Post: #1

What's up guys. So, I wanted to start a thread on an well-worn topic, but from a new angle.

There have been a couple threads on impregnating a girl per se. One that talks about the general desire (/thread-7138.html), then one that talks about it in terms of having dozens of children (/thread-33522.html).

Here I wanted to start a thread specifically devoted to an question that has crossed my my mind many times, and I'm sure some of you on this forum think about it too from time to time.

The question is this: Would you ever impregnate a girl outside of marriage intentionally, with zero plan to marry her? If so, under what conditions?

BACKGROUND

I am one of those guys on the forum that really wants to have kids. I long to have children. From a biological point of view I want to have offspring, but also I want to be a father in an aspirational sense.

Anyways, there was a very eloquent and elucidative thread awhile back about being a father and how it is case for man to normally have this desire and need (/thread-39579.html). There is also a large thread started by Roosh about the growing desire to be a father (/thread-50724.html)

There have also been threads about guys who found a good wife (/thread-57475.html), found a wife and impregnated her (/thread-50925.html), and threads about what qualities to find in a wife abroad (/thread-50002.html) etc etc.

But lets revisit the topic of impregnating a girl in a different way...

First and foremost, the guys on this forum know the laws and courts in the United States favor women, and consequently put men at great risk when it comes to marriage. This is the reality and is likely not going to change in our generation. Even if you marry abroad, once you come back to the US, you will be subject to US laws and courts.

Now, this has been re-hashed on RVF many times. With no-fault divorce + alimony, a girl can just up and leave because she is 'dissatisfied' and take half your stuff and/or demand alimony payments for the rest of her life. She can ruin your career, your sanity, and your position within a community.

She can cheat on you starting with a swipe and tap of her thumb, and it's downhill from there... There have been court cases in the USA where a man was required to pay child support for a kid that wasn't even his.

Again, the guys on this forum know all about this. Divorce initiated by women is approaching 80%, and divorce / family court is run by an entirely different set of presumptions than ordinary constitutional law courts (see the eye-opening Divorce Corp documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfRDZ4iOnSo)... I think you could make the case that it is the worst climate for marriage that has ever existed.

So... what is the game plan in light of this if you want kids?

The current cultural and legal climate (of the West) actively hinders having a successful marriage and makes it far too much of a downside risk to consider going into it unless you have found your unicorn-- perhaps EVEN IF you found your unicorn.

So you have a couple options...

THE MARRY-THE-FOREIGN-UNICORN OPTION

Lets say you try to take the marry-the-unicorn option and in true RVF style go to another country and find your girl...

If you choose this option and if you stay with her there in her native land, presumably you would want a culture which favors men in the marriage department. (Otherwise you jump from the frying pan and into the fire.)

But there are huge downsides to this option. You would have to give up your own homeland and probably your language. You would also live far away from your current family (if you have one), and you would have to raise your kids there in that foreign culture (has its pros and cons). You would have to deal with all the BS there is in adjusting to a country that is not your own.

But if you choose the unicorn option and bring her back to the West, you will have to deal with a girl who takes the shape of the container they are put in. You can rest assured that within a couple years, she will begin to adjust to the new culture and consider 'switching ladders' to guys who are richer or better positioned in life.

And let's not forget, she will join 'expat' facebook groups with nationals of her home country, where they openly discuss the AMAZING LEGALITIES IN THE USA in favor of entitlements for divorcing women. They will also tell her that she shouldn't do the dishes or the cooking, and that he should be making more money. All the Cultural Marxist, anti-family crap.

This will DEFINITELY happen, at least at a minimum exposure level. It's a big risk and will undermine the chances you will have a successful marriage.

So that's the "marry-the-foreign-unicorn" option.

But there's an alternative to this, if you want children...

THE KNOCK-UP-A-GOOD-GIRL OPTION

The alternative to finding and marrying the unicorn is to simply impregnate a girl you think would be a good mother, and leave marriage out of it.

Whereas 10 years ago I wouldn't have considered this possibility, it has come on my radar as a possible option as I've gotten older, although I wouldn't do it haphazardly.

Honestly, I really wish my kid(s) would have a happy, intact family-- a good mother and a good father living together-- and a home to grow up in. I wish the society and marriage was led by men. But the climate of cultural marxism, feminism and anti-marriage make matrimony a MUCH bigger risk than it use to be.

The unicorns are, by definition, rare. You might not find yours, and you have to consider this possibility, don't you? As you age, the ability to procure undamaged, zero-or-next-to-zero notch count girls goes way down.

Moreover, there are also practical concerns about one's age... I really don't want to be an old, low-energy man having a kid. I want to be able to keep up with him somewhat, and enjoy being a father and training my kid in various ways, playing sports with him, etc.

EXAMPLE: THE POTENTIAL GIRL (NOT A UNICORN)

So, what really brought all this into focus was a trip I went on.

I recently was in a foreign country, and I came across a girl who I think would make a great mother. She is very sweet and kind, and you can just tell she would be good to her children. Very solid family values and caring. She cooks and generally has a cheery attitude about her. Really a delight.

She did not meet all the requirements of my 'future wife', and so I don't think I could ever marry her. But nevertheless, I think she would be a good mother.

Given that I am in my 30s, it has been a serious thought of mine to knock her up. Again, I would not marry this girl, but she would make a good mother and I have a deep desire to have a kid and I want to get the ball rolling. (Maybe I myself have a biological clock, who knows, heh.)

But here's the thing... I would do it intentionally and 'ethically', so that I would provide child support and be involved in the kid's life. I would plan for his future and care for him as my own. This is a conscious decision, not an 'oops'.

I wouldn't do it as an 'accident', where the conception of the baby is surrounded by shock and dread, and as something that brings a burden... Rather it would be intentional and joyful, we would both be happy when it's conceived and when we get the news. We would plan for the kid's well-being and future life, etc etc.

I would avoid all the marriage legalities and still have my freedom as a single man... but also I would have my progeny, and I would have given them a good mom.

This has been what I've been thinking about for awhile.

THE QUESTION

So my question is... are any of you guys considering this? What do you think about it?

Have any of you ever done it before, how did it turn out?

Maybe I am naive regarding the demands of child-raising. But more and more people seem to be doing it, especially in the past decade (not that it means it's right, obviously). Marriage in the West is a huge risk, especially for the wealthy. Some famous couples like Shakira and Pipe have done this, and Andre Agassi and Steffi Graf.

Again, I wish the legal and cultural situation surrounding marriage and family were not how it was. I would favor a much different system of laws, culture, and expectations...

But you have to play with the cards you have been dealt, and I might be willing to consider intentionally impregnating a 'good-but-not-unicorn' girl, especially as I age.

What are your thoughts on this?

Post: #2

There's 7 billion people in the world.

Nope.

Post: #3

Your "knock up" approach assures you will have a lifetime of financial failure and insurmountable pain for all parties involved, even more so for the kid. Even though shes not your wife you will be fully on the hook($$$) for everything as if you were married or divorced, including alimony and whatever else gets tossed into the pot with her scheming lawyer.

If you want a truly unattached scenario, do what the gays do, hire a surrogate mother to make the baby, then raise the baby completely on your own.

Post: #4

I was talking with a friend about this tonight. Traditionally that's how people used to do it...they'd get betrothed or engaged
then they would move in together and usually have a kid and then get around to the marriage ceremony a year or so later.

The idea was to transition from being single to being married and making sure you both were compatible.

It's only been in (recent) times that it's been taboo to have children before the marriage ceremony
and marriage license.

Still even even if you decide to go back to the old ways, if it doesn't work out you still will be paying child support
so I wouldn't let the legal system good or bad keep you from having kids. Rather Just be prepared to take care of them
regardless of what happens and choose a woman with some skills at parenting.

Post: #5

Hell no. I don't see any point doing it other than trouble.

Post: #6

Yes,

I would provide for her like she was my wife though. I don't need a contract with the government for her to be me wife. As corny as that may sound.

Post: #7

No.

Bastardry is still a hard burden for a kid to bear. And single mothers have so much support from Daddy Government that all capacity for you to influence the kid disappears once you're not in the marriage with the mother.

On top of that, by the time your kid is old enough for you to explain that marriage is a bad deal for men, which is why you never married his mother, he will have had a good ten years or more of the intuition that his father wouldn't officially commit to his mother, and therefore would not officially commit to him either.

Basically this bullshit is "I want to have frequent sex with a woman and be around in my kid's life but I don't want to pay if she divorces me." Too bad, you're fucked anyway: many jurisdictions recognise de facto marriages, i.e. if you plan to be around for any significant time in a kid's life you're probably going to wind up being declared a de facto husband anyway, and your assets are forfeit.

You can't have this shit both ways. Provide your kid a solid, meaningful base to live on or don't have the fucking kid at all.

God save us from people who mean well. -storm

Post: #8

If a girl was hot enough(and not crazy enough) I think my hindbrain would not be able to resist trying.

Post: #9

No, of course.

In a healthy society, this wouldn't even a question.

Post: #10

Never. There are 7 billion people in this world, a LOT of them are good wives - but that implies not having kids in the West. I'm a bastard and this has always been a burden from me. And do you think that this "mother" that you're not living with will stay faithful? Nope. She'll ride miles of cock in front of your kids. No matter how nice she'll be to you, she'll ride the carousel and the kids will learn to do that too.

Do it properly or don't do it at all.

Post: #11

Yes - I would.

I even gave it some thought. But it takes resources and the right girl.

I would only pick a girl with the right mothership-worthy characteristics, impregnate and have her live close by. Actually I considered it as a future to build a mother-harem. The girls can all have their own husbands, but one child is mine.

Don't know if that is wise, but it certainly is a way to have plenty of offspring. Selection of girls is the key and also a considerable amount of accumulated wealth - otherwise forget it.

Post: #12

Yes. A rich girl with a from a family with generational wealth-Megan McCain, a Trump girl, any Billionaires Daughter.

Post: #13

(03-28-2017 04:44 AM)Atlanta Man Wrote:  Yes. A rich girl with a from a family with generational wealth-Megan McCain, a Trump girl, any Billionaires Daughter.

Those girls will abort with 99% likelihood unless you are deemed to be of excellent breeding stock.

The only exception would be moderately gutter wealthy like the Palin clan.

Otherwise the true upper class girls have the least amount of children out of wedlock - for a good reason. Their marriages do fall apart, but their preliminary children are usually from the right kind of class or at least pedigree.

Also their families exert tremendous pressure on the women, never mind the social shame associated with it among their peers. Degeneration is promoted only to the lower classes.

Recently in the Girls series the Lena Dunham character decides to become a single mother with a short low-IQ surfer Pakistani. The mere idea that a wealthy Jewish girl would ever entertain this is ridiculous - that is a 1 in a million case, but being touted as progressive and no big deal.

I have had some girls ask me to come inside, but declined this since a long time already. Especially when you bang them in a 5-star hotel, are relatively good-looking and smart, then women past 25 don't really mind being knocked up by such a man. But you gotta earn that kind of injection on my side first. I am not as dumb as my 19-22yo counterpart.

Post: #14

Yes, I have done it and would recommend it.

I won't get into specifics but they were both long term relationships. Never married. The mothers (two separate) and I get along good and are on friendly terms.

Is it as good as the solid traditional foundation marriage provides? No, but it's the next best thing. And I have never had any interest in getting married due to the risk/reward it provides males in today's society.

IF you do decide this is the road you want to go down, just be sure to pay child support and BE in your child's life.

Post: #15

(03-29-2017 12:46 PM)[email protected] Wrote:  Yes, I have done it and would recommend it.

I won't get into specifics but they were both long term relationships. Never married. The mothers (two separate) and I get along good and are on friendly terms.

Is it as good as the solid traditional foundation marriage provides? No, but it's the next best thing. And I have never had any interest in getting married due to the risk/reward it provides males in today's society.

IF you do decide this is the road you want to go down, just be sure to pay child support and BE in your child's life.

It is a form of Dark Side procreation that is not while not ideal is not as bad as it may sound:

Post: #16

(03-29-2017 01:12 PM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

(03-29-2017 12:46 PM)[email protected] Wrote:  Yes, I have done it and would recommend it.

I won't get into specifics but they were both long term relationships. Never married. The mothers (two separate) and I get along good and are on friendly terms.

Is it as good as the solid traditional foundation marriage provides? No, but it's the next best thing. And I have never had any interest in getting married due to the risk/reward it provides males in today's society.

IF you do decide this is the road you want to go down, just be sure to pay child support and BE in your child's life.

It is a form of Dark Side procreation that is not while not ideal is not as bad as it may sound:

If you only KNEW the power of the dark side...

Wait. Wrong thread.

Post: #17

When I decide to have kids, it seems prudent to do so outside of marriage. Removes the incentive to leave me for cash and prizes, child support is a lot less expensive then alimony.

Post: #18

If she could not find me and suck money from me in my home country, yes.

Post: #19

(03-30-2017 12:28 PM)godfather dust Wrote:  When I decide to have kids, it seems prudent to do so outside of marriage. Removes the incentive to leave me for cash and prizes, child support is a lot less expensive then alimony.

What state/country do you live in? In California it's mostly the other way around unless you are extremely wealthy.

Post: #20

OP:

Like you I have a strong desire to have children, but I think I've come to a realization that a plan like this is doomed for failure. The act of having children outside marriage is abnormal (obviously the scale depends on the culture/country) so to find someone that's OK with this type of situation is most likely going to lead you towards a girl that has poor impulse control, has a lower degree of education, etc... obviously, there's going to be exceptions, but it's most likely going to end with the mom not being a high quality woman. I'd tend to think that a woman who had attributes that made her a qualified mother would want a traditional marriage or she'd walk.

And be honest with yourself: you think you're going to stick around for the tough times if you can peace out whenever you'd like, free from any legal responsibilities? E.g. She gains 50 lbs, the kid gets diagnosed with autism, her parents are screaming at you because they need money to build a new wing on their house because their neighbors did, etc... Shit, even something as trivial as you just get tired of being a family man. In theory, I know it'd be wrong to bail and men should hold strong for their families, but in practice, I'm not sure if I wouldn't just bone out. That's a shitty thing to do to a kid, there's already enough abandoned children in the world as it is.

If you want to make a difference and mentor some kids, help out at a boys and girls club or foster/adopt some kids and hope you can make a difference in their lives. The alternative you suggest - and that I've pondered over a lot - is too selfish and most likely destructive.

Post: #21

A Colombian girl I've dated off and on for about three years straight up told me that she wants to have a baby with me. I've thought about it before and its a legit option, I usually spend about 4-5 months down there each year anyway so why not have a niño or two running around? Its fairly cheap to live there, a guy could probably have a family down there for $1500-2000/month and live in relative comfort and not have to worry about divorce or child support. A lot of my coworkers spend weeks and months away from their families every year, for some people it's completely normal, so why not do it somewhere cheaper where you don't have to worry about divorce rape?

Post: #22

Say things go wrong and you had to split, cut all ties; is there really no risk if the girl goes walking into an American (or whatever western country your from) embassy and crying to them about how you knocked her up and left her?

Post: #23

For all those men who consider doing this while not being in the lives of the children or not contributing to the upkeep:

I met some of those Alpha men, who spread the seed without caring for the kids. This is something that is truly terrible both for the children as well as the "karma" for the father. Usually lingering regret or various psychological problems of the children remain.

If you do this, then it is better to be in the lives of the kids and best have plenty of cash for support. That way you can have a sane relationship. Also you have to pick a mother-material woman who is marriage worthy, otherwise she can make hell for the life of your progeny.

Of course you can impregnate 3rd world pussy and have your son then live on in squalor, but that is Dark Dark Triad and no reason to be proud of.

Post: #24

Are you african american? Or do you just wish to create children that won't be raised with a solid family unit and go on to be criminals and absent fathers themselves?

Post: #25

(04-02-2017 02:33 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  Of course you can impregnate 3rd world pussy and have your son then live on in squalor, but that is Dark Dark Triad and no reason to be proud of.

If you cooperate in helping the kid get a Consular Report of Birth Abroad, though, then he can be recognized as a naturalized U.S. citizen, and move to the U.S. rather than being stuck overseas. The only problem with that idea is that a lot of the foreign mothers will not want to cooperate, because they don't want their kid to leave them.