we're talking, et.c., suggest that she's thinking about my offer. Incidentally, if I'd had this experience with only one young woman, I could have just written it off as a fluke, but I've had it happen at least a couple of times since, so it seems that there was at least the potential to make something out of this situation if I'd only have had a better idea in real time of what was happening and so could have responded appropriately.

As for those guys on here who argue that you should just walk away when a woman plays the BF card. Well, in many cases, you're surely right, since the woman will be genuinely committed to the guy and I wouldn't want to interfere with that. But there's a subset of women who are half-in, half-out of relationships with some guy and for whom I think they are at least open to my approach and it would seem completely unreasonable for me to rule them out, especially since nearly every girl that is attractive has some guy in their lives. If I was to wait for a girl to come along who didn't mention the BF, I'd wait forever. And therein lies the rub with the suggestion that I should simply bail as soon as the BF is brought up: I simply don't have the luxury of doing that, especially as I'm trying to break an epic dry spell.

Anyway, thanks very much, Jack_Smith, for the link to the video on rapid escalation. This is EXACTLY the medicine that I've been looking for and really look forward to digesting it when I get the time to watch it in full.

I'll keep everybody posted on how I get along in the days ahead.

Over and out.

Post: #16

If she *tells* you she has a boyfriend, she wants you to go away. Either its true, or its not true but she is shutting this chat down.

If she did have a boyfriend and was interested in you, she won't tell you that. She will date, bang, chat etc and see how it goes for the vibe WAY before she drops the boyfriend tell on you.

Thats my experience, anyway.

Post: #17

I know I can't be the only one who remembers what Mystery used to say about this sort of thing. Sometimes a girl will tell you she has a boyfriend not because she isn't interested, but because she wants you to be aware of what her situation is. She may not be available for dating or a relationship, but if you continue gaming her, pushing through her resistance/overcoming her objections, (in her mind) she isn't to blame if you hookup. After all, you're the one who seduced her, not the other way around.

Sometimes girls will use lines like "I can't, I've got a boyfriend" and really mean it. But she might just be telling you (in her own indirect female way) that the possibility of sex is still on the table if your game is tight enough.

Post: #18

"That's great that you have a boy friend. I feel safer because I know you won't try anything. We can hang out as friends."

Post: #19

Yea, a lot of guys here are forgetting that "I have a BF" is usually a fundamental shit test. Even if she has a BF, it's a shit test. If you're very attracted to the girl, keep going and treat it as if she said "the weather is nice today". A few off the cuff responses you can use:

"Cool, I have a goldfish."
"Did I ask for your life story?" (say it with a smirk so it doesn't come off as mean)
"I'm married" (say it deadpan and then just keep on talking)
"Cool, do you love him?" (bold! especially within the first few seconds of a convo)

My advice is don't take BF remarks too seriously. Weigh body language and other IOIs more heavily.

Post: #20

The reality is most anywhere near attractive girls have a boyfriend, husband, or some other guy(s) in her life. So it really depends. She could be lying, she could be telling the truth, she could be telling half truth (e.g. she has a few orbiters or FBs), you never know.

You can be moral about it and say you're not going to bother with any girls who have any type of man in their life. But then you are removing 90% of the female population. You can believe the BF thing and say it's not worth it and again remove 90% of the female population.

Sometimes girls say it as a way to end the conversation. Sometimes girls just say it to not look bad. I'm not that big on the shit test theory. Not everything a girl says or does is a test. Sometimes a relationship is genuinely serious and she will not leave it for a random guy she met in a grocery store. You never know.

Just go for the number and the meet like any other number. Don't treat it with excessive time and effort, she has to be responsive at least. When you get a lot of numbers, keep pinging them quickly, because you never know which ones may come through. Daygame is hard man, more than skill it is just emotional endurance, you pound the pavement and hustle your ass off for a bunch of numbers, then you have to get dates, then you have to close. You will get a huge flake rate which takes a steaming piss all over your hard work you did to get those numbers. But within those numbers should be a prospect that will come through. That's why you're giving too much weight to single interactions. Attempt to get contact details for meet, move on. Who knows her life story and who the hell cares. All you care about is the bang. To get that it takes a lot of numbers.

Other than that, If you're in a 3+ year drought, I would second DigitalNomad's advice and go to SEA for a month or something. Desire is good especially to persevere in daygame, but 3 years? Man that is not right.

Post: #21

"Cool, I have a goldfish." Winner response.

Truth is you cannot know. A girl can say that for many different reasons. So you can either carry on or bail. Your choice.

Better way to see what is up is to talk hypothethically about what you can both do together next time you see each other and watch how she reacts to that. She might want it despite having a BF. That tells more than words.

Post: #22

Some very interesting posts here, but one thing still bothers me.

Doing daygame, my average of girls with boyfriends is quite high. These girls will meet me (for a drink no less), and then drop the boyfriend line. I get the impression they're prospecting.

Now I'm going indirect, but the circumstances make it obvious what's going down – at least I like to think so. In case of doubt, I make the situation clear during the date.

Thing is – how much time does one spend pseudo-dating these girls? Is it really worth the effort?

In a way it's heartening to hear that these girls can be converted. I do think it's possible. But I find myself wondering: is it worth the effort? Is my return on investment not better on a fresh girl?

Reading over my own post, I think I know what the answer is.

What do you guys think about the typical black guy routine – just ask 'em outright if "they have a boyfriend". I thought it was crude before, but maybe there's actually some wisdom to it.

Post: #23

Sometimes you have to steal lines from rvf.

"Boyfriends come and go. I will not come again."

Remember I stole it first.

It might get a few laughs and then you're on your own.

Most will not admit this.

Post: #24

I am not sure why you would want to keep pushing when you are dealing with a stranger on street.

You did a great thing by talking to women on street which is hard for any guys. You feel like you overcame the first step but you are stuck with this I have a bf roadblock.

So you want the solution to demolish that roadblock. There is no such thing.

In sales, the most common excuse is Let me think about it or Let me talk to my wife. I told sales person Let me think about it and he came back with 'What exactly do you want to think about'

It was a great comeback question but sounded rude too. I was speechless for a bit. But I didn't care whether he said something clever. I wasn't just convinced with the product enough and wanted to go home.

So instead of focusing on BF answer, focus on your whole presentation. (looks, talking, eye contacts etc) then there will be less roadblocks.

If you hear BF answer, something already went wrong before reaching that Roadblock. Does it make sense?

Post: #25

Whether it's true or not is irrelevant - she's turning you down. Next.

If she really had a boyfriend but was interested in you, she wouldn't even mention it at all. Just like when I game girls - I don't tell them that I'm married.

So she's shooting you down. Eject.