Post: #51

Disgusting.

When I was in Thailand thankfully the only beggers I saw were blind or had leprosy, and I gave them money happily.

Helping the needy means helping the actually fucking needy, not the people who put themselves in a position to rely on handouts

Post: #52

How I feel reading this thread:

Post: #53

(04-13-2017 07:48 AM)Sonoma Wrote:  Disgusting.

When I was in Thailand thankfully the only beggers I saw were blind or had leprosy, and I gave them money happily.

Helping the needy means helping the actually fucking needy, not the people who put themselves in a position to rely on handouts

As has been pointed out by others, most of the time the amputees etc. are working for organized crime and see none of that money.

Just don't give anything, to anyone.

Post: #54

(04-13-2017 02:11 PM)atlant Wrote:  As has been pointed out by others, most of the time the amputees etc. are working for organized crime and see none of that money.

Just don't give anything, to anyone.

That may be the case. But it's not as if some crippled guy can resist the mob. And it still may be his only meal. Speaking of which, many times I'll just go buy some street food from a cart and give it to the guy. That way I know he's getting some grub.

Post: #55

(04-13-2017 02:18 PM)BrewDog Wrote:  

(04-13-2017 02:11 PM)atlant Wrote:  As has been pointed out by others, most of the time the amputees etc. are working for organized crime and see none of that money.

Just don't give anything, to anyone.

That may be the case. But it's not as if some crippled guy can resist the mob. And it still may be his only meal. Speaking of which, many times I'll just go buy some street food from a cart and give it to the guy. That way I know he's getting some grub.

I've been turned down by homeless people giving them food so many times I stopped trying. If you're not hungry enough to eat my food you don't belong begging on the street. Shit, I bet some of those hippie backpackers would even take some free food.

Post: #56

(04-13-2017 02:40 PM)Shimmy Wrote:  I've been turned down by homeless people giving them food so many times I stopped trying. If you're not hungry enough to eat my food you don't belong begging on the street. Shit, I bet some of those hippie backpackers would even take some free food.

Those asshats. I'll give them some street food.

Post: #57

(04-13-2017 02:11 PM)atlant Wrote:  

(04-13-2017 07:48 AM)Sonoma Wrote:  Disgusting.

When I was in Thailand thankfully the only beggers I saw were blind or had leprosy, and I gave them money happily.

Helping the needy means helping the actually fucking needy, not the people who put themselves in a position to rely on handouts

As has been pointed out by others, most of the time the amputees etc. are working for organized crime and see none of that money.

Just don't give anything, to anyone.

It would be awesome if there was an amputee mafia.

Or biker gang. Usually, you gotta cut somebody's ear off to join one of those. I wonder how the amputees do it?

Aloha!

Post: #58

(04-13-2017 02:09 AM)BrewDog Wrote:  

(04-13-2017 01:32 AM)Hyyish Wrote:  I experienced something similar in Vang Vieng this week (small party town in Laos for backpackers). Was out drinking in a bar then a random girl comes up to me asking if I want to share a burger. She wanted to share a burger so she could pay 50%. If you can't afford a 2$ burger it's time to get the fuck home..

Bro, that girl was hitting on you.

She was an elephant, no thanks!

Post: #59

(04-13-2017 03:04 PM)Kona Wrote:  

(04-13-2017 02:11 PM)atlant Wrote:  

(04-13-2017 07:48 AM)Sonoma Wrote:  Disgusting.

When I was in Thailand thankfully the only beggers I saw were blind or had leprosy, and I gave them money happily.

Helping the needy means helping the actually fucking needy, not the people who put themselves in a position to rely on handouts

As has been pointed out by others, most of the time the amputees etc. are working for organized crime and see none of that money.

Just don't give anything, to anyone.

It would be awesome if there was an amputee mafia.

Or biker gang. Usually, you gotta cut somebody's ear off to join one of those. I wonder how the amputees do it?

Aloha!

I remember one morning, early in Dublin. I was heading into work and I noticed a car pull up on the other side of the road.

There was hardly anybody around. Four men got out of the car, a Mercedes, probably about 10 years old.

I recognised them, the local Roma beggars. I was surprised because I thought they were all lame. You would see them hobbling around on crutches, begging with their toothless gurns.

Sure enough, the crutches followed them out of the car, one each. They turned the corner onto the main street and split up.

It's shameful how people prey on the good nature of strangers.

Post: #60

The images themselves are pretty disheartening. They seem so content getting their pompous lives paid for. You almost hope they end up breaking a law in one of those situations. Cops seem to usually handle those types well and lend a dose of reality.

Post: #61

(04-11-2017 09:39 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

This bitch? I might be able to come to some other sort of arrangement.

Plus, she'd get to use your shower.

Post: #62

I recognize the "kazakh" beg packers (the mohawk and glassed ones)... When I was in Laos working at the Korean Restaurant, these two fuckers came to ask for free food in xmas. I was about to tell these fuckers - FUCK OFF, but my boss said No since it was christmas day and these shit heads ate for free. These shit heads were taking advantage of Christmas day and kindness of my boss, I absolutely despise these guys.

Post: #63

(04-14-2017 11:14 AM)Jetset Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 09:39 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

This bitch? I might be able to come to some other sort of arrangement.

Plus, she'd get to use your shower.

WBWDC

Would Bang with Double Condoms and a nose plug.

Post: #64

Quote:There was this one famous NYC beggar who made literally millions, but he put in a tremendous amount of work - 10 hours daily, 7 days a week.

So.. this guy IS the 1% !!!

Literally.

Post: #65

Remember me to give them a knuckle sandwich if I see one of them in Bangkok. Some people genuinely need cash for their next meal, and those ones get their lifestyles financed by the taxpayers.

Post: #66

I also think that this sucks and it's not okay to beg in a third world country as a westerner... But guys what the fuck is wrong with you? No one forces anyone to give money to them. Let them do whatever they think that makes them happy as long as they are not hurting or harassing anyone. I didn't know that this forum is full of desperate assholes who prefer to write on the internet about beating up people or even doing it in real life instead of giving a shit about those beg packers, while spending time with a hot girl, improving your personality, creating a business or doing something else that puts value in your life... If you really think those beg packers are the reason why your life, your game or whatever doesn't work out how you want it to be then you are lost.

Post: #67

Like with the David Bond shit, it's very much relevant because it shapes the perception of foreigners in these countries. It's not much by itself but it all adds up.

Post: #68

(04-16-2017 01:29 PM)King of the Bongo Wrote:  I also think that this sucks and it's not okay to beg in a third world country as a westerner... But guys what the fuck is wrong with you? No one forces anyone to give money to them. Let them do whatever they think that makes them happy as long as they are not hurting or harassing anyone. I didn't know that this forum is full of desperate assholes who prefer to write on the internet about beating up people or even doing it in real life instead of giving a shit about those beg packers, while spending time with a hot girl, improving your personality, creating a business or doing something else that puts value in your life... If you really think those beg packers are the reason why your life, your game or whatever doesn't work out how you want it to be then you are lost.

We are not talking about 'game' here. We are talking about a lack of respect that some entitled foreigners have towards local people. Some of whom cannot even afford to buy bread to feed their families.

I'm not big into the online shaming thing but in this case shame on, a real embarrassment.

Post: #69

These guys come from countries (North America, Western Europe...) where any illegal is given free food, shelter, healthcare, psychological help, language courses and job insertion for free by the government. They even get free flight tickets and money if they agree to go back to their country.

So these retards expect the same to happen to them when they travel overseas. But guess what...

Post: #70

Begging can be considered a job in many ways.

Interestingly it does demand a strike to one's sense of self-worth as it requires literally lowering yourself to the median of the populace in order to inspire their sense of superiority,whether its pity or scorn in order to be given alms/freebies.etc
Some people, such as -but not limited to- the gypsy tribes have made it into their traditional culture pretty much while many an opportunist can appreciate its benefits (of which I was no exception despite really being a pathetic homeless vagrant) and have built even their economy around it.

Regularity brings diminishing returns, but this is only noticeable in smaller/more neighborly urban areas however a long term dedication might bring side benefits (such as cops no longer trying to scare/run you away in areas where that legislation is grayish) that in many cases will be enough to cover food necessities . If you are not very selective about your nutrition (most people in the "street life" aren't) then you will definitely have a positive income if you put in/have figured the hours and areas;specially in countries of a long standing catholic/charity tradition.

For those that aren't part of an organized begging ring it is very likely that a big part of that income will be destined to booze,tobacco and drugs as in western countries charities where showers,food and sometimes shelter can be procured*. This is specially true in the case of the truly homeless (I speak of experience when I say there are days that the only thing you are looking forward to is numbing yourself drunk to avoid addressing the reality that you are in).
With the hippies and punks (4life burnouts or part -time brats) my experience was no different,as these are more versed and/or enthusiastic about dumpster diving they would often destine the almost entirety of their income to drugs.
*It should be noted however,that at least in Europe,these charities are often overloaded and cordoned off by freeloaders who are usually of gypsy,NA or ME origins

There was this crack head a few years ago when I was in NOLA who would ride his bike around town and rather disgustingly ask everyone in his sight for money:His usual line was "Hey,can you give me a dollar?". Most people would tell him to fuck off but by the end of the night you could see the bastard counting his stack often to 400 $ or more. One time he was at the same bar my mentor artsy guy and I were in and told him that the reason he didn't make more money was that he was "too nice".
He blew all his cash on crack I was told,which I was inclined to believe as I had seen him sleeping a couple of times in one of the many damaged houses of the 9th ward.

It's kind of an old story and cliche to discover how begging could become more profitable than an actual profession that has been covered in many stories but the only one that comes to mind is a short story of Sherlock Holmes in which a respectable man engages in such a practice.

It's interesting to observe as well that some Buddhist monks are actually required to spend some time begging as part of their education in order to learn humility and I guess further shatter the illusions of existence or whatever.
For myself I can definitely say it chopped my ego a few pegs down at least...

Post: #71

(04-16-2017 01:29 PM)King of the Bongo Wrote:  But guys what the fuck is wrong with you? No one forces anyone to give money to them. Let them do whatever they think that makes them happy as long as they are not hurting or harassing anyone.

There's a real impact. Fairly or not, their behavior affects the way that locals perceive foreigners in general. Guilt by association and all that.

Post: #72

(04-23-2017 02:37 PM)El_Gostro Wrote:  Begging can be considered a job in many ways.

No, it is not a job. A job exchanges goods or services for money. Begging exchanges nothing for money. A beg-packer or crusty punk may be standing out there asking all day, but it is not a contract they have entered into with anyone else, it is something they are forcing on the world around them.

Neither is it comparable to Buddhist monks, mendicants, Sadhus or any other sort of holy man, whose spiritual sacrifice is seen as having benefit to some cultures, but not any Western culture. The days are long gone when the village took it upon themselves to look after the holy hermit on the hill. I guess in India and other Asian societies, they still give alms to holy men, but most beg-packers and train hoppers ain't holy men.

You say their ego takes a hit, well, yeah, that is right, because they are begging; it isn't natural to beg or accept charity when a person is able bodied and capable, unless it is to get through temporary hardship, and even then, most people know it isn't their proudest moment.

What I really hate about the able bodies beggers is that they try to convince themselves they are smarter than the normies, or are living some existence everyone else is jealous of, or are somehow, as I saw one cardboard sign say:

"Testing Human Kindness."

They can do it if they want, but it isn't a job and it isn't some spiritual endeavor. There is nothing wrong with travelling on the cheap, and staying on couches, as long as you offer to cook a meal or clean up or you are an invited guest.

But just sitting there, asking, commanding, and sometimes threatening people to get them to pay for drugs and booze and tobacco, is a very low form of existence, and it really does lead to a sense of entitlement and learned helplessness which are contradictory and can really fuck a person up.

It is the rationalizing that is the worst thing about it, because people not only lower themselves, and impose on other people, but they convince themselves they are superior in the process, which is a bad way to start out in life.

Post: #73

Perhaps I used an incorrect definition of "job" in that case.
However I am not attempting to rationalize but rather analyze these peculiar approaches.

I would say that in many instances there is actually an exchange-at least in in the laces witj a tradition if charity - call it "karma points" if you will. The donor obtains some sort of moral and/or status compensation, regardless of it being personal or public ("I helped a poor person today, I am a good person ")

Morals aside, it still is something that can be further studied and refined into a life long dedication, much like scam-artistry or a thievery.

In Europe at least," begging youngsters passing through" aren't that much of a novelty and have been around for some decades apparently.

In the case of entitlement:
I did point out what ends up happening with in most charities.
If you want an example of how it can degenerate at a greater level look at the welfare state.

So why does begging only equate humbleness in the case of the Buddhist monks? Wouldn't that be Like saying Karate only equates martial art in the case of the Japanese?

Post: #74

Hey, El Gostro,

I was pretty emphatic because my town is one of the most tolerant and giving places I have ever lived, and it has led to travelers flocking here and getting extremely aggressive, running people out of parks and even the downtown, at times, is shake down central, so I was to a certain degree responding in frustration to that situation.

You could say that people are receiving karma points for giving to the poor, however it could also be argued that the need to give back has been hijacked by opportunists, who are using people's compassion against them, and money that could have been given to someone who, say, needs some money to feed their kids, goes instead to an intimidating group of young people blocking the sidewalk instead, and is given more out of fear than anything else, and then rationalized as charity.

Also, like in a place where I live, it is truly a giver's market, and if you walk from one end of town to the other, you will be asked for stuff between five and thirty times, and there are way more people demanding free stuff than there are people with free stuff to spare, and each one of the askers is acting like they are the only person doing it, and can get very irate if they aren't immediately given what they want.

You are right, it is a fascinating social study, and is worth talking about. I once knew a gypsy who was in town and he confirmed a lot of the suspicions people have about them, telling me a lot about the constant moving, changing of identities, and the scams they use. While they do seem to be tough in the survival sense, they are completely separate from the mainstream and do not share values like:

• A man's word is his bond
• It is better to give than receive
• All people deserve respect
  

You get the idea. They have no sense of fair play concerning other people, and if they can scam someone by pretending to fall in a supermarket or pretending to tell their future, there is no sense of pride or fairness holding them back. You might even say that the gypsy culture is the logical conclusion of the beg packer impulse, a separate clannish group who has no ties to any community or sense of responsibility.

On a practical level, you can only have a few tiny subcultures like this in a greater culture, or everyone is just out looking at each other as mere servants or conveniences, and there is zero trust, zero civic responsibility, zero civilization.

This is why beg packers rub so many people the wrong way, because they have the resources and skills to fund their own trips, and are saying, basically, fuck it, let other people take care of me, even people from poorer cultures.

You don't want to be a twenty year old whose main role model is the old homeless dude, that doesn't lead anywhere good.

As to the distinction between the monk and the traveler, it is all a matter of sincerity and intent. The holy man has sacrificed the normal life to live a higher spiritual truth, and it is out of respect to that sacrifice that people give him alms. There is a lot of hostility and superiority in the manner of the beg packer, and also a strange satisfaction in the use of guilt and charity to get what they want from people, which has nothing in common with spirituality.

I would modify your metaphor, and say just because you have a karate gi, it doesn't make you a black belt.

I agree that there is a long tradition of the youth hitting the road and traveling as a rite of passage, and there have been times when I have been that youth, and also times when I have picked them up hitchhiking, or let them stay at my place, or given them money.

It is just that again, that only works when every now and then, some scruffy person with a back pack comes through your town, and you show them some hospitality out of kindness or out of a wistful appreciation of their freedom.

It doesn't work when the takers far outnumber the givers, and there is a constant stream of demanding strangers coming through your town aggressively demanding things.

Like in my town, there is so much free stuff available, and places to stay or park your van that anyone asking for spare change for food is a joke. There is free food and services everywhere. They just want money. Also, there are a lot of guys flying signs asking for work who just want money, and will turn down work, or food when it is offered. They actually get mad if anyone takes their sign at face value.

So, I am not against people asking for money, or traveling and accepting hospitality on principle, I am against where it leads when too many people do it. You get a town like mine, where the beggers act like customers, and expect the givers to act like businesses being paid for services, which they are obviously not.

Post: #75

My apologies for not replying earlier (busy week)

I also apologize for not having correctly interpreted your post.
Your reasoning is solid and I will confess after all my lengthy rambles that I would smirk if I saw one of these beg-packers in my vicinity being punched by a rightfully angry citizen