Post: #26

Uber is putting a huge amount of money into developing self-driving cars in order to get rid of their employees once and for all.

Fun fact: machine learning networks (like those in say, a self-driving car) are vulnerable to adversarial inputs. These are images reverse-engineered from the network (even as a black box) that look like meaningless static to a human but the classifier thinks they're specific objects with high confidence. This raises the possibility that in a future with lot of self-driving cars, someone could slap a bumper sticker on your car and it would be the equivalent of that cheat code in Grand Theft Auto that makes all the cars try to ram you.

Here's an example printing out hipster glasses that make you look like a celebrity to a computer.

Post: #27

Where I am, TAXIS:

- are dirty, in poor condition, no working seat belts
- driver may claim not to have change
- take long/congested routes to jack up the fare or out of ignorance
- blast trashy music on the radio
- turn down rides if you're not going their direction
- drive UNSAFELY/AGGRESSIVELY (a show-stopper for me)
- low but non-zero risk of being robbed or worse by driver
- driver looks/acts like they're from the criminal class
- meter may be rigged to overcharge you
- can't be found everywhere without calling a dispatcher, unknown wait time

UBER is the opposite of all of these things and much more. Although short trips of 5 kilometers cost 50% more by Uber, longer trips may be cheaper by Uber.

I can see why Uber is a raw deal for drivers. Let that motivate them to better themselves, get some skills and seek out better opportunities.

Post: #28

If drivers are losing money driving for Uber yet continue to do so they are idiots.

This guy did the math, KNOWS he is losing money, and continues to drive for Uber. He is even more of an idiot.

Post: #29

(03-02-2017 01:04 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 12:54 PM)Phoenix Wrote:  You really should try Uber, Quintus. It's fantastic.

They may very well be fantastic when it comes to price and convenience, at least for now. But for me that's just my point: that's how the US consumer has gotten seduced and conned for the past 30 years.

Uber built their empire on 2 things - First, having sufficient cash reserves to shake up existing monopolies when entering the market through overpaying drivers and undercharging customers.

Second, and the reason they can keep going, is that they are better than regular taxis. Not just competing on price and convenience, but also on the quality of the service provided.

No more dispatchers lying to customers about the car being "5 minutes away" or "just around the corner", you can see the driver's details, what car they're driving, and exactly where they are in relation to you.

"I'd hate myself if I had that kind of attitude, if I were that weak." - Arnold

Post: #30

(03-02-2017 01:04 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 12:54 PM)Phoenix Wrote:  You really should try Uber, Quintus. It's fantastic.

They may very well be fantastic when it comes to price and convenience, at least for now. But for me that's just my point: that's how the US consumer has gotten seduced and conned for the past 30 years.

The plutocrats dangle out the short-term gain for you, the consumer. "Look at how much you'll save!"

But the consumer never thinks about the long-term costs. And there always are costs to things. That's how the elites conned us into giving up our privacy: they offered "convenience" as an opiate.

See also: the almost-complete erasure of the lower classes from the music industry due to illegal downloading, and the accelerating gatekeeping of 'anti-narrative' content via services like Youtube, meaning the future is going to be largely the idle upper middle class dilettante children of leftist parents being resoundingly-mediocre.





I've noticed many guitar shops have far more 'craft' guitars than 'brand' guitars now. The low end of the market is collapsing.

Post: #31

(03-02-2017 02:36 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  See also: the almost-complete erasure of the lower classes from the music industry due to illegal downloading, and the accelerating gatekeeping of 'anti-narrative' content via services like Youtube, meaning the future is going to be largely the idle upper middle class dilettante children of leftist parents being resoundingly-mediocre.

A semi-ironic lament from a mid popularity comedian on this subject (From 4:45 to 7:30):

Post: #32

(03-02-2017 12:31 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  For rides, I don't see regular cabs as overpriced. Maybe that's the difference.

That's true in a lot of countries, in others the cost of taxis are absurd.

Just getting in a taxi in Stockholm or Basel will cost you $5-$6 then it's $2-$3 pr. kilometer, at normal rates, at nighttime in the weekends add 100% on top of that. Observe my fury of sitting at a red light and watching my fare go up $2 without the cab moving at all.

I've calculated these things and the hourly rate to ride a taxi in many European countries is about $100.

Think about that. That's after tax, which means you have to earn about $150 before tax, average tax rate, to ride one hour in a taxi.

The surgeon has to work 2 hours to swap for 1 hour taxi. The average office worker might have to work 3-4 hours to swap one taxi hour.

Is that fair?

Uber drivers are also far more polite and they don't pay tax off their earnings anyway, I've asked a lot of them, they have foreign bank accounts.

Post: #33

^ Taxi drivers, in the US, are weird, impolite, and dishonest. Uber takes that all away, bringing happier drivers with accountability.

Post: #34

(03-02-2017 02:36 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  I've noticed many guitar shops have far more 'craft' guitars than 'brand' guitars now. The low end of the market is collapsing.

You're complaining about higher quality, better sounding guitars made by smaller artisans and shops?

I thought big business was bad . . .

Post: #35

(03-02-2017 01:10 PM)Veloce Wrote:  I drove for Uber for a few months until they slashed rates and I calculated that my net profit was zero. After gas, insurance, maintenance, depreciation...most Uber drivers don't factor this in but at the end of the day I'd say Uber drivers make less than minimum wage. I jumped on board a couple months after Uber came to Vegas and I could clear $300 on weekends...not including cash tips and kickbacks from strip clubs. Besides, it was fun. I liked playing chauffeur and meeting all these visitors and hearing some crazy stories.

After the rate cuts, the quality of Uber drivers took a major nosedive. These really are bottom dwellers, and I RARELY use ridesharing anymore. I've just had too many nitwits that don't know their way around town, or have fucked up rides to the airport. Not worth my time. On top of it, you've got a huge amount of immigrants that drive cars that barely meet Uber's standards...how some of these drivers are able to keep a 4+ star rating is beyond me, but it leads me to believe that Uber's customers have dropped in quality as well.

I understand this driver feels like he had the rug pulled from underneath him. Most people have the expectation that longevity with a company is rewarded with increased wages, but this isn't always the case. I've got older dishwashers that feel entitled to a few dollars more per hour simply because they've been there for 10 years. The cold, harsh reality is they don't deserve shit, because they're pricing themselves out of their position, when I could hire someone younger and more energetic than them for less.

The way it works in my book, and in my experience, is if you want more, do more. If that means you have to break some rules or hustle a little bit, so be it. Being nice and playing by the rules doesn't get you shit in life. If I was still driving for Uber, I'd be dealing coke and working on maximizing kickbacks. Not suggesting everyone break the law or deal drugs, but being a true, old school cabbie means that you knew how to get anything your passengers wanted. They want a handjob from some Cambodian girl? You got just the spot, and after you drop off your passenger you get a nice kickback from Mama-san. Maybe you have one Italian restaurant in particular that you recommend to all your passengers, so that restaurant either feeds you for free or kicks you back a percentage of the business you bring them.

My buddy here was making $1000 per week for driving around a stripper. He was pretty much on call 24/7 but she kept a regular schedule and in his off time he was doing other side jobs. They all started with fares he picked up on Uber. But that's the difference. He's a hustler, and the guy in this video isn't. Instead of bitching to the CEO like a bitch, he should be making contacts with his passengers and sniffing out if any of them need any extra services. He is driving for Uber Black after all, most of his passengers should be pretty well-off. Free market capitalism to me means that if you want more, do more.

cedonulli has some good stories on his blog about buying an old limo for $500 (looked like a tank) and chaufeuring strippers from SLC to some mining town a few hours a way every weekend for a cut of their tips. There are ways to make money if you use your head.

Post: #36

My 2cents.......... Everybody is bashing uber drivers on this thread without hearing their side of the story. I am driving Uber for last 6 months now. Next week is my last week driving with Uber.

To give you guys perspective from drivers side; Uber business model is based on deception and fear. I will explain these 2 factors briefly:

Deception; Uber enters a new market and hire drivers silently ignoring local laws. When Uber has sufficient drivers, they launch their service in the new market. Uber lures drivers with big money and encourage drivers to take car loans or car leases so they can drive for Uber without telling real costs, taxes and risks involved. In the start, every new market has good rates for drivers and drivers make good money. When words spread around that Uber drivers are making good money, more people join. Eventually when Uber drops rates by suggesting that dropped rates will bring more riders so business will increase(In Melbourne, Uber rates were $1.70/km. Now it's only $1/km). That's true that business will increase by lowering rates but only for Uber. Uber drivers will make less with reduced rates with more wear and tear on their cars and have to work 30-50% more to make same money as they used to make. As I stated, I am driving more than 6 months now and I can say with authority that Uber drivers are at best making $15/hr in Australia and by working unsocial hours. When new driver sign up with Uber and he makes $1000-1200 by working 35-40 hours, he feels good but what he initially forget that he has to pay fuel, tolls, car maintenance, GST and income tax and any car loan (and car depreciation cost also). In Australia, it's a requirement to lodge GST every 3 months. So once the tax times come and new driver lodges his tax; at that time he realizes that he been fooled by Uber and he is working less than minimum wage. So after lodging couple of GST with the Taxman, a normal Uber drivers plans to exit from Uber.

Many of you will ask So how Uber deceiving Drivers? When new driver signup with Uber, Uber never tell him his Tax obligations, his car running costs and any risk associated. Driver has to find himself all these things and once they find out, they leave the Uber system. This is the reason, when you ask your Uber driver "how long you been driving"? Normal answer will be from 1 week to 5 months.

Fear: Uber controls its drivers by fear of rating, by fear of deactivation from the system. Uber will send nasty messages/emails even on slightest complain from the rider without hearing drivers side. Their are instances where drivers account have been deactivated on complaint from riders without any investigations.

After lodging my 1st GST with taxman and then realizing what my actual costs are and how much I am making, it's enough to open my eyes. I planned my exit immediately. But I couldn't exit immediately as I had to pay rent, food and other bills. Slowly and slowly I reduced my working hours and now this is my 2nd last week with Uber as I have better opportunity infront of me. But I know not many people are not brave enough or lucky enough to break Uber cycle once they sucked in the uber system with car loans, no job prospects or simply because of their laziness.

Post: #37

(03-03-2017 07:47 AM)scrambled Wrote:  ^ Taxi drivers, in the US, are weird, impolite, and dishonest. Uber takes that all away, bringing happier drivers with accountability.

I disagree with your statement. Uber drivers are same people who are driving Taxis. In the start, they are polite with you because you have to rate them at the end of trip. They know they will be poorly rated for being a dickhead. But with the passage of time when novelty of being a Uber driver wear off and driver no longer fear for deactivation, they will turn into same taxi like person.

I am driving upward of 6 months now with my last 2 weeks with Uber and I don't have any fear of deactivation from Uber. From last couple of months, I have refused to take any unprofitable rides Uber send me, have thrown passengers out of my car more than 3 times for being drunk, abusive and eating in my car, refusing to allow them to change radio stations. Now I have simple rule: "My Car; my rules. Don't like it? Leave"

Have you ever wondered why Uber needs always new drivers? Where old drivers are going? From now on, ask your Uber driver how long they been driving. New drivers will be nice and polite, old drivers will be grumpy and will not give a fuck because they know rating system is bullshit

Post: #38

i agree with what QC said, I just accept Uber as a fact of life and give the drivers a tip.

One thing I know, the Uber line about them being "independent contractors" under US tax law is bullshit. It gets Uber out of paying the employer's contribution to Social Security. The "independent" contractor pays more in self-employment tax.

The test for that was supposed to be whether the worker had the freedom to set the terms, conditions and method of their work. I don't see that - Uber drivers they are completely controlled by the Uber app. The only thing they can control are their hours.

Post: #39

(03-02-2017 03:22 AM)mhnd Wrote:  The universal struggle of facilitating a threesome with two women approaching their 40s - enduring commentary about astrology.

What made you think they are approaching their 40s? The fact they talked about astrology, or something else? Is astrology out of favor among young girls? Honest question.

Post: #40

Uber is a Wall Street-fed soon-to-be global monopoly. All the super-alphas here who play the tough entrepreneur have no bloody idea of what has been going on since 2008. Wealth is quickly concentrating on very few hands at levels never seen before. None of these successful companies that are often put as example (Uber, Amazon, Twitter, even Facebook for many years) have ever made any profit at all. Always maintained by "rounds of investment" while destroying the existing businesses who cannot access those billions. Goldman Sachs is laughing at your faces.

And no, I am not defending taxis. Uber just took advantage of a technology paradigm change (smartphones) + WS money and disrupted a taxi industry who was not willing to change.

Post: #41

(03-04-2017 03:06 AM)McCarthy Wrote:  Uber is a Wall Street-fed soon-to-be global monopoly. None of these successful companies that are often put as example (Uber, Amazon, Twitter, even Facebook for many years) have ever made any profit at all. Always maintained by "rounds of investment" while destroying the existing businesses who cannot access those billions. Goldman Sachs is laughing at your faces.

People were saying the same things about Sprint. A junk bond funded company (a Milken deal if I recall) that will never make a profit and just upsets the market owned by AT&T (the baby bells at that point). Instead, everyone saved money, service was improved and jobs were created. And AT&T was forced to actually innovate, something they hadn't done in a decade. To oppose progress makes you sound morally offended at someone who made a better mousetrap.

(03-04-2017 03:06 AM)McCarthy Wrote:  All the super-alphas here who play the tough entrepreneur have no bloody idea of what has been going on since 2008. Wealth is quickly concentrating on very few hands at levels never seen before.

The only time I have a problem with people making massive profits is when it's cronyism. And you're right, that was rampant throughout Obama's presidency. If Goldman is able to make a fortune without government handouts, then they should be applauded, not vilified.

(03-04-2017 03:06 AM)McCarthy Wrote:  None of these successful companies that are often put as example (Uber, Amazon, Twitter, even Facebook for many years) have ever made any profit at all.

Years ago, people were yammering on about how Amazon will never make a profit. They made $749 million last quarter alone, up 55% from the previous year.

If you're envious of these companies, invest in them and join the profit. A $1000 invested in Amazon at the IPO would be worth almost $240k today.

Post: #42

I think the general consensus I've heard from people is that Uber is the best part time job in the world, but probably the worst full time job. If you have a full time job and steady income, driving for uber part time seems wonderful: making extra money, meeting girls/business contacts etc. you set your own hours and work when you feel like because you truly don't need the money.

When I first started using uber it seemed I ran into a lot more of these part time drivers, people with full time jobs New to the city who wanted to meet new people. Now it's almost completely full time drivers, foreigners, ex taxi drivers etc. the city I live in imposed strict rules for drivers so now it's too much of a hassle for the part time guys to sign up.

I view uber similar to when I was waiting tables. I used to hate waiting tables full time and depending on the uncertainty of the tips to pay my bills. But when I got a full time office job and waited tables only on the weekends, it became a great and fun job where I could meet people/girls and make extra money on the side. Once you don't care about the money, the stress and frustration of a job goes away.

Post: #43

(03-04-2017 03:06 AM)McCarthy Wrote:  Uber is a Wall Street-fed soon-to-be global monopoly. All the super-alphas here who play the tough entrepreneur have no bloody idea of what has been going on since 2008. Wealth is quickly concentrating on very few hands at levels never seen before. None of these successful companies that are often put as example (Uber, Amazon, Twitter, even Facebook for many years) have ever made any profit at all. Always maintained by "rounds of investment" while destroying the existing businesses who cannot access those billions. Goldman Sachs is laughing at your faces.

And no, I am not defending taxis. Uber just took advantage of a technology paradigm change (smartphones) + WS money and disrupted a taxi industry who was not willing to change.

True and that's why we have the Trumpian movements despite it being only temporary until our morality and worldview gets in tune with the new high tech world. We are sort of like serf farmers moving to industrialized London and being taken advantage off. We'll figure it out and it will be very different from anything we know now.

I figure we will see a re-emergence of the arts and philosophy which will severely shame the globetrotting elites. I see the future as clamping down hard on multinational elites, you can keep your money, but you better stick to your people and share the wealth. The Goldman Sachs utopia of a global elite pilfering every nickel and dime through tech monopolies and then living in gated communities in London, Paris, New York, no I don't buy it, these elites who insist on "global man" and have no loyalty will become pariahs, loathed and hated like you won't believe it.

In the long run, we have no idea what will happen, remember Uber is just the first, there will be others just like them.

Post: #44

Taxi medallions and lisence and fees are the biggest reason Taxi's cost what they do. The Taxi system needed a shake up as it turned into endebted slavery where drivers were locked into a price number and would have to drive each day until they hit the break even point. This could mean 20hrs in the road if it was a really slow day.

Uber is a disruption but Taxi companies should of seen it coming a mile away. This is what hapems with monopolies I guess but no reason these Taxis could not use phones to come get drivers or have a autopsy mentioned thing set up either. The service aspect could of taken time as most people know cabbies are dirty assholes.

Uber has taken drawbacks as well big time. You have to drive in a big metro to have the density of users for steady business. You have to strategically buy a cheapo car that just meets the requirements so you can then run it into the ground and pencil it as a loss. You don't use your own car and hen render it worthless by the milage, that isn't smart, but many people do it. You then have to pick busy tomes to drive such as rush hour, or late nights after events or the bars. You have to learn the city well to know where missing links are fr transportation and fill it. All these things require planning and strategy and the Uber drivers who do the planning make good side mone while the rest just make extra cash or some who burn away money and time. It isn't for everyone.

Overall though this new predatory economy push isn't the best way that we can go about things. The cooperation qas set up as a risk taking entity so that workers did not have that blade hangong over their head at work and they would be more productive. But now the risk is on the workers but they are not true self-proprietors who will see all income from their work and can then price in the risk or overhead. Predatory workers don't get that option 's they as still subject to the riles the boss puts out its the worst of being a company whore and self-proprietor all rolled into one!

In the end it's a choice. I've been using Uber since day one here and I like the service ... at times. It is useful but I still take cabs every now and then as well.

Post: #45

(03-04-2017 05:06 AM)Captainstabbin Wrote:  People were saying the same things about Sprint. A junk bond funded company (a Milken deal if I recall) that will never make a profit and just upsets the market owned by AT&T (the baby bells at that point). Instead, everyone saved money, service was improved and jobs were created. And AT&T was forced to actually innovate, something they hadn't done in a decade. To oppose progress makes you sound morally offended at someone who made a better mousetrap.

The only time I have a problem with people making massive profits is when it's cronyism. And you're right, that was rampant throughout Obama's presidency. If Goldman is able to make a fortune without government handouts, then they should be applauded, not vilified.

Years ago, people were yammering on about how Amazon will never make a profit. They made $749 million last quarter alone, up 55% from the previous year.

If you're envious of these companies, invest in them and join the profit. A $1000 invested in Amazon at the IPO would be worth almost $240k today.

AT&T has been always subject to antitrust regulations, something that the companies I mentioned have never really been that much. Check the AT&T attempt to purchase Tmobile. No, I am not "morally offended". I don't even know what that could mean in this situation.

Goldman is the perfect example of cronyism and political manipulation.

Yes, now that competitors supply chains have been destroyed due to fiscal and price dumping, Amazon has finally made profits after 15 years!

No, I'm not envious of these companies and I am not buying stock, I am doing well enough. Thanks for suggesting, though.

Post: #46

Yeah man tbanks for the stock tip. I think I will do my bit for the decline of society but I guess it's worth it for the chance to make a few bob.

Post: #47

(03-02-2017 09:52 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  I don't know for other countries, but Croatian taxi drivers are generally scum who live from ripping off tourists and will easily charge you $20 for a 10-minute 4-km ride over a small town. I will shed no tears for Uber forcing them to get off their fat chain-smoking asses in the city centre and do some honest work for a change.

Here, here! The drivers complaining are the people that used to constantly rip us off before Uber when we had to use taxis. Now they want us to feel sorry for them?! No one's forcing them to drive for Uber. If they don't like the pay they can do something else.

(03-04-2017 12:50 AM)Alick Wrote:  I disagree with your statement. Uber drivers are same people who are driving Taxis. In the start, they are polite with you because you have to rate them at the end of trip. They know they will be poorly rated for being a dickhead. But with the passage of time when novelty of being a Uber driver wear off and driver no longer fear for deactivation, they will turn into same taxi like person.

Works for me. Uber drivers are polite and provide good customer service. When they stop providing good customer service Uber kicks them off the platform and finds someone else. Who cares if there's high turnover. It's not like being an experienced uber driver provides any extra value. As another poster pointed out providing transportation has almost zero barriers to entry. If you don't think you're being paid what you're worth as a driver then you can work for lyft, drive a taxi, or run your own transportation business. The reason wages of drivers are so low isn't because Uber is screwing them. It's because there are a large amount of people willing to provide unskilled labor relative to demand.

Post: #48

^ sadly for people who have a gripe, that's the truth

there's nothing special about driving a car, everyone can do it, and nearly everyone can do it extremely well when the only desire for the most part is going A to B

Post: #49

(03-05-2017 06:27 PM)Kid Twist Wrote:  ^ sadly for people who have a gripe, that's the truth

there's nothing special about driving a car, everyone can do it, and nearly everyone can do it extremely well when the only desire for the most part is going A to B

It's sort of the McJob debate.

Working in fast food is not a career. It's a job for students and those who need a job for some work experience. It's not a job to plan 20 years ahead in. Even so, I am sure you can earn some extra money in fast food by doing overtime and taking on extra responsibility.

Same with driving a cab. Not a career choice unless you work it. There was a brief period of time in the 50s when you could work anything and live on it, but that was due to the war and American goods exploding and just as important, women stayed at home.

I maintain people should be able to live decent on 40-50 hours of honest work pr. week, but consider that isn't a question of higher pay but of priorities. We have all this artificial demand from women who account for 70-80% of consumer spending with money they make in no small part from public play-jobs and other soft positions in companies. Such as having a position for women who get offended, so we need a woman to deal with it. Likewise, consider all the singles who need 2 appartments, not one, consider all the bs men spend on drinking and dressing up for 20 years of extended adolescence.

The crux of all this is cultural, not economic. Don't fight for higher wages, fight for higher morals. Go for the troath for those disgusting hedonist elites flashing their wealth on Instagram, give the rich arabs in London a smackdown, force these rich elites to be part of their own people.

That is where you understand that nationalism and traditionalism, culturally, morally, ethically, is the only short term solution to the insane wealth disparity. We have to appeal to blood. No other will do. That is also why globalism and multiculturalism and multiracialsm is what the elites desire. Once there are no nations and no individual people with thousand year shared history, then what argument will you use?

Post: #50

(03-02-2017 10:04 AM)VincentVinturi Wrote:  Are you familiar with the way capitalism works?

It's based on this thing called competition and this idea that shit changes all the time and nobody owes you anything so you better stay on your toes and get after it by selling jewelry or whatever it takes, or you'll wind up a pissed off Uber driver trying to throw his problems on other people.

Has anyone told Microsoft?