Post: #26

Just started BJJ, and feeling like OP, so I thought I'd bump this thread rather than start a new one. I used to do judo but about 4 months ago I was thrown HARD. I immediately knew something was wrong, but rather than just sitting out the rest of the class I got back onto my feet and kept doing randori. Weeks (and multiple physio sessions) later, I'm now almost ready to go back to judo, so I thought I'd give BJJ a try to ease my way back into grappling. What a shock to the system! Whilst I believe that judo is harder on the body than BJJ, I have to say jits is not far behind. My cervical spine and ribs are taking a beating. Bear in mind i'm in my 40s, and with time off for injuries, etc, I only have about 1 year of judo behind me.

Last week (my 4th week into it), I was rolling with a guy about 20 years younger than me but considerably heavier and a lot more experienced. He had all of his weight on my ribs. I didn't tap; not out of ego, but because my body was warm and the adrenaline was pumping so beside obvious discomfort I didn't really register any damage. However, on the drive home it felt like it had been hit with a sledgehammer in the abdominal area and ribs.

As an aside, before we rolled he asked me whether I had previously done in any other arts, and I mentioned I had some judo. Maybe he wanted to prove a point, I don't know.

Is this kind of discomfort normal for newbies? Does the body adjust? Also, did my opponent pull a dick move or is that a normal part of the game (bearing in mind I'm still a beginner)? Would I be regarded as a pussy if i asked him to take it easy on me next time round?

Post: #27

It is normal.
The body doesn't adjust, but the technique improves. You can ask to take it easy.

Post: #28

(06-07-2016 06:03 AM)Atticus Wrote:  As an aside, before we rolled he asked me whether I had previously done in any other arts, and I mentioned I had some judo. Maybe he wanted to prove a point, I don't know.

Possibly. Maybe he just felt that you moved well and figured you might have had some grappling experience already?

Quote:Is this kind of discomfort normal for newbies?

Yes. It's normal for non-newbies too.

The difference is that with experience you don't tense up as much, stay away from spazzy dudes, say "no" politely to people who you really don't want to roll with (unless it's a higher belt which can't be helped), and you learn to ease back into training after a lay off MUCH more gradually.

It took several painful re-entries after time off to realize that I was coming back with too much too soon.

Quote:Does the body adjust?

For the first week or two (or maybe even a month depending on how long you've been out of the game) it feels like you'll never adjust.

But you will.

Just heed your body, rest up, ice bath and don't do anything stupid!

Quote:Also, did my opponent pull a dick move or is that a normal part of the game (bearing in mind I'm still a beginner)? Would I be regarded as a pussy if i asked him to take it easy on me next time round?

Impossible to judge from afar without knowing your level, knowing his level and seeing the roll.

I'd say if you're uncertain whether it was a dick move, then it probably wasn't.

You're supposed to put a lot of pressure on dudes.

He wasn't grinding his forehead into your jaw and face and snarling, right?

He was just making you uncomfortable so you'd give him something.

If that's the case then no dick move.

But if it's a little too much for you, don't roll with him again for a while until you're back in the swing of it.

p.s. for anybody who's curious - I took double gold at the largest BJJ tourny in Southeast Asia a few weeks back in gi (day 1) and no gi (day 3). Also got flying triangled once (day 2).

That sucked but I still got my purple when I got back home.

Just goes to show you, if you hang in there good things will happen.

Osss

Post: #29

Thanks VV. I really appreciate your carefully considered response. Actually, your experiences were one of the things that inspired me to try it out. Very happy to hear that you are still kicking goals.

Post: #30

(09-07-2015 02:06 AM)VincentVinturi Wrote:  

(09-07-2015 12:33 AM)Atticus Wrote:  So, VV, did you end up quitting?
I only ask because I've just returned from a 5 week overseas holiday and the thought of heading back to Judo fills me with dread. Like you, my time off amazed me at how good my body felt; sleeping like a baby and in a perpetual state of readiness to fuck like a jackhammer.

On the other hand, I can't wait to hit the gym, lift weights and resume yoga. Right now, I'm thinking life is too short to do things that aren't 100% enjoyable, but the little voice inside my head is saying "softcock". If i do quite judo, I will most likely supplement my gym with at least one cardio boxing session a week. Not great for self defense, I know, but still good for explosiveness training. However, before I quit i just wanted to get an update. If you quit, any regrets, or no looking back?

I didn't quit. I've come too far and I love it too much.

I just focused on nutrition and sleep and pushed through the pain. Then my body adjusted and it was all good again. In fact, I competed on Saturday and took silver.

I honestly can't see ever quitting. Complaining about how much body hurts, yes. But quitting, never!

I'm late to this thread, but I can offer some advice for longevity in BJJ that has helped me cope with pain and injuries.

1) Take glucosimine/MSM Chondrontin for the joints. Don't get your knees scoped. It's not worth the damage.

2) Take glutamine and amino acids for muscle healing. (even if you are not lifting in a gym, you are lifting dudes and that still tears muscle fibers all the same)

3) Learn advanced stretches (Yoga is good for example). Use motion stretches and whole body stretches as well. Learn all the neck and back stretches and be religious about doing them before practice.

4) Come to practice early to stretch longer and warm up.

5) Drink enough water before practice, but not right before practice. A younger guy can get away with that, not forever though. (reason: cramps)

6) While others are rolling around (like King of the Hill), do light stretches off to the side.

7) Never be afraid to come to practice and just watch if you need a heal day. You can learn alot from watching, maybe even notice mistakes or things you miss while others are rolling around. Whole groups/teams tend to have their own "styles" as well as "bad habits".

8) When you get your brown belt, start the process of figuring out how to defeat a lower belt (in your weight class) within 5-10 submission attempts. Lots of Gracie/affiliates start training guys for this at different colors, but what I mean by this is whenever you get an actual attempt in, the opponent defends, then you transition into submission number 2, repeat ad nauseam. (eg. I go armbar, dude tosses my knees aside and rolls towards me, I transition his arm I still have into a Triangle Leg Choke, then he tosses my thigh aside, then I roll into an uma plata.) Some people call these Flows and some call these Baits. Everyone has their own words for this.

That's a simple beginner set, but when you get to Brown belt and black, you need to memorize around 7-15 of these in the right orders (and the several alternatives too!). This will help you avoid wearing your ass out like a white or blue belt forever. Essentially the spazzy guys you spoke about. Black and brown usually do not do stuff like that because it stops working on higher belt guys. Eventually they have to calm the fuck down too to continue progressing in BJJ. Concentrate more on your progressions more than trying to be King of the Hill for that night. It pays off in the end, big time.

9) Sounds crazy, but when you get brown or higher, start visiting high level black belts for private lessons, go to seminars with master level instructors. Get more cerebral about it. Even a very hands on learner like myself got alot better from merely learning tips from guys that are Abu Dhabi participants or winners. Work smarter, not harder. Unless you cage fight, there is no need to attend boot camp after boot camp. You will burn out on that stuff.

10) Don't wear too much gear. Think about the heat aspect. More heat will wear you down and give cramps and muscle tension. Gold weave gis, while more expensive are tougher than singles, almost as tough as a triple, but is lighter than a double. Get massages. You live in Thailand, should be cheap and easy to find.

I hope this helps and was not too much stuff you already know.

Post: #31

Question:

What are your prefered methods to improve your rolling when you only have access to lower belts? Try to finish using a single sub, go for subs from specific positions, start from bad positions?

Post: #32

(06-10-2016 02:38 PM)Ringo Wrote:  Question:

What are your prefered methods to improve your rolling when you only have access to lower belts? Try to finish using a single sub, go for subs from specific positions, start from bad positions?

Yep! You called it. Almost no lower belt will mind if you ask them to start on top of your back.

Other good starting positions:

1. In the Head to Head position on your knees (for both people), let them have your arm and they can start with their chest on top of the back of your head. See if you can reverse the position and put them into an Anaconda choke instead. They should be trying to get you into one too. An alternative is a modified flying armbar or Triangle from the head to head position.

2. Let them start past your guard in the full mount. (very hard, but great for bump & slide out escapes or the thigh shuck/toss over. See if you can shoot under their thighs and turn that into a legbar, like a Russian Sambo guy would do. Pretty hard to do to be honest with you. Hard to explain how to do it via typing too. Find your own flow intos that was just a suggestion.

3. You sit on your butt, they come behind you with a rear naked choke almost completed. Adjust the level of completeness to what their skill level is. If you do this with a purple belt, let him start with his arms around your chest or shoulders. Most decent ones would tap even a black belt if their arms are around the neck from the start. Try for a modified hip throw (from your knees) into a fast armbar.

4. Start from side mount, BUT let them put your arm in a keylock first, for either kimora, kesa gatami, or other arm locks. See if you can get out of it and reverse into an armlock or triangle leg choke.

5. One of my favorites would be to start chest to chest (north/south). Basically their head is pointing towards your legs. Do this with a Purple or advanced blue belt at least, because a white belt isn't savvy enough to spin correctly for armlocks or chokes from that position. That's pretty advanced stuff usually.

If they feel bad about starting like this, tell them it will help them learn how to finish an opponent better. (which is true) Sometimes they will beat you because after a while they figure out how to stop you from escaping or reversing your traps. Also it helps guys that "spazz" alot from flailing around like crazy and force them to concentrate since the hard part is not in play.

Premeditate what you want to shoot for and 1 or 2 alternatives, just in case he reacts differently. JiuJitsu/Ju Jitsu is the gentle way, like Judo. Don't make habits of strongarm pulling dudes into the proper position for something to work. Always follow the least path of resistance. If you find it waaay easier to lock them into something you did not plan prior, then you have a new wisdom you gained that works better for you.

Both people can win doing drills like this. It's how the black belts did me when I was a white belt. Nothing wrong with it at all. I used to do stuff like this on Saturdays or Fridays when no regular class is being ran. No pressure to hurry up before instruction or stay late while exhausted. No interruptions for organized practice, etc. Look at your dojo schedule for times that say "Open Mat" or something like that. All dojos should have Open Mat times for their guys.

Post: #33

Great post, TK. Thanks for the detailed explations.

Post: #34

TK's post reminds me of how I spar with guys who have less experience or less strength than I do.

However I like to do one thing differently, I wouldn't really tell them what I was doing and start from a neutral position. I liked to force them figure out different ways to get in while I put up maybe 30% resistance and then after they get me into a near sub position would I try to escape and then apply whatever move I was wishing to work on.

Will need to say though, that some guys despite a lack of experience still have the instincts to go hard when they see an opportunity. I have had to tap more than a few times when doing that, which I really enjoy because then it's 1 round of full strength to satiate my pride.

Post: #35

Off-topic slightly but do you guys travel with a Gi? Mine is heavy as fuck - wondering if it's worth it (I am only THINKING about getting back into martial arts when I return to Asia later this month) - I may, I may not. Think I'd actually be better off focusing on the gym instead a I have a lot of work to do.

Post: #36

I trained bjj on and off for 12 years now. Now that I am not regularly training I walk around and I am not constantly distracted by back or joint pain. The other main annoyance is skin porblems. Not just ringworm but gi burn and scratches and hickie looking things.

I replaced jiu jitsu with weight lifting and I feel great. The way jiu jitsu is practiced today with little emphasis on takedowns puts a beating on weak backs that are not strengthened like they would be if we worked standup and takedowns more. A lot of guard work these days, inverted in particular, puts an insane amount of pressure on the back. Joe Rogan commented on his podcast that regular chiropractic sessions are a requirement for any long term bjj practitioner

I do think that no gi is less harmful on the back and skin. Without a gi to grip, a lot of the positions that fuck up the back are much more uncommon. Also, no gi classes tend to include standup, in part because a lot of no gi practitioners are mma fighters. Grappling from the feet provides a more complete workout which will strength the entire body better than just jiu jistu.

These constant aches and pains were bearable because I was in love with and believed in jiu jitsu. Today I am not. I will still pop in a couple times a month for open roll, but training 3-4 days a week just isnt worth it to me anymore. Also its 10x more expensive than a regular gym membership.

Post: #37

(06-12-2016 11:35 AM)Sandstorm Wrote:  Off-topic slightly but do you guys travel with a Gi? Mine is heavy as fuck - wondering if it's worth it (I am only THINKING about getting back into martial arts when I return to Asia later this month) - I may, I may not. Think I'd actually be better off focusing on the gym instead a I have a lot of work to do.

Do you have a triple weave? If so, get a double or a gold and learn how to roll it up. I would probably roll up mine and tie it onto the bars of my carryon luggage that has wheels.

Post: #38