Post: #26

I'll ask you this.. why should girls stay glued in one place when you open them like that?

Post: #27

(06-05-2016 11:28 AM)XXL Wrote:  I'll ask you this.. why should girls stay glued in one place when you open them like that?

I've started using direct game.

Post: #28

(06-05-2016 11:33 AM)HornyRamone Wrote:  

(06-05-2016 11:28 AM)XXL Wrote:  I'll ask you this.. why should girls stay glued in one place when you open them like that?

I've started using direct game.

Good answer ; )

Post: #29

(06-05-2016 11:56 AM)XXL Wrote:  

(06-05-2016 11:33 AM)HornyRamone Wrote:  

(06-05-2016 11:28 AM)XXL Wrote:  I'll ask you this.. why should girls stay glued in one place when you open them like that?

I've started using direct game.

Good answer ; )

Indeed. Could you share your insight on my email situation (post #25)?

Post: #30

(06-05-2016 11:11 AM)HornyRamone Wrote:  Yesterday, I wrote to the girl who gave me her email. I told her how I applied to a teaching academy and asked her out for coffee sometime. She responded today, giving me more academy information and said she's in finals right now and "maybe we can do that in the future, when I finish all my work."

She's probably a bust, but should I ask for her number and call her in a couple of weeks or let it go?

Sounds like she isn't interested. How long does it take to go have a coffee? She plays on facebook more throughout the day than the 30-60 mins it would be to go out with you.

Post: #31

OK. How did you meet that email girl? Why she gave you her email in the first place?

Post: #32

(06-05-2016 12:11 PM)XXL Wrote:  OK. How did you meet that email girl? Why she gave you her email in the first place?

I explain in post #20.

Post: #33

If there was any kind of flirtation between you both then it may work out. If not then she probably feel like WTF cause she gave you her email for work based purposes not to continue interesting conversation with a man that she likes. That's what I think.

When she sends you whatever she meant to send you respond and engage her in a conversation online but don't hit on her. Don't even flirt too much. Just try to keep on talking to her and bait her to convey more of her personality so that you can know something about before making a move. Look for some kind of commonalities, shared interests etc that you can use to meet up with her again and base that meeting around thing you have in common. That's what I would do. It's a slow play and I mean slooooooooooooooooow play so don't be horny, Ramone.

Post: #34

(06-05-2016 12:54 PM)XXL Wrote:  If there was any kind of flirtation between you both then it may work out. If not then she probably feel like WTF cause she gave you her email for work based purposes not to continue interesting conversation with a man that she likes. That's what I think.

When she sends you whatever she meant to send you respond and engage her in a conversation online but don't hit on her. Don't even flirt too much. Just try to keep on talking to her and bait her to convey more of her personality so that you can know something about before making a move. Look for some kind of commonalities, shared interests etc that you can use to meet up with her again and base that meeting around thing you have in common. That's what I would do. It's a slow play and I mean slooooooooooooooooow play so don't be horny, Ramone.

This advice is gold. I re-flavored my email that was heavily flirtatious to vanilla.

Let my experience be a warning to other beginners not to fall solely into Krauser's Investment stage. My chatting and confidence were on par. I dropped bait, but there were no emotional highs, not much in the way of flirting or hooks. I got too comfortable with her and was too nice. Always go direct even with introverted, reserved girls from conservative cultures.

Fuck. I didn't want to take this slow. I wanted to be HornyRamone.

Post: #35

Let your experience be a warning not to follow anyone's prescripted advice cause it's all bullshit. There is no default method with checkpoints you can go just through and win. What you do is assess the situation and its context and adjust accordingly. Anyone who tells you otherwise is a fucking fraud. You still game but in a different way. It's like with driving a car. You can go from A to B on a highway or drive through a city full of stoplights, turns, traffic jams, etc. You're still the same person driving the same car but you adjust to the situation to get where you want.

Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING depends on the context of the interaction. By context I mean how you met, place and time, chemistry/sexual undertone, etc. There are many factors at play so

In your case, you met her by accident by her initiative, she was interested in something she was looking for professionally and caught her attention only cause she heard you speaking something. You conversation was rather formal, she gave you her email [very formal] for the same reason so the overall context was rather formal.

You can't suddenly start gaming this chick up cause she probably doesn't even view you this way. But you can spike her interest in different way, the way I mentioned and in the meantime in between the verses you can throw some flirt into the mix, you know, misinterpreting her answers, little innuendos, etc, as you get her talking and opening up you use what you have in common to take it further. You might even play all surprised saying that she seemed kind of stiff and the beginning but she actually isn't because you like how she blablabalbla...

PS. I'm writing based on what I know from your writing so take everything I say with a grain of salt.

Post: #36

If you are shooting for "elderly game" the complimenting her dress at all was the mistake.

My view is that throwing a compliment out there and then going back innocuous, less direct talk is a bad move- it's just the ineffective and regular approach that every dude out there does who isn't aware of game.

If you are going with a compliment on her appearance then that is direct, and you must continue with a direct approach.

If you are wanting to go with an "elderly game" approach then you don't compliment her looks, you keep it innocuous.

Once you mentioned her appearance you showed your hand, and going back to talking about random stuff doesn't put you under the radar, it just makes her see you as every other dude that wants her but doesn't try to close.

And as Dantes said, too many questions.

You may need a question to start things off but otherwise you should be filling it in with your ramble, making statements not asking questions. You may need to ask questions here and there to get her involved if she's not jumping in on her own, but if thats the case then it's likely she isn't interested anyway.

You should be able to get a feel for her fairly quickly and know whether to proceed at all, and the best way to do so.

Every situation is different.

Post: #37

Just gonna throw in my 2 cents... ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ask for the number!! Regardless of how the approach goes, if she starts with the "oh it was nice to meet you bla bla", do a quick qualifier/number close.

Like, "cool, well you seem like you have a really fun personality.. we're gonna hang out, what's your number".

I like this number close for two reasons:

1) you are qualifying (giving her a reason you're interested) her on something other than her looks like every other chode who doesn't know game.

2) "we're gonna hang out" is very confident. You're not asking, you're telling her.

So remember, ALWAYS ask for the number!! **The two exceptions are in social circle game or places like the gym/class/etc where you will be seeing them again. These situations you still want to get the number, but you have to judge the situation. Sometimes a slow play is better since you'll see them again.


So WHY do I say to ALWAYS get the number?? Well, you NEVER know which ones will text you back! You NEVER know. Sometimes you do a KILLER approach and everything goes right, and you think Hell yeah!! I got this one.... and then no response. Other times, you do just an ok approach or even a bad one, and for some reason the girl hits you back.

TLDR: ALWAYS go for the number!!!!!!

Post: #38

^^^^^ Glengary Glen Ross
Always be closing

Post: #39

The problem with the elderly opening is if your age shows then you get mistaken for an absent-minded, assistance-needing, old person. Once reason I really only use direct game. Only chicks that don't get hit on a lot can get opened with the indirect game because they arent use to guy approaching them a lot. Truly beautiful women, not nines and tens but sevens and eights get hit on all the time. Drop dead gorgeous women get hit on slightly less because their extreme beauty can often initimidate usually fearless approachers. These women know why you are talking to them and they don't respect indirect game most of the time- to them indirect game is a sign of not having confidence in your sexual market value, and hot women will subconciously, without any cognitive reasoning, just by the lack of tingles will have absorbed this fact. Your wasting both of your time with that approach, especially when they are in a relationship.

Let a woman know you are sexually interested and let her decide if attraction is there, if not, keep it moving. Hitting on hot women with no shame is what separates one from the pack. It takes a huge amount of confidence and swagger to walk casually up to one of the most beautiful woman you have seen and talk to her like you know you can have her if you want. They feel this and allow only those men who can separate themselves from the crowd to date and sleep with them.

Indirect game can work on the nerdy, book-type girls I prefer, often direct game with them is too powerful and too quick, and you can scare the cat.

Direct game is normally the way to go because the sooner you sexualize the situation the sooner you get the drawers.

Post: #40

You're supposed to ramble about your opener and drop bait until she asks you a question. This is all in day bang. You deviated from your opener immediately to a compliment and she then knew you were trying to pick her up. You raised her guard at the start of the interaction and not surprisingly she bailed soon after.

Post: #41

(07-02-2016 10:41 PM)AboveAverageJoe Wrote:  The problem with the elderly opening is if your age shows then you get mistaken for an absent-minded, assistance-needing, old person. Once reason I really only use direct game. Only chicks that don't get hit on a lot can get opened with the indirect game because they arent use to guy approaching them a lot. Truly beautiful women, not nines and tens but sevens and eights get hit on all the time. Drop dead gorgeous women get hit on slightly less because their extreme beauty can often initimidate usually fearless approachers. These women know why you are talking to them and they don't respect indirect game most of the time- to them indirect game is a sign of not having confidence in your sexual market value, and hot women will subconciously, without any cognitive reasoning, just by the lack of tingles will have absorbed this fact. Your wasting both of your time with that approach, especially when they are in a relationship.

Let a woman know you are sexually interested and let her decide if attraction is there, if not, keep it moving. Hitting on hot women with no shame is what separates one from the pack. It takes a huge amount of confidence and swagger to walk casually up to one of the most beautiful woman you have seen and talk to her like you know you can have her if you want. They feel this and allow only those men who can separate themselves from the crowd to date and sleep with them.

Indirect game can work on the nerdy, book-type girls I prefer, often direct game with them is too powerful and too quick, and you can scare the cat.

Direct game is normally the way to go because the sooner you sexualize the situation the sooner you get the drawers.

They already suspect you are interested in them to some degree just because you are talking to them. Why give them the same validation off the bat that they get from 95% of guys when you can leave a little doubt in her mind to suck her in?

Direct game isn't going to work unless she perceives you to clearly be of higher value than she is. The whole point of game is bringing a girl from a state of neutral interest/indifference to strong interest. You're not going to lose a girl who's super into you just because you go indirect for 5-10 minutes. This isn't a girl at a club or a party, odds of getting an instadate and a bang are incredibly low.

I understand the point of communicating that you are a sexual guy early on, but there's no reason you need to do more than drop occasional innuendo and get some minor touching going if you're just getting a phone number.

Post: #42

(07-05-2016 01:10 AM)Razor Beast Wrote:  

(07-02-2016 10:41 PM)AboveAverageJoe Wrote:  The problem with the elderly opening is if your age shows then you get mistaken for an absent-minded, assistance-needing, old person. Once reason I really only use direct game. Only chicks that don't get hit on a lot can get opened with the indirect game because they arent use to guy approaching them a lot. Truly beautiful women, not nines and tens but sevens and eights get hit on all the time. Drop dead gorgeous women get hit on slightly less because their extreme beauty can often initimidate usually fearless approachers. These women know why you are talking to them and they don't respect indirect game most of the time- to them indirect game is a sign of not having confidence in your sexual market value, and hot women will subconciously, without any cognitive reasoning, just by the lack of tingles will have absorbed this fact. Your wasting both of your time with that approach, especially when they are in a relationship.

Let a woman know you are sexually interested and let her decide if attraction is there, if not, keep it moving. Hitting on hot women with no shame is what separates one from the pack. It takes a huge amount of confidence and swagger to walk casually up to one of the most beautiful woman you have seen and talk to her like you know you can have her if you want. They feel this and allow only those men who can separate themselves from the crowd to date and sleep with them.

Indirect game can work on the nerdy, book-type girls I prefer, often direct game with them is too powerful and too quick, and you can scare the cat.

Direct game is normally the way to go because the sooner you sexualize the situation the sooner you get the drawers.

They already suspect you are interested in them to some degree just because you are talking to them. Why give them the same validation off the bat that they get from 95% of guys when you can leave a little doubt in her mind to suck her in?

Not if you are using indirect game/elderly opener they don't.

Quote:Direct game isn't going to work unless she perceives you to clearly be of higher value than she is. The whole point of game is bringing a girl from a state of neutral interest/indifference to strong interest. You're not going to lose a girl who's super into you just because you go indirect for 5-10 minutes. This isn't a girl at a club or a party, odds of getting an instadate and a bang are incredibly low.

I understand the point of communicating that you are a sexual guy early on, but there's no reason you need to do more than drop occasional innuendo and get some minor touching going if you're just getting a phone number.

How is a girl you have never met or spoken to going to be "super in to you" just because you asked her where the pet shop is for 5-10 minutes? OP clearly states his indirect openings are not getting him anywhere. These chicks are clearly not "super into" him or his indirect openers. If it ain't working, why not fix it? Fix it by going direct, thus saving time, thus allowing for more targets to be approached in the same amount of time. Knowing when to go direct and when to "beat around the bush" will only happen from trial and error and self analysis of one's game and the results thereof.
Figure out what you did right when successful and what you did wrong when blown out then adjust and recalibrate your game as needed. If these girls are leaving too quickly it is because there is no chemistry or attraction occuring. If there was they would be staying around until you decide the interaction is over. Not only should one remember his ABC's and Always Be Closing, but you should always be the one to end the presentation, not her. Rambling on about nothing until a girl finally tells you she has to leave is not solid game.

Make the introduction, engage in some light flirting/negging/small-talk, go for the close (either insta-date or contact info) then tell the girl you have to go because some babies in a burning building need to be saved or you are having a business lunch with Mark Cuban. Anything that says "Hey, it was cool to meet you but I haver other more important shit to do than be here talking to you. I will holler at you and we will hang out some time soon." Basically, because the OP is not building attraction, he is letting the women decide when the interaction is over. These dynamics will never work. OP needs to let these women know whats up, that he sees them as a potential sexual partner, get the contact info then bounce. Giving the women the opportunity to decide when they have had enough of the OP's indirect rambling is not working. Maybe if the attraction was occuring but it clearly is not. They are getting bored and want to get back to their smartphones because playing Candy Crush is more exciting than hearing and old guy try to pretend he isn't talking you just because he wants to fuck you.

Given the high flake rates on just getting a phone number, an instadate is the best way to get the same-day bang. How can you segue to an instadate with an indirect, elderly opener? You can't. Direct game allows for this because your intentions have already been made clear. There is a time for indirect game as all cats need to be skinned accordingly. Indirect game, if used always, is analagous to approach anxiety because you really aren't approaching if you aren't making clear your sexual intentions. You are just small-talking with strangers for a few minutes. This non-approach is clearly not getting results for the OP.

Go direct or go home. Your game will thank you.

Post: #43

Indirect game leads nowhere when it stays indirect from start to finish. At some point you have to express your interest in a girl and baiting a girl to do it for you is no way to play the game. That trick can only provoke her to say anything and contribute something to the conversation on her own [it's not even real interest, it's just knee jerk reaction] that she can give you new threads to but that's only one method out of plenty.

(07-06-2016 08:40 AM)AboveAverageJoe Wrote:  How can you segue to an instadate with an indirect, elderly opener? You can't.

Please, it absolutely can and it's very easy. It's actually easier to convey an interest in a girl after first few moments/minutes of small talk [more information, she's more familiar with you, etc] than hitting on her from the get go.

(07-06-2016 08:40 AM)AboveAverageJoe Wrote:  Indirect game, if used always, is analagous to approach anxiety because you really aren't approaching if you aren't making clear your sexual intentions. You are just small-talking with strangers for a few minutes

I love that "it doesn't count when you small talk first before letting her know you like her" argument, cracks me up every time I see it

No man, it's fine, it doesn't matter how you open or what you say at first and it doesn't mean someone it anxious just because chat up with something random, etc. All it matters how you lead it and where you go with it. I can ask a girl for a time and once she looks at her phone I'll comment on it and somehow make it relevant to her which will get her to respond to me so we can start flirting. Or I can talk to her about that phone for 3 minutes and after that time tell her that she looks more like a classic iGirl at first glance which will also make her wonder why [girls are curious creatures] to which I can respond with another cold read or push/pull and now we're flirting so it can snowball from there.

There's time and place for everything. You gotta be flexible and ready to use any tool at your disposal, any time, anywhere. My point is that sooner or later a girl has to feel that intent and some guys do it sooner some later but it's fine cause it's only a personal decision or style.

Post: #44

OP is having trouble not because indirect openers are inefficient. It is because he's asking questions that neither he nor the girl cares about, is asking too many questions and is not talking about himself. He'd do better if the women weren't moving too.

Women are socially savvy. If some guy is talking to her after the initial question has been answered, asking her personal questions, telling her personal things about himself and not asking her for money or selling her something, she is going to think you are interested. The fact that she is answering your personal questions and talking to you instead of leaving is good evidence that she's interested.

As far as indirect vs. direct, I've gotten much better results from indirect. There's a time and place for direct but if you sense the girl has time to talk, I'd go with indirect.