Post: #26

Guitarist here.

My prized posession is an Ibanez Jem. I got it off of ebay for a steal. I tried haggling more with the guy until I realised how much of a steal I was getting. Case and all.

I don't really play anymore since I've come to China, but I do love to sit in a bar and play around. Most bars here have a guitar sitting around. I tend to get sucked in and sit in the corner playing around ha.

I always wanted to be a shredder and such. And I wasn't bad at it, but I am more of a writer so I focused more of my creative time on writing.

That said, becoming a musician made me a better writer. I can just "write" and not worry too much and let my fingers do the work.

Post: #27

I would like to be better at guitar personally. My skillset with guitar is very minimal and I know zero theory. I just play what sounds good to me with my novice-level finger dexterity. I'd love to be passable at classical/finger picked guitar as well as be able to shred metal solos. I'm a long way of from either of those especially since I don't play as often now as I did a couple years ago.

Post: #28

(06-11-2016 07:13 PM)Fortis Wrote:  Guitarist here.

My prized posession is an Ibanez Jem. I got it off of ebay for a steal. I tried haggling more with the guy until I realised how much of a steal I was getting. Case and all.

I don't really play anymore since I've come to China, but I do love to sit in a bar and play around. Most bars here have a guitar sitting around. I tend to get sucked in and sit in the corner playing around ha.

I always wanted to be a shredder and such. And I wasn't bad at it, but I am more of a writer so I focused more of my creative time on writing.

That said, becoming a musician made me a better writer. I can just "write" and not worry too much and let my fingers do the work.

I tried the shredding thing on the Jem. I loved that guitar, just couldn't understand why it kept going out of tune when I placed my palm on the bridge. :-)

I know guys with perfect pitch and who are perfect shredders. It can be good, but it's pretty boring really, as there is always someone better than you.

I'm also a bit dyspraxic, so really I shouldn't be able to play at all. But years and years of practising 8 hours a day have stood me in good stead. I now have my own original style, where I sometimes go out of time or out of tune, but it is interesting, in a world where everyone is so perfect and so much repeating what they think it is a good guitarist is.

The world does not need another Jimmy Hendrix. SRV put paid to that god rest his soul.

I'm more Billy Gibbons rough raw style. An improviser. Very often it doesn't come off, but when it does, it's unique.

But playing lead guitar is very different to writing songs, of course, but they can both inform each other.

It's nice to be able to rip through a song you did though, and to be able to play the lead better than most others would be able to (coz you know your own style) - so I say: do both, if you can!

Post: #29

(06-11-2016 07:27 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  I would like to be better at guitar personally. My skillset with guitar is very minimal and I know zero theory. I just play what sounds good to me with my novice-level finger dexterity. I'd love to be passable at classical/finger picked guitar as well as be able to shred metal solos. I'm a long way of from either of those especially since I don't play as often now as I did a couple years ago.

You know, I know so many really interesting guitarists like that.

Even people that know nothing about the guitar say: Oh, check out so and so, he is amazing, best guitarist I've ever heard. The guy can not play a note! Yet he picks it up, and just lets rip, and it works in a way that is so alien to your typical workings.

That is not to belittle all the hard work and dexterity of proper guitarists, but man, this is the 21st century, we have had a hundred years of this stuff almost.

I've thrown everything I know out of the water. Everything, all theory, all tricks. I just play. And it's better than ever. A little break can do you good as well. I don't want to get any better, it would spoil my style!!

Taking enjoyment from it is the biggest thing for me. I don't care so much about tone or wtf. It's good enough. I'll never be Jimmy Page.

But yes it is satisfying to play guitar that accompanies your songs. That is very rewarding in itself.

Then again, it only takes a few weeks practice to get back up to speed, if you feel you could do better.

Post: #30

(06-11-2016 07:27 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  I'd love to be passable at classical/finger picked guitar as well

This is the best guitar lesson you will ever get for free on this subject, by the mighty Mark Knopfler:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_8dDaPsSmg

It's a very quick simple lesson, but it may take you years to get down (bit like patting your head and rubbing your tummy).

Still, the lesson's a good 'un.

Maybe not classical as such, but the principle is the same. If you can't do what he doing here, you'll never be able to go deep with classical.

Even if you can learn to do what he's doing to a small extent, it will elevate you above the rest of many guitarists.

I certainly would never be able to do it, but that's just me. I'm a hack.

Post: #31

(06-11-2016 07:40 PM)Rigsby Wrote:  

(06-11-2016 07:13 PM)Fortis Wrote:  Guitarist here.

My prized posession is an Ibanez Jem. I got it off of ebay for a steal. I tried haggling more with the guy until I realised how much of a steal I was getting. Case and all.

I don't really play anymore since I've come to China, but I do love to sit in a bar and play around. Most bars here have a guitar sitting around. I tend to get sucked in and sit in the corner playing around ha.

I always wanted to be a shredder and such. And I wasn't bad at it, but I am more of a writer so I focused more of my creative time on writing.

That said, becoming a musician made me a better writer. I can just "write" and not worry too much and let my fingers do the work.

I tried the shredding thing on the Jem. I loved that guitar, just couldn't understand why it kept going out of tune when I placed my palm on the bridge. :-)

I know guys with perfect pitch and who are perfect shredders. It can be good, but it's pretty boring really, as there is always someone better than you.

I'm also a bit dyspraxic, so really I shouldn't be able to play at all. But years and years of practising 8 hours a day have stood me in good stead. I now have my own original style, where I sometimes go out of time or out of tune, but it is interesting, in a world where everyone is so perfect and so much repeating what they think it is a good guitarist is.

The world does not need another Jimmy Hendrix. SRV put paid to that god rest his soul.

I'm more Billy Gibbons rough raw style. An improviser. Very often it doesn't come off, but when it does, it's unique.

But playing lead guitar is very different to writing songs, of course, but they can both inform each other.

It's nice to be able to rip through a song you did though, and to be able to play the lead better than most others would be able to (coz you know your own style) - so I say: do both, if you can!

Agreed. I am a death metal kid at heart so I always loved shredding. Most death metal is just really downtuned shredding, so it comes with the territory.

My actual style is a bit different from that, though. I'm big on Radiohead, Mars Volta, Don Caballero, Toe and more rock stuff so I always like those nice, repetitious lilting passages. So I sorta do a little of both.

But yeah, Great idea for making this thread guys. Always nice to know there are other musicians on RVF. Nice break from politics and game.

Post: #32

Oh yeah, about the guitar:

I don't know, really. I'm not a huge gear head. I got REALLY lucky with that guitar. My professional musician friends all want to buy it from me. For what I paid and what it's worth, I got way more than my money's worth.

I worked the entire summer of Freshman year of college to buy it and I don't regret that work at all.

I'm also that friend who hangs with my professional friends and play their gear for free, so I always felt like I had the most cutting edge shit just because of my social circle. Good times were had.

All this talk makes me want to play again.

Post: #33

Vocalist here. I've just started learning guitar, 'cos since I was a young'un everyone was on my dick so hard about my singing that I really didn't think guitar would be needed.
But when you have to do an impromptu solo, it comes in handy.

Post: #34

I've been devoting a lot of time to music ever since some other members in the Lounge thread suggested I take it up.
It's a ton of fun!

I've been spending most of my time with a copy of FL studio, trying to learn how to write EDM style music with synths. It's an enormous challenge, but it's very rewarding and certainly more fun than spending another evening wiping to a boss in Final Fantasy.

Does anyone else here do digital music production, as opposed to the more classic "Sit down with a notepad and a guitar and write something out?" How did you get started? How did you make those first few songs when it felt like nothing you did was any good?

Post: #35

(06-11-2016 03:07 PM)DarianFrey Wrote:  Indeed Windom Earle, Martin's pre-war style guitars are hard to beat for sound and playability. Big fan of the V neck, enables easier access for weird chord shapes. Also wider string spacing - fretting on the OM feels like something between a nylon string and steel string to me, and that's not a bad thing when playing fingerstyle. What do you play?

I'm mainly into big open chords with weird/alternate tunings, and the occasional finger-picking. All about dynamics really. Seeing that the D28 is known as a "cannon" due to it's ability to project, it's really perfect for the style I play.

(06-11-2016 03:07 PM)DarianFrey Wrote:  Have you tried the OM? The string separation is phenomenal and tones sustain well. I can fiddle with harmonics for several minutes just to hear them ring out the way they do. Note: I have the OM-28 Marquis that was discontinued in 2014, Martin have since remade the OM28s.

I haven't tried any OM's, but considering I've got my dreadnought bases covered, would be keen to get my hands on one in the future to hear how they sound.

Dig the sound of the Mahogany body 000 too, and a big fan of Dallas Green's style:

Post: #36

Listen to Dust Moses, M.u.l. and Fresh Loot - G.O.D. Life (prod Dust Moses) by Dust Moses #np on #SoundCloud
https://soundcloud.com/dustmoses/dust-mo...t-god-life

I used to rap and make beats now I just make beats for other rappers and record them, here's a track from 2014 I did the first verse and produced it.

Post: #37

(06-09-2016 04:52 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

(06-09-2016 04:41 PM)Mr. D Wrote:  In fact, the whole band is plug'n'play. Except the drummer, he's got a digital kit with real cymbals and a real kickdrum with a mic inside & a trigger on the beater head.
The heaviest thing in our van is the PA and FOH console. And with everything thought out and simplified to a degree (this band's been around for 5 years), our teardown time's about 30-45 minutes.

That's insane to me. A typical show I'm used to will have 20 minutes at most between bands' sets except for headliners/co-headliners. With my band, from the time the band before us had all their shit off the stage, we could be ready to play in less than 10 minutes, and we had no simplified setups. Full 7-piece drumkit with a sample pad and 3 half-stacks (though often times the bass head was DI into the PA for larger gigs). One of my guitarists had a big money digital setup with a separate rolling case (AxeFx, power amp, wireless, power conditioner, pedal board) and my other guitarist had a full analogue setup (Orange TH100 head with large pedal chain and effects loop).

We would just take the time before our set while other bands play to pre-set all out shit, then when it's time to rock we roll our shit on stage and plug it/mic it, and sound check.

EDIT - though looking back you did say "teardown" which is actually a big difference. The lengthiest part of the teardown was really just the drumkit and loading gear back into the trailer. We'd take our shit right off the stage then break it down out back, but really didn't take more than about 20 minutes still if we were on task and not shooting the shit.

That's the beauty of efficiency.

I clocked our setup/teardown times this weekend, 45/45 minutes.
If we hadn't taken the lighting rig with us (6 moving heads and a couple of smaller PARs for front lighting), it would've shaved off about 10 minutes.

Post: #38

I'm garbage at mastering music and I hate it. I know it's perfectly okay and normal to not be a jack-of-all-trades when it comes to audio engineering, but I'd like to at least be able to fully record, edit, mix, and master my own solo stuff for myself at least and have it sound good and commercial.

I know the basic practices, but when I implement them myself they don't come out how I like at all. Can't get my percussion punching and dynamic enough, can't get my guitars biting and stand-out enough, etc. And my shit can be maxed out but still not be "loud" enough. Anyone have any practices/trade-secrets they would share?

Post: #39

My current set-up includes 2 x Yamaha HS8 monitors running through a shitty cheap PreSonus USB Audio-Box and a M-Audio Oxygen 49 midi keyboard.

Having used the HS8's for nearly two years now I am starting to notice quite a substantial amount of ear-fatigue and a slight ringing in the ear that passes (I'm playing just above normal conversation level and my room is as dead as I can make it at the moment)

Does anyone else have any experience with these particular monitors or anything else similar? I was using a pair of KRK Rokit RP8's before but the boomy bass they were giving in my current room was making my mixes translate terrible to other systems.

Post: #40

(07-13-2016 12:45 PM)UlteriorMotive Wrote:  My current set-up includes 2 x Yamaha HS8 monitors running through a shitty cheap PreSonus USB Audio-Box and a M-Audio Oxygen 49 midi keyboard.

Having used the HS8's for nearly two years now I am starting to notice quite a substantial amount of ear-fatigue and a slight ringing in the ear that passes (I'm playing just above normal conversation level and my room is as dead as I can make it at the moment)

Does anyone else have any experience with these particular monitors or anything else similar? I was using a pair of KRK Rokit RP8's before but the boomy bass they were giving in my current room was making my mixes translate terrible to other systems.

I've heard good things about the HS8's but I can't comment on long-term hearing issues involving them. Not sure exactly how dead your room is but that could contribute if you have trace high-frequencies buzzing around.

As for KRK Rokits as far as I understand they've been reported to have a bit of EQ'ing done on them so sound is not as true as it should be and do sound more boomy.

Post: #41

(06-12-2016 02:58 AM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  I've been devoting a lot of time to music ever since some other members in the Lounge thread suggested I take it up.
It's a ton of fun!

I've been spending most of my time with a copy of FL studio, trying to learn how to write EDM style music with synths. It's an enormous challenge, but it's very rewarding and certainly more fun than spending another evening wiping to a boss in Final Fantasy.

Does anyone else here do digital music production, as opposed to the more classic "Sit down with a notepad and a guitar and write something out?" How did you get started? How did you make those first few songs when it felt like nothing you did was any good?

I've been half-arsed producing Electronic music for nearly 4 years (more serious in the past year) and found that YouTube has been my greatest ally.

I relied heavily on BusyWorksBeats (https://www.youtube.com/user/busyworksbeats) and SeamlessR (https://www.youtube.com/user/SeamlessR) (Who use FL Studio also) are two of my most used channels for information.

The best advice I received from a friend was "You're not good enough to make your own sound at the moment so it's best to imitate someone else until you find your footing"

I started first by singling out artists that I was really drawn to (I produce Drum & Bass 99% of the time) and they were Calibre/LSB/Tokyo Prose/Zero T etc and would listen to their music constantly trying to absorb as much as I could.

I wrote down all the little things I noticed about their productions (Instruments used mainly, effects, transitions, what happened during the intro, intro length, what kind of build up was used, was mid-bass used or was it primarily sub bass, types of kicks / snares being thin and snappy or more rimshot akin/ ETC)

After that I did my best to constantly try to create samples that sounded similair to ones the artists that inspired me would use. (not whole tracks) in doing this I managed to build up a library of a few thousand hits (kicks/snares/hats/breaks/shuffles) that were already EQ'd in a very basic way so they would be ready for when a sample or a chord would strike me and get the ball rolling.

At first everything I made sounded like complete garbage (a lot of the time I thought I was ready to send it out to labels) and relying on friends/online places for feedback kept me grounded and knowing which area next to improve on based on feedback.

Learning basic Music Theory and how to use FL inside and out(The Mixer/Reverb/Delay/Harmor/Systrus/Line Editors/EQ/etc) would be the first step I would recommend to everyone.

Post: #42

(07-13-2016 12:59 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

(07-13-2016 12:45 PM)UlteriorMotive Wrote:  My current set-up includes 2 x Yamaha HS8 monitors running through a shitty cheap PreSonus USB Audio-Box and a M-Audio Oxygen 49 midi keyboard.

Having used the HS8's for nearly two years now I am starting to notice quite a substantial amount of ear-fatigue and a slight ringing in the ear that passes (I'm playing just above normal conversation level and my room is as dead as I can make it at the moment)

Does anyone else have any experience with these particular monitors or anything else similar? I was using a pair of KRK Rokit RP8's before but the boomy bass they were giving in my current room was making my mixes translate terrible to other systems.

I've heard good things about the HS8's but I can't comment on long-term hearing issues involving them. Not sure exactly how dead your room is but that could contribute if you have trace high-frequencies buzzing around.

As for KRK Rokits as far as I understand they've been reported to have a bit of EQ'ing done on them so sound is not as true as it should be and do sound more boomy.

I've been looking at purchasing another set of monitors for general use and just falling back on the HS8's for when I need a really bright monitor.

Do you have any experience with the Mackie HR824's?

Post: #43

I'm using presonus eris 4.5 monitors and after a few months of use the left one started cutting out occasionally, if I bang on the top it comes back. Garbage. I'm going to replace them with JBL LSR305's eventually.

My whole set up is pretty ghetto, I make lofi-ish techno and hip hop. Everything is done outside the box expect recording, I get the music into the PC with a steinberg ur22. Currently just a Roland SP-404 and a EMU Command Station XL7 which I use to sequence everything, it all goes into a Mackie MS 1202 with various cheap rack effects from the 80s-90s (I've got thing for crusty old digital effects units, the ones that were used by a lot of new wave bands). I sold a few drum machines and synths last year that at times I wish I had kept, but I honestly think I could be perfectly happy with nothing but the SP404, it's a super minimalist way of making music which for me gives way to more creativity.

I really suck at in the box mixing, I use a program everyone seems to hate (for good reason I think) adobe audition, I pretty much just open a stereo track in the software and hit record, it does offer some basic mastering utilities which is nice. I think I'm going to give reaper a try because I hate using audition.

Post: #44

(07-13-2016 12:17 PM)UlteriorMotive Wrote:  Just bumping as I'm curious to see what our guys here that produce music are using equipment wise.

Having used the HS8's for nearly two years now I am starting to notice quite a substantial amount of ear-fatigue and a slight ringing in the ear that passes (I'm playing just above normal conversation level and my room is as dead as I can make it at the moment)

Does anyone else have any experience with these particular monitors or anything else similar? I was using a pair of KRK Rokit RP8's before but the boomy bass they were giving in my current room was making my mixes translate terrible to other systems.

I've used both.

The Yamahas are known for being a bit 'toppy' in the high end, i.e. a little fatiguing because they are shrill. Very good monitors, but pronounced high end. This is pretty much a statement of fact and not opinion, as they are one of the most widely used monitors in existence today. Many people bought them as a replacement to the NS-10s but they are a totally different beast.

The NS-10 has a pronounced boost in the mid-range (around 2K iirc), so, that being the most sensitive part of human hearing (see Fletcher-Munson curve), people tend to boost the lows and highs in the studio to make up for it. This is why it has become the most iconic and widely used studio monitor in the world. It forces the engineer to effectively simulate the 'LOUDNESS' button on the stereo, before hand. The Loudness button just boosts the lows and boosts the highs and perhaps might dip the mids as well. Think of the classical 'SMILE' shape on a graphic equalizer - that is doing exactly the same thing.

The NS-10s are shit, but they do a job. The HS-80s are not the same at all. There was a reason why people put toilet or tissue paper over the tweeters of the NS-10s. That reason was arguable. Most people can't bring themselves to do that with the HS-80s, but it might not be a bad idea, as they are actually brighter by a dB or two more than the NS-10s, as you can see in this chart (in the very upper high end around 10K)!



However, you can see that the HS-80 is a superior monitor with regard to its much flatter broadband frequency response. They just kick the highs up a little too much is all! I provided this comparison for illustrative purposes as the concept goes across the board for all monitors. [The HS-80 is just the 8" version of the HS-50 5", so they are comparable for our purposes]

As for the KRKs. They are known to be a bit over-pronounced in the lower mids. Yes, they are boomy and kick some serious bottom end, but the lower mids is where the confusion sets in. Depending on your room it would be better to get the 6" versions with the sub-woofer.

The Yamahas are making your ears ring coz of the over-the-top high end. High end will do that to you. Take breaks.

The boomy bass you were getting off the KRKs is probably because you don't have sufficient sound proofing. Do you have your speakers in quarter space? That is to say, are they close to a corner or a wall? How close? You had instructions with your speakers on how to place them. Follow that advice. It is physics and can not be beaten.

You want your speakers to be a couple of feet at least away from the walls. Also, what is the shape of your room? Rectangular rooms, are not ideal, but common. You want to place the speakers at the long end not the short end. Again, this is very basic speaker positioning advice. Lots of it out there on the net.

Basically, your room will be unique (to an extent) and you want to finesse all the different points you can to make it good. Rooms have frequencies and resonate at certain notes. I have charts and calculators that allow me to tell the fundamental frequency of a room and its harmonics. The last thing you want are resonances giving an over pronounced effect.

You will need to tune your room to an extent. Don't worry about egg-cartons and expensive solutions for now. A bit of judiciously placed carpet here and there can work wonders when you understand the science of it.

The science of it is indescribably complex and you get into DSP (digital signal processing) shit pretty quick. You don't need that unless you are doing something extremely advanced. For most people, you just need to make some measurements, find out the offending frequencies and attenuate accordingly - that is pretty simple.

I can try and dig out my charts and calculators for room spaces. Perhaps you can find them on line yourself. Suffice to say, any of those monitors will do you proud.

Also, you want to do a frequency sweep of your room and tell its dead and bright spots, so again, you can adjust.

See: https://www.google.co.uk/#q=frequency+sw...+your+room

That is a great pair of monitors you have there, and they will do you proud. Even getting a more accurate pair will not help your situation.

And don't forget to double check on headphones periodically. Stuff like stereo imaging and spotting little clicks that go un-noticed over the big speakers (because of masking) are all good counterpoints to good monitoring over speakers, if that makes sense.

You really do need to learn your monitors, and how they translate. You seem to have done that with your KRKs, so I assume you are doing that with the Yamahas too.

It may be that you need to try another set of monitors if they hurt your ears. The tissue over the tweeters method is laughed at by some, yet works well for others. If you do a sweep of your room, and find that maybe you have an EXTRA resonance on top in the high end, then the Yamahas will send that through the roof!

Once you identify the offending frequency, it is a case of putting a suitable Equalizer on your master bus and attenuating for it. Now, this high end rogue frequency will be dealt with, and your ears will not hurt so much. That is the theory.

It sounds like you have resonances in your room that you have not dealt with. Now you have the information to deal with them, things should get a lot better for you.


Further reading:

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-roommodes.htm

http://amroc.andymel.eu/

http://www.mh-audio.nl/sg.asp

http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/room-modes-101/

What are room modes and how do they impact sound quality?

Some unavoidable facts:

ALL rooms have naturally occurring resonance frequencies called room modes or standing waves. If you read around the web you’ll find some more esoteric terms like eigentones or eigenmodes. I quite like calling them modal resonances.

Room modes are the main cause of acoustic distortion below the transition frequency, causing peaks and dips in the frequency response of 20dB or more.

Modal resonances store energy and decay slowly compared to nearby frequencies causing audible problems such as ‘one note bass’ and ‘boominess’.

NEARLY ALL systems, even those with extremely high end equipment, suffer from the negative impact of modal resonances.


EDIT:
I have moved this from the other thread, no need for mods. I'll delete the other one to avoid confusion. All good.

Post: #45

(06-12-2016 02:58 AM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  I've been spending most of my time with a copy of FL studio, trying to learn how to write EDM style music with synths. It's an enormous challenge, but it's very rewarding and certainly more fun than spending another evening wiping to a boss in Final Fantasy.

Does anyone else here do digital music production, as opposed to the more classic "Sit down with a notepad and a guitar and write something out?" How did you get started? How did you make those first few songs when it felt like nothing you did was any good?

I'm a big FLStudio fan.

All music production is 'digital' these days, pretty much.

Don't worry about how anyone else did it. We all had our own journey. It's up to you to find yours. This is not meant as some kind of mystic guru BS, but more as common sense really.

If you are serious, you will woodshed (lock yourself away and work work work). It will be bad. Won't matter. Keep working so you get so good that it impresses even YOU.

If you are still stuck for inspiration or want more feedback then go to the few audio producer forums that have many threads on this. There you will find all kinds of approaches.

If I'm doing an acoustic song, then that takes a certain 'way', and if I'm doing Drum n Bass, then that goes another direction. Hip-Hop etc. etc.

They aren't that different, really.

It depends if you are doing this just for fun, or because you want to 'get somewhere'. Nothing wrong with either. But really, the advice you get can only be tailored to you when you tell us what it is you hope to achieve.

I will be very loving and nurturing with my advice if you are doing it for fun. But if you want to do it for profit or any other reason, you will rightly get brutalized until you realize what you are dealing with. It's tough love.

Having said that, either way, I have lots of help I can give you. I don't mind sharing project files. I have a whole bunch of them in FLStudio. I can tell you the best synthesizers to use, the best drum machines, the best effect units (all within FLS).

Ironically, you will get much better hands on service here than you will on the biggest music producer forums on the web. I wouldn't offer this to people there, but I'm happy to personally help people out here, while I can. Why? It's just nice to let my hair down and have a bit of fun, and do it for people that appreciate it, rather than the many other reasons that I post elsewhere. In fact, I'm seriously winding down my net presence with a view to going totally off line in the next few years.

I'm happy to share my work with you, and I even have one-off stuff that no one else has for a little bonus! All legal, btw. I won't ever share cracks and all that. Then again, I'm involved with the cracking community as well, but that is two totally different things.

If you ask me a detailed question, I will give you a detailed answer.

Post: #46

(07-13-2016 12:43 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  I'm garbage at mastering music and I hate it. I know it's perfectly okay and normal to not be a jack-of-all-trades when it comes to audio engineering, but I'd like to at least be able to fully record, edit, mix, and master my own solo stuff for myself at least and have it sound good and commercial.

I know the basic practices, but when I implement them myself they don't come out how I like at all. Can't get my percussion punching and dynamic enough, can't get my guitars biting and stand-out enough, etc. And my shit can be maxed out but still not be "loud" enough. Anyone have any practices/trade-secrets they would share?

I do indeed GS.

It sounds to me like you have described a classic case of not being introduced to the wonderful world of the CLIPPER. When to use it and what sort of material it will work on take practice and experience. But I can say this now: Learn how to use a CLIPPER and your percussion will go through the roof, and your guitars will bite you on your god damn ass!

What is a clipper?

A CLIPPER is very close to being a LIMITER, which is very close to being a COMPRESSOR. We won't worry about anything else but the CLIPPER from now on in.

Let's go grab a CLIPPER, shall we? For free:

First: http://www.gvst.co.uk/gclip.htm

From my friend Graham who provides excellent audio tools for free to the audio community. I know of some very high end producers that use this, whilst having very expensive software in their bag.

The great thing about GClip, is that it has a window to see the signal being clipped.

If you want to pay a small amount, one of the best that I have is by Kazrog - http://kazrog.com/products/kclip/

Let's take a couple of screenshots for reference:





Basically, what a CLIPPER does, and how it differs from say Limiters, or Compressors, is that it just totally brutally shaves off the top of an audio signal's peak, effectively square-waving your signal. It's not pretty and it has many audio artifacts if over used. And this is the beauty of the CLIPPER, when not over-used, you can not hear it at all!

Let's not go too far into technical stuff. You can read all about that at many other places.

This is where the magic lies for you!

A CLIPPER will cut off the most fast and transient peaks in the audio signal known to man! These are signals so vicious and brutal that even Compressors can not catch them. The way the human ear works, is that it can not hear very fast transient attacks in audio, but your computer can! And when your computer picks up on that signal, it will bring it drastically back down, effectively lowering your overall signal. Hence the reason why your percussion and your guitars are 'lacking'.

Now, you obviously know what you are talking about GS, via empirical observation, because, arguably, the two biggest uses for a CLIPPER, are for PERCUSSION, and GUITAR material. Why? Because they have the most unruly through the roof signal peaks per the average signal level known to man. You are not alone!


Download the free GClip. Put it on one of your rogue tracks. Shave of a dB or two. All of a sudden, you have exactly the same signal, but minus the rogue peaks. As long as you do not overdo this, there will no humanly audible distortion. And you will have won.

CLIPPING does not work on all material. It is not a panacea for getting louder tracks. But, I know some very well regarded mastering engineers, and I have learned from them. There is a time to use CLIPPING, and there is a time to use Limiting, in the mastering stages. Compression will usually be done earlier, of course.

So, that percussion track that only sounded to be at a low volume, but was really sending spikes at through the roof - levels that you could not hear and even too fast for your normal audio software to pick up on, is now being tamed. That gives you a good few dB of headroom. Et Voila!

You won't hear it. Remember that. That is the whole god damned point of using a CLIPPER effectively - the minute you 'hear' it - forget it. But the computer will hear it. It is to do with the field of psycho-acoustics, it is to do with how modern software utilises DSP. Never mind.

Put GClip on your rogue percussion track. Put it on your rogue guitar track! Do this on a per track basis. CLIPPING is very much a final mastering technique, but this is where the whole 'gain-staging' shenanigans comes in. Do it per track for every rogue track you have. Then you have optimum signal to noise ratio. And from there, mastering and getting a BLOODY LOUD MASTER THAT IS NOT NASTY TO LISTEN TO, is possible.

You lose absolutely ZERO of the dynamics of your percussion or guitars - they are still swinging and whatnot. But you have given the signal a shave. That is what a CLIPPER is - it a signal shaver. It gives your audio signal a flat-top haircut.

The trick is really in learning when to use a CLIPPER, and when to use say, a Compressor, or perhaps a Limiter. Now I know that you know how to use these tools very well. In fact, I know of some very high-end engineers that still do not know WHEN to use a CLIPPER.

It's not that it is esoteric mystic knowledge, it's just an autistic level of trial and error that is required to work this out for yourself. And with all things audio, until you have worked it out for yourself and internalised this, then you will be none the wiser.

I have bookmarks on this. I have the best explanations known to man on this subject, by the leaders in the field, accredited authorities on the matter, but suffice to say, you should have enough information now to work it out for yourself.

In short.

Use CLIPPERS on a per track basis to tame the bastards straight away. Use them for the extremely high dynamic range material such as percussion and guitars, as already mentioned.
Use CLIPPERS at the end of your mastering chain, but before a LIMITER, to absolutely MAXIMISE THE SHIT OUT OF YOUR FINAL MASTER, without is sounding distorted.

Different mastering engineers propound the different advantages about putting CLIPPERS at different points in the chain. But they will always be before the final Limiter.


I know the stage you are at GS. We've all been there. I can only say kudos to you for working this all out yourself. You have taken an empirical and scientific approach to sound, and it shows.

Forget everything I've said, all my rambling advice. I know you can work this out for yourself. You need just one thing:

A CLIPPER!

If you sent me your material you are having problems with, I would clip it for you and send it back. It would sound the same, but it would not be the same. I would share the plugins used to do the clipping and the settings, and you would see. That would work.

But GS, I have every faith you can take this to the next level and do this for yourself. I'm quite unusual in that I have spent a lot of time delving into DSP and talking with the developers. That really is quite rare, especially among producers. I'm no special snowflake, just someone that has taken the time. And I'm more than happy to share this with others.

Any questions, just fire away!

Post: #47

@UlteriorMotive

You can't EQ your way out of this!






This is just simply some of the best advice you can get. You might not understand it now. But it will open your mind up for later. This guy is a great teacher.

[sorry, wanted to edit it into the post above, but it wouldn't let me, but I think this really needs to be seen]

Post: #48

Great stuff Rigsby!

Thanks a ton for that.

Post: #49

(07-13-2016 08:25 PM)Rigsby Wrote:  *snip*

Very thorough, Rigsby. Thank you.

I will check out that clipper plug tonight and see what I can do with it. Also, if you're offering, I could send you a drum and guitar wav and see what you can do to clean it up and give it more room with clipping?

In my masters I generally use the limiter for functions similar to what you are talking about. I use to smash the track down to -0.1 DB and maximize everything. I'll use the limiter on each of my mix stems then use it on my master chain too... but as I said I still experienced muffled guitars and weak drums though I have gotten good loudness.

I've also recently transitioned to Reaper DAW from Pro Tools and there are a few built in functions and plugins from Avid that I've grown really accustomed to that I'm trying to find equivalents for in Reaper. Specifically a limiter that doesn't sound like garbage.

Post: #50

(06-08-2016 09:10 PM)General Mayhem Wrote:  I have been writing songs for as long as I can remember. For a period of time when I moved to the city I was on a terror writing songs as fast as I could write them down. I think I was naive and inexperienced enough with women where it was easy to write about it. I pushed myself to start playing publicly but then kinda crashed and life went in a different direction.

Every now and then I pick up my guitar just to see what comes out but there is still some mental blockage in my way. I've had AB's how to write a rock song advice stuck in my head for days and I'm trying it out. Like tonight I'm strumming and I write down two cool lines but then my cynical brain takes over and I smack into that wall. It's frustrating to have this problem when it used to come so easy to me. Maybe someone has some advice.

I've been writing and playing a long time, but have stopped for extended periods up to 2-3 years when in high stress situations like being in graduate school while working.

In the last few years I've been able to do mini-retirements of up to a year. ( my strategy with life is to work during the shitty years post-70 years old (if I'm alive--if not it doesn't matter and I was smart to retire earlier), and live it up in your last healthiest years 55-65 or earlier if you're smart enough to get set up faster. For me it helps that I have a health care license as they always need people and do less age discrimination.

In 2015 when I spent almost a year in SE Asia I found just resting enough from work burnout, so I would ease into each day, eating a leisurely breakfast idly wandering through the grocery store, playing just a little if and when I wanted, led to more and more playing because I simply wasn't doing anything else.

Virtually everyone in First World countries brags about how busy they are. If you are in that situation due to strategic necessity as I described above there's not much you can do, but if your creative dry spell is connected to a lifestyle of "Oh my gosh there's just not enough time to do anything," it's not rational to expect the fragile flower of creativity to flourish.

I think the machismo value system of we aspiring "alpha males" doesn't allow for much pampering of ourselves, and letting ourselves fully heal from the trials of economic warfare and work.

"Lift heavy, bite the bullet, and my poetic favorite, cowboy up." I find exercise helps my creativity, I'm not criticizing exercise, but being exhausted. If we are give up Art, in an default decision.

But not me. Art is what I was working for all along. I wrote many of my better songs in my 50s.

Rimbaud who I think may have been the youngest artist to revolutionize any field with the Drunken Boat written at 16 put it better than me ( of course): "Abobe all, laziness."