Post: #1

As a preface I ask this on behalf of a friend [My Closest Friend] who I have recommended to this forum. He is a man who has achieved the apex of women, and yet nothing in the sense of true achievement. I have contemplated the deep forum but this is a broad issue...

He posed as a thought experiment [Although I believe every thought experiment holds an element of truth]: What is the point of everything? What would be the difference between ending things today and continuing life as it is…

The women, the commercial goods, the real estate… What is the value? What does it achieve? Does the happiness you bring to a few justify the reality you endure over a lifetime?

I have no answer to this question so I open it to the forum. What is your motivation to keep on keeping on?

Post: #2

I have never married, have no family and no hope of having a family. My career is over, there is no advancement for me. So, I'm just trying to save up and get the logistics organized so I can go sailing. I'm looking forward to spending weeks at a time by myself in the middle of the ocean.

Post: #3

The purpose of life as I see it.
1. Live life in pursuit of a specific goal. Live humbly for your cause and share it only with ultimate allies.
2. Mastery of the arts of persuasion, mindset, motivation, and force of will (the subsets of Game).
3. Raise children with as traditional a woman as possible. Take all precautions. Raise the children as well as possible.
4. Be strong, committed, confident and active. And whatever else the situation requires.
5. Be prepared enough to ensure the survival of yourself and your family in the event of cataclysm.

Post: #4

Tell him all those thoughts stem from not having a kid.

Never met a father who muttered that crap.

/thread

Post: #5

Conquering as many things as you possibly can. Building an empire than outlives you. Having a big family that carries on the empire you created. Helping as many people, and creating as much value as I possibly can. To be remembered.

As humans, we have the gift (and curse) to believe that our existence "means something" and that we are any different than any other animal out there. We also have the knowledge that we will one day die. Thousands of years ago, we would simply be existing to survive on a daily basis, hunting, defending ourselves, and reproducing.

We're lucky to be in a time that all our basic needs are essentially covered and we have to climb up Maslow's hierarchy. That's why I see so many depressed people, because they don't know how grateful they should be that they don't have to run from tigers and hunt and forage to survive.

Post: #6

The meaning of life is the meaning itself. Life. Someone should take your head and put it below water. Then you will get the meaning of your life. Pass on your genes its the purpose. Of course humans think about so much stuff, they need a purpose, a name, a goal. Thats right and can drive you. Today most of use are not forced to struggle to survive or follow the orders of a lord or the person that is the most violent. So we can think about what creates joy, how we can develop, what moments and experiences make us feel alive.

Many people lose the eye for the simple things. A walk in the nature, run till you can't any more, mess yourself in something that push you to the limit. Sometimes the walk at the edge is the most exiting and this I guess is a problem of the modern world. Everything is organised, rules and predictable. Where is the risk? Life is about to dare and thats what many people forgot as well.

Post: #7

(06-22-2016 01:31 PM)Rush87 Wrote:  He posed as a thought experiment [Although I believe every thought experiment holds an element of truth]: What is the point of everything?
...

You/he think there is only ONE TRUE point? ONE all answering purpose?

Sorry mate. Life is a random grabasstic cluster fuck. Anyone's "purpose" is nothing more than that person's attempt to put the chaos that is life, into some semblance of order that makes sense to THEM and them alone.

Societies construct cultures to guide, laws to restrict, and infrastructures to build. But "purpose" is a construct of the individuals making up the society. (Well, unless you're a bee, or an ant.)

Tell your friend to ask the guy in the mirror. He's the only one who can answer the question.

Post: #8

How do I keep on keeping on?

You know what man. I fucking love my life.

And most war veterans will never say that. I wake up excited everyday.

If you want to know why, I'll try to sit down and write why, but it's going to go against most of things that you read here.

Post: #9

(06-22-2016 01:47 PM)Phoenix Wrote:  Tell him all those thoughts stem from not having a kid.

Never met a father who muttered that crap.

/thread

Bingo.

Legacy.

Post: #10

(06-22-2016 01:36 PM)chicane Wrote:  I have never married, have no family and no hope of having a family. My career is over, there is no advancement for me. So, I'm just trying to save up and get the logistics organized so I can go sailing. I'm looking forward to spending weeks at a time by myself in the middle of the ocean....and swimming 100k per day

Post: #11

Why must life have a single 'purpose'?

The use of your life is its meaning. This sort of pontificating comes about from time spent dwelling on the purely psychological. In a sense, it is the capacity for abstract thought which poses the real danger to you finding purpose. If you stop and really think on it, I suspect you will find that there is an inherent thinness to the question you are asking.

To illustrate: if you think abstractly (or daydream) about fucking a beautiful girl you've never been with, however vivid your imagination, however intense your desire to indulge in certain depravities with her, it is inherently so much less satisfying, so much less substantial, than actually doing the fucking - the tastes, the smells, the idiosyncrasies, the funny faces that girl might actually pull when you give her 'the shocker', the sight of her impossibly round buttocks spread open before you as you thrust away at her with gay abandon - the productive scheming involved in adding another odalisque to your seraglio. When you are engaged in this, in the world around you, all questions of purpose fall away, there is only the intensely lived experience. It is only when you retreat into your mind and start twirling your abstractions around that these questions arise.

One should, I think, take an interest in the many wonderful things that are everywhere around us. In so applying ourselves, we live a rich, varied, and fulfilled life. To pass this on, to help others live similar lives, is a great good - whether these people be friends or your children (children themselves offering you a unique, rich experience that for must of us is intensely desirable). If you fill your days in such a manner, I don't think you will reach the end of the day wondering about your life's purpose. I think you will quickly find that you are fulfilled, genuinely so, and that abstract notions of 'meaning' fall away in the face of action.

Post: #12

(06-22-2016 01:47 PM)Phoenix Wrote:  Tell him all those thoughts stem from not having a kid.

Never met a father who muttered that crap.

/thread

Post: #13

(06-22-2016 01:31 PM)Rush87 Wrote:  What is your motivation to keep on keeping on?

Living.

All else is dramatic over-complication.

Post: #14

(06-22-2016 01:49 PM)TheFinalEpic Wrote:  Conquering as many things as you possibly can. Building an empire than outlives you. Having a big family that carries on the empire you created. Helping as many people, and creating as much value as I possibly can. To be remembered.

As humans, we have the gift (and curse) to believe that our existence "means something" and that we are any different than any other animal out there. We also have the knowledge that we will one day die. Thousands of years ago, we would simply be existing to survive on a daily basis, hunting, defending ourselves, and reproducing.

We're lucky to be in a time that all our basic needs are essentially covered and we have to climb up Maslow's hierarchy. That's why I see so many depressed people, because they don't know how grateful they should be that they don't have to run from tigers and hunt and forage to survive.

If you're depressed because you don't have the latest gadget or the newest car then I agree that's pretty silly. And you're right not having to run from things that want to eat you is a big plus. Of course there is such a thing as clinical depression which is a mental illness and very real and different from what I suspect most people consider depression which is really nothing more than angst and reality not conforming to how you think it should be. Real depression is a chemical imbalance in the brain that can make living life a living hell, doesn't matter if you're rich,successful with women, etc. you still find it hard to even get out of bed in the morning.

Post: #15

The historian and philosopher Will Durant wrote a very good book on this subject. It's called "The Meaning Of Life."

The premise of the book this.

He wrote this letter to about 50 famous contemporaries from many different fields (art, sports, literature, politics, etc.). This was in the 1920s.


Durant's Letter To Famous Contemporaries:


"Dear ________:

Will you interrupt your work for a moment and play the game of philosophy with me?

"I am attempting to face a question which our generation, perhaps more than any, seems always ready to ask and never able to answer -- What is the meaning or worth of human life? Heretofore this question has been dealt with chiefly by theorists, from Ikhnaton and Lao-tse to Bergson and Spengler.

"The result has been a kind of intellectual suicide: thought, by its very development, seems to have destroyed the value and significance of life. The growth and spread of knowledge, for which so many idealists and reformers prayed, has resulted in a disillusionment which has almost broken the spirit of our race.

"Astronomers have told us that human affairs constitute but a moment in the trajectory of a star; geologists have told us that civilization is but a precarious interlude between ice ages; biologists have told us that all life is war, a struggle for existence among individuals, groups, nations, alliances, and species; historians have told us that 'progress' is a delusion, whose glory ends in inevitable decay; psychologists have told us that the will and the self are the helpless instruments of heredity and environment, and that the once incorruptible soul is but a transient incandescence of the brain.

"The Industrial Revolution has destroyed the home, and the discovery of contraceptives is destroying the family, the old morality, and perhaps (through the sterility of the intelligent) the race. Love is analyzed into a physical congestion, and marriage becomes a temporary physiological convenience slightly superior to promiscuity. Democracy has degenerated into such corruption as only Milo's Rome knew; and our youthful dreams of a socialist Utopia disappear as we see, day after day, the inexhaustible acquisitiveness of men.

"Every invention strengthens the strong and weakens the weak; every new mechanism displaces men, and multiplies the horror of war. God, who was once the consolation of our brief life, and our refuge in bereavement and suffering, has apparently vanished from the scene; no telescope, no microscope discovers him. Life has become, in that total perspective which is philosophy, a fitful pullulation of human insects on the earth, a planetary eczema that may soon be cured; nothing is certain in it except defeat and death -- a sleep from which, it seems, there is no awakening.

"We are driven to conclude that the greatest mistake in human history was the discovery of 'truth.' It has not made us free, except from delusions that comforted us and restraints that preserved us. It has not made us happy, for truth is not beautiful, and did not deserve to be so passionately chased. As we look on it now we wonder why we hurried so to find it. For it has taken from us every reason for existence except the moment's pleasure and tomorrow's trivial hope.

"This is the pass to which science and philosophy have brought us. I, who have loved philosophy for many years, now turn back to life itself, and ask you, as one who has lived as well as thought, to help me understand. Perhaps the verdict of those who have lived is different from that of those who have merely thought.

"Spare me a moment to tell me what meaning life has for you, what keeps you going, what help -- if any -- religion gives you, what are the sources of your inspiration and your energy, what is the goal or motive-force of your toil, where you find your consolations and your happiness, where, in the last resort, your treasure lies. Write briefly if you must; write at length and at leisure if you possibly can; for every word from you will be precious to me.

Sincerely yours,
Will Durant


The responses he got back were collected and put into a book called "The Meaning of Life." It is definitely worth reading.

.

Post: #16

(06-22-2016 02:46 PM)LINUX Wrote:  How do I keep on keeping on?

You know what man. I fucking love my life.

And most war veterans will never say that. I wake up excited everyday.

If you want to know why, I'll try to sit down and write why, but it's going to go against most of things that you read here.

Why?

Post: #17

(06-22-2016 02:46 PM)LINUX Wrote:  If you want to know why, I'll try to sit down and write why, but it's going to go against most of things that you read here.

Do it.

Post: #18

LINUX, our respected forum member, please do share your story to inspire us all.

Post: #19

I believe the key to life is to be happy... and to be happy is to be living in accordance to our frames of mind. While I do admit that having a kid is absolutely the fastest way to put someone back on track, I believe it's better to not have one if you ain't ready for it. He needs to re evaluate his frames of mind, and then put in a plan in action and execute them.

And finally, the player lifestyle is great, but there is a downside from it though. From reading the book the Game, to personally knowing a successful player that went religious, and by fallowing Roosh's writing as well, it seems that the more a player is successful, the harder he will eventually wonder about the meaning of life when the Game gets old. I think your friend is on the same path.

Post: #20

An honest question. And an honest answer:

You may want to change the title of your thread. Or not, I don't know. I say this humbly to you. As your friend is not genuinely contemplating taking his own life, and this is a 'gedanken' (thought experiment), these are my words of advice.

It is very very important to make a distinction between depression, which is a life threatening illness, that cuts years off your life, if not ending it altogether prematurely, and an existential crisis, which is what it sounds like your friend is having.

I've had both, and know the difference.

I would say, that until you reach the point where you consider taking your own life, or that life becomes so unbearable because you are losing so much weight because you can not eat, then you haven't really suffered full on life threatening depression. It's a very serious matter, though not everyone who thinks they understand it, does.

I don't mean to be argumentative for the sake of it, and I have not read other's replies so far yet, but I think it is an important distinction to point out.

Having said that, it's certainly possible to waste years of your life in meaningless contemplation, perhaps smoking a little too much dope than is good for you, perhaps drinking more than is good for you, or just navel-gazing.

Your friend asks a valid question, and only he can answer that for himself. By all means contribute to his great 'question' - that is what friends are for.

But please make the distinction between true depression (which comes in many shapes and sizes, but is always life-changing) and someone grasping for higher philosophical truth. Not to denigrate this pursuit of his.

The word 'depression' has become so over-used as to have very little meaning any more. It is commonly diagnosed by doctors as a catch-all when they can't figure other stuff out. True depression is a lot rarer than society makes it out to be. You will know when it takes over your life. You will start losing your eyesight, your teeth will start dropping out, your body will stop working as it falls apart, bit by bit. You may eat your self to death, or you may just stop eating altogether. It's a multi-headed beast, that no pill, other than the milk of human kindness, can cure (in my limited experience, and not always then).

I apologize for my terse reply. Hopefully you will not find it offensive. It's just that there are so many types of depression - chronic, severe, major, atypical, double-depression etc. etc. that it's hard to keep up with it all. Most people who think they are depressed are not even depressed.

Questioning the purpose of life, when in full health, with friends around you, with family around you, with nice food to eat around you, with entertainment around you, with a body that is not breaking down bit by bit, cell by cell, is not depression. To be frank, it is the polar opposite - it is indulgence, plain and simple. I've done that too, so I don't judge.

If you can take this in the spirit it is intended, I would say, take your mate out for a few beers, and when is back is turned and his guard is down, kick him hard up the arse (ass if you're American, sorry)!

The Zen masters did similar things to their students, and even when they knew it was coming, it was still a surprise. It works on a very basic level, from 'knocking some sense into someone', to 'sometimes, all people need is a kick up the arse (ass)'.

When true depression takes over a person, they can not be reached, not by friends, family, doctors. This can not be cured by anything, let alone the 'Zen' approach.

As for your friend, just tell him to 'follow his nose'. His ears and eyes are all he needs to find true happiness, and true meaning, in anything, in any waking moment. It is all there for him. If he does not use his ears and eyes, he will never find anything worthwhile and will always be searching, like a ghost, craven for more, to fill a void that can never be filled.

Post: #21

Quote: an honest question. And an honest answer:

You may want to change the title of your thread. Or not, I don't know. I say this humbly to you. As your friend is not genuinely contemplating taking his own life, and this is a 'gedanken' (thought experiment), these are my words of advice.

It is very very important to make a distinction between depression, which is a life threatening illness, that cuts years off your life, if not ending it altogether prematurely, and an existential crisis, which is what it sounds like your friend is having.

I've had both, and know the difference.

I would say, that until you reach the point where you consider taking your own life, or that life becomes so unbearable because you are losing so much weight because you can not eat, then you haven't really suffered full on life threatening depression. It's a very serious matter, though not everyone who thinks they understand it, does.

I don't mean to be argumentative for the sake of it, and I have not read other's replies so far yet, but I think it is an important distinction to point out.

Having said that, it's certainly possible to waste years of your life in meaningless contemplation, perhaps smoking a little too much dope than is good for you, perhaps drinking more than is good for you, or just navel-gazing.

Your friend asks a valid question, and only he can answer that for himself. By all means contribute to his great 'question' - that is what friends are for.

But please make the distinction between true depression (which comes in many shapes and sizes, but is always life-changing) and someone grasping for higher philosophical truth. Not to denigrate this pursuit of his.

The word 'depression' has become so over-used as to have very little meaning any more. It is commonly diagnosed by doctors as a catch-all when they can't figure other stuff out. True depression is a lot rarer than society makes it out to be. You will know when it takes over your life. You will start losing your eyesight, your teeth will start dropping out, your body will stop working as it falls apart, bit by bit. You may eat your self to death, or you may just stop eating altogether. It's a multi-headed beast, that no pill, other than the milk of human kindness, can cure (in my limited experience, and not always then).

I apologize for my terse reply. Hopefully you will not find it offensive. It's just that there are so many types of depression - chronic, severe, major, atypical, double-depression etc. etc. that it's hard to keep up with it all. Most people who think they are depressed are not even depressed.

Questioning the purpose of life, when in full health, with friends around you, with family around you, with nice food to eat around you, with entertainment around you, with a body that is not breaking down bit by bit, cell by cell, is not depression. To be frank, it is the polar opposite - it is indulgence, plain and simple. I've done that too, so I don't judge.

If you can take this in the spirit it is intended, I would say, take your mate out for a few beers, and when is back is turned and his guard is down, kick him hard up the arse (ass if you're American, sorry)!

The Zen masters did similar things to their students, and even when they knew it was coming, it was still a surprise. It works on a very basic level, from 'knocking some sense into someone', to 'sometimes, all people need is a kick up the arse (ass)'.

When true depression takes over a person, they can not be reached, not by friends, family, doctors. This can not be cured by anything, let alone the 'Zen' approach.

As for your friend, just tell him to 'follow his nose'. His ears and eyes are all he needs to find true happiness, and true meaning, in anything, in any waking moment. It is all there for him. If he does not use his ears and eyes, he will never find anything worthwhile and will always be searching, like a ghost, craven for more, to fill a void that can never be filled.

Wise words, you said what I was trying to say and more. Man I need to work on my writing skills.

Post: #22

(06-22-2016 01:31 PM)Rush87 Wrote:  The women, the commercial goods, the real estate…

I think you've pretty much answered your own question, no matter what it was.

Post: #23

They say that depression is a chemical imbalance in the brain. I am inclined to agree with this but it probably does not tell the whole story. It's likely that drugs DO treat depression effectively, but depending on who is taking and prescribing them, it could be like a bandaid on a large wound.

Does the chemical imbalance happen as a result of something else? Lifestyle decisions and thought patterns?

If this is the case (in my opinion, it absolutely is) then taking action and making changes to your self-talk and lifestyle could very well lead to a useful lifelong treatment for depression.

All the depressed people I know are pretty deep thinkers, usually very observant of the world around them, and they often have profound things to say. Consistent among them is that they seem to retreat inwards to look for answers, when it might be a good thing to expand one's comfort zone and go outwards. Volunteer at a soup kitchen or sit at an AA/NA meeting. Isolation could also help in the search for answers - but the choice is yours, really.

This "going outwards" brought me a lot of perspective while I was suffering from my low periods, and when it hit a watershed point of misery I'd just go manic as all hell.

For mental sobriety I'm trying to drink a little less, go to nature and solitude a bit more, and trying to make an active effort towards socializing with people and asking them what is bothering them when I feel like going out - and actually listening. You can't effectively listen to people if you're wrapped up in your own headspace, and it can put a damper on relationships and the mental clarity required to know what you actually want in life. That's the sort of inner game advice that can be hard to find on the internet. It's too beta, haha.

EDIT: To answer OP, life's purpose? Boats and hoes, my man.

Post: #24

To crush your enemies,

to see them driven before you,

and to hear the lamentations of their women.

Post: #25

My theory on this:

Depression is a sign of spiritual, physical, and mental stagnation.

Ever notice the people who are depressed? They're people who have stopped growing and have stopped defining themselves.

These people tend to be middle-aged, fat, stuck in dead end jobs, and are lazy. Sex has no bearing on this.

The fact that the mind senses something is wrong is a moot point. The mind will get caught in its own naval gazing.

Here's the easiest way most people can shake depression:

1. Hit the gym and clean up nutrition. Shit in, shit out.
2. Rediscover spirituality, whatever that may mean for you (church, meditation,etc).
3. Learn a new skill (cooking, language, math, etc).

Hitting all three points will restore your vitality and make you feel better.