Post: #61626

Wow. This has been the most disappointing day in a long time for a number of reasons. I'm already growing weary of playing table-tennis with various members who I respect and enjoy the contributions of. I'm getting the sense that nothing good is going to come from speculating on this. So I'm going to drop my opinion here and leave it at that. Afterward I'll eject from the Trump threads until I see a light at the end of the tunnel, which I now contend will be never.

There has been a growing sense of dread among some of the members here about whether Trump would come through for America and in a sense for Western civilisation. There has also been a growing sense of dread about whether he ever intended to in the first place. For the record I'm in the former camp. I want to believe that he ran with the best intentions, but after the first month passed there was a window of opportunity that came and went. I missed it at the time as did most others I suspect. I only see it in hindsight.

Trump's ego has been his undoing. I understand now why the elites and their lackeys caved in and let him run wild in that first month. We all laughed and laughed about how they were in disarray, but I'm starting to believe it was quite deliberate. It gave Trump and his people the mistaken belief that they were on an unstoppable run. That they could make the MAGA omelette and that they wouldn't even have to break any eggs to do it. And in that precious month that opportunity slipped by.

That opportunity was the opportunity to tell the American people from the mouth of their own president precisely how their government was being run, by whom and for whom. At any time until the end of that month he could have exorcised the demon. Given it a name. Given it a face. Allowed the people of America and the West beyond to know their enemy. He didn't need a briefing or access to top secret documents. He only needed to say what everyone knew but couldn't force the world to acknowledge. That every strata of the American government has been systematically corrupted to create a globalist empire and an omniscient police state.

Like an exorcism the pain would have been all but unbearable. The elites would howl and lash out however they were able. But in a greater sense the minds of the American people would have been freed.

But he didn't do this and now he's trapped. That opportunity came and went. The enemy allowed him constant victories and he believed he could MAGA without having to wake the population from it's slumber. That he could wrest control of the body from the demon possessing it. But pride comes before a fall and now his opportunity has passed. If he tried to expose the deep state at this late stage then he would be ridiculed as a sore loser. A man who got a taste of the job and concocted a story to excuse his inevitable failures.

There were several members here that sounded the alarm bells early. For example, after the first month when Trump failed to take action against the antifa or against the marxist colleges. When he failed to take advantage of the plain and obvious means at his disposal to stop islamic immigration dead in its tracks. During this time I myself chose to remain blind to the fact that Trump was now caught in the elite's political quicksand, subject to a sudden need to negotiate and with each negotiation sinking deeper and deeper into impotency. "Get back on the train" we said. "4D chess" we said. Fools. We got used to winning and didn't think it would stop, but it's stopped all right. Hundreds of thousands of corrupt federal servants and the wiles of dozens of trillionaires cannot be grappled with by one man, no matter what desk he sits behind, and when he failed to get the American people in the fight by naming the demon he chose to battle those insurmountable odds by himself. A fight he was always destined to lose.

So it came and went. The last chance to name the beast. The last chance for a bloodless revolution. The last chance to restore freedom without a body count. From here on in it will be disappointment after disappointment, as surely as the sun rises. Trump will get his wall and America will get plane-loads of muslim immigrants instead of truck-loads of Mexican ones.

And by the time the next president takes his place, that wall will be used to keep Americans in, not Mexicans out.

Post: #61627

(04-07-2017 05:15 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Wow. This has been the most disappointing day in a long time for a number of reasons. I'm already growing weary of playing table-tennis with various members who I respect and enjoy the contributions of. I'm getting the sense that nothing good is going to come from speculating on this. So I'm going to drop my opinion here and leave it at that. Afterward I'll eject from the Trump threads until I see a light at the end of the tunnel, which I now contend will be never.

There has been a growing sense of dread among some of the members here about whether Trump would come through for America and in a sense for Western civilisation. There has also been a growing sense of dread about whether he ever intended to in the first place. For the record I'm in the former camp. I want to believe that he ran with the best intentions, but after the first month passed there was a window of opportunity that came and went. I missed it at the time as did most others I suspect. I only see it in hindsight.

Trump's ego has been his undoing. I understand now why the elites and their lackeys caved in and let him run wild in that first month. We all laughed and laughed about how they were in disarray, but I'm starting to believe it was quite deliberate. It gave Trump and his people the mistaken belief that they were on an unstoppable run. That they could make the MAGA omelette and that they wouldn't even have to break any eggs to do it. And in that precious month that opportunity slipped by.

That opportunity was the opportunity to tell the American people from the mouth of their own president precisely how their government was being run, by whom and for whom. At any time until the end of that month he could have exorcised the demon. Given it a name. Given it a face. Allowed the people of America and the West beyond to know their enemy. He didn't need a briefing or access to top secret documents. He only needed to say what everyone knew but couldn't force the world to acknowledge. That every strata of the American government has been systematically corrupted to create a globalist empire and an omniscient police state.

Like an exorcism the pain would have been all but unbearable. The elites would howl and lash out however they were able. But in a greater sense the minds of the American people would have been freed.

But he didn't do this and now he's trapped. That opportunity came and went. The enemy allowed him constant victories and he believed he could MAGA without having to wake the population from it's slumber. That he could wrest control of the body from the demon possessing it. But pride comes before a fall and now his opportunity has passed. If he tried to expose the deep state at this late stage then he would be ridiculed as a sore loser. A man who got a taste of the job and concocted a story to excuse his inevitable failures.

There were several members here that sounded the alarm bells early. For example, after the first month when Trump failed to take action against the antifa or against the marxist colleges. When he failed to take advantage of the plain and obvious means at his disposal to stop islamic immigration dead in its tracks. During this time I myself chose to remain blind to the fact that Trump was now caught in the elite's political quicksand, subject to a sudden need to negotiate and with each negotiation sinking deeper and deeper into impotency. "Get back on the train" we said. "4D chess" we said. Fools. We got used to winning and didn't think it would stop, but it's stopped all right. Hundreds of thousands of corrupt federal servants and the wiles of dozens of trillionaires cannot be grappled with by one man, no matter what desk he sits behind, and when he failed to get the American people in the fight by naming the demon he chose to battle those insurmountable odds by himself. A fight he was always destined to lose.

So it came and went. The last chance to name the beast. The last chance for a bloodless revolution. The last chance to restore freedom without a body count. From here on in it will be disappointment after disappointment, as surely as the sun rises. Trump will get his wall and America will get plane-loads of muslim immigrants instead of truck-loads of Mexican ones.

And by the time the next president takes his place, that wall will be used to keep Americans in, not Mexicans out.

I'm no longer on the Trump Train myself for similar reasons. I'm tired of the "muh 4D chess" excuses.

Post: #61628

US: We're cool with Assad staying.
Assad: Cool, now I can do whatever I want.
Trump: *bitchslap" It doesn't work like that.

For now, at least, that's all there's to it. I understand the largely negative response here, but it's disproportionate. This isn't a declaration of war, it's just feedback. I'd be surprised if this goes much further. Assad will take it down a notch and Trump will cool off. Nothing is fucked.

Post: #61629

Pretty consistent with Tillerson's interview in the other Syria thread about how they're putting together a Coalition Of The Willing 2.0 to intervene and remove Assad.

Goodnight, America.

God save us from people who mean well. -storm

Post: #61630

This is why I don't bow down to any single glorified walking meat-bag.
No human is perfect.

Post: #61631

(04-07-2017 05:46 AM)Akwesi Wrote:  US: We're cool with Assad staying.
Assad: Cool, now I can do whatever I want.
Trump: *bitchslap" It doesn't work like that.

For now, at least, that's all there's to it. I understand the largely negative response here, but it's disproportionate. This isn't a declaration of war, it's just feedback. I'd be surprised if this goes much further. Assad will take it down a notch and Trump will cool off. Nothing is fucked.

That only works if there is evidence that it was definitely Assad's forces that carried out the attack, which we have not yet seen.

It's Trump seemingly falling for the usual neocon false flag escalation that had got everyone down.

But.

You can only join the dots connecting events in hindsight, not in the moment. We need to see how this unfolds over the next few days.

Post: #61632

Morning news today has hosts asking "was the missile strike enough retribution? What is next?" Zero trump bashing though, today he has their seal of approval.

Post: #61633

I'm as bitterly disappointed as many are here. However to keep things in perspective, over 12000 US bombs were dropped on Syria in 2016 alone, and we heard very little about these strikes.

Post: #61634

Hell.
Trump may have shown that his bark is worse than his bite.

Eyewitness says Syrian military anticipated U.S. raid

http://abcnews.go.com/International/eyew...d=46641107

Syrian military officials appeared to anticipate Thursday's night raid on Syria's Shayrat airbase, evacuating personnel and moving equipment ahead of the strike, according to an eyewitness to the strike.
Dozens of Tomahawk missiles struck the airbase near Homs damaging runways, towers and traffic control buildings, a local resident and human rights activist living near the airbase told ABC News via an interpreter.

Local residents say the Russian military had used the airbase in early 2016 but have since withdrawn their officers, so the base is now mainly operated by Syrian and Iranian military officers. There is also a hotel near the airport where Iranian officers have been staying, though it was not clear whether it was damaged.

Former National Security Adviser and ABC News contributor Richard Clarke said this attack, one of the quickest displays of force by a new president in recent history, is largely "symbolic."

Post: #61635

I'll be listening to liberal talk radio today to see how their tune has changed.

Post: #61636

What a bunch of crybabies some of you are.

Wait for it... you'll be feeling silly soon.

Even PJW went full uterine last night. Need to walk it back.

Post: #61637

I know everyone wants to cry in their cereal today....but...

1. If Russia didn't want us to bomb Syria in such a fashion they could have stopped us.
2. I believe this relates to the "Red Line" Obama said existed...and when it was "crossed" felt the need to ponder that over a round of Golf. That red line cannot be crossed again.

Symbolic? Perhaps....I do know the Globalists are happy.

I believe this is a one off (for now).

Post: #61638

First caller into Cernovich periscope, throws the Jewish/Isreali angle. Mike acts like he has no clue and doesnt respond. Calls weak signal and hangs up.

I turned it off after

Post: #61639

Post: #61640

(04-07-2017 06:44 AM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  I'll be listening to liberal talk radio today to see how their tune has changed.

Still on "muh russia"

also, they are working the "Trump did not get congressional approval for strike, he should be impeached"

Post: #61641

Post: #61642

I'm kind of wondering what the big deal is about the hit on Syria. America bombs countries (or "cruises" them in this case) when we don't like what they do. Such actions are almost instinctual. Ingrained in our DNA at this point. Kind of ho hum if you think about it.

If anything, Trump is just showing he's getting the hang of the job. You aren't a real American president until you've called on military firepower and used it on someone. It's become a right of passage. Like a soldier of ancient times dipping his fingers in the blood of his first kill and painting his face with it.

Trump is just going by the standard American playbook. Nothing more. The mainstream media will continue to attack this guy no matter what he does, no matter how "normal" it was considered with earlier occupants of the Oval Office.

Trump's presidency was never fated to be smooth ride. It's going to be an uphill battle and firefight with no letup until the very end.

Post: #61643

(04-07-2017 07:31 AM)EEB Wrote:  I'm kind of wondering what the big deal is about the hit on Syria. America bombs countries (or "cruises" them in this case) when we don't like what they do. Such actions are almost instinctual. Ingrained in our DNA at this point. Kind of ho hum if you think about it.

If anything, Trump is just showing he's getting the hang of the job. You aren't a real American president until you've called on military firepower and used it on someone. It's become a right of passage.

If it's not a big deal to some, then it should be.

Post: #61644

For a bit of light relief look at Trump's critical tweets from 2013 regarding Obama authorizing an attack on Syria

https://www.rt.com/usa/383834-trump-syri...ld-tweets/

I would single out the following tweet in particular:

"The President must get Congressional approval before attacking Syria-big mistake if he does not!" - Donald J. Trump

Post: #61645

After having slept on it, I feel better about the whole situation. Trump was served up a scenario, whether real or fabricated (and I firmly believe the latter) and like EEB said above, he reacted by the standard American playbook.

Anyone pointing to Trump tweets from 2013 to try and show his hypocrisy - the game had changed, with "chemical weapons" being "used" by "Assad". Coupled with the most effective weapon: emotional propaganda in photos, videos, and victim stories. A different time, and scenario, then when Trump was making those statements 4 years ago.

If Trump didn't react this way and instead said we need more time, we need to investigate, etc. etc. then you'd get another onslaught of anti-Trump rhetoric from everyone. Instead, everybody in the media has folded and nary a pee from anti-Trumpers. And what the hell are a few missiles worth, anyways (rhetorical question, we know)

If an investigation happens and proof comes out that it wasn't an Assad-sanctioned attack, then that gives Trump cover to go after the intelligence community and, more importantly, the deep state - kind of like he was doing in December/January if you recall. I wouldn't see that hurting Trump at all, and it'd be a valuable/teachable moment to not be so fucking emotional and quick to judgment and instead question and investigate everything.

The three things bothering me right now are are the following:

(1) The impression that Trump changed his mind seeing pictures of children. There are tens of millions of children sick, starving, or living out a meagre existence in third-world, or war-torn, or dictator-run countries around the world. I expect better out of Trump, or the president, to not be so emotional (but we're living in a time where emotion trumps logic/reason 99 times out of 100, so fair enough)

(2) That people believe this is going to stop the "Trump is an agent of Putin" rhetoric. You already have news reports coming out saying the U.S. warned Russia beforehand about when and where they'd strike, so, there goes your attempt to dislodge that narrative. They'll just claim he's still a stooge and this is a fake show of force to try and deflect - just wait.

(3) Unrelated to this fiasco, but Bannon's supposed displacement in the white house, coupled with Kushner's ascendancy. Kushner has to go, and if he did chances are good he'd take Ivanka with him - that would be one of the best possible actions for the current administration. I won't hold my breath. I'm firmly on the "Kushner must go" bandwagon and considering the anti-Trump media and "resistance" forces are starting to beat the drum on that, I'd say all Trump supporters should also back up that call. Literally everyone's united on getting that little shit out of there.


So I can take a few missiles, but yeah, "boots on the ground" and that's it. So long to your 2nd term, Trump. It would've been nice if he didn't follow the typical playbook and instead tried an investigation/getting more evidence because of how incredibly sketchy this whole situation is.

Post: #61646

(04-07-2017 07:51 AM)Last Parade Wrote:  After having slept on it, I feel better about the whole situation. Trump was served up a scenario, whether real or fabricated (and I firmly believe the latter) and like EEB said above, he reacted by the standard American playbook.

Anyone pointing to Trump tweets from 2013 to try and show his hypocrisy - the game had changed, with "chemical weapons" being "used" by "Assad". Coupled with the most effective weapon: emotional propaganda in photos, videos, and victim stories. A different time, and scenario, then when Trump was making those statements 4 years ago.

If Trump didn't react this way and instead said we need more time, we need to investigate, etc. etc. then you'd get another onslaught of anti-Trump rhetoric from everyone. Instead, everybody in the media has folded and nary a pee from anti-Trumpers. And what the hell are a few missiles worth, anyways (rhetorical question, we know)

If an investigation happens and proof comes out that it wasn't an Assad-sanctioned attack, then that gives Trump cover to go after the intelligence community and, more importantly, the deep state - kind of like he was doing in December/January if you recall. I wouldn't see that hurting Trump at all, and it'd be a valuable/teachable moment to not be so fucking emotional and quick to judgment and instead question and investigate everything.

The three things bothering me right now are are the following:

(1) The impression that Trump changed his mind seeing pictures of children. There are tens of millions of children sick, starving, or living out a meagre existence in third-world, or war-torn, or dictator-run countries around the world. I expect better out of Trump, or the president, to not be so emotional (but we're living in a time where emotion trumps logic/reason 99 times out of 100, so fair enough)

(2) That people believe this is going to stop the "Trump is an agent of Putin" rhetoric. You already have news reports coming out saying the U.S. warned Russia beforehand about when and where they'd strike, so, there goes your attempt to dislodge that narrative. They'll just claim he's still a stooge and this is a fake show of force to try and deflect - just wait.

(3) Unrelated to this fiasco, but Bannon's supposed displacement in the white house, coupled with Kushner's ascendancy. Kushner has to go, and if he did chances are good he'd take Ivanka with him - that would be one of the best possible actions for the current administration. I won't hold my breath. I'm firmly on the "Kushner must go" bandwagon and considering the anti-Trump media and "resistance" forces are starting to beat the drum on that, I'd say all Trump supporters should also back up that call. Literally everyone's united on getting that little shit out of there.


So I can take a few missiles, but yeah, "boots on the ground" and that's it. So long to your 2nd term, Trump. It would've been nice if he didn't follow the typical playbook and instead tried an investigation/getting more evidence because of how incredibly sketchy this whole situation is.

You wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------
Anyone pointing to Trump tweets from 2013 to try and show his hypocrisy - the game had changed, with "chemical weapons" being "used" by "Assad". Coupled with the most effective weapon: emotional propaganda in photos, videos, and victim stories. A different time, and scenario, then when Trump was making those statements 4 years ago.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

No, the situation is exactly the same. At that time it was also alleged that Assad had used chemical weapons - in a suburb of Damascus. The case later disintegrated.

Post: #61647

(04-07-2017 06:56 AM)Gmac Wrote:  What a bunch of crybabies some of you are.

Wait for it... you'll be feeling silly soon.

Even PJW went full uterine last night. Need to walk it back.

Yep. It really is amazing how quick people are to jump to conclusions when their own confirmation bias wires are tripped.

I get the feeling of bitter disappointment, because I am, but it's easy to Monday morning quarterback. The militant response is good though. Trump needs to know that his base is not going to support him on this shit in the long run.

Everything depends on what comes next. This by itself is not a huge deal. It's consistent with what Scott Adams wrote. It clears a lot of the cobwebs that unfortunately Trump had no control over.

The talk from Tillerson, et al is concerning though. That's where you keep your eyes on. A no fly zone or "coalition of the willing" is your tell. Pay attention to those two phrases.

Post: #61648

(04-07-2017 05:04 AM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  

(04-07-2017 03:15 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  The 'elites' and many ordinary, informed, and decent people want Assad's head for a number of reasons......

This reads like an op-ed in the NYT. Right down to the word elites being in quotation marks so as to imply that the rest of us are conspiracy theorists.

Next you're gonna call us misogynists

I can't in good conscience use the word 'elites' in the way many here use it. I am from a background whereby I went to school with, and count as friends, many of those you would label as being part of the 'elite'. From a life time of staying at their houses, sharing institutions with them, and being considered a part of that world, I do consider a lot of the wackier stuff about 'elites' and their conspiracies to be fundamentally removed from reality, and divorced from reason.

Like any other group, there are some good ones, some bad ones, and some that probably go either way depending on whether you're in their strata or not.

You will notice, as will any fair minded audience, that I have not been the one to call any names, or cast any aspersions, though one or two have been cast my way in response. I have provided my thoughts, and my reasons for them. They have been substantiated by argument and reference to history, and are there to judge on their own merits.

If there are reasoned objections to the points I have made, then I have yet to hear them. 'Globalist shill' or the implication thereof, is about as close as you, or the others, have come to any kind of meaningful refutation. I'm quite open to debate, quite averse to being silenced by cheap slurs.

Post: #61649

(04-07-2017 07:57 AM)rockoman Wrote:  You wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------
Anyone pointing to Trump tweets from 2013 to try and show his hypocrisy - the game had changed, with "chemical weapons" being "used" by "Assad". Coupled with the most effective weapon: emotional propaganda in photos, videos, and victim stories. A different time, and scenario, then when Trump was making those statements 4 years ago.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

No, the situation is exactly the same. At that time it was also alleged that Assad had used chemical weapons - in a suburb of Damascus. The case later disintegrated.

But was the emotional propaganda so effective back then? The media narrative so compelling?

I also wonder if the show of force really would've been necessary if they hadn't publicized their "we're leaving Syria alone" posture literally days before this attack happened AND if the king of Jordan hadn't been visiting the white house the day after it happened. Just a perfect confluence of events.

Lastly, I take Trump's tweets from back then to be referring to a full-scale invasion. Is congressional approval really needed for launching a few missiles? I always assumed it was just for boots on the ground.

Post: #61650

Quote:Syria rebels welcome US strike, urge more

https://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/201...irstrikes/



Allahu Akbar fact finding mission successful.

The media and the CIA would never lie about anything.
We know that all their information was as valid as can be.
In fact the people listened to the media diligently and elected Donald Trump into office.

Quote:“Hitting one airbase is not enough, there are 26 airbases that target civilians,” a key figure in the Army of Islam faction, Mohamed Alloush, said on his Twitter account.

“The whole world should save the Syrian people from the clutches of the killer Bashar (al-Assad) and his aides.”

Other rebel groups welcomed the US strike and called for continued military action against the regime.