Post: #26

(10-05-2016 09:10 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  I'm getting this general vibe from a lot of different members' experiences in Kiev that it's basically become an overt sexpat trap. Like every English-speaking person non-Ukranian there is basically a player or wannabe-player looking for sex with hot EE bitches.

Anyone have any experience going to non-typical locales to meet women? Just sounding like Kiev is becoming saturated and ultra played-out.

Comrade Stalin, nothing better than check it out for yourself...

I always doubt guys that say wonders about the easiness of Kiev, and not the other way around. It is, and I hope it will stay forever a hard place for non Russian speakers. But like in any other cities, probably there are niches and groupies of specific types of guys/styles/nationalities/ethnicity...

People are far from naive and all girls know why foreigners are there, and except for a few very rare exceptions, no one goes to Ukraine to make "business".

There are girls for everyone, but do not expect to be an International all around player slaying the cream of the crop without mastering the local lingo, even if so, better have some cash and local connections.

This holds true for Kiev or any other part of Ukraine, there, normally the player gets played, that's why I think it is the ultimate hunting ground.

I am actually quite anxious to verify, confirm or deny these new negative reports, when I arrive next week after a 5 month hiatus, but I had seen anything of different last time. Plan B is my beloved Kharkov.

Post: #27

(10-05-2016 10:09 PM)Rocha Wrote:  

(10-05-2016 09:10 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  I'm getting this general vibe from a lot of different members' experiences in Kiev that it's basically become an overt sexpat trap. Like every English-speaking person non-Ukranian there is basically a player or wannabe-player looking for sex with hot EE bitches.

Anyone have any experience going to non-typical locales to meet women? Just sounding like Kiev is becoming saturated and ultra played-out.

Comrade Stalin, nothing better than check it out for yourself...

I always doubt guys that say wonders about the easiness of Kiev, and not the other way around. It is, and I hope it will stay forever a hard place for non Russian speakers. But like in any other cities, probably there are niches and groupies of specific types of guys/styles/nationalities/ethnicity...

People are far from naive and all girls know why foreigners are there, and except for a few very rare exceptions, no one goes to Ukraine to make "business".

There are girls for everyone, but do not expect to be an International all around player slaying the cream of the crop without mastering the local lingo, even if so, better have some cash and local connections.

This holds true for Kiev or any other part of Ukraine, there, normally the player gets played, that's why I think it is the ultimate hunting ground.

I am actually quite anxious to verify, confirm or deny these new negative reports, when I arrive next week after a 5 month hiatus, but I had seen anything of different last time. Plan B is my beloved Kharkov.

could you elaborate on your love for kharkov

Post: #28

(10-05-2016 10:36 PM)Kale_anonymous Wrote:  

(10-05-2016 10:09 PM)Rocha Wrote:  

(10-05-2016 09:10 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  I'm getting this general vibe from a lot of different members' experiences in Kiev that it's basically become an overt sexpat trap. Like every English-speaking person non-Ukranian there is basically a player or wannabe-player looking for sex with hot EE bitches.

Anyone have any experience going to non-typical locales to meet women? Just sounding like Kiev is becoming saturated and ultra played-out.

Comrade Stalin, nothing better than check it out for yourself...

I always doubt guys that say wonders about the easiness of Kiev, and not the other way around. It is, and I hope it will stay forever a hard place for non Russian speakers. But like in any other cities, probably there are niches and groupies of specific types of guys/styles/nationalities/ethnicity...

People are far from naive and all girls know why foreigners are there, and except for a few very rare exceptions, no one goes to Ukraine to make "business".

There are girls for everyone, but do not expect to be an International all around player slaying the cream of the crop without mastering the local lingo, even if so, better have some cash and local connections.

This holds true for Kiev or any other part of Ukraine, there, normally the player gets played, that's why I think it is the ultimate hunting ground.

I am actually quite anxious to verify, confirm or deny these new negative reports, when I arrive next week after a 5 month hiatus, but I had seen anything of different last time. Plan B is my beloved Kharkov.

could you elaborate on your love for kharkov

Sure. 2mio student city with vibrating nightlife almost every night of the week. More info via PM or checkout my posts in the Kharkov thread

Post: #29

Just wanted to give my update on my trip to Kiev after returning home last night. Overall my trip was a disaster. Three weeks and zero notches. As I previously mentioned I love the city of Kiev. Probably the safest city I have ever visited and overall have nothing but great things to say about the city.

Not understanding the language and being unable to read any signs in the city was challenging but, I enjoyed the challenge and after awhile slowly started learning my way around.

I stayed on Bastionna street about a mile from city center. Kinda close to the mall. Overall it was a good location for daygame, with small cafes, bars and restaurants. Getting around I relied on taking buses to save on cash as I'm trying to evaluate my montly expenses. Realized that I could live there on 1,000$ a month easy.

Okay, now about the women. If I could describe my experience in one word it would be confusion. Online game seems to be a waste of time. I used Ukrainedate and easily had about 25 numbers that I converted over to viber or whatsapp. Most I think were P2P. The dates I went on were mostly 45 minute boring coffee dates.

Only tried night game on acouple occasions but, overall didn't do well. Maybe it was me. Not sure.

Daygame, this is what I concentrated most of my efforts on. Opproached alot of women and received warm responses. No harsh blowouts or bitchiness. Women all seemed nice. Getting lots of numbers is father easy. But, for me this is where it all would go downhill. Trying to get them on dates was difficult and time consuming. Sometimes I would go on a date with a women. Have her text me after saying she couldn't wait to see me again. Set up plans to meet latter in the week. Then never hear from her again.

My honest opinion. If I were looking for a country to live in May - September I think this would be a good location. Looking for a place to spend 3 weeks on a vacation. No way....

On my last trip to the phils. I hooked up with a really hot girl on my second day in country. See basically moved in with me and I spend 3 weeks tearing it up 3 times a day. Her and I traveling all over the phils, swimming with whale sharks , scuba diving, swimming, parasailing. Now thats a vacation!!

Now, I knew I was going to struggle before I came to Kiev. I knew I would struggle badly. But, not that bad. Lol..

Post: #30

Average looking 45 year olds aren't going to roll into any country outside of SEA and bang dozens of hot young girls. That's a pipe dream.

In the West you'd be in the 35+ single mom zone. You can definitely do better than that in Ukraine but it's no cake walk like the Philippines.

Post: #31

@ CC

I never made any comments about expecting to bang dozens of hot young girls. I would have been more then happy with one 7 and having her as my girlfriend.

Age doesn't have anything to do with it. If I remember correctly forum member Vinny is two years older then myself with 10x the results.

Post: #32

Schlep, you need to adjust your approach.

Forget the philippines, youre never gonna have that kind of success in Kiev.

Youre 45? and your approach was very western, basically you were a 45 year old college boy in Kiev as far as approach and lifestyle.

Thats not gonna be very attractive to many ukrainian girls. Yes a lot are open to dating older men but what makes an older man attractive is projecting some kind of success or lifestyle and mentality upgrade that they wont find in boys their age. Or that the older women who are seeking a stable partner want.

Younger college boys will do fine with the young girls looking to have fun and will think its cool hes foreigner or at very least wont mind it.

If i were you i would invest more money/time into less girls maybe or make a lifestyle/game adjustment in that direction.

One niche i think youd do good in is late 20s early 30s single moms. I know everyone dogs on these but some FSU ones are very hot and pleasant, because theyve been knocked down in life and dont strut like divas in their 20s anymore. Plus its almost never their fault that theyre single moms since most had married out of love and then the guy bailed.

Yes some will be looking for replacement for their husband and/or sponsors but i found that many are very realistic and will know the score, theyll be happy that someone is being nice/pleasant and showing them a good time.

Post: #33

I am sorry to hear that Schlep.

I feel somewhat guilty of saying good things about Kiev and being one of the many influences which made you decide for Kiev.

The reason is the game.
Gaming in Philippines is not real game. You show up, don't make mistakes and get the girl.

In Kiev you need it all. Good game, preferably knowledge of language, being able to demonstrate your value without having material possessions and did I say the game?

But if you do it right the rewards are the best ever.

You are location independent now right? I say for a European winter go to Asia bang away, go to gym, start learning Russian, improve whatever you can, come up with a good story of why you are in Kiev and give it another try next summer.

The ultimate question is: when you ever decide to settle with a girl if you ever do, who would you rather be seen with? Ukrainian girl or a Philipina?

Post: #34

(10-06-2016 12:44 PM)Cambodian Creamsicle Wrote:  Average looking 45 year olds aren't going to roll into any country outside of SEA and bang dozens of hot young girls. That's a pipe dream.

In the West you'd be in the 35+ single mom zone. You can definitely do better than that in Ukraine but it's no cake walk like the Philippines.

I disagree. I know some who do it in Russia and Ukraine. There are more factors other than age and average looks.

Post: #35

(10-06-2016 12:35 PM)Schlep Wrote:  Just wanted to give my update on my trip to Kiev after returning home last night. Overall my trip was a disaster. Three weeks and zero notches. As I previously mentioned I love the city of Kiev. Probably the safest city I have ever visited and overall have nothing but great things to say about the city.

Did you get any makouts or near misses at least? This is disheartening as I'm headed to Kiev in a week or two. I'm only 33 and have a (somewhat) location independent job. I have a basic understanding of Russian and can read cyrillic so hopefully I will fare a little better.

Post: #36

No Vinny you have nothing to apologize for. Guys like you Rocha, Beirut and Going Strong just make me a better person in the end. I failed but, will learn and better myself.

I'm basically location independent financially wise but, still in America also working my day job till the end of the year for tax reasons.

And yes I would take a Ukrainian woman for a LTR any day. And, basically that is what I'm looking for.

Post: #37

@ invictusiii

Yeah, I got two woman back to my place. Full makeouts and one getting the bra off and some titie action but, think I was to aggressive. Never heard back from either one. On another occasion got a woman back to her place. Same thing, little makeout and playing with tities but, that was it.

Another thing I noticed. I'm not a bad looking guy. 6'1" 170 lbs and always dressed well. My dress usually consisted of a suit and tie with brown leather jacket. In the states I usually receive somewhat eye contact. In Kiev zero eye contact.

Post: #38

(10-06-2016 02:28 PM)Schlep Wrote:  @ invictusiii

Yeah, I got two woman back to my place. Full makeouts and one getting the bra off and some titie action but, think I was to aggressive. Never heard back from either one. On another occasion got a woman back to her place. Same thing, little makeout and playing with tities but, that was it.

Another thing I noticed. I'm not a bad looking guy. 6'1" 170 lbs and always dressed well. My dress usually consisted of a suit and tie with brown leather jacket. In the states I usually receive somewhat eye contact. In Kiev zero eye contact.

The suit and tie might have been it. It's more of a provider look than a look for someone that's looking for quick sex. In my experience, EE girls will usually hold out longer if they feel they can extract things from you. Not sure if this was the case with you in Kiev though. Might try dressing well but a little more dressed down next time. Switch to some nice jeans and lose the tie.

Post: #39

(10-06-2016 12:35 PM)Schlep Wrote:  Just wanted to give my update on my trip to Kiev after returning home last night. Overall my trip was a disaster. Three weeks and zero notches. As I previously mentioned I love the city of Kiev. Probably the safest city I have ever visited and overall have nothing but great things to say about the city.

Not understanding the language and being unable to read any signs in the city was challenging but, I enjoyed the challenge and after awhile slowly started learning my way around.

I stayed on Bastionna street about a mile from city center. Kinda close to the mall. Overall it was a good location for daygame, with small cafes, bars and restaurants. Getting around I relied on taking buses to save on cash as I'm trying to evaluate my montly expenses. Realized that I could live there on 1,000$ a month easy.

Okay, now about the women. If I could describe my experience in one word it would be confusion. Online game seems to be a waste of time. I used Ukrainedate and easily had about 25 numbers that I converted over to viber or whatsapp. Most I think were P2P. The dates I went on were mostly 45 minute boring coffee dates.

Only tried night game on acouple occasions but, overall didn't do well. Maybe it was me. Not sure.

Daygame, this is what I concentrated most of my efforts on. Opproached alot of women and received warm responses. No harsh blowouts or bitchiness. Women all seemed nice. Getting lots of numbers is father easy. But, for me this is where it all would go downhill. Trying to get them on dates was difficult and time consuming. Sometimes I would go on a date with a women. Have her text me after saying she couldn't wait to see me again. Set up plans to meet latter in the week. Then never hear from her again.

My honest opinion. If I were looking for a country to live in May - September I think this would be a good location. Looking for a place to spend 3 weeks on a vacation. No way....

On my last trip to the phils. I hooked up with a really hot girl on my second day in country. See basically moved in with me and I spend 3 weeks tearing it up 3 times a day. Her and I traveling all over the phils, swimming with whale sharks , scuba diving, swimming, parasailing. Now thats a vacation!!

Now, I knew I was going to struggle before I came to Kiev. I knew I would struggle badly. But, not that bad. Lol..

That sucks, i'm afraid that as an average looking 45yr old it's going to be more about money with the Ukrainian girls, and talking about money isn't enough you will have to prove it by spending on her.

You'll also lift give yourself big lift by ensuring your wardrobe is top notch, for example jeans should be at least $100 mark, nice blazer, and shoes. I cannot emphasise enough how important shoes are - even the dudes will check your footwear out to gauge the competition .

Expenditure for a under 25 cutie is going to be in the $500-1000 a month range, this figure decreases as she they get older to the point where you can get a 35yr old for about $200

Sounds like prostitution, but if you are to expect feminine traditional women, then you must be a traditional man, a provider, she must know you will take care of her.

Also the real hunting to be done is in winter in Ukraine, it's dark and cold, girls are at home depressed and looking for action. I would go as far to say as avoid Ukraine in winter altogether.

Post: #40

Schelp,

Thanks for the update. I have enjoyed this thread. I was equally perplexed regarding Ukrainian women after my first trip, which was shorter than your duration.

I believe Vinny is actually in his 20s not 40s, so you are in different phases of your life.

While your goals may have been to get laid or have a consistent 7, I don't think your trip was a failure. I think you are being overly hard on yourself.

There is a a lot of hype about Kiev and sometimes we set up high expectations. Of course we all want to get laid, but you did pull two girls back to your apartment and went out with several cute girls. If things broke a bit different for you, it might have been a big success for you. I think you did fine for yourself and I appreciate your honest report.

What is often lost in our thinking is that we represent 50% of the equation. The girl and uncontrolled factors represent the other half. We can only control that part of the equation. Sometimes things just don't break our way, through no fault of our own.

For an older guy, you need more time in Kiev to make things happen. Learn from your experience and come back to Kiev stronger and more prepared.

I don't think there was anything wrong with how you dressed considering your age. If you dressed down, guys would be chiming in that you didn't dress well enough.

Post: #41

Dantes, i was gonna write him a msg saying the exact same thing.

I honestly expected worse from his trip. (not that i know anything about you schlep, but considering age+lack of exposure to FSU+ your target girls).

I think some adjustments you could consider making are:

- How deep did you pipeline? not talking about numbers, but did you extensively get to know some select girls that youre into?

- Who were your targets? College girls? bit older women? etc...

- Venues/lifestyle: guys in their 20s can get away in hipster bars and cafes but you have a whole group of women whod be into you if you upgrade a little bit.

- Lack of nightlife: are you not into it at all? If i had a group of friends in Kiev id be hitting the nightlife hard every day.

Post: #42

My first bang in Ukraine was on my third trip...and it was in the penultimate day...And then I banged another one via a disco ONS that same night...I was only 28...

I was about to quit Ukraine...but everything can happen over there.

Schlep, learn some Grygory Leps songs and sing them at karaoke to the girls, and then все будет хорошо...

I can say that today Я больше не прошу ))))

Post: #43

I have to agree with what everybody is saying in this thread. I went from Colombia to Ukraine (been here the past 5 months) and when I first arrived it was like hitting hitting a glass wall. The girls look slutty (with their short shorts and braless shirts), they seem down, but then you hit the invisible glass wall while pushing for sex. When you make any mistake, they are gone. In most other places girls will let you get away with those mistakes, so you can be lazy, but it hasn't been my experience in Ukraine.

The other difficulty (i'm in eastern Ukraine so it's probably magnified) is that most women want you to wait a long time for sex. So, unlike most places, not only do you have to continuously game the entire date, but you have to do it the following 5/6 dates as well. Then, there is that my Russian is not great (converstaional but not great). Only towards the end of my stay (as my russian got conversational) have I started doing decently and it's from a very big investment on my part. For sex the ROI just doesn't seem worth it.

Overall I would say Eastern Ukraine is not a place for getting laid, but it is a place for a hot girlfriend (the quality has been very good).

I know this is a Kiev thread, but after adding the first part I just ended up on a rant.

As a quick comparison, I have found women in Kiev and Odessa easier to sleep with, but also more dishonest than the girls from Kharkov who have seemed more like honest, reserved girls but who want you to really wait for sex. In my 2 months spent in Kiev and Odessa my dates it took per bang was about 3. In Khakov it has been more around 6. Add into that '6' losing girls after already going on 4 dates with them (and 4th date i was just not feeling like gaming) and it can be frustrating.

All that said, I rarely meet a girl who has ever met an American and I really like the city for everything but sex.

Post: #44

(10-06-2016 05:11 PM)20Nation Wrote:  I have to agree with what everybody is saying in this thread. I went from Colombia to Ukraine (been here the past 5 months) and when I first arrived it was like hitting hitting a glass wall. The girls look slutty (with their short shorts and braless shirts), they seem down, but then you hit the invisible glass wall while pushing for sex. When you make any mistake, they are gone. In most other places girls will let you get away with those mistakes, so you can be lazy, but it hasn't been my experience in Ukraine.

The other difficulty (i'm in eastern Ukraine so it's probably magnified) is that most women want you to wait a long time for sex. So, unlike most places, not only do you have to continuously game the entire date, but you have to do it the following 5/6 dates as well. Then, there is that my Russian is not great (converstaional but not great). Only towards the end of my stay (as my russian got conversational) have I started doing decently and it's from a very big investment on my part. For sex the ROI just doesn't seem worth it.

Overall I would say Eastern Ukraine is not a place for getting laid, but it is a place for a hot girlfriend (the quality has been very good).

I know this is a Kiev thread, but after adding the first part I just ended up on a rant.

As a quick comparison, I have found women in Kiev and Odessa easier to sleep with, but also more dishonest than the girls from Kharkov who have seemed more like honest, reserved girls but who want you to really wait for sex. In my 2 months spent in Kiev and Odessa my dates it took per bang was about 3. In Khakov it has been more around 6. Add into that '6' losing girls after already going on 4 dates with them (and 4th date i was just not feeling like gaming) and it can be frustrating.

All that said, I rarely meet a girl who has ever met an American and I really like the city for everything but sex.

It is funny how different guys have different perspective on some places. I would say that for me Kharkov is totally the opposite. Girls drink more, are more crazy/unpredictable, and bang easier on the first night.

Post: #45

(10-06-2016 05:33 PM)Rocha Wrote:  

(10-06-2016 05:11 PM)20Nation Wrote:  I have to agree with what everybody is saying in this thread. I went from Colombia to Ukraine (been here the past 5 months) and when I first arrived it was like hitting hitting a glass wall. The girls look slutty (with their short shorts and braless shirts), they seem down, but then you hit the invisible glass wall while pushing for sex. When you make any mistake, they are gone. In most other places girls will let you get away with those mistakes, so you can be lazy, but it hasn't been my experience in Ukraine.

The other difficulty (i'm in eastern Ukraine so it's probably magnified) is that most women want you to wait a long time for sex. So, unlike most places, not only do you have to continuously game the entire date, but you have to do it the following 5/6 dates as well. Then, there is that my Russian is not great (converstaional but not great). Only towards the end of my stay (as my russian got conversational) have I started doing decently and it's from a very big investment on my part. For sex the ROI just doesn't seem worth it.

Overall I would say Eastern Ukraine is not a place for getting laid, but it is a place for a hot girlfriend (the quality has been very good).

I know this is a Kiev thread, but after adding the first part I just ended up on a rant.

As a quick comparison, I have found women in Kiev and Odessa easier to sleep with, but also more dishonest than the girls from Kharkov who have seemed more like honest, reserved girls but who want you to really wait for sex. In my 2 months spent in Kiev and Odessa my dates it took per bang was about 3. In Khakov it has been more around 6. Add into that '6' losing girls after already going on 4 dates with them (and 4th date i was just not feeling like gaming) and it can be frustrating.

All that said, I rarely meet a girl who has ever met an American and I really like the city for everything but sex.

It is funny how different guys have different perspective on some places. I would say that for me Kharkov is totally the opposite. Girls drink more, are more crazy/unpredictable, and bang easier on the first night.

Yeah sometimes that's how it goes. Chance and strategy also play a part in our experiences. 5 and a half months in kharkov and I don't have a same date lay, not even a second date lay. In contrast to Kiev and Odessa where I got plenty of sdl/snl's. I've also ended up dating three girls that I later found out were virgins. I talk to local guys who are dating stunning 18 year olds and they think that it's normal they had to wait years for sex.
The difference in cultures between here and Colombia are black and white.

Post: #46

(10-06-2016 06:06 PM)20Nation Wrote:  

(10-06-2016 05:33 PM)Rocha Wrote:  

(10-06-2016 05:11 PM)20Nation Wrote:  I have to agree with what everybody is saying in this thread. I went from Colombia to Ukraine (been here the past 5 months) and when I first arrived it was like hitting hitting a glass wall. The girls look slutty (with their short shorts and braless shirts), they seem down, but then you hit the invisible glass wall while pushing for sex. When you make any mistake, they are gone. In most other places girls will let you get away with those mistakes, so you can be lazy, but it hasn't been my experience in Ukraine.

The other difficulty (i'm in eastern Ukraine so it's probably magnified) is that most women want you to wait a long time for sex. So, unlike most places, not only do you have to continuously game the entire date, but you have to do it the following 5/6 dates as well. Then, there is that my Russian is not great (converstaional but not great). Only towards the end of my stay (as my russian got conversational) have I started doing decently and it's from a very big investment on my part. For sex the ROI just doesn't seem worth it.

Overall I would say Eastern Ukraine is not a place for getting laid, but it is a place for a hot girlfriend (the quality has been very good).

I know this is a Kiev thread, but after adding the first part I just ended up on a rant.

As a quick comparison, I have found women in Kiev and Odessa easier to sleep with, but also more dishonest than the girls from Kharkov who have seemed more like honest, reserved girls but who want you to really wait for sex. In my 2 months spent in Kiev and Odessa my dates it took per bang was about 3. In Khakov it has been more around 6. Add into that '6' losing girls after already going on 4 dates with them (and 4th date i was just not feeling like gaming) and it can be frustrating.

All that said, I rarely meet a girl who has ever met an American and I really like the city for everything but sex.

It is funny how different guys have different perspective on some places. I would say that for me Kharkov is totally the opposite. Girls drink more, are more crazy/unpredictable, and bang easier on the first night.

Yeah sometimes that's how it goes. Chance and strategy also play a part in our experiences. 5 and a half months in kharkov and I don't have a same date lay, not even a second date lay. In contrast to Kiev and Odessa where I got plenty of sdl/snl's. I've also ended up dating three girls that I later found out were virgins. I talk to local guys who are dating stunning 18 year olds and they think that it's normal they had to wait years for sex.
The difference in cultures between here and Colombia are black and white.

I was in Odessa 3 weeks and nothing...))) and the episode I narrated before of 2 lays the same day was in Kharkov ))

Post: #47

[/quote]

How good would you say your Russian needs to be in Kiev? I know a handful of words and phrases and can even formulate some of my own sentences from scratch here and there. I'm definitely not fluent though.
[/quote]

That's a complicated answer...it really depends on your comfort level, the better your Russian the easier it is to approach girls (daytime) with more natural energy...
i.e just knowing that you can have a back and forth in either Russian or English and that you're going to be understood is priceless because it makes you virtually unstoppable
and makes everything 10x more enjoyable.

On the flip side, returning back to Germany I felt like I had gained a superpower now that I could use English practically anywhere again.

Post: #48

@ Beirut

As far as pipelining. I started about three weeks before my trip. Set my age for 20 - 35. And, only chatted on viber and whatsapp with 8 - 10 woman. Sending pics. Chatting every other couple days. They seemed like they were into me. But, me being to aggressive turned them off.

Looking back on things, I know what I should have done differently when I first arrived. Something I can't discuss on the forum.

Post: #49

It sounds like you gave it a good effort. I appreciate the transparency.

Post: #50

Ukraine is indeed the place to find an LTR. That is when I am going to look for a wife eventually when I am ready. So if you decided for an LTR with Ukrainian girl I guess this thread will be revived this summer.

I think you should stay longer next time. And come up with a good story why you are in Kiev. Or even do something to justify that. This will make a big difference.

Also if you are too aggressive, stick to 3 date rule. 1st date meeting or when you open, 2nd date a kiss, 3rd day try for a bang. This should be reasonably safe.

BTW: How do you compare Ukrainian girls to Philipinas mentality wise. I mean intellect and ability to have a good conversation.

I find Russian and Ukrainian girls smartest on the planet, they also tend to read a lot. But I speak Russian so I can get this out of them. It might be different with English. Philipinas although they speak good English on the contrary are pretty boring conversationalists.

@Dantes: I am 28. Good age in Ukraine. Actually my first visit to Odessa was when I was 25. Few girls told me I am too young, and did not take me seriously. I think 30-35 is the golden age for Ukraine.