Post: #101

(11-08-2015 12:57 PM)Lime Wrote:  I perceive the lack of interest for Fukushima by the Rooshvforum as scandalous. Worrying about mass migration in Europe while the life in their own sea is being destroyed.

http://enenews.com/professors-largest-ma...sing-video

The reason: this forums calls, erroneously, the Fukushima "Whistleblowers" anti-nuclear hippies.

Furthermore, the forum throws, erroneously, environmental activists in the same basket as SJW's.

They might be the same people, I guess it is somewhat an American thing, environmentalists are not necessarily SJW's.

Post: #102

^
This is exactly what I mean. The difference between environmentalists and a rational person who decides to not eat fish from polluted parts is consederable, and you make it not look as such.

Post: #103

(11-08-2015 03:38 PM)Lime Wrote:  ^
This is exactly what I mean. The difference between environmentalists and a rational person who decides to not eat fish from polluted parts of the sea is negligible, according to the forum.

What "polluted part" of what "sea" LOL?

First, the Pacific Ocean is not a "sea". Second, the idea that, for example, there is any detectable excess radiation from Fukushima as far out as the American west coast is sheer lunacy, and testifies to the scientific illiteracy typical of "rational" folk who "fucking love science".

There isn't even detectable excess radiation in the f'ing Pacific Ocean off the coast of Japan. The Japs are sitting around in Tokyo, eating their sushi, grinning, and happy as clams, no pun intended. As well they should be.

Being a very thorough people they actually check every fish caught for radiation, just in case. There is no detectable excess radiation in the vast majority of fish. What does happen very occasionally is that a fish will escape from the sealed container around the reactor itself. Those fish can carry detectable amount of trace excess radiation (which would likely be harmless in any case) and they are discarded. That's it.

Post: #104

(11-08-2015 03:55 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

(11-08-2015 03:38 PM)Lime Wrote:  ^
This is exactly what I mean. The difference between environmentalists and a rational person who decides to not eat fish from polluted parts of the sea is negligible, according to the forum.

What "polluted part" of what "sea" LOL?

First, the Pacific Ocean is not a "sea". Second, the idea that, for example, there is any detectable excess radiation from Fukushima as far out as the American west coast is sheer lunacy, and testifies to the scientific illiteracy typical of "rational" folk who "fucking love science".

There isn't even detectable excess radiation in the f'ing Pacific Ocean off the coast of Japan. The Japs are sitting around in Tokyo, eating their sushi, grinning, and happy as clams, no pun intended. As well they should be.

Being a very thorough people they actually check every fish caught for radiation, just in case. There is no detectable excess radiation in the vast majority of fish. What does happen very occasionally is that a fish will escape from the sealed container around the reactor itself. Those fish can carry detectable amount of trace excess radiation (which would likely be harmless in any case) and they are discarded. That's it.

My original point was that SJW's and environmentalists are not the same but treated as such. I get, from your response, that environmentalists are the worst of the worst of the SJW's.

I have an example of one of those environmentalists, who are the worst of SJW's, according to you:

http://qz.com/417352/thanks-to-vladimir-...-far-east/

Apparently Putin accomplished a lot for the Russian tiger population. SJW? I doubt it.

See what point I want to make? This forum throws biodiversity protectors at one heap with the environmentalists that you mean, and THAT is where it goes wrong in my opinion.

Love for nature transcends being a SJW or not.

Post: #105

Nope. Your original point was that it's "scandalous" that this forum is not preoccupied with the terrifying threat from Fukushima, and is instead concerned with such relative trivia as the migrants currently inundating Europe.

As I said before, your concern is duly noted.

Post: #106

(11-08-2015 12:57 PM)Lime Wrote:  I perceive the lack of interest for Fukushima by the Rooshvforum as scandalous. Worrying about mass migration in Europe while the life in their own sea is being destroyed.

http://enenews.com/professors-largest-ma...sing-video

The reason: this forums calls, erroneously, the Fukushima "Whistleblowers" anti-nuclear hippies.

Furthermore, the forum throws, erroneously, environmental activists in the same basket as SJW's.

They might be the same people, I guess it is somewhat an American thing, environmentalists are not necessarily SJW's.

The dying off of those starfish is due to a virus. 1 single drop of seawater contains about 10 million viruses. Newsflash: viruses mutate and adapt and sometimes wipe out entire species. It's a story that's as old as the Universe itself.

Quote:This forum throws biodiversity protectors at one heap with the environmentalists that you mean

What a title. You think Putin refers to himself as a biodiversity protector? He made a point to protect tigers because they're beautiful creatures that represent strength and are one of nature's great creatures. How many other species have gone extinct in Russia that Putin doesn't give a shit about? Think he cares about some endangered frog living on the edge of a swamp?

I'm all about conservation and there are serious concerns with overfishing and the effects of bottom trawling. It's the work of nitwit alarmist "environmentalists" that take the focus away from where its needed in order to stir up hype and hysteria over non-issues.

Post: #107

@The Lizard of Oz: I never said mass migration is trivial, only relative to West coast USA. Thanks for your input, though.

(11-08-2015 04:12 PM)Veloce Wrote:  The dying off of those starfish is due to a virus. 1 single drop of seawater contains about 10 million viruses. Newsflash: viruses mutate and adapt and sometimes wipe out entire species. It's a story that's as old as the Universe itself.

Quote:This forum throws biodiversity protectors at one heap with the environmentalists that you mean

How many other species have gone extinct in Russia that Putin doesn't give a shit about? Think he cares about some endangered frog living on the edge of a swamp?

I'm all about conservation and there are serious concerns with overfishing and the effects of bottom trawling. It's the work of nitwit alarmist "environmentalists" that take the focus away from where its needed in order to stir up hype and hysteria over non-issues.

The mammoth http://www.ibtimes.com/cloning-possible-...ts-2080265 . But honestly Russia, with it's vast space, doesn't lose as many species as smaller tropical nations do.

But all in all, interesting cultural differences. In Western Europe we see Fukushima more as a conspiracy thing rather than that environmentalists talk about it. We just talk about how MSM don't talk about it.

Post: #108

(11-08-2015 04:18 PM)Lime Wrote:  @The Lizard of Oz: I never said mass migration is trivial, only relative to West coast USA. Thanks for your input, though.

You're welcome.

How is this for a suggestion: you guys in Europe deal with your migrants and we over here will deal with our starfish. Americans love a challenge.

Post: #109

Lime, I'm all for protecting the environment if otherwise it would pose a threat to humans. I'm also concerned about animals especially those that directly or indirectly are needed by humans. But we have to come first. The reason being is that if many different animal species become extinct (like the mammoth) we soon will be able to bring them back. On the other hand, if all humans die off saving the planet for animals...animals will die off anyway by the first large rock that randomly hits the earth. Or the sun will eventually kill them off.

Post: #110

Social Justice and Environmental Conservation are great goods, in the abstract. The problem is that the activists for both of these are dedicated to the idea of government directing every detail of all human activities, in the economic and social realms.

They blame big capitalism for many of the ills in the world as far as pollution and the poor and downtrodden. However, most of these ills are really caused by crony capitalism, which is not due to capitalism, but really is due to socialism.

In the case of Fukushima, I've looked up the real consequences of this accident, and as far as I can tell, the increase in radiation levels in the Pacific and on the West Coast of the US are negligible. The only area seriously affected is the area immediately surrounding the damaged nuclear plant.

Post: #111

Come tomorrow I'ma be all about that radiation

Post: #112

(11-09-2015 01:16 AM)Cr33pin Wrote:  Come tomorrow I'ma be all about that radiation

I just bought some blue crab too.

I'll make sure to turn the lights off to watch it glow in the dark when I eat it.

OP you want a serious environmental disaster? Go to China where the ecological impact of human activity is far worse that radioactive ground water. They even have glowing pork for you to try.

Post: #113

New news is coming out about the (highly underrated) Fukushima disaster.
Link to the article bellow

Time to reconsider that trip to the east coast of Japan.

A containment vessel at the destroyed Fukushima No. 1 power plant has reached off-the-chart radiation levels, reported the Japan Times.
New news is surfacing about this disaster that I think is highly underrated.

The reading of 530 sieverts per hour represents the highest level of radiation the reactor site has seen since three nuclear meltdowns hit the power plant in March 2011 almost six years ago -- and also among the most deadly.

To put the danger to human life into perspective, the 530 sieverts reading is high enough to prove fatal during even brief exposure, compounding the problem of containment for the government and Tokyo Power Electric Company (TEPCO). 4 sieverts would kill one in two people, and 1 seivert could lead to hair loss and infertility, the Japan Times noted, citing the National Institute of Radiological Sciences.

Experts believe that escaped melted fuel can account for the spiked reading.

The Fukushima 1 Nuclear Power Plant suffered a series of meltdowns and explosions after Tsunami-triggered earthquakes crippled Japan's coast. The cleanup is expected to take decades.

Post: #114

So how close exactly were you planning on going in the general area of the reactor?

Post: #115

(02-04-2017 09:47 PM)Cr33pin Wrote:  Time to reconsider that trip to the east coast of Japan.

A containment vessel at the destroyed Fukushima No. 1 power plant has reached off-the-chart radiation levels, reported the Japan Times.
New news is surfacing about this disaster that I think is highly underrated.
[...]
The Fukushima 1 Nuclear Power Plant suffered a series of meltdowns and explosions after Tsunami-triggered earthquakes crippled Japan's coast. The cleanup is expected to take decades.

Might be a good time to invest...



Think about how happy your grand-grand-grand-grand-grand kids will be...

Post: #116

The radiation level in question is in a containment chamber, not leaking out into the open, and apparently it's a place that hadn't even been measured before. So without baseline data, how can they claim radiation levels are rising? What would even cause radiation levels to rise within the chamber? Magic?

Sounds like just more of the same anti-nuclear alarmism.

On another note, I find it very irritating that the whole reason it's even possible for these sorts of fucking stupid, negligent accidents to happen is because alarmism after Three Mile Island and Chernobyl nearly halted the development of nuclear power technology. Commercial reactors in use today are basically the same design from 30+ years ago. Nuclear reactors are far from a mature technology, and developing nuclear power is the only road to something better. Instead we waste enormous amounts of time and money wanking around with bullshit "renewable" bird cuisinarts and lizard broilers that can't replace coal/NG plants anyway. It's maddening.

No, radiation levels at Fukushima Daiichi are not rising

Some pictures and whatnot at the link.

Quote:— Yes, TEPCO has measured very high radiation inside Daichi Unit 2.

— No, it does’t mean radiation levels there are rising.

In response to visual investigation results and high radiation measurements recently taken by TEPCO inside Fukushima Daiichi Unit 2, many news outlets have published stories with headlines like “Fukushima nuclear reactor radiation at highest level since 2011 meltdown.” (The Guardian, Feb. 3, 2017).

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/...1-meltdown

http://mainichi.jp/english/articles/2017...dm/087000c

https://www.japantoday.com/category/nati...ma-reactor

This has led to a number of alarming stories claiming that radiation at Daiichi has “spiked” to unprecedented levels. That’s not what the findings indicate, however. In addition, Safecast’s own measurements, including our Pointcast realtime detector system have shown radiation levels near Daiichi to be steadily declining. As described in the Safecast Report, Vol.2, Section 2.1.4, TEPCO and its research partners have been developing robots and remote visualization devices to search for melted fuel debris deep inside the Daiichi reactor units, and to help plan for its eventual removal. On January 30th, 2017, a long telescoping device with a camera and radiation measurement device attached was inserted through an existing opening in the reactor containment of Unit 2 for the first time, and successfully extended approximately 8 meters into in an area known as the “pedestal,” to measure and take images from immediately below the damaged reactor pressure vessel (RPV). In addition to finding the area covered with molten material likely to be fuel debris, radiation levels of 530 Sieverts per hour were detected, which would be fatal to a person exposed for only a few seconds.

It must be stressed that radiation in this area has not been measured before, and it was expected to be extremely high. While 530 Sv/hr is the highest measured so far at Fukushima Daiichi, it does not mean that levels there are rising, but that a previously unmeasurable high-radiation area has finally been measured. Similar remote investigations are being planned for Daiichi Units 1 and 3. We should not be surprised if even higher radiation levels are found there, but only actual measurements will tell. Unit 4 was defuelled at the time of the accident, and though the reactor building exploded and the spent fuel pool was dangerously exposed, it did not suffer a meltdown, so similar investigations are not being conducted.

Under a consortium called IRID, TEPCO and its research partners have been developing robots and other devices to assist in investigations inside the damaged reactors, where radiation levels are too high to allow humans to safely enter. The recent investigations at Unit 2 were intended to help plan the travel path of a folding crawler robot called the “Scorpion.” This device is designed to crawl around on the metal grating deck inside the pedestal and gather further imagery and measurements. The recent investigations, however, have revealed a 1×1 meter section of the deck to be melted through, and much of the rest may be impassable for the robot. In addition, the high radiation levels will likely limit the amount of time the robot will be able to operate before malfunctioning to about 2 hours, instead of the planned 10 hours. Much more melted fuel debris is assumed to have settled beneath the pedestal grating on the concrete basemat of the reactor. It was hoped that the Scorpion would be able to provide imagery of this. Not surprisingly, TEPCO is once again revising its plans based on the recent findings. These investigations are technically quite impressive, but they have already been delayed for over a year due to the need to more adequately decontaminate the area where human workers must operate and to solve other technical problems. This recent imagery is extremely informative and helpful, and had been eagerly awaited by many concerned people, including Safecast. If nothing else, we have learned to be patient as TEPCO proceeds slowly and cautiously with this work. The process of removing melted fuel debris from the damaged reactors at Fukushima Daiichi is expected to take decades, and these recent findings remind us once again that TEPCO has little grounds for optimism about the challenges of this massive and technically unprecedented project.

Post: #117

It appears to be a older video cause they keep referring to Obummer

Post: #118

It's hard to make out the truth on Fukushima between the fringe alarmist endtimer types and the official all-is-well deniers.

Post: #119

Mainstream media finally picking this up.... I really think this is a much bigger deal then anyone is letting on. You can't just take some rags and Windex an clean up radiation, the area, machines and vehicles from Chernobyl still 30 years later are contaminated with lethal levels of radiation. Plus there is a good chance that this plant will collapse onto itself and create the largest BOOM the world has seen since those cavemen blew up the Dinosaurs.

Post: #120

There's no way the Fukushima Daiichi plant could blow up short of someone dropping a bomb on it, so don't worry about that.

Article discussing what that guy on Fox said:

Quote:I blame 1950s B-movies: sixty years later, it appears that most of what journalists know about radioactivity came from watching Godzilla.

On February 8, Adam Housley of Fox News reported a story with a terrifying headline: "Radiation at Japan's Fukushima Reactor Is Now at 'Unimaginable' Levels." Let's just pick up the most exciting paragraphs:

Quote:The radiation levels at Japan's crippled Fukushima nuclear power plant are now at "unimaginable" levels.

[Housley] said the radiation levels -- as high as 530 sieverts per hour -- are now the highest they've been since 2011 when a tsunami hit the coastal reactor.

"To put this in very simple terms. Four sieverts can kill a handful of people," he explained.

The degree to which this story is misleading is amazing, but to explain it, we need a little bit of a tutorial.

The Touhoku earthquake and tsunami on March 11, 2011, along with all the other damage they caused, knocked out the TEPCO Fukushima Daiichi ("plant #1") and Daini ("plant #2") reactors. Basically, the two reactors were hit with a 1000-year earthquake and a 1000-year tsunami, and the plants as built weren't able to handle it.

Both reactors failed, and after a sequence of unfortunate events, melted down. I wrote quite a lot about it at the time; bearing in mind this was early in the story, my article from then has a lot of useful information.

Let's dispose of the silliest error first: "Four sieverts can kill a handful of people."

Here's what he really means: an exposure to four sieverts total dose will kill about half the people exposed. If you were inside the reactor, after a little over two minutes of exposure the chance you'll die is 50/50.

Next, let's look at the terror headline itself, the "unimaginable" level of radiation.

Here is a schematic of a "boiling water reactor" which is what is at the Fukushima plant. The "1." and "2." I've added; they'll be important in a minute:



To get a little bit better information than the Fox story, let's go instead to the Science Alert website for their article on this:

Quote:The radiation levels inside Japan's damaged Fukushima Daiichi nuclear reactor No. 2 have soared in recent weeks, reaching a maximum of 530 sieverts per hour, a number experts have called "unimaginable."

Now, let's refer back to the image above. Most commercial nuclear reactors have what's called the "primary containment" around the reactor: a sealed steel or reinforced concrete shell around the actual reactor. Outside that is the "secondary containment," another sealed building surrounding the primary containment. The unexpectedly high radiation levels -- and 530 Sieverts is way high, no question -- were detected inside the containment, the area marked by "1."

This is important, because everyone in Japan is in the area marked by "2.", technically called outside the containment. This is a Good Thing. What's even better is that we now know the radiation exposure in area 2 was only about 15 percent of what was originally thought.

So, the tl;dr here is: "Don't panic. The high radiation is only inside the reactor." I will say, though, that I wouldn't recommend anyone going into the containment vessel.

At Fukushima Daiichi [fixed], they got a robot close enough to measure the radiation level close to the "elephant's foot" -- the mass of slag that results when the reactor melts down. This was very high -- the article mentioned 530 Sieverts, but it's unclear what they mean, because Sieverts are a measure of biological damage, not radiation dose. Still, it's way high. (Reading news reports about these things can be very frustrating.)

While we're here, let's look at Housley's other attempt at a factual statement:

Quote:"The worry is with 300 tons of radioactive water going into the Pacific every day, what is that doing to the Pacific Ocean?" said Housley.

This, at least, is something we can evaluate.

Radioactivity is measured with two units, the Bequerel and the Curie; the Bequerel is ridiculously small, the Curie ridiculously large. (You can find a long detailed explanation in my article "Understanding Radiation" from the time of the Fukushima accident.) A Bequerel is one decay event per second.

TEPCO and the Japanese government carefully measure the radioactivity in the water being released, and report it regularly. Their February 1 report records only one significant radionuclide in the water: tritium, the third hydrogen isotope. The radioactivity level is between 780 and 820 Bq per liter of water.

What does this mean? Well, the U.S. EPA safety standard for tritium in drinking water sets an upper limit of 740 Bq/liter. Basically, you wouldn't want to drink it, right there at the outflow into the Pacific, for any extended length of time -- although it probably wouldn't hurt you.

You could swim in it, though.

So what have we learned today?

We learned that inside the reactor containment at Fukushima Daini, site of the post-tsunami reactor accident, it's very very radioactive. How radioactive? We don't know, because the dose rate has been reported in inappropriate units -- Sieverts are only meaningful if someone is inside the reactor to get dosed.

Then we learned that the Fukushima accident is leaking 300 tons of radioactive water -- but until we dig into primary sources, we didn't learn the radioactive water is very nearly clean enough to be drinking water. So what effect does this have on the ocean, as Housley asks? None.

The third thing we learned -- and I think probably the most important thing -- is to never trust a journalist writing about anything involving radiation, the metric system, or any arithmetic more challenging than long division.

I'm not an expert on radiation or anything--I mostly just learned about it in chemistry in college and picked some other stuff up over the years--but that article's a lot more in line with what I do know than the general alarmism we've been hearing.

I'll grant you the actual containment area is pretty fucked and it's not going to be an easy job dealing with it. But as long as it's contained, it's just not that big a deal. Maybe we'll get some novel new tech out of this like radiation super-resistant robots or trained cockroaches or something. Gotta find that silver lining bro.

Post: #121

The best-case scenario for Fukushima at this point is a 40yr containment process with continuous radioactive leaks, which will cost Japan around half a trillion dollar.

The worst case scenario is, well, far worse...

Post: #122

I seriously doubt the huge $500 billion number is accurate because that's about what we spent on our entire space program in constant dollars*. It simply doesn't pass the smell test. The only way it's going to cost that much is if they take ridiculously over the top measures with no sound scientific basis during cleanup. I bet there's a fair amount of graft involved as well.

Looking online, I see the estimates (~$200 billion at present) apparently include paying residents a lot of money. That's incredibly misleading when talking about remediation and reclamation of the actual site.

And what's the worst case scenario? What's actually possible here? The radioactive sludge has been sitting in the same place for years, it's not just going to spontaneously escape now. The radiation that is escaping in the water is just not a big deal. As that article cites, all that's in the water is tritium, which isn't very dangerous. It beta-decays into helium and has a short half-life. Sooner or later they'll plug the leaks and the net harm of what's happening now will be negligible.

It's more likely there will be a major accident from a fuckup while trying to remove the waste than if they just encased the area, monitored it, and left it alone until they developed giant trained cockroaches and super robots. Hopefully it won't be a bog standard government operation like the 2015 EPA show of competence that totally fucked that river out west.


* I think. On the order of, anyway. I don't feel like doing the math myself and another source claim NASA has spent up to $900 billion total in constant dollars.

Post: #123

When I return to North America, I'm going to buy a Geiger Counter and check.

Fukushima nuclear plant owner apologizes for still radioactive water.

Who is still following this?

Post: #124

Every day, the pacific ocean is hit with gamma rays and is converted into Tritium and other radioactive substances. Every day the amount of radioactivity that is added to the pacific ocean is 1000000000000000000000000 times as much as the entire contents of the Fukishima reactor.

Fukishima is so completely irrelevant to the fish in the ocean, it's equivalent to peeing in the ocean from a rubber dinghy. That radiation is so infinitely small that it's zero, from a practical perspective.

Bulldoze the entire plant into the ocean. The ocean will not even notice, nor will any human being more than a mile away.

Post: #125

(02-13-2017 01:08 AM)weambulance Wrote:  As that article cites, all that's in the water is tritium,

Thank you for the summary. People can drink Tritium. You could bath in tritium every singe day your entire life and never even get a sunburn.

Average people are morons about radiation.