Post: #26

I'm skeptical of the long term viability of shale deposits and extraction. The entire environment and extraction was predicated on 80+$ barrel of oil and low interests rates. I recall seeing a DOE revision of shale well viability being downgraded to a paltry joke.

While i nod and hope the best for our oil and gas friends, there still needs to be a push for alternative fuels. Why don't we have nat gas cars and fuel stations yet?

Post: #27

Quote:Why don't we have nat gas cars and fuel stations yet?

Look to the first part of your post. Because oil is so cheap.

Post: #28

(09-29-2016 12:12 AM)porscheguy Wrote:  Someone tell me how paying higher prices at the pump is good for me.

Because for that extra dollar you pay in gas, it keeps hundreds of thousands of people from flyover states employed in a job that pays 60-150K with a high school education whose previous job paid minimum wage.

Ironically those same folks complain and want politicians to increase the price to $3/gal or more so these folks can keep their jobs. When you point you that the state planning the central means of production is socialism, they get riled up.

Post: #29

"Because for that extra dollar you pay in gas, it keeps hundreds of thousands of people from flyover states employed in a job that pays 60-150K with a high school education whose previous job paid minimum wage."

That's cool and all, but I really kind of need that money. The coasts are expensive and I don't have a lot of cash to blow on a charity program for a good that other people can provide cheaper.

Post: #30

(09-29-2016 02:02 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

Quote:Why don't we have nat gas cars and fuel stations yet?

Look to the first part of your post. Because oil is so cheap.

And it's cheap because the sauds are flooding the market.

How long can they sustain this before their coffers let alone their own wells run dry?

(09-28-2016 07:01 PM)Vicious Wrote:  I work in Oil & gas. The people in this thread that think low oil prices were somehow fortuitous to the Obama presidency are actively making the forum dumber. Please don't speak on subjects you are clearly ignorant on in order to try to wring some political points no one cares about. .

Snide remarks aside, to the average 90 IQ voter, they do. Obama in particular has been trying to buy politipoints for cheap gas pump prices even though his mostly antagonistic policies have done nothing of the sort. He just got lucky there was an environment that pushed prices down. Almost like Bill had in the 90s with the dot com bubble boosting the overall economy.

The 90 IQ voter thinks, "Low pump price = awesome obama!". " Awesome high paying 90s job= bill"! You're right that we at RVF should be smarter.

Post: #31

(09-29-2016 12:40 AM)Vicious Wrote:  I swear that these protesters would have been the most effective foreign agents in terms of what they achieved in pure economic damage but tragically enough they are just pure American hippies and soccer moms with too much time on their hands.

The soccer moms and hippies are the useful idiots sent onto the front lines, but they're not the driving force.

There will be an NGO in the background funding a lot of these groups. Guaranteed.

"I'd hate myself if I had that kind of attitude, if I were that weak." - Arnold

Post: #32

This morning oil prices WTI is around 47 US$ and for Brent is 48 US$ per barrel.

It will be interesting if oil prices surpass 60 US$ before the end of 2016.

It's a "co-incidence" that oil prices are increasing at the same time the US election is in the works? Higher oil prices tend to indicate that the US Shale oil industry will create more jobs, thus providing a benefit to the employment rates for October 2016....

Post: #33

(09-29-2016 03:52 AM)RBerkley Wrote:  This morning oil prices WTI is around 47 US$ and for Brent is 48 US$ per barrel.

It will be interesting if oil prices surpass 60 US$ before the end of 2016.

It's a "co-incidence" that oil prices are increasing at the same time the US election is in the works? Higher oil prices tend to indicate that the US Shale oil industry will create more jobs, thus providing a benefit to the employment rates for October 2016....

It's part and parcel of a much larger picture.

This year there are US elections, next year there are elections in Europe. People are angry at establishment politicians which causes anxiety in the markets. The anxiety is registered in lower stocks, weaker volume, and more volatility in everything.

Post: #34

(09-28-2016 10:46 PM)Laner Wrote:  

(09-28-2016 10:03 PM)beta_plus Wrote:  Fracking will probably provide a medium to long term cap to how high it can go.

Keep in mind, the USA is way ahead of the rest of the world on fracking. That doesn't mean the rest doesn't want to catch up.

Between NA fracking tech and pipeline tech, we should have this continent wrapped up and pumping nicely. Good, clean, safe and secure gas and oil. But instead we are forced to use 50 yo pipes, trains and trucks. We can't get our oil to OUR OWN refineries, so bring in dirty foreign oil on tankers.

NA is a mess right now. It shouldn't be, but damn me if it isn't battling everyday to send itself back to the the 1930's.

You're making my point. Our infrastructure has really big problems yet fracking is a hit. What happens when a country that has its act together gets in on the action? The money will simply be too tempting not to do so.

Post: #35

Quote:
And it's cheap because the sauds are flooding the market.

How long can they sustain this before their coffers let alone their own wells run dry?

Most projections estimate that at worst Saudi Arabia has about 4 years left of its oil fund which is currently sitting around $500 billions. A more cautious take is about 10 with some improved market conditions.

If they actually ran as a business this chicken race would have been completely unthinkable. The strategy has long ago ceased to be rational however. A lot of the oil states are trying hard to diversify their economies, not something that theocracies and dictatorships have a very good track record with.

The only winner in this is Norway that have made long term plans to be oil independent by 2025.

Post: #36

^^ by independent do you mean independent of oil... Or independent refining, extraction, and vertical integration from underground to pump?

Post: #37

(09-29-2016 01:38 AM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  "That's a rather self-centered view. While you might be mildly inconvenienced at the pump to pay $.25 extra per gallon it makes a world of difference that the oil price is higher for the overall US economy. Especially with it being such a security factor. You went to several wars in the middle east to protect these kind of assets."

I've always found the security argument unconvincing. The oil assets in the US aren't going anywhere. We're actually more secure when our wells our capped and nobody's mining them, because that means the oil is sitting down there for when we really need it.

This has been my thinking for years. We're sitting on untapped reserves for a time in the future when the rest of the world will eventually rely on the US. Or, everything goes to hell in the rest of the world and for whatever reason we don't have access to oil elsewhere. Basically yeah, oil independence.

(09-29-2016 01:47 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  While i nod and hope the best for our oil and gas friends, there still needs to be a push for alternative fuels. Why don't we have nat gas cars and fuel stations yet?

Because it's not good for business... for those at the top and actually in control of oil.

Post: #38

How I can't wait for the day they build a working fusion reactor and all this dinosaur & tree soup extraction ceases to mean anything on the world stage. Those Saudis will be burried in revolution and go back to tents in the sand in the blink of an eye. Couple that will drug legalization and pretty much every fucked up cunt of a state will gracefully piss off and leave the rest of us alone forever. Those physics nerds really need to hurry the fuck up.

Post: #39

Thinking of US oil reserves as strategic is an outdated view mostly based in the now ridiculed idea of "peak oil". Oil reserves globally has shown to be far more resilient. This is not even taking into account that oil will likely have little economic value in 40 years. Thus the reserves are better off tapped and the funds gathered from in invested in the kind of war fund all oil producing states have.

Post: #40

Oil will likely be around for much longer than we think. As a lubricant for industry, we will not be able to create something in a lab for even close to $200 a barrel anytime soon. Our infrastructure is just too set up for oil and gas to even think this.

But as a fuel its days are certainly numbered. At least for private auto and even light transport.

I am also curious about Norway. Are they getting out of the refinery business too? Or the whole fossil fuel business entirely, even the extraction?

Post: #41

First off, I don't agree with the Thread name, OPEC doesn't set prices, the market does. And the market doesn't like being manipulated.

OPEC isn't raising the price of oil, they are trying to get their coalition to limit the oil it's pumping to decrease the glut of oil in the market. The production cut wouldn't start until November if it's approved, but you can bet the price of gas will be raised across the country immediately once this news gets out.

And just because OPEC is potentially limiting production that doesn't necessarily mean oil prices will rise, or by very much. Oil demand is falling in many of the major countries importing oil, such as the largest importer, China, so if the demand falls at or near the same rate as the supply, we are still left with prices relatively the same. There are other countries outside of OPEC that can step up their production if they choose to also, such as Russia. And many of the countries with the largest wells are having serious trouble domestically that have been limiting their oil production for months and years, such as Venezuela, Libya, Iraq, Iran etc. You can guarantee many of these countries will be ramping up their production again ASAP.

China has been buying oil like mad the last few years and has supposedly stockpiled 700+ million barrels of oil in it's strategic reserve as well. So if the price of oil does go up, they could be in direct competition with OPEC and sell some of it's own reserve to turn a profit. Combine that with their own oil consumption declining, and this is just more bad news for OPEC.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-09-30...r-disclose

Saudi Arabia is losing it's ass financially and they are trying to resort to their favorite peak oil tricks by trying to limit production, but it's not going to work like it has in the past because there is so much more competition in the market today, because of the increasing use of alternative energy sources (shale, fracking, solar, etc), and because we are ready to start tapping our own wells and strategic petroleum reserves here domestically.

To me more than anything this news means OPEC is losing a lot of it's relevancy with their global oil monopoly.

Post: #42

(09-29-2016 01:06 PM)Laner Wrote:  I am also curious about Norway. Are they getting out of the refinery business too? Or the whole fossil fuel business entirely, even the extraction?

No they are making plans to make themselves financially independent of oil.

Post: #43

(09-30-2016 05:58 PM)Vicious Wrote:  

(09-29-2016 01:06 PM)Laner Wrote:  I am also curious about Norway. Are they getting out of the refinery business too? Or the whole fossil fuel business entirely, even the extraction?

No they are making plans to make themselves financially independent of oil.

That is some very clever wording from the Norwegians then. It still allows them to create wealth from the energy industry, just as long as they make enough from other industries to keep them solvent.

I like this. I think Alberta, BC and SK should start talking like this.

Post: #44

The other thing Norway has, is that the majority of proceeds from any minerals extracted in its territory goes to the government. Those proceeds have swelled to a trillion dollar sovereign fund. If Canada as a whole had this kind of policy, it would have had an even bigger sovereign fund...

(09-29-2016 02:30 AM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

(09-29-2016 12:12 AM)porscheguy Wrote:  Someone tell me how paying higher prices at the pump is good for me.

Because for that extra dollar you pay in gas, it keeps hundreds of thousands of people from flyover states employed in a job that pays 60-150K with a high school education whose previous job paid minimum wage.

Ironically those same folks complain and want politicians to increase the price to $3/gal or more so these folks can keep their jobs. When you point you that the state planning the central means of production is socialism, they get riled up.

Trump should set up an oil import tax, and use these proceeds to implement a middle class income tax cut (and reduced taxes on gasoline). Win-win.

Post: #45

(09-29-2016 03:29 AM)Benoit Wrote:  

(09-29-2016 12:40 AM)Vicious Wrote:  I swear that these protesters would have been the most effective foreign agents in terms of what they achieved in pure economic damage but tragically enough they are just pure American hippies and soccer moms with too much time on their hands.

The soccer moms and hippies are the useful idiots sent onto the front lines, but they're not the driving force.

There will be an NGO in the background funding a lot of these groups. Guaranteed.

The global warming industry (trillion dollar carbon trading financial market and the globalist tax structure) is def behind that, but they get those groups to work for them indirectly, by brainwashing the general public and marginalizing climate change skeptics. Those soccer moms and hippies are already highly motivated and don't need to be paid, because they think the world is going to be buried by 20ft of ocean water unless they stop a pipeline or two.