Post: #1

Been busy as of late, but stumbled across this and thought it was interesting to share a little information about what's going on in the Land of the Rising Sun. As follows:

Quote:Japan's "divorce by agreement" -- which does not exactly reflect the reality of the system -- is a rare specimen worldwide. And many foreign spouses have learned that the hard way.

"One piece of paper changed my whole life," laments a 30-something non-Japanese woman living in western Japan.

The woman married a Japanese man in 2005, and gave birth to two children. Her husband gradually stopped working and began verbally abusing her. The woman sought divorce mediation in 2010, but her husband did not appear on the date of the arbitration. Instead, she was informed by the mediator that the divorce had already been finalized. She scrambled to obtain a copy of the family register, and discovered that her husband had submitted divorce papers in which he designated himself as having sole parental custody over their children.

When the woman returned home, an argument escalated into the woman's now ex-husband using brute physical force against her, and the police were called. The woman was taken to a shelter, but her claim that her ex-husband had gone through with the divorce without her consent went unaddressed by the authorities. Her children were placed under the protection of a child guidance center, after which they were handed over to their father.

The woman filed for arbitration to have her divorce annulled, but because her ex-husband told her he would let her see her children if she retracted her motion for arbitration, she did. However, she has not been able to see her children for a month now.

Of all divorces in Japan, some 90 percent are "divorce by agreement," in which a divorce is finalized simply by submitting a divorce notice filled out by both spouses to the local city hall. The catch here is that the authorities make no attempts to ensure that the signatures do, in fact, belong to the people that they appear to be representing.

This means that a spouse can forge a signature and fill out the form with information, including who will take custody of the couple's children, unbeknownst to their spouse. Since the system is not seen anywhere else in the world, many foreign nationals do not know that they can be divorced without their agreement and left without their children or the visa status they had held. Thus, organizations and experts that have received complaint after complaint that their Japanese spouses divorced them without their consent have produced a leaflet in multiple languages offering information about the Japanese divorce system and warning foreign nationals to be wary about signing paperwork they can't read or aren't sure about.

The leaflet was created by Rikon Alert, a group comprising attorneys, university professors, and seven organizations in the Kansai region including the Association for Toyonaka Multicultural Symbiosis (ATOMS). For the past two years, the group has been studying actual cases of "divorce by agreement" that were actually without agreement, and deliberating preventative measures.

The overwhelming majority of foreign nationals who have consulted experts or support organizations have been women. They include cases in which women's signatures were forged by their husbands on divorce papers and were then submitted to city hall, women being tricked into signing documents that they were told were for insurance or other purposes, and women signing divorce notices without knowing that custody of their children would be dictated by those same papers.

It is necessary to go through the courts in order to nullify a divorce notice that has already been submitted, even if it was without a spouse's consent, and this poses a huge burden for foreign nationals who are not fluent in Japanese.

Among foreign women whose former husbands used the Japanese divorce system against them, there are those who have been unable to see their children after their ex-husbands took custody, as well as those who lost their visa status and had no choice but to return to their home countries.

"It is outrageous to one-sidedly burden the person who was divorced without full consent," says Kaori Yoshijima, a consultant who handled 109 divorce-without-consent cases in fiscal 2016. "The rights of the children are not being protected, either."

The leaflet also provides information on petitions to block divorce notices from being accepted -- called "rikon fujuri moshide" -- that must be submitted to city hall to prevent a divorce from going through without the consent of both parties.

Rikon Alert made 30,000 copies of the leaflet, which are available in Japanese, English, Chinese, Korean, Tagalog, Thai, Vietnamese, Indonesia, Russian, Spanish and Portuguese.

Shuhei Ninomiya, a professor of family law at Ritsumeikan University, says, "Japan's 'divorce by agreement' is a unique system that makes one-sided divorce possible, and is found nowhere else in the world. The central government must take responsibility for offering information in multiple languages and handling consultations to prevent children from being disadvantaged."

For information included in the leaflet, and tips for those supporting foreign nationals in similar circumstances, visit the Rikon Alert website at https://atoms9.wixsite.com/rikon-alert. The site's pages are available in the aforementioned 11 languages.

Although this can affect men and women, most of the people who have felt the brunt of this have been women. Outside of the Islamic courts, we are all in agreement here that modern divorce laws mostly send men to the guillotine faster than Robespierre on cocaine. Not so fun for the ladies when the shoe is on the other foot.




Pardon the voice overs.

This is a fairly new campaign starting up, so we'll see how much traction it will gain. Judging by what I've seen in Japanese circles, it won't be much. Bureaucrats will just retreat back into the culture and language until the [/i]gaiatsu[i] (read: foreign pressure) diverts its ugly head back into flooding their own nations with unskilled immigrants. While I don't condone forgery, those who feel the violent whips of cultural isolation will remember that their appropriation doesn't work everywhere, even in developed countries. For the Japan RVF members: keep your head up and stay alert. For the rest: Learn the damn language to give yourself a fighting chance, and stop thinking that your viewpoint is the only one on the block. Or end up staring at a "it can't be helped," mantra, as your children, visa, and life whisk away like seeds in the wind.

小打も積もれば大木を倒す
shouda mo tsumoreba taiboku o taosu
With many little strokes a large tree falls.

Post: #2

Although I've never been to Japan, I don't believe it's ever really possible to assimilate their as a non-Japanese person due to the nationalistic culture. My conversations on the topic with Japanese people were punctuated with lots of 'er' and 'erm' as they attempted to diplomatically explain to me the 'uniqueness' of their country.

Based on that, I would never recommend anyone to marry into the country, men or women. Contrary to the general advice of this forum, I think living in the multicultural west would be preferable to being a permanent outsider.

Post: #3

I support the rights of any country to defend it's subjects against foreigners. So if this system helps the Japanese parent to get custody over children against a foreigner then it is good thing even if it is somewhat shady.

The same goes for countries who do not extradite their citizens to foreign courts - respect!

Post: #4

(04-30-2017 01:43 PM)Surreyman Wrote:  Although I've never been to Japan, I don't believe it's ever really possible to assimilate their as a non-Japanese person due to the nationalistic culture. My conversations on the topic with Japanese people were punctuated with lots of 'er' and 'erm' as they attempted to diplomatically explain to me the 'uniqueness' of their country.

It's not possible to assimilate. But why the hell would you want to? A lot of Japanese live a shit life. If you wanna do it, find a niche where you don't have to be Japanese.

Quote:Based on that, I would never recommend anyone to marry into the country, men or women. Contrary to the general advice of this forum, I think living in the multicultural west would be preferable to being a permanent outsider.

Disagree. I know several people who have done it and they're far, far happier than the married couples I know in the west. Imagine having a wife that likes having you around!
Maybe don't recommendations unless you know a lot about the subject?

Post: #5

(04-30-2017 01:31 PM)Wealth of Spirit Wrote:  This is a fairly new campaign starting up, so we'll see how much traction it will gain. Judging by what I've seen in Japanese circles, it won't be much. Bureaucrats will just retreat back into the culture and language until the [/i]gaiatsu[i] (read: foreign pressure) diverts its ugly head back into flooding their own nations with unskilled immigrants. While I don't condone forgery, those who feel the violent whips of cultural isolation will remember that their appropriation doesn't work everywhere, even in developed countries. For the Japan RVF members: keep your head up and stay alert. For the rest: Learn the damn language to give yourself a fighting chance, and stop thinking that your viewpoint is the only one on the block. Or end up staring at a "it can't be helped," mantra, as your children, visa, and life whisk away like seeds in the wind.

小打も積もれば大木を倒す
shouda mo tsumoreba taiboku o taosu
With many little strokes a large tree falls.

That said, this is absolutely critical advice. It's fucking appalling how many people live in Japan, and have lived in Japan for like 10 years, and couldn't understand a basic contract. I know one businessman who has contracts with several fairly large Japanese companies and literally has the vocabulary of a 10-year old. Learn the damn language. It's hard, but it's not that hard. Besides, how fun is it to only be able to talk to people in terrible katakoto? It's fine for banging sluts, or for tourist stuff, but if you want to literally spend the rest of your life there, put in the effort.

Post: #6

Those laws are fucked up too.
And the West's laws are fucked up.

Divorce laws everywhere are fucked up.

Don't get married?

Post: #7

This. And they arent the only ones. Much of non western nations are very nationalistic and even being a foreign born native youll easily be the outsider.
Its sounds fun in theory. After all grass is greener on the other side. Taking a foreign bride is risky. Espiceally from poor nations. Non western girls are way more cunning then our women.
Plus say if we do marry foreigner either we are screwed by its system and looked down as an outsider or bring her back and westernize her more so. Face it shell pick up some of our habits. Why be tradional if she aint with a native.
Rural game maybe best option in own country.
Just like what guys idnia n taiwan do....avoid city girls.
As foreigners be it in asia middle east africa india latin america. Well get more of a bias against us then here at home. Best to adapt at our home i suppose.

Post: #8

Glad the MGTOW crowd is here to offer their valuable advice that we've heard 10 million times before.

Post: #9

Fantastic.



I knew that locals have tremendous advantages over non-locals whenever divorce is concerned. And frankly this is how it should be.

1890 UK - had divorce laws even better for men.

And men are obviously not overly hit by those laws, because they are the providers.

Somehow it hits the stupid Western bitches. Good.

As if I did not have enough reasons to move to Japan long-term already.

Post: #10

(04-30-2017 01:43 PM)Surreyman Wrote:  Although I've never been to Japan, I don't believe it's ever really possible to assimilate their as a non-Japanese person due to the nationalistic culture. My conversations on the topic with Japanese people were punctuated with lots of 'er' and 'erm' as they attempted to diplomatically explain to me the 'uniqueness' of their country.

Sam is right in that you wouldn't want to. You just do whatever lets you extract the most pleasure you can from the country. You certainly don't try to assimilate. For Japan that means turning into an emotionless robot.

(04-30-2017 01:43 PM)Surreyman Wrote:  Contrary to the general advice of this forum, I think living in the multicultural west would be preferable to being a permanent outsider.

Well it's not. I tried both. Former was a 2/10 life, latter was 6/10 on average, so good step up. Also you just make foreign friends and they act as your support group / beach head. Frankly a lot of locals want to become outsiders themselves, often because they recognize their culture is emotionally suffocating and they prefer human-y foreign cultures, so they date foreigners etc.

(04-30-2017 04:50 PM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  Fantastic.

Come on man, nothing in this is fantastic. Shittyness is shittyness no matter who gets dumped on.

And that's certainly one of the more irksome things in Japan. When someone behaves like a turd, there's no group of people yelling at him (or her), him getting called out, amicus briefs being filed against him or things being appealed, or him just getting his face smashed in like he deserves. It just gets tallied onto peoples "passive aggressive accounts", and they all nod and say "sou desu ne". And if he has some power, passive aggression against him won't do shit. I've seen some outright fucking vile treatment of subordinates, and they just take it because they have age-based seniority, he'll always be older than you, and they have company-loyalty mentality. I told many of them that "and you just do it? you just take that? in my country, you wouldn't even walk back to your desk".

So the biggest question is why a foreign woman would want to come to Japan and marry a wierdo in the first place. Unless he was a much older guy, that is. It takes them until about 60 to turn into a normal human being and just freely say what they think and feel.

(04-30-2017 01:51 PM)Mage Wrote:  I support the rights of any country to defend it's subjects against foreigners. So if this system helps the Japanese parent to get custody over children against a foreigner then it is good thing even if it is somewhat shady.

Dude... So we'll let this cunt fuck over whoever he wants and separate his kids from their mother without cause because he's our cunt?

Post: #11

Ha love this. Women gets a taste of what its like to be a man getting divorced in the West.

Post: #12

(04-30-2017 01:43 PM)Surreyman Wrote:  Although I've never been to Japan, I don't believe it's ever really possible to assimilate their as a non-Japanese person due to the nationalistic culture. My conversations on the topic with Japanese people were punctuated with lots of 'er' and 'erm' as they attempted to diplomatically explain to me the 'uniqueness' of their country.

Based on that, I would never recommend anyone to marry into the country, men or women. Contrary to the general advice of this forum, I think living in the multicultural west would be preferable to being a permanent outsider.

I am familiar with a number of couples who have assimilated (intermarry) into Japan and it has worked out fine. Often times it rests with how the children look.

Really the best advice isn't necessarily MGTOW but know before you jump. People do a full on rush to get married without thinking or familiarizing with the culture.

Post: #13

(04-30-2017 07:30 PM)Phoenix Wrote:  Dude... So we'll let this cunt fuck over whoever he wants and separate his kids from their mother without cause because he's our cunt?

If it's true, it's definitely shitty behavior, and god knows there's enough shitty behavior and power harassment going on in Japan. I could easily see some sleazy guy finding out he's had enough of his foreign bride, handing her a divorce paper (That she couldn't read because she didn't speak the language) and pulling a stunt like this.

That said, there are a couple concerns I have with this. The first is a general lack of sympathy for anyone who marries a Japanese person without even speaking Japanese well enough to know basic kanji like 離婚 (Divorce), or for that matter taking the 30 minutes necessary to find out how the divorce processes work. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes, as the saying goes.

There's also plenty of nasty feminists in Japan who are easily capable of coming up with sob stories and lie to get what they want. I'm sure you're well aware of them, Phoenix, so I won't bother with any examples here. Who knows if any of the women described even exist.

Post: #14

(04-30-2017 01:31 PM)Wealth of Spirit Wrote:  Although this can affect men and women, most of the people who have felt the brunt of this have been women. Outside of the Islamic courts, we are all in agreement here that modern divorce laws mostly send men to the guillotine faster than Robespierre on cocaine. Not so fun for the ladies when the shoe is on the other foot.

most of divorced male foreigners in Japan complain about this in the forums and IRL. maybe women have more sympathy in this situation because everyone expects them to have child custody.

Post: #15

Japan is a very risky country for issues like this. Remember that Japanese lady that flew back to Japan with her two kids to get away from their father in Kentucky? He chased her back to Japan but found out the hard way that foreigners cannot take kids back from Japanese citizens. The US State dept. told him he was shit out of luck as well. Japan does not honor extraditions for taking children away from parents from the USA, even though she has a warrant for arrest, if I recall correctly.

Anyone wanting to wife up a Japanese woman, keep that in the back of your mind because it is possible, even if it is not common to hear of.

Japanese men dumping foreign women does not surprise me at all. They are no different than their other East Asian counterparts. Since divorces are man biased in East Asia, marrying a local man there makes very little sense in my opinion. The ones with big careers and lots of money trade their women out anytime they feel like it for younger girls.

There are risks in everything, just need to minimize them. Women due to their biology cannot make mistakes like that though. That's the end for the lady's life. I doubt her kids will come find her when they are able to freely leave either. I also cannot see her living there alone either. Fucked up indeed.

Post: #16

(04-30-2017 08:43 PM)e-smile Wrote:  

(04-30-2017 01:31 PM)Wealth of Spirit Wrote:  Although this can affect men and women, most of the people who have felt the brunt of this have been women. Outside of the Islamic courts, we are all in agreement here that modern divorce laws mostly send men to the guillotine faster than Robespierre on cocaine. Not so fun for the ladies when the shoe is on the other foot.

most of divorced male foreigners in Japan complain about this in the forums and IRL. maybe women have more sympathy in this situation because everyone expects them to have child custody.

Not just custody but what about her earning potential? Alimony is nothing like it is in the West.

Dudes getting dumped like this, at least can keep their money, and find a new chick. Any dude afraid of this, should not be getting married abroad in the first place.

Post: #17

(04-30-2017 02:02 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  It's not possible to assimilate. But why the hell would you want to? A lot of Japanese live a shit life. If you wanna do it, find a niche where you don't have to be Japanese.

some people complain about how hard it's to assimilate in Japan but they don't speak Japanese. I've lived there for some years and the first thing I did was to learn the language and I feel at home whenever I go there.

I feel sorry for the women (and men) this thread is about but I really don't understand how you can live and have children in a country and not learn their language.

Quote:Disagree. I know several people who have done it and they're far, far happier than the married couples I know in the west. Imagine having a wife that likes having you around!
Maybe don't recommendations unless you know a lot about the subject?

I'm married to a Japanese woman and happy with it.

Post: #18

I'd be all for Japanese courts deciding in favour of men at the expense of women, but I can't celebrate Japanese locals (male or female) engaging in outright fraud without consequence.

Post: #19

(04-30-2017 08:47 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  Not just custody but what about her earning potential? Alimony is nothing like it is in the West.

Dudes getting dumped like this, at least can keep their money, and find a new chick. Any dude afraid of this, should not be getting married abroad in the first place.

alimony should only be for childcare IMO. do guys get alimony after a divorce ? should they have one ?

I prefer Japanese divorce system than "western" divorce one where a guy can sugar daddy his wife during and after the marriage. it doesn't seem fair to me. both are adult who should work for their pittance.

Quote:Dudes getting dumped like this, at least can keep their money, and find a new chick. Any dude afraid of this, should not be getting married abroad in the first place.

girls dumped like this can't keep their money in Japan ? or do you consider the guy's money is hers ?

Post: #20

Japanese women fall hard for legit Western game. I see no problem wifing up a J-girl... they make lovely wives if you game them right. They're also dedicated mothers... but be prepared to be the kick in the ass for the kids because she won't be.

Post: #21

(04-30-2017 09:24 PM)e-smile Wrote:  

(04-30-2017 08:47 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  Not just custody but what about her earning potential? Alimony is nothing like it is in the West.

Dudes getting dumped like this, at least can keep their money, and find a new chick. Any dude afraid of this, should not be getting married abroad in the first place.

alimony should only be for childcare IMO. do guys get alimony after a divorce ? should they have one ?

I prefer Japanese divorce system than "western" divorce one where a guy can sugar daddy his wife during and after the marriage. it doesn't seem fair to me. both are adult who should work for their pittance.

Quote:Dudes getting dumped like this, at least can keep their money, and find a new chick. Any dude afraid of this, should not be getting married abroad in the first place.

girls dumped like this can't keep their money in Japan ? or do you consider the guy's money is hers ?

In the West Alimony is usually skewed in the favor of women, especially in the USA. That is not the case in Asia. Guys are not getting divorced raped there, and if they lost badly enough, they could always just leave. Try that in the US, and Comrade Sam and your home state will seize all your assets and chase you to the ends of the Earth. Women have zero incentive to stay in a marriage.

A guy in Asia getting dumped by their wife and she bolts with the kids (depending upon the country), might have to cut his losses and move on. I sometimes live in China with my wife and kids. My kids are US citizens, so my wife could never bolt with mine in China. They have no hukou (a kind of Chinese birth certificate), a Chinese passport, nor are they eligible to receive either one. We live in the USA and they were born there. If I have to leave China for any reason, the kids have to come too. They cannot stay past their visas, and the Chinese government would take them from her and send them back to me with the US consulate's assistance.

With Japan and Japanese citizens, there is nothing like this.

I love Japan alot. I actually prefer Japanese women over Chinese women (looks wise and vibe). I knew Japanese language and culture before I learned Chinese language and culture. This was a moderate sized factor in my choosing China for looking for a wife. It was not a deal breaker at all, but it did not help tip the scales over to Japan, when I consider everything else. As xenophobic and anti-foreigner Chinese people sometimes are, Japanese people are kinda worse. They are just more passive aggressive about it.

Lastly, any man afraid to start over again, will always lose in life. If a woman knows you are a pussy and will cry and beg like a little bitch, she will always have you by the balls. Always have a backup plan and let them know you will walk at the slightest hint of disrespect. You being with them is the ultimate favor, not the otherway around.

Post: #22

Notice how the issue is framed as one for a tiny number of precious Western women, when in fact the number of Western men who have been divorced by their Japanese wife and never see their kids again is much higher. There is no recourse and no suing for joint custody.

Post: #23

(04-30-2017 10:37 PM)RawGod Wrote:  Notice how the issue is framed as one for a tiny number of precious Western women, when in fact the number of Western men who have been divorced by their Japanese wife and never see their kids again is much higher. There is no recourse and no suing for joint custody.

very true

Post: #24

Her whole story is suspect

Why would he seek a divorce and split with custody if he's truly unemployed? It'd be financial ruin.

Also, all US women should realize that marriage arrangements elsewhere in the world generally involve submitting rather physically to their husband

Post: #25

(05-01-2017 07:49 AM)Sonoma Wrote:  Her whole story is suspect

Why would he seek a divorce and split with custody if he's truly unemployed? It'd be financial ruin.

Also, all US women should realize that marriage arrangements elsewhere in the world generally involve submitting rather physically to their husband

American women think marriage is a friendship or a some kind of business partnership, even many Christian ones are no different.