Post: #1

So this is a bit of an odd post, but I swear I'm not trolling.

So my first LTR of my life, which happened in my early 20's, lasted for a few years. It wasn't immediately apparent, partly because of how hot she was, but I slowly realized she was manipulative, and always found a way to shift the blame off of herself and onto me, even if deep down I knew she was wrong. Yeah, sure, most women have his kind of behavior, but she was fucking good at it. She wouldn't actively try to manipulate me to do things I didn't want, or anything evil like that, but any time I got mad at her or tried to call her out on something this crazy manipulative behavior would come up.

Whenever this would happen, it would do weird things to my hormones, because I would have mixed feelings about certain things. After the fight was over, and the hormones settled down, I would weirdly feel more strongly for her than before! Consciously I hated the behavior, but there was no denying that I developed strong feelings that I couldn't ignore.

After a while, we broke up for unrelated issues which aren't really relevant (cultural, religious, and family issues essentially, as she was foreign and a marriage probably would not have worked).

Since then, unless if a woman can bring out this weird mix of hormones in me, which usually happens with manipulative behavior, I simply will not develop feelings for the girl, even if nothing is wrong with her and she is hot. Its like I have this inner craving for fights and drama, which I know isn't healthy.

Ideally, I would like at some point to find a wife and have kids, as I am in my low 30s now. I still think I have a large window, as I would consider putting off marriage until 45. That said, I feel this is an issue I need to fix in the meantime.

Has anyone experienced anything like this? How can I "fix" myself, or is this just normal? Since we broke up, I've banged about 60ish girls, so I don't think banging more girls will get this out my system, I think I need an inner fix.

Post: #2

there are only just a few that are?

Post: #3

Only just a few who are skilled enough to give me that mix of emotions. Most women aren't nearly as manipulative as they think they are.

Post: #4

(02-15-2017 08:30 PM)Repo Wrote:  Only just a few who are skilled enough to give me that mix of emotions. Most women aren't nearly as manipulative as they think they are.

You would want to think so, but I doubt they even know they are doing it.

Post: #5

not enough info

what did she do that was manipulative?

What culture?

Why do you say it was your problem, feelings just for her or other manipulators?

Post: #6

Her culture and stuff isn't really important, since she was just one out of several examples, all of which come from varying degree of backgrounds.

Yes, I would say it is my problem because I have a tendency to catch feelings for women with this type of behavior. Manipulative things would be maybe if she got snarky with me and I would call her out on it, she would try to turn it around on me when she clearly acted out first. Or sometimes if we got in a fight over a perceived slight, make it seem like my point didn't even make sense and she was clearly in the right. Maybe mild gaslighting, refusing to remember something I know I clearly said and reiterated. In fact, I think the gaslighting was probably the worst tendency. When a women "forgets" something you said and insist you never said it. That gets a huge rise out of me.

Post: #7

(02-15-2017 10:02 PM)Repo Wrote:  Her culture and stuff isn't really important, since she was just one out of several examples, all of which come from varying degree of backgrounds.

Yes, I would say it is my problem because I have a tendency to catch feelings for women with this type of behavior. Manipulative things would be maybe if she got snarky with me and I would call her out on it, she would try to turn it around on me when she clearly acted out first. Or sometimes if we got in a fight over a perceived slight, make it seem like my point didn't even make sense and she was clearly in the right. Maybe mild gaslighting, refusing to remember something I know I clearly said and reiterated. In fact, I think the gaslighting was probably the worst tendency. When a women "forgets" something you said and insist you never said it. That gets a huge rise out of me.

This is entirely about you and how you are reacting to women.

Post: #8

(02-15-2017 08:09 PM)Repo Wrote:  Its like I have this inner craving for fights and drama, which I know isn't healthy.

That's your answer right there. And it's actually more common than you think.

Men can crave drama just as much, if not more, than women. Hell in my LTR Im the dramatic one and she's the stable (if such a thing can be said for a woman)

This craving for drama stems partly from a secret desire to be dominated by woman, emotionally. Which is a form of the Oedipus complex. Did you happen to have a passionate and or dramatic/manipulative mother? Add in an indifferent, weak father to the mix.

The crave for drama is sometimes stronger than the thrill of the hunt, and sometimes get guys in deep trouble. Most of the time is because they know the girl is bad business and that gives them all the more reason to plunge head first into the swamp.

This can be a boon if used right, because it allows you to have the emotional predisposition of a girl. I.e you can be cold and calculating with hot girls who you dont know well, which makes them like you more. Reversely sometimes you need to intentionally inject drama into an otherwise steady LTR.

The important thing is to know where to stop. You can tempt the drama chase, but you need to know exactly at what point it burns you and GTFO.

As for a cure I dont know if it exists. Things like this are ground into your psyche.

Post: #9

Yes to the weak indifferent dad, not so much the mother you described. But there were other people in my early life who were dramatic and manipulative. Overall I think your analysis is spot on, its alot to reflect on. Thanks

Post: #10

This is not a change you can undergo overnight.

The reason you are attracted to "manipulative" chicks isn't anything to special or unique - most men are. Crazy girls offer up tumultuous emotional roller coaster type relationships. There are extreme highs and extreme lows that keeps you incredibly emotionally engaged. Honestly the best and most effective way to evolve from this is to date enough of them and get burned enough that you stop and transcend to a higher level of relationship awareness. Thats part of growing up and learning what to look for and what to look out for in women.

I used to be the same way. The best relationships I can remember were the ones where the girl was a psycho and made me hurt bad but also made me love hard. As I've gotten older and burnt our from that shit I've learned to be smarter and more selective with my emotional investment. I look for things early on with a girl I meet and simply keep myself at arms length if she has a lot of red flags. You need to condition yourself to not get close too women that display unsavory behavior.

What worked for me aside from just having a history of shitty experiences was actively avoiding relationships. I took a year or two and just banged girls NSA and reprogrammed myself to be sort of anti-relationship. After having done that I feel I'm in a better place now to be more selective with my feelings if that makes sense.

Post: #11

All women are manipulative.

Some are better at hiding it than others.

The only way to dominate a manipulative woman is to be smarter than her.

Post: #12

(02-15-2017 08:09 PM)Repo Wrote:  Since then, unless if a woman can bring out this weird mix of hormones in me, which usually happens with manipulative behavior, I simply will not develop feelings for the girl, even if nothing is wrong with her and she is hot. Its like I have this inner craving for fights and drama, which I know isn't healthy.

Ideally, I would like at some point to find a wife and have kids, as I am in my low 30s now. I still think I have a large window, as I would consider putting off marriage until 45. That said, I feel this is an issue I need to fix in the meantime.

Has anyone experienced anything like this? How can I "fix" myself, or is this just normal? Since we broke up, I've banged about 60ish girls, so I don't think banging more girls will get this out my system, I think I need an inner fix.

It's good to know yourself, and I think you're correct - it's not healthy. Certainly not for a man who's trying to develop an amenable personality to have a successful LTR/marriage with kids in the picture.

This post resonated with me because I think my own father had similar issues to the ones you describe. A little weird to say this, but my mother certainly fit the "hot crazy chick" definition when she was younger. Her California girl movie-star looks when she was in her 20s and 30s is probably what I have to thank for being only half-ugly, but her marriage to my father was an absolute high-drama nightmare. They never really physically abused each other, but the arguing and fighting was endless.

And the terrible part is realizing at some point that just about anyone in the family, including your own father, would gladly throw you under the bus in an attempt to please this un-pleasable woman.

It was shameful white-knighting for sure. "Dad, why didn't you leave?" "Because I loved her!"

Or he thought he did. I believe he was just addicted to the drama - he needed it to satisfy something that wasn't there in himself, something he never got from his own parents. And her MO was to seek out these guys like a laser beam, and eat them up.

Mom eventually left Dad when I was in my teens, it was his second failed marriage and her third. The drama didn't end there as it should have of course; they waged a proxy war for years using me as the intermediary. And because I had been raised in a toxic environment I played along like a fool, simply because I had been trained like that and didn't know any better.

And if you're unlucky as I was, at that point your life takes a downward spiral into depression, alcohol and drug abuse, and destructive relationships of your own, one that many don't pull out of. I was lucky, but it took until my early 30s to finally crawl out from under that shadow - and I almost didn't make it.

My parents were in their 60s when they divorced and never remarried. The good news is that Dad actually managed to change, somewhat, once she was finally out of the picture for the most part; like when Theoden wakes up from the spell cast over him in the Lord of the Rings movie. He finally figured out what she was about, and learned to reject her manipulative ways.

Mom never changed. And while lots of people will sign on to deal with a hot drama queen 25 year old, the people who will sign on to deal with a drama queen 75 year old is nobody. Nobody would envy her life at this point.

The drama is giving you something you crave, something you're not getting. A sense of meaning, maybe? We all need that. The only way to fix yourself is the way you "fix" anything when it comes to personal growth - you stop doing the bad thing. Easy to say in words and implementation is the very hard part, but there are no shortcuts. You have to find meaning elsewhere, because in the final calculus there is no meaning to be found where you're looking for it.

Like an alcoholic who learns to stop driving to the liquor store every night on automatic pilot, you learn to resist, to walk, to say "No, I don't accept this behavior, and I'm leaving now" when she starts the drama with you. If she never comes back then so be it, you let the cards fall where they may.

"Normal" relationships will, as you say, feel strange to you. Remember that's the way it should feel if you're trying to change unhealthy behavior to healthy behavior - it's your brain fighting back. It couldn't be any different.

High-drama chicks seem to naturally avoid me these days, and I absolutely love low-drama relationships. I worked hard on developing myself and my own interests that relationship drama has very little attractiveness to me anymore - even optimistically my life is half over at this point and every minute I waste on drama is a minute I don't have to do something I really enjoy. It actually feels good knowing that there are a couple girls in my social circle who I know wanted to hit it, but they were high-drama and started ignoring me once they realized from my personality that they would get nothing from me. Great! Get out, get out.

Post: #13

Thread title is redundant

Post: #14

(02-17-2017 11:48 AM)heavy Wrote:  Thread title is redundant

All water is wet, the question is whether you prefer a sunny day at Laguna Beach or being shoved out of a helicopter into a force 10 gale in the middle of the North Sea.

They're destinations we do have some control over.

Post: #15

(02-17-2017 11:48 AM)heavy Wrote:  Thread title is redundant

Yeah. I was going to say you could cut off the last few words of the title and it would be the same:

"What if you only catch feelings for women?"

Post: #16

Serious lack of follow up on OP part.

"RFV always wants to know WHAT HAPPENED."

Post: #17

Thanks BTF for reminding that this was never followed up with

Post: #18

Drama is just more interesting. Whether you prefer a relationship with a woman that brings drama depends on your type of personality. Some men prefer a steady, sweet, no trouble girl, other men like the roller coaster ride of the drama girl. Personally, I think drama is more interesting.

Post: #19

(11-25-2018 08:49 PM)Off The Reservation Wrote:  Thanks BTF for reminding that this was never followed up with

Should have messaged me! Honestly forgot about this thread.

Not much of a followup, I still get bored with most women regardless of level of attraction and end up cheating on them out of boredom. . . . Or because I can. Anyway, I didnt go back to her and dont really have feelings for her anymore, but I do miss the fun drama filled times with her that haven't been replicated.

Once, I got caught cheating and denying it wasnt even fun. I was just like, nah that earring must have been tracked in from my shoe or something. Then we fucked, I realized shit wouldnt be so bad if she had just walked out, so I broke things off with her the next week.

I think Dalarans response was on point.