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The Donald Trump thread
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FilipSRB Offline
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Post: #39151
RE: The Donald Trump thread
(09-03-2016 04:50 PM)Shrodax Wrote:  EDIT:
This is the exact same sentiment that Trump himself described back in 1990, which I completely agree with:
Quote:Billionaire New York developer Donald Trump says that legalizing drugs is the only way to win the war against what he considers one of America`s most serious problems.

Trump blamed the country`s drug problems on politicians who ``don`t have any guts`` and enforcement efforts that are ``a joke.`` ``We`re losing badly the war on drugs,`` Trump told 700 people at a luncheon Friday. ``You have to legalize drugs to win that war. You have to take the profit away from these drug czars.``

Trump said tax revenues from a legalized drug trade could be spent to educate the public on the dangers of drug use.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1990-...nt-efforts

I think obviously the first step should be decriminalization just like Portugal did and not jumping straight to legalizing and taxing it.
(This post was last modified: 09-03-2016 06:19 PM by FilipSRB.)
09-03-2016 06:15 PM
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LeoneVolpe Offline
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Post: #39152
RE: The Donald Trump thread
Yeah, I'm still not sold on the whole legalizing drugs argument. I understand the idea behind it, but I don't think that's a position Trump should take now. He's already courting enough controversy, let's just let the Trump Train continue along the track it's on (building the border wall, repealing and replacing Obamacare, negotiating new trade deals, etc.) Trump's been absolutely knocking it out of the park lately...I think he's got this.
(This post was last modified: 09-03-2016 06:51 PM by LeoneVolpe.)
09-03-2016 06:50 PM
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Latinopan Offline
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RE: The Donald Trump thread
(09-03-2016 01:02 PM)kosko Wrote:  I do also agree on the notes. It dumbs him down and a bit and plays up the human hokey side of Trump. He may be a billionaire and successful 1% man be he reads his papers with his fingers modest and slow like any normal human. You could tell he wanted to have his best showing there like any normal human. He looked no different then a dad giving a speech at his daughters skating reception, or a man who is giving a speech at his community board after a award for his hard work or something like that.

Contrast this to Hillary who anytime is around black people panders so hard and starts to try to talk with Black slang and stylings.

Look at his desk

[Image: ew4feej9xgb7cybtaen8.jpg]

He does not have a computer, everything he uses in his office is paper, like a guy from the 50s, for a man with as much money, name, and power as him his office is very modest, he could have a Tony Stark type office but he does not.

Ivanka said in an interview when asked about something she would change about him she replied "his diet", she said he eats just anything. Think about Trump this way, he is one of the first rich guys to openly show his face for his business, many big companies you only know by name but you never see the people at the top, and not the guy whoes last name is the companies name.

What the media love Steve Jobs doing, Trump was doing decades before.

Don Jr said he knew his father was different from other business men when his father would go to constructions sites and spend the day talking to plumbers, welders, trunks drivers, he said the men at the top only go to construction sites for photo-op and would only talk to other big guys, the big bosses, not the guy with paint in his hand.


Don Jr calls his father "blue collar billionaire"

Trump is not pretending to get along with everyday Americans, he has always get along with everyday American.
09-03-2016 07:08 PM
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Post: #39154
RE: The Donald Trump thread
(09-03-2016 06:50 PM)LeoneVolpe Wrote:  Yeah, I'm still not sold on the whole legalizing drugs argument. I understand the idea behind it, but I don't think that's a position Trump should take now. He's already courting enough controversy, let's just let the Trump Train continue along the track it's on (building the border wall, repealing and replacing Obamacare, negotiating new trade deals, etc.) Trump's been absolutely knocking it out of the park lately...I think he's got this.

Agreed. The topic is a landmine and there are solid philosophical and pragmatic arguments against legalizing drugs, all of which I personally agree with.

Theodore Dalrymple Wrote:Don’t Legalize Drugs

Advocates have almost convinced Americans that legalization will remove most of the evil that drugs inflict on society. Don’t believe them.

Theodore Dalrymple
Spring 1997


There is a progression in the minds of men: first the unthinkable becomes thinkable, and then it becomes an orthodoxy whose truth seems so obvious that no one remembers that anyone ever thought differently. This is just what is happening with the idea of legalizing drugs: it has reached the stage when millions of thinking men are agreed that allowing people to take whatever they like is the obvious, indeed only, solution to the social problems that arise from the consumption of drugs.

Man’s desire to take mind-altering substances is as old as society itself—as are attempts to regulate their consumption. If intoxication in one form or another is inevitable, then so is customary or legal restraint upon that intoxication. But no society until our own has had to contend with the ready availability of so many different mind-altering drugs, combined with a citizenry jealous of its right to pursue its own pleasures in its own way.

The arguments in favor of legalizing the use of all narcotic and stimulant drugs are twofold: philosophical and pragmatic. Neither argument is negligible, but both are mistaken, I believe, and both miss the point.

The philosophic argument is that, in a free society, adults should be permitted to do whatever they please, always provided that they are prepared to take the consequences of their own choices and that they cause no direct harm to others. The locus classicus for this point of view is John Stuart Mill’s famous essay On Liberty: “The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of the community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others,” Mill wrote. “His own good, either physical or moral, is not a sufficient warrant.” This radical individualism allows society no part whatever in shaping, determining, or enforcing a moral code: in short, we have nothing in common but our contractual agreement not to interfere with one another as we go about seeking our private pleasures.

In practice, of course, it is exceedingly difficult to make people take all the consequences of their own actions—as they must, if Mill’s great principle is to serve as a philosophical guide to policy. Addiction to, or regular use of, most currently prohibited drugs cannot affect only the person who takes them—and not his spouse, children, neighbors, or employers. No man, except possibly a hermit, is an island; and so it is virtually impossible for Mill’s principle to apply to any human action whatever, let alone shooting up heroin or smoking crack. Such a principle is virtually useless in determining what should or should not be permitted.

Perhaps we ought not be too harsh on Mill’s principle: it’s not clear that anyone has ever thought of a better one. But that is precisely the point. Human affairs cannot be decided by an appeal to an infallible rule, expressible in a few words, whose simple application can decide all cases, including whether drugs should be freely available to the entire adult population. Philosophical fundamentalism is not preferable to the religious variety; and because the desiderata of human life are many, and often in conflict with one another, mere philosophical inconsistency in policy—such as permitting the consumption of alcohol while outlawing cocaine—is not a sufficient argument against that policy. We all value freedom, and we all value order; sometimes we sacrifice freedom for order, and sometimes order for freedom. But once a prohibition has been removed, it is hard to restore, even when the newfound freedom proves to have been ill-conceived and socially disastrous.

Even Mill came to see the limitations of his own principle as a guide for policy and to deny that all pleasures were of equal significance for human existence. It was better, he said, to be Socrates discontented than a fool satisfied. Mill acknowledged that some goals were intrinsically worthier of pursuit than others.
This being the case, not all freedoms are equal, and neither are all limitations of freedom: some are serious and some trivial. The freedom we cherish—or should cherish—is not merely that of satisfying our appetites, whatever they happen to be. We are not Dickensian Harold Skimpoles, exclaiming in protest that “Even the butterflies are free!” We are not children who chafe at restrictions because they are restrictions. And we even recognize the apparent paradox that some limitations to our freedoms have the consequence of making us freer overall. The freest man is not the one who slavishly follows his appetites and desires throughout his life—as all too many of my patients have discovered to their cost.
We are prepared to accept limitations to our freedoms for many reasons, not just that of public order. Take an extreme hypothetical case: public exhibitions of necrophilia are quite rightly not permitted, though on Mill’s principle they should be. A corpse has no interests and cannot be harmed, because it is no longer a person; and no member of the public is harmed if he has agreed to attend such an exhibition.

Our resolve to prohibit such exhibitions would not be altered if we discovered that millions of people wished to attend them or even if we discovered that millions already were attending them illicitly. Our objection is not based upon pragmatic considerations or upon a head count: it is based upon the wrongness of the would-be exhibitions themselves. The fact that the prohibition represents a genuine restriction of our freedom is of no account.

It might be argued that the freedom to choose among a variety of intoxicating substances is a much more important freedom and that millions of people have derived innocent fun from taking stimulants and narcotics. But the consumption of drugs has the effect of reducing men’s freedom by circumscribing the range of their interests. It impairs their ability to pursue more important human aims, such as raising a family and fulfilling civic obligations. Very often it impairs their ability to pursue gainful employment and promotes parasitism. Moreover, far from being expanders of consciousness, most drugs severely limit it. One of the most striking characteristics of drug takers is their intense and tedious self-absorption; and their journeys into inner space are generally forays into inner vacuums. Drug taking is a lazy man’s way of pursuing happiness and wisdom, and the shortcut turns out to be the deadest of dead ends. We lose remarkably little by not being permitted to take drugs.

The idea that freedom is merely the ability to act upon one’s whims is surely very thin and hardly begins to capture the complexities of human existence; a man whose appetite is his law strikes us not as liberated but enslaved. And when such a narrowly conceived freedom is made the touchstone of public policy, a dissolution of society is bound to follow. No culture that makes publicly sanctioned self-indulgence its highest good can long survive: a radical egotism is bound to ensue, in which any limitations upon personal behavior are experienced as infringements of basic rights. Distinctions between the important and the trivial, between the freedom to criticize received ideas and the freedom to take LSD, are precisely the standards that keep societies from barbarism.

So the legalization of drugs cannot be supported by philosophical principle. But if the pragmatic argument in favor of legalization were strong enough, it might overwhelm other objections. It is upon this argument that proponents of legalization rest the larger part of their case.

The argument is that the overwhelming majority of the harm done to society by the consumption of currently illicit drugs is caused not by their pharmacological properties but by their prohibition and the resultant criminal activity that prohibition always calls into being. Simple reflection tells us that a supply invariably grows up to meet a demand; and when the demand is widespread, suppression is useless. Indeed, it is harmful, since—by raising the price of the commodity in question—it raises the profits of middlemen, which gives them an even more powerful incentive to stimulate demand further. The vast profits to be made from cocaine and heroin—which, were it not for their illegality, would be cheap and easily affordable even by the poorest in affluent societies—exert a deeply corrupting effect on producers, distributors, consumers, and law enforcers alike. Besides, it is well known that illegality in itself has attractions for youth already inclined to disaffection. Even many of the harmful physical effects of illicit drugs stem from their illegal status: for example, fluctuations in the purity of heroin bought on the street are responsible for many of the deaths by overdose. If the sale and consumption of such drugs were legalized, consumers would know how much they were taking and thus avoid overdoses.

Moreover, since society already permits the use of some mind-altering substances known to be both addictive and harmful, such as alcohol and nicotine, in prohibiting others it appears hypocritical, arbitrary, and dictatorial. Its hypocrisy, as well as its patent failure to enforce its prohibitions successfully, leads inevitably to a decline in respect for the law as a whole. Thus things fall apart, and the center cannot hold.

It stands to reason, therefore, that all these problems would be resolved at a stroke if everyone were permitted to smoke, swallow, or inject anything he chose. The corruption of the police, the luring of children of 11 and 12 into illegal activities, the making of such vast sums of money by drug dealing that legitimate work seems pointless and silly by comparison, and the turf wars that make poor neighborhoods so exceedingly violent and dangerous, would all cease at once were drug taking to be decriminalized and the supply regulated in the same way as alcohol.

But a certain modesty in the face of an inherently unknowable future is surely advisable. That is why prudence is a political virtue: what stands to reason should happen does not necessarily happen in practice. As Goethe said, all theory (even of the monetarist or free-market variety) is gray, but green springs the golden tree of life. If drugs were legalized, I suspect that the golden tree of life might spring some unpleasant surprises.

It is of course true, but only trivially so, that the present illegality of drugs is the cause of the criminality surrounding their distribution. Likewise, it is the illegality of stealing cars that creates car thieves. In fact, the ultimate cause of all criminality is law. As far as I am aware, no one has ever suggested that law should therefore be abandoned. Moreover, the impossibility of winning the “war” against theft, burglary, robbery, and fraud has never been used as an argument that these categories of crime should be abandoned. And so long as the demand for material goods outstrips supply, people will be tempted to commit criminal acts against the owners of property. This is not an argument, in my view, against private property or in favor of the common ownership of all goods. It does suggest, however, that we shall need a police force for a long time to come.
In any case, there are reasons to doubt whether the crime rate would fall quite as dramatically as advocates of legalization have suggested. Amsterdam, where access to drugs is relatively unproblematic, is among the most violent and squalid cities in Europe. The idea behind crime—of getting rich, or at least richer, quickly and without much effort—is unlikely to disappear once drugs are freely available to all who want them. And it may be that officially sanctioned antisocial behavior—the official lifting of taboos—breeds yet more antisocial behavior, as the “broken windows” theory would suggest.

Having met large numbers of drug dealers in prison, I doubt that they would return to respectable life if the principal article of their commerce were to be legalized. Far from evincing a desire to be reincorporated into the world of regular work, they express a deep contempt for it and regard those who accept the bargain of a fair day’s work for a fair day’s pay as cowards and fools. A life of crime has its attractions for many who would otherwise lead a mundane existence. So long as there is the possibility of a lucrative racket or illegal traffic, such people will find it and extend its scope. Therefore, since even legalizers would hesitate to allow children to take drugs, decriminalization might easily result in dealers turning their attentions to younger and younger children, who—in the permissive atmosphere that even now prevails—have already been inducted into the drug subculture in alarmingly high numbers.

Those who do not deal in drugs but commit crimes to fund their consumption of them are, of course, more numerous than large-scale dealers. And it is true that once opiate addicts, for example, enter a treatment program, which often includes maintenance doses of methadone, the rate at which they commit crimes falls markedly. The drug clinic in my hospital claims an 80 percent reduction in criminal convictions among heroin addicts once they have been stabilized on methadone.

This is impressive, but it is not certain that the results should be generalized. First, the patients are self-selected: they have some motivation to change, otherwise they would not have attended the clinic in the first place. Only a minority of addicts attend, and therefore it is not safe to conclude that, if other addicts were to receive methadone, their criminal activity would similarly diminish.

Second, a decline in convictions is not necessarily the same as a decline in criminal acts. If methadone stabilizes an addict’s life, he may become a more efficient, harder-to-catch criminal. Moreover, when the police in our city do catch an addict, they are less likely to prosecute him if he can prove that he is undergoing anything remotely resembling psychiatric treatment. They return him directly to his doctor. Having once had a psychiatric consultation is an all-purpose alibi for a robber or a burglar; the police, who do not want to fill in the 40-plus forms it now takes to charge anyone with anything in England, consider a single contact with a psychiatrist sufficient to deprive anyone of legal responsibility for crime forever.

Third, the rate of criminal activity among those drug addicts who receive methadone from the clinic, though reduced, remains very high. The deputy director of the clinic estimates that the number of criminal acts committed by his average patient (as judged by self-report) was 250 per year before entering treatment and 50 afterward. It may well be that the real difference is considerably less than this, because the patients have an incentive to exaggerate it to secure the continuation of their methadone. But clearly, opiate addicts who receive their drugs legally and free of charge continue to commit large numbers of crimes. In my clinics in prison, I see numerous prisoners who were on methadone when they committed the crime for which they are incarcerated.

Why do addicts given their drug free of charge continue to commit crimes? Some addicts, of course, continue to take drugs other than those prescribed and have to fund their consumption of them. So long as any restriction whatever regulates the consumption of drugs, many addicts will seek them illicitly, regardless of what they receive legally. In addition, the drugs themselves exert a long-term effect on a person’s ability to earn a living and severely limit rather than expand his horizons and mental repertoire. They sap the will or the ability of an addict to make long-term plans. While drugs are the focus of an addict’s life, they are not all he needs to live, and many addicts thus continue to procure the rest of what they need by criminal means.

For the proposed legalization of drugs to have its much vaunted beneficial effect on the rate of criminality, such drugs would have to be both cheap and readily available. The legalizers assume that there is a natural limit to the demand for these drugs, and that if their consumption were legalized, the demand would not increase substantially. Those psychologically unstable persons currently taking drugs would continue to do so, with the necessity to commit crimes removed, while psychologically stabler people (such as you and I and our children) would not be enticed to take drugs by their new legal status and cheapness. But price and availability, I need hardly say, exert a profound effect on consumption: the cheaper alcohol becomes, for example, the more of it is consumed, at least within quite wide limits.

I have personal experience of this effect. I once worked as a doctor on a British government aid project to Africa. We were building a road through remote African bush. The contract stipulated that the construction company could import, free of all taxes, alcoholic drinks from the United Kingdom. These drinks the company then sold to its British workers at cost, in the local currency at the official exchange rate, which was approximately one-sixth the black-market rate. A liter bottle of gin thus cost less than a dollar and could be sold on the open market for almost ten dollars. So it was theoretically possible to remain dead drunk for several years for an initial outlay of less than a dollar.

Of course, the necessity to go to work somewhat limited the workers’ consumption of alcohol. Nevertheless, drunkenness among them far outstripped anything I have ever seen, before or since. I discovered that, when alcohol is effectively free of charge, a fifth of British construction workers will regularly go to bed so drunk that they are incontinent both of urine and feces. I remember one man who very rarely got as far as his bed at night: he fell asleep in the lavatory, where he was usually found the next morning. Half the men shook in the mornings and resorted to the hair of the dog to steady their hands before they drove their bulldozers and other heavy machines (which they frequently wrecked, at enormous expense to the British taxpayer); hangovers were universal. The men were either drunk or hung over for months on end.

Sure, construction workers are notoriously liable to drink heavily, but in these circumstances even formerly moderate drinkers turned alcoholic and eventually suffered from delirium tremens. The heavy drinking occurred not because of the isolation of the African bush: not only did the company provide sports facilities for its workers, but there were many other ways to occupy oneself there. Other groups of workers in the bush whom I visited, who did not have the same rights of importation of alcoholic drink but had to purchase it at normal prices, were not nearly as drunk. And when the company asked its workers what it could do to improve their conditions, they unanimously asked for a further reduction in the price of alcohol, because they could think of nothing else to ask for.

The conclusion was inescapable: that a susceptible population had responded to the low price of alcohol, and the lack of other effective restraints upon its consumption, by drinking destructively large quantities of it. The health of many men suffered as a consequence, as did their capacity for work; and they gained a well-deserved local reputation for reprehensible, violent, antisocial behavior.
It is therefore perfectly possible that the demand for drugs, including opiates, would rise dramatically were their price to fall and their availability to increase. And if it is true that the consumption of these drugs in itself predisposes to criminal behavior (as data from our clinic suggest), it is also possible that the effect on the rate of criminality of this rise in consumption would swamp the decrease that resulted from decriminalization. We would have just as much crime in aggregate as before, but many more addicts.

The intermediate position on drug legalization, such as that espoused by Ethan Nadelmann, director of the Lindesmith Center, a drug policy research institute sponsored by financier George Soros, is emphatically not the answer to drug-related crime. This view holds that it should be easy for addicts to receive opiate drugs from doctors, either free or at cost, and that they should receive them in municipal injecting rooms, such as now exist in Zurich. But just look at Liverpool, where 2,000 people of a population of 600,000 receive official prescriptions for methadone: this once proud and prosperous city is still the world capital of drug-motivated burglary, according to the police and independent researchers.

Of course, many addicts in Liverpool are not yet on methadone, because the clinics are insufficient in number to deal with the demand. If the city expended more money on clinics, perhaps the number of addicts in treatment could be increased five- or tenfold. But would that solve the problem of burglary in Liverpool? No, because the profits to be made from selling illicit opiates would still be large: dealers would therefore make efforts to expand into parts of the population hitherto relatively untouched, in order to protect their profits. The new addicts would still burgle to feed their habits. Yet more clinics dispensing yet more methadone would then be needed. In fact Britain, which has had a relatively liberal approach to the prescribing of opiate drugs to addicts since 1928 (I myself have prescribed heroin to addicts), has seen an explosive increase in addiction to opiates and all the evils associated with it since the 1960s, despite that liberal policy. A few hundred have become more than a hundred thousand.

At the heart of Nadelmann’s position, then, is an evasion. The legal and liberal provision of drugs for people who are already addicted to them will not reduce the economic benefits to dealers of pushing these drugs, at least until the entire susceptible population is addicted and in a treatment program. So long as there are addicts who have to resort to the black market for their drugs, there will be drug-associated crime. Nadelmann assumes that the number of potential addicts wouldn’t soar under considerably more liberal drug laws. I can’t muster such Panglossian optimism.

The problem of reducing the amount of crime committed by individual addicts is emphatically not the same as the problem of reducing the amount of crime committed by addicts as a whole. I can illustrate what I mean by an analogy: it is often claimed that prison does not work because many prisoners are recidivists who, by definition, failed to be deterred from further wrongdoing by their last prison sentence. But does any sensible person believe that the abolition of prisons in their entirety would not reduce the numbers of the law-abiding? The murder rate in New York and the rate of drunken driving in Britain have not been reduced by a sudden upsurge in the love of humanity, but by the effective threat of punishment. An institution such as prison can work for society even if it does not work for an individual.

The situation could be very much worse than I have suggested hitherto, however, if we legalized the consumption of drugs other than opiates. So far, I have considered only opiates, which exert a generally tranquilizing effect. If opiate addicts commit crimes even when they receive their drugs free of charge, it is because they are unable to meet their other needs any other way; but there are, unfortunately, drugs whose consumption directly leads to violence because of their psychopharmacological properties and not merely because of the criminality associated with their distribution. Stimulant drugs such as crack cocaine provoke paranoia, increase aggression, and promote violence. Much of this violence takes place in the home, as the relatives of crack takers will testify. It is something I know from personal acquaintance by working in the emergency room and in the wards of our hospital. Only someone who has not been assaulted by drug takers rendered psychotic by their drug could view with equanimity the prospect of the further spread of the abuse of stimulants.

And no one should underestimate the possibility that the use of stimulant drugs could spread very much wider, and become far more general, than it is now, if restraints on their use were relaxed. The importation of the mildly stimulant khat is legal in Britain, and a large proportion of the community of Somali refugees there devotes its entire life to chewing the leaves that contain the stimulant, miring these refugees in far worse poverty than they would otherwise experience. The reason that the khat habit has not spread to the rest of the population is that it takes an entire day’s chewing of disgustingly bitter leaves to gain the comparatively mild pharmacological effect. The point is, however, that once the use of a stimulant becomes culturally acceptable and normal, it can easily become so general as to exert devastating social effects. And the kinds of stimulants on offer in Western cities—cocaine, crack, amphetamines—are vastly more attractive than khat.

In claiming that prohibition, not the drugs themselves, is the problem, Nadelmann and many others—even policemen—have said that “the war on drugs is lost.” But to demand a yes or no answer to the question “Is the war against drugs being won?” is like demanding a yes or no answer to the question “Have you stopped beating your wife yet?” Never can an unimaginative and fundamentally stupid metaphor have exerted a more baleful effect upon proper thought.

Let us ask whether medicine is winning the war against death. The answer is obviously no, it isn’t winning: the one fundamental rule of human existence remains, unfortunately, one man one death. And this is despite the fact that 14 percent of the gross domestic product of the United States (to say nothing of the efforts of other countries) goes into the fight against death. Was ever a war more expensively lost? Let us then abolish medical schools, hospitals, and departments of public health. If every man has to die, it doesn’t matter very much when he does so.

If the war against drugs is lost, then so are the wars against theft, speeding, incest, fraud, rape, murder, arson, and illegal parking. Few, if any, such wars are winnable. So let us all do anything we choose.

Even the legalizers’ argument that permitting the purchase and use of drugs as freely as Milton Friedman suggests will necessarily result in less governmental and other official interference in our lives doesn’t stand up. To the contrary, if the use of narcotics and stimulants were to become virtually universal, as is by no means impossible, the number of situations in which compulsory checks upon people would have to be carried out, for reasons of public safety, would increase enormously. Pharmacies, banks, schools, hospitals—indeed, all organizations dealing with the public—might feel obliged to check regularly and randomly on the drug consumption of their employees. The general use of such drugs would increase the locus standi of innumerable agencies, public and private, to interfere in our lives; and freedom from interference, far from having increased, would have drastically shrunk.

The present situation is bad, undoubtedly; but few are the situations so bad that they cannot be made worse by a wrong policy decision.

The extreme intellectual elegance of the proposal to legalize the distribution and consumption of drugs, touted as the solution to so many problems at once (AIDS, crime, overcrowding in the prisons, and even the attractiveness of drugs to foolish young people) should give rise to skepticism. Social problems are not usually like that. Analogies with the Prohibition era, often drawn by those who would legalize drugs, are false and inexact: it is one thing to attempt to ban a substance that has been in customary use for centuries by at least nine-tenths of the adult population, and quite another to retain a ban on substances that are still not in customary use, in an attempt to ensure that they never do become customary. Surely we have already slid down enough slippery slopes in the last 30 years without looking for more such slopes to slide down.

http://www.city-journal.org/html/don%E2%...11758.html

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09-03-2016 07:22 PM
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RE: The Donald Trump thread
Trump would score major points with the Bern outs if he promised to de-schedule marijuana and leave it to the states for legalization.

There's no clever way for Hillary to spin it since most democrats relate to the free love pot smoking hippies. It would be a non-issue.

Leave the harder stuff up for enforcement so the police unions have something to justify their bloated budgets for.
09-03-2016 07:53 PM
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RE: The Donald Trump thread
Ghost Tiger,

That's the best anti-legalization article I've ever read. I got blocked on Twitter by telling a drug-legalization guy, "If you voluntarily make yourself less able to fulfill the needs of your community, why should your community voluntarily meet your needs?"

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09-03-2016 08:19 PM
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RE: The Donald Trump thread
Decriminalization for the simple fact that treating marijuana recreational possession/use as a crime ties up so much law enforcement, prosecutorial, and correctional resources that could be spent more usefully or redirected in a manner more meaningful to society, i.e. creating a tiered penal system of prisons for punishment and segregation of hardened offenders and local 'correctional facilities' to rehabilitate and steer wayward citizens convicted of minor offenses towards of a path of useful contribution along with local 'jails' to throw in drunks, angry spouses, and otherwise disruptive folks in for a night to 'sleep it off' without career-ruining adjudications.

Also, it impedes the criminal justice corporation from continuing to profit off low-level, mostly victimless crimes (DWSLR, marijuana posession, public intoxication, most assault/batteries where two parties are fighting voluntarily).

But I digress...
(This post was last modified: 09-03-2016 08:23 PM by dicknixon72.)
09-03-2016 08:20 PM
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Post: #39158
RE: The Donald Trump thread
Dicknixon,

Ask me how I know you didn't read the article Ghost Tiger posted.

James Comey is a Nut-job cuck
09-03-2016 08:38 PM
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Post: #39159
RE: The Donald Trump thread
(09-03-2016 08:38 PM)MMX2010 Wrote:  Dicknixon,

Ask me how I know you didn't read the article Ghost Tiger posted.

Did you?

That article is about legalizing all drugs and spends more time talking about heroine, crack, opiates, and methadone than marijuana (which it doesn't even mention).

Weed is less inhibiting, less physically harmful, and less addictive than alcohol. The only reasons it is illegal are political and financial. Most of the issues in that article don't apply to marijuana, nor do most pro-marijuana voters think heroin and crack should be legal.
09-03-2016 09:10 PM
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Post: #39160
RE: The Donald Trump thread
That article is filled to the brim with faulty analogies, but let's try not to get distracted too much.

Talking about criminal justice reform, like passing the REDEEM Act, reforming how mandatory minimum sentences are carried out (often many decades for non-violent offenses, for example the disparity in the sentence between crack use and ordinary cocaine use), and ending the federal war on drugs, or at least moving drug policy away from the Controlled Substances Act, would basically take away completely the Clinton camp's "racist" card, because nothing would be more beneficial to minority communities than such an approach. It would automatically make Trump friendlier to minority communities policy wise than Hillary Clinton. I can just imagine the talking heads exploding if something like that were done. The cognitive dissonance would be shit the likes of which you've never seen. I can easily imagine them saying something like "Trump's just doing this to go easier on white suburban kids who do drugs while using minority outreach as fodder."

You head would spin. Believe me.

I hope Trump's people read this forum, as I suspect some might, and that this message gets to them.

With this whole thing, think systems, not goals.

Speaking of Scott Adams, does anyone have his CNN interview from yesterday? Can't find it at the moment.

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(This post was last modified: 09-03-2016 09:42 PM by Libertas.)
09-03-2016 09:37 PM
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Post: #39161
RE: The Donald Trump thread
oh god... why Mike, why!

http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-tr...nce-2016-9

Quote:MIKE PENCE: 'Donald Trump and I are both going to release our tax returns'

Mike Pence said he and Donald Trump will publish their tax returns.

In an interview on NBC's "Meet the Press" focusing on the excerpts of Hillary Clinton's FBI interview that were published this week, the Republican vice-presidential candidate said "Donald Trump and I are both going to release our tax returns."

He added that he would publish his own next week.

Would love to see the context for that, guess we will tomorrow. Why even bring up e-mails, let alone say they're getting released? Unless Pence and Trump worked that out ahead of time, seems like a dumb thing to say.

I do like the idea of 4th dimensional chess-playing Trump, who's been preparing for a presidential run since 2012 and was paying taxes/giving charitable contributions/doing everything above board since then on purpose.

So, in a brilliant turn from 2012 where Romney's tax release hurt him, people frothing at the mouth about Trump's taxes finally get to see them and see there's... nothing there. Oh, they'd start asking for pre-2012 tax releases at that point, or find some other non-story to drive into the ground again (Trump University again, maybe) but would be a great win and take the wind out of their sails, especially since it's been the #1 talking point against him for most of the campaign. And of course, he'd release his returns at a press conference, nothing the number of days since Hillary's last one. Maybe voluntarily release his health records at the same time as his tax records just to further fuck with her/drive the narrative in his direction. That'd be nice...


In any case, there's no way Trump releases his taxes with the "IRS audit" still in effect, and with his talking shit about Romney doing the same thing 4 years ago, unless everything was beyond reproach. I'm assuming Pence has a "after his audit's over" addendum which was purposefully cut off from this clickbait-generating headline.
09-04-2016 01:04 AM
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Post: #39162
RE: The Donald Trump thread
Lack of faith in drug legalization comes from a violence-minded tunnel vision view of how we maintain social order: that it's always up to some policeman threatening death if you do something disagreeable.

There are plenty of other ways. Social ostracism, barring from employment, coupled with no welfare and full gun rights for all, they'd slowly die out from starvation or being shot during attempted crimes. Coupled with full drug legalization, there would be no such thing as wealthy drug dealers, druggos would be uncool pennyless social scum which every family and community vigorously socially policed out of existence.

Before drugs became illegal (very recent), they were just considered tacky. Now it's cool and exclusive.

Society has plenty of other mechanisms for maintaining social order than just relying on a policeman and his gun.
(This post was last modified: 09-04-2016 01:24 AM by Phoenix.)
09-04-2016 01:22 AM
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Post: #39163
RE: The Donald Trump thread
(09-03-2016 08:19 PM)MMX2010 Wrote:  Ghost Tiger,

That's the best anti-legalization article I've ever read. I got blocked on Twitter by telling a drug-legalization guy, "If you voluntarily make yourself less able to fulfill the needs of your community, why should your community voluntarily meet your needs?"

Glad you liked it. Dalrymple is a great writer, and that's a pseudonym by the way. His real name is Anthony Daniels and he's a retired British psychiatrist. I've read a lot of his books which are basically collections of essays on the decline of our culture. Note that the article I posted was written in 1997. When I read that, it was the first time I had ever heard of George Soros. It was long before Glenn Beck or Alex Jones started talking about him. Drug legalization is a cornerstone of Soros' destructive plans.

Cheers

Kaotic Wrote:Kurt Eichenwald is a tentacle anime porn watching pedophile cuck.
09-04-2016 02:35 AM
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Post: #39164
RE: The Donald Trump thread
(09-03-2016 07:22 PM)Ghost Tiger Wrote:  
(09-03-2016 06:50 PM)LeoneVolpe Wrote:  Yeah, I'm still not sold on the whole legalizing drugs argument. I understand the idea behind it, but I don't think that's a position Trump should take now. He's already courting enough controversy, let's just let the Trump Train continue along the track it's on (building the border wall, repealing and replacing Obamacare, negotiating new trade deals, etc.) Trump's been absolutely knocking it out of the park lately...I think he's got this.

Agreed. The topic is a landmine and there are solid philosophical and pragmatic arguments against legalizing drugs, all of which I personally agree with.

Theodore Dalrymple Wrote:Don’t Legalize Drugs

Advocates have almost convinced Americans that legalization will remove most of the evil that drugs inflict on society. Don’t believe them.

Theodore Dalrymple
Spring 1997


There is a progression in the minds of men: first the unthinkable becomes thinkable, and then it becomes an orthodoxy whose truth seems so obvious that no one remembers that anyone ever thought differently...
etc etc etc
...Surely we have already slid down enough slippery slopes in the last 30 years without looking for more such slopes to slide down.

http://www.city-journal.org/html/don%E2%...11758.html

All pointless fluff when you take into consideration that the vast body of federal thugs regulating drug use in America are the same ones importing the illicit drugs as fast as they can fly them over the border in official "shall not be searched" military aircraft.

But it's profitable for the federal scumbags involved, so regardless of whether drugs are bad, mmmkay, they're never going to disappear, mmmkay, because the feds flood the ghetto with drugs on one end, mmmkay, and they tax the citizen through the nose to build the police state they claim is in response to the problem they created in the first place, mmmkay?

It's a big joke wherein supporters of federal drug law enforcement are the punch line and the elite are laughing themselves all the way to the bank.
09-04-2016 04:54 AM
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Post: #39165
RE: The Donald Trump thread
From the T to the P



09-04-2016 05:18 AM
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Post: #39166
RE: The Donald Trump thread
(09-02-2016 11:38 PM)Rush87 Wrote:  
(09-02-2016 11:31 PM)Latinopan Wrote:  Trump is having a strong weekend right after a perfect week.

Live now

I want the campaign to release Trump diet and sleep schedule, HOLLY SHIT, this a 70 years old man giving speeches for hours standing day after day, press conferences, attacked from every side without stopping.

Even young men would not handle the amount of stress, and pressure, even something as simple as the voice would be showing sings of tiresome.

Yet, Trump is as strong or stronger than the day he launched his campaign.

How many calories is he taking every day?
How many calories is he burning every day?
How many hour is he sleeping?


We need datasheet on his routine.

Aspirin, KFC, steak and bacon. The man eats whatever he wants. He just has incredible drive and determination.

He also has a hot supermodel wife and a loving family for support. I doubt Trump would have that insane amount of drive and determination if it weren't for them.
09-04-2016 06:23 AM
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Post: #39167
RE: The Donald Trump thread
(09-04-2016 06:23 AM)Khan Wrote:  
(09-02-2016 11:38 PM)Rush87 Wrote:  
(09-02-2016 11:31 PM)Latinopan Wrote:  Trump is having a strong weekend right after a perfect week.

Live now

I want the campaign to release Trump diet and sleep schedule, HOLLY SHIT, this a 70 years old man giving speeches for hours standing day after day, press conferences, attacked from every side without stopping.

Even young men would not handle the amount of stress, and pressure, even something as simple as the voice would be showing sings of tiresome.

Yet, Trump is as strong or stronger than the day he launched his campaign.

How many calories is he taking every day?
How many calories is he burning every day?
How many hour is he sleeping?


We need datasheet on his routine.

Aspirin, KFC, steak and bacon. The man eats whatever he wants. He just has incredible drive and determination.

He also has a hot supermodel wife and a loving family for support. I doubt Trump would have that insane amount of drive and determination if it weren't for them.

Compare Trump's personal life to the emptiness of Clinton's. She has a husband who can't stand her and a daughter who is her husband's daughter in name only. The only thing that drives Clinton is her insane ambition.
09-04-2016 08:37 AM
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Post: #39168
RE: The Donald Trump thread
(09-04-2016 06:23 AM)Khan Wrote:  
(09-02-2016 11:38 PM)Rush87 Wrote:  
(09-02-2016 11:31 PM)Latinopan Wrote:  Trump is having a strong weekend right after a perfect week.

Live now

I want the campaign to release Trump diet and sleep schedule, HOLLY SHIT, this a 70 years old man giving speeches for hours standing day after day, press conferences, attacked from every side without stopping.

Even young men would not handle the amount of stress, and pressure, even something as simple as the voice would be showing sings of tiresome.

Yet, Trump is as strong or stronger than the day he launched his campaign.

How many calories is he taking every day?
How many calories is he burning every day?
How many hour is he sleeping?


We need datasheet on his routine.

Aspirin, KFC, steak and bacon. The man eats whatever he wants. He just has incredible drive and determination.

He also has a hot supermodel wife and a loving family for support. I doubt Trump would have that insane amount of drive and determination if it weren't for them.

A shit personal life really sucks the business performance out of you. I remember once being on a skype call with this client and my hot wife walked in the office in short shorts and gave me and ice cream cone, and then left. The client was like "Did that really just happen?" I replied "yes, this is why I work from home" I don't mind working 12 hours a day with a supportive family.

People who are genuinely supportive of you and let you relax. Hillary has to get done with work, change her depends and then scheme against every one of the personal enemies she has in her midst. Bill hates her, Huma won't give up the pussy, her servants hate her and I can guarantee Chelsea is a cunt.

looking for a new signature.
09-04-2016 09:55 AM
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Post: #39169
RE: The Donald Trump thread
Phoenix,

It's more than a little ironic that you're calling for social shaming in a highly diverse (politically, culturally, racially) society. Social shaming only works in socially homogenous societies. Without such homogeneity, the only thing that might unify people is objective truth, but the objective truth is that drugs reduce one's cognitive ability and weakens one's physical body.

James Comey is a Nut-job cuck
09-04-2016 11:38 AM
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Post: #39170
RE: The Donald Trump thread
(09-04-2016 11:38 AM)MMX2010 Wrote:  Phoenix,

It's more than a little ironic that you're calling for social shaming in a highly diverse (politically, culturally, racially) society. Social shaming only works in socially homogenous societies (except for fat/slut shaming). Without such homogeneity, the only thing that might unify people is objective truth, but the objective truth is that drugs reduce one's cognitive ability and weakens one's physical body.


Fixed that for you.

When people say I'm wrong, that's when I know I'm the most right. - Samseau
09-04-2016 12:52 PM
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Post: #39171
RE: The Donald Trump thread
Do congressmen/politicians- both locally and federally- get drug tested? If not, then they should. Any drug that is illegal to use, they should be tested for, and even if legal on prescription, that information should be made public and certainly cross referenced. There can be no privacy concern because the employer of the government agent is the public, and the employer has a right to know if their employee is unable to do his/her job [the official obviously has to sign a waiver prior to running for office]. It is only fair. I can't work a simple corporate job without a drug test.

You don't get there till you get there
09-04-2016 01:06 PM
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Post: #39172
RE: The Donald Trump thread
Liberal admits they are running out of ammunition.

Is Trump winning because liberals are too MEAN? 'Crying wolf' over previous candidates has made the billionaire difficult to attack, it is claimed

-Romney was derided as a 'racist' and a 'bigot' during the 2012 election

-Similar attacks have been leveled against almost all of his predecessors

-It means when a candidate like Trump comes along there are no words left to attack him with, it is claimed


Frank Bruni, of the New York Times, argues that because pundits have been too eager to use labels such as 'racist' about moderate Republican candidates, when an outspoken one such as Trump appears, they have no words left to attack him with.

In an August column Krugman wondered why 'not-crazy Republicans' are rallying around Trump 'as if he is a normal candidate.'

Markowicz writes: 'What makes Donald Trump normal to so many is that they’ve heard all the hysteria from people like Krugman before.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...aimed.html
(This post was last modified: 09-04-2016 01:15 PM by Latinopan.)
09-04-2016 01:15 PM
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Post: #39173
RE: The Donald Trump thread
Fisto,

Fat shaming plays upon the universally held (by reasonable people) desire to have a long, healthy life.

Both fat shaming and slut shaming play upon the universally held (by reasonable people) desire to have healthy, happy children.

Drug shaming plays upon neither of those, except maybe the first. Except that many more drug users insist that they're reasonably healthy enough. So social shaming won't work against drug users.

James Comey is a Nut-job cuck
09-04-2016 01:25 PM
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Post: #39174
RE: The Donald Trump thread
Trump shouldn't even touch something as complex as drug reform while running for president. Only should with a carefully thought out plan that would be effective once in office.

There is a lot of misinformation out there about "non-violent" drug offenders. A pistol, sack and burner phone isn't called the drug dealer starter kit for no reason. The crack cocaine law changed recently as well. People ended up released early from prison due to the unfair length of sentence between crack and powder.

What would work is eliminating the ability to make a huge profit from selling drugs. Once that's gone the allure is gone.
09-04-2016 01:48 PM
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Post: #39175
RE: The Donald Trump thread
What in the name of Fuck is this question:




I wish Dr Carson was more of a combative motherfucker, he could have lit up (((Wallace))) real bad for that loaded BS question.

Trump had a nice stroll in Dr Carson's old neighborhood, met the new residents and saw his childhood home.
[Image: AP-16247610675559-1.jpg]
This was probably a really cool moment for Trump: a good, loyal buddy showing him the home he grew up in. A true American success story - some kid from a poor street in Detroit becoming a world renowned paediatric neurosurgeon. Trump and Carson grew up under wildly different circumstances but are bonded by the fact that they both made it to the top in their respective fields, and are trying to give back by entering politics after success in the private sector. But Wallace sees it as Trump using Carson as a prop. Don't these scummy media types have even a basic understanding of humanity? I guess I don't even need to ask that anymore.

I like how there was a bit of an uproar that a "super biased right winger" FOX personality will be a debate moderator, but these people don't even realize that Wallace is a true piece of shit liberal cocksucker who would fit in finely at any other degenerate leftist media company.
09-04-2016 01:49 PM
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