Post: #1601

etwsake its normal to have negative or even depressing thoughts. The wagon is not always easy even after a year. Its good you had the self restraint to keep your sobriety today.

If I could recommend something to help you it would be to read "Gorrilla Mindset." One of the chapters discusses self talk. Essentially the way you were talking about yourself with lines like, "I'm a fat fuck with no future", is the worst kind of self talk you can do. As Mike says in the book, if you talked to your friends they way you talk about yourself you wouldn't have any friends.

Most of the problems you brought up such as being overweight or a "loser" are things you can change. While it wont happen overnight if you change your mindset and improve your lifestyle habits you can make sustained, positive changes in a short time to your life.

Post: #1602

etwsake,

The intense emotions of self-loathing that you are feeling are the result of certain thoughts. You feel a certain way because you think a certain way.

Instead of just trying to change the way you feel, you should examine those thoughts. Are they really true, and justified? Are they rational? Or are they completely irrational and persist because they've never been examined, but you just accept them and take them for granted.

Here are some examples:

You're fat, and have gained 30 pounds in the past 2 months as you say.

Here are your thoughts:

-- It is a disaster to be so fat. It's a catastrophic situation that MUST not be
-- I'll always be fat and will never be able to lose weight. So the catastrophe continues and there is no hope.

Now, are these thoughts TRUE?

No, they're not. Here is the reality:

First, being fat is not ideal -- it is better for your health and looks to have a normal weight. So it's unfortunate.

But just because it's unfortunate, is it a CATASTROPHE, is it a DISASTER? No, it sure isn't. People who are fat can have perfectly good and enjoyable lives. There are many successful people, politicians, actors, scientists, whatever, -- as well as just normal people -- who are fat. It's not ideal but is it the end of the world? Of course not. It's really not the worst problem to have.

You have to understand that this is the TRUTH: being fat is not ideal, but it's also not a life-ending disaster. You always thought it was a shameful catastrophe, but it just isn't. You need to examine the irrational thought that leads to these feeling of shame and despair.

There are other things:

You probably think that being fat shows that you have no ability to control yourself -- you overeat and can't control that, and this is SHAMEFUL and shows that you are a loser who has no willpower. And this is some sort of disaster.

Guess what -- again, you are catastrophizing the situation. It may be true that you've had little self-control with respect to this. So fucking what? It's not the end of the world. Yes, it's a flaw -- it would be better if you had more self-control. But is it a disaster, a catastrophe, a reason for your life to end because it's so shameful? Of course not, in fact that is a LAUGHABLE idea. But you believe it because you've never once considered that it might just be wrong.

Further, you believe that because things have been a certain way in the past, they can never change in the future. Again, this is just objectively not true. Things can and do change sometimes, it may not be easy and it may take a number of tries but it does happen. You think, oh but it can never happen to me, I'm a LOSER. Well maybe, but how can you be so sure? What is it that allows you to know the future all the way to the end? Are you a seer and a prophet as well as a "loser"? You just "know" it will never change. HOW do you know that?

And again, suppose it never changes. Suppose you always remain fat, suppose you don't achieve some other goals. Does that mean that you can't enjoy your life in other ways? Of course not. If you let go of your self-loathing and just RELAX you could enjoy it a great deal. You don't have to win every battle. It's best to address a flaw; but sometimes it can be accepted. Either way, it's not a catastrophe, you're just making it into one.

All you really need to do is not drink alcohol because that IS a path that can quickly become something like a catastrophe. There are ways to come back from that as well but it's best to just not go down that path. And of course there is no need to.

You may benefit from reading the following thread about REBT/CBT and reading Albert Ellis' "Guide to Rational Living". All these extreme emotions are the result of irrational ideas and bad habits of thought; if you challenge and dispute the irrational ideas, the emotions will change as well:

/thread-28873.html

I hope you find these thoughts to be of some use.

Post: #1603

(06-02-2016 12:17 AM)etwsake Wrote:  I'm so fucking miserable. I hate myself. I don't want to be awake anymore.

I'm a fat fuck with no future. I gained THIRTY POUNDS in the last two months. I give up. I fucking give up.

etwsake, last fall, after three and a half years on the wagon. I basically cratered. I shut myself in my house and just started eating. Every night I would go to the store and buy ice cream and other shit and sit and eat, after starving myself all day to try and rectify the previous nights binge. I did this for months. I don't even know how much weight I gained but I went up three pant sizes.

Finally, during December I had had enough. I reached a point that maybe you have reached now. A breaking point of extreme dissatisfaction. I was supposed to be conquering the world now that I was sober and I had basically put myself in solitary confinement. It didn't help that my job was virtual and i worked at home. I had created a prison of my own design.

So, in late December I said that anything is better than this and one day, in a similar way to when I started my wagon I made a change and quit the nightly binging. In January I quit my job, which was a very good situation for me, and took a job in construction which would get me out of the house and more active. I started in late January and the first month nearly killed me. In February I got sick as I was pushing myself too hard and it turned into Pneumonia which I spent about six weeks getting over while working and constantly coughing up shit.

All I did was work and sleep. I started the light box therapy. I cut my caffeine intake which was a trigger for me.

After three months I started to feel strong. I lost weight and started feeling stronger.

Unexpectedly the company I was working for shut down my area of work and I was unemployed.

I have been unemployed almost five weeks. Occasionally doing some freelance work. But now I am not making myself a prisoner in my own home. I am breaking old, old habits.

I tried the rapid fat loss system that has a thread in the forum. But have not been able to stay on it especially since I can't afford to buy high quality protein.

Last week I had a morning that was not going well and I just decided that I needed to get out of the house. I packed a backpack and went to a lake and hiked for a few hours. I immediately felt better.

I'm still working to lose the weight I gained last year. I'm feeling better most days but not all.

G

Post: #1604

While I haven't officially committed, I am seriously considering it now.

Yesterday I had a couple beers with some buddies, and drank too much. For some reason, my intestine doesn't react well to binge drinking and it showed me how painful this can be (this and spicy food). After spending 1 hour sitting on the throne, I started to meditate about the positive effects of drinking beer, which are virtually none, except "fitting in" with the buddies.

For those who have taken the wagon: Did you stop all kinds of alcohol, or do you sometimes enjoy a cup of wine with a good dinner out?

Post: #1605

Rawmeo, the wagon means, by definition, not one drink or one sip of alcohol, of any kind, for any reason, 24/7, for a period of 1 year. No exceptions for weddings, funerals, celebrations, good days, bad days, nights in or nights out. You get the idea.

Someone who has a glass of wine with dinner every once in a while is a moderate drinker. Nothing wrong with that, but it's not being on the wagon.

Men who are moderate drinkers by nature or habit can go on being moderate drinkers -- they don't need the wagon, and they probably never think about it in any case. For men who have drunk too hard for too long, to the point where they are starting to take -- or are about to take -- some real damage from it, both of the obvious and of the less obvious kinds, a complete and extended break for a minimum period of 1 year is best. That's what this thread is for.

Post: #1606

Lizard.

What about drinking Old Milwaukee? I've been strong the last 5 months, but thursday I wanted to feel the consistency and flavor of beer and drank 2 cans.

Want to know what you think about in relation with the wagon.

Post: #1607

(06-04-2016 10:04 AM)dopvlur Wrote:  Lizard.

What about drinking Old Milwaukee? I've been strong the last 5 months, but thursday I wanted to feel the consistency and flavor of beer and drank 2 cans.

Want to know what you think about in relation with the wagon.

Of course, Old Milwaukee is fine. I forgot to mention that's the only permitted exception.

Nice trolling there bud, LOL. I got a kick out of it.

Post: #1608

Thanks. Now I think the need of beer in my brain is wired to the taste instead of alcohol. Found this spot in my city that serves beer from all around the world and Old Milwaukee.

Post: #1609

(06-03-2016 11:37 PM)Rawmeo Wrote:  While I haven't officially committed, I am seriously considering it now.

Yesterday I had a couple beers with some buddies, and drank too much. For some reason, my intestine doesn't react well to binge drinking and it showed me how painful this can be (this and spicy food). After spending 1 hour sitting on the throne, I started to meditate about the positive effects of drinking beer, which are virtually none, except "fitting in" with the buddies.

For those who have taken the wagon: Did you stop all kinds of alcohol, or do you sometimes enjoy a cup of wine with a good dinner out?

After a while on the wagon, I noticed that I just don't want to drink the odd glass of wine. It actually gets to the point where you sniff it and it smells bad. There are literally no advantages to drinking.

I started in September and about mid way through the ski season after a particularly stressful exam, I tried a couple of glasses of hot wine. It was foul. At that point, I knew the game was up and I wasn't going back.

I now get the urge to have a beer every now and then but I realise that it's just dehydration.

Post: #1610

(06-06-2016 01:46 AM)Ski pro Wrote:  After a while on the wagon, I noticed that I just don't want to drink the odd glass of wine. It actually gets to the point where you sniff it and it smells bad. There are literally no advantages to drinking.

I started in September and about mid way through the ski season after a particularly stressful exam, I tried a couple of glasses of hot wine. It was foul. At that point, I knew the game was up and I wasn't going back.

I now get the urge to have a beer every now and then but I realise that it's just dehydration.

Two weeks in, and I have a similar feeling. A day goes by and I hardly even think about drinking alcohol. Yesterday, I passed through the wine / beer section (a big one) in a local supermarket and just wondered, am I actually going to *want* one some day.

If only there was a better selection of non-alcoholic drinks in cafés and restaurants where I am (Prague). I'm not going to drink soda, I can only drink so much tea, and so it's usually just water. Come to think of it, water is just fine.

Post: #1611

Thanks again to everyone not only for witnessing my meltdown, but actually giving me some real, honest encouragement that really helped me get through a truly shitty weekend.

I'm embarrassed about being such a bitch in public, but I experience moments of true despair and it seems hopeless. Thankfully, I managed to keep myself together enough to know that drinking wasn't gonna help. Oh, I'm sure it would have been awesome for a few hours...even a whole day. But the aftermath would be so much worse than what I was already feeling. I was so damn close though...but thankfully something inside me wouldn't let me ruin the progress I've made. No matter how shitty I felt, I didn't want that "one year, one month, 2 weeks" to turn into "3 hours without a drink." I don't want to have to go back to that.

Best thing I did was get back in the gym yesterday after work. I hadn't been in there for weeks....managed to gain a shitload of weight, ate more junk food than I'd ever want to admit. But as soon as I started sweating from lifting yesterday it's like the clouds started to part. All day today my arms burned and I haven't felt that in forever. I will not be skipping the gym anymore.

Thanks again gentlemen. And thanks for the private messages too. I am very grateful....you guys made a huge difference and I appreciate it.

Post: #1612

(06-04-2016 10:11 AM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

(06-04-2016 10:04 AM)dopvlur Wrote:  Lizard.

What about drinking Old Milwaukee? I've been strong the last 5 months, but thursday I wanted to feel the consistency and flavor of beer and drank 2 cans.

Want to know what you think about in relation with the wagon.

Of course, Old Milwaukee is fine. I forgot to mention that's the only permitted exception.

Nice trolling there bud, LOL. I got a kick out of it.

When we were teenagers I had a buddy who was the only one of us with a Fake ID and for some reason he was obsessed with Old Milwaukee, and the pin up girls on the cans.

Man did we ever drink a lot of that shit, brings back good memories. Once we had one of those weekends after high school graduation at someone's cabin, it was in Interior British Columbia. I vividly recall ten cases of OM were bought because it was cheaper than the Old Style Pilsner at the local liquor store, we got absolutely shit housed at the lake in the day then made our way into town. I ended up picking up some local girl from the bar that night, my first ever bar pick up. She was no stunner but we all had a good laugh the next day!

The hardest thing about quitting drinking by far is knowing that liquor-fuelled memories like that will never be relived. Yes, my life has improved in so many ways without drinking, but it has come with the cost of cutting out a good amount of my social life. It almost feels like I wasted all that time drinking in the first place because once I started drinking when I was like 16, I finally fit in with others, and now I'm back at square 1. But the best thing I have gotten from this thread is imagining the Lizard of Oz on my shoulder, telling me that it is indeed OK to cherish those memories of my youth, but to realize that I did hit the mid 20s-diminishing returns of drinking, that I cannot drink in moderation, and I must start a new chapter in my life. I have been to plenty of AA meetings since I have family in the program, and to hear everyone discuss the misery of drinking baffles me, it never got that far. Maybe it would have, but it's impossible to relate. Instead, all I can do is look back with fondness at those good times, but to now try to recreate moments today, armed with only my own sober mind, that I'll look back at in a decade and smile a little inside.

Post: #1613

I should really get on board with this. My drinking is out of fucking control. It's not even fun anymore; I don't go out. I drink at home, alone. I actually prefer it that way. I'm going through over a handle a week at the moment. I pretty much drink right when I get home, through till I pass out (on the days I'm not rehearsing).


I fear the idea of not drinking. A buddy of mine who's a die hard AA guy was trying to convince me I am an alchy. He said "Can you imagine not drinking for a month? If that doesn't sound doable, you're probably an alcoholic."

I blew him off because at the time I wasn't drinking heavily. At the time I was recovering from another addiction; Heroin. After my recovery I started drinking a bit. That was over two years ago. You gotta understand, when you're emerging from a lifestyle of holed up in a room nodding out (and kicking when you can't score) going out and drinking and approaching chicks seems like a step in the right direction. So I ended up forgetting my past troubles by going out all the time and getting shit faced. Two years later I'm still doing it, minus the going out...and it's lost its appeal. That being said I still can't seem to say the words "I'm going to stop drinking"

Post: #1614

^Great post thanks for honesty.

I knew my drinking was getting fucked when I started preferring to drink alone too. I was worried about what other people would think of me when I'd get blackout wasted. And I knew that if I was home alone, I probably wouldn't do something stupid like do drugs or drink and drive. It's a serious rabbit hole....

I don't know about the whole disease concept of alcoholism, I think it's almost crass to compare it to a real disease like Parkinson's or something. But what I did start to realize is that there was something different about me... You know when you and some buddies go out for pints after work and after two beers everyone just leaves and moves on with their lives? I found that hard to do... I would either just keep drinking or spend the rest of the night with this really uncomfortable feeling... Like I had sold myself short. I always wondered... Do other people feel like that? Not many, but some people do.

I know that AA is unpopular and most people look down on it, but there are a couple things that helped me out:
-After I went to my first meeting, I had basically admitted I needed help. Every time I drank afterwards, I did feel pretty guilty. It was a big step psychologically. It's like I lost my innocence.
-My first few meetings were so uncomfortable. But once I got into a routine and met a couple cool older guys there who were really nice to me, I started to feel a bit more comfortable. There was some old Navy seal quote "being comfortable in uncomfortable situations" which clicked with me. Now that I'm relatively OK with walking into meetings and talking to people there they aren't so bad. It's helped me in regular life too, I don't feel too tripped out about situations that I found really awkward before.
-There is all that AA bullshit "my name is komatiite and I'm an alcoholic", higher power, blah blah blah. All these fucked up people like women who cannot overcome the guilt of drinking while pregnant or some guy who just whines about his wife or boss the whole time. I've found that 95% of the shit I hear in there is redundant, exaggerated, disingenuous or boring but there is always one dude who says something real thay clicks with me. Usually someone like an old and wise Native American dude who overcame all the horror stories you hear about on the reservation or there was this one dude who was blackout drunk and killed a little kid driving when he was a teenager, but genuinely wanted to share how badly his life was fucked up and hoped that by telling his story that someone may second guess their decision to drink. That sort of thing really opened my eyes...

Anyways I hope im not sounding like some AA preacher, I don't even go to meetings that much anymore, sort of died off after six months clean. But I think they helped me get out of my head in the first few months. I'm only at 10 months but I'm at peace with the decision to not drink now so they clearly helped in some regard. But don't discount how much a night in and reading this thread can help. Beyond Borders, Lizard of Oz, Charlemagne, Tokyo Joe etc all have great insights that have helped me in various ways. And check out DeliciousTacos blog... I've read this post a hundred times.

https://delicioustacos.com/2014/02/16/we...powerless/

After reading that I realized I don't have to take myself so seriously... Its just fucking quitting drinking, Komatiite!

Good luck man, it doesn't matter how you do it, whether you read the wisdom in the thread, talk to a relative or friend who conquered their demons, go to a meeting... You already kicked heroin, you got this, if you do decide to quit drinking one day... One day at a time

Post: #1615

Im closing in on the 6 month mark. The biggest thing I notice is I utilize my time much better.

Post: #1616

New wagon is 6/3/2016.

After my two and a half month wagon, I was drinking maybe once per weekend. Then after a few weeks, I was drinking two or three times per weekend. I was still focused on my fitness so then I ended up starving my self on Mon-Wed so my calories would balance out with the bender that would inevitably occur Thurs-Sun. It took less than three months to fall completely back into my old habits. I wasn't getting fat but I was putting a huge strain on my body and sanity. I had a weekend were I was fading in and out of a blackout for three straight days. No special occasion, I just had three days off work. I had left my tab open when I blacked out at 9 pm and stumbled home. I woke up and couldn't find my debit card. I retraced my steps to the last bar with one of my buddies, and we just left the tab open and started drinking and playing pool. It was only around 10:30 am.

I realized I couldn't keep doing this. I pulled out Allen Carr's Easy Way book and decided I should give it a reread. About half way through I had an "Aha" moment. Everything finally started making sense.

The first time I joined the wagon I was using the willpower method. I was getting cravings and would try to avoid things that might make me start drinking again. After the second read of Carr's book, the pitcher plant and all his analogies finally clicked. I realized the only reason to ever drink was the same as the only reason to ever smoke: because you are addicted. The first time I read it was a warm up of sorts to his method. I was still in denial and not quite ready to quit drinking. After trying the wagon, failing, and falling deeper than I was before the break, I realized I wasn't above addiction. I was finally ready to read his book with an open mind.

I can now safely and confidently declare that I am cured from the alcohol trap due to the Easy Way method. It's only been 11 days, but they've been the most free days of my life since childhood. I don't view life as a series of events between drinks anymore. I'm in for the one year but I revel in the fact that I no longer have to drink alcohol. It's funny now because I even notice statements made by alleged "casual drinkers" that prove they are just as addicted as us former binge/heavy drinkers.

It's almost as if I just hit a restart button on life. It is a truly great feeling.

I'll be referring Allen Carr to anyone and everyone until the day I die. It feels great to be cured.

Post: #1617

(06-14-2016 07:20 PM)wi30 Wrote:  It feels great to be cured.

wi30,

Please realize that no one is "cured" 11 days into the wagon, and that you can't short-circuit the actual work of the wagon by simply proclaiming that all the work has been done.

You are not in a position to "safely and confidently declare" anything, except the shamefaced acknowledgement that you abandoned your previous try rather quickly and that you'll need to do better this time. No more declarations of any kind until you're at least 6 months in, at which point you should still "declare" nothing whatsoever other than your continuing commitment.

You will need to learn some modesty, humility, and realism; and the wagon will teach you that, over time, if you can muster the will to stick to it. It's certainly up to you but pretending that it will be easy, and is as good as done, does not help you in any way.

Welcome aboard as of June 3, 2016 and I hope to hear more from you on this thread as time goes on.

Post: #1618

I haven't had a single drip of booze since January 9.

Without coming out sounding too cocky or overconfidient I'm going to hold my horses in telling you how bloody amazing I feel and how well my life is proceeding in general.

At this point I can't see what event would cause me to have a drink again.

Post: #1619

LOZ, I'm a firm believer in Allen Carr's methods. Not everybody is. That's cool. To each his own.

Maybe I'm bullshitting myself and letting myself become brainwashed by his book. In his words, I'm actually counter-brainwashing what society has thrown in my face since birth. Well, who really cares which one is true if my desire to drink is gone? Once the belief that there is absolutely no benefit of drinking whatsoever other than addiction is ingrained, the desire completely disappears.

No more willpower, no more counting days on a calendar. I'm not trying to come across as cocky. I'm following the Carr method to a tee.

I'm not religious and can't stand all the AA powerlessness stuff. I'm also not into group sessions or therapy. I tried listening to a couple sobriety podcasts but all they did was wallow in self pity about how they're one drink away from rock bottom. What a terrible way to live. I'd rather listen to podcasts that are going to improve my future, not dwell on my past.

Maybe Carr was completely full of shit. I don't care though, because my desire to drink is gone. We are all trying to reach the same destination. Who cares if I took a different train to get there?

Post: #1620

wi30,

Its good that you found Carr's book helpful, as did I. However, I don't think you can fully grasp the difficulties of the wagon until you spend more time in sobriety. Even with Carr's book as a tool to change your mindset on booze, it is still a difficult thing to override the habits associated with drinking when you have been a hard drinker for a long time. The time you do on the wagon will speak for if you have been cured of the desire to drink. And I sincerely wish you good luck.

Post: #1621

I had never heard of Alan Carr until he was mentioned several times in this thread.

I was curious so I checked out the Quit Smoking book. I'm a non-smoker. I've never smoked. I definitely have addictions, but smoking has never been one of them. I just really wanted to see what this guy could possibly say to earn such praise.

It basically boiled down to "You know smoking is bad for you and you don't like it, so decide to stop smoking forever." I couldn't believe all the positive reviews on amazon. Apparently it really WORKS for a lot of people. I can't say cause I'm a non-smoker. I'd really like one of my smoking friends to read it and see if it does anything for them.

So after this was successful, I guess Carr expanded his empire to "Quit Drinking." I didn't read that one.

But I flipped through his "Quit Overeating" book. It says "What if I told you that you can eat as much as you want and lose weight and feel healthy?" OK Alan...I'm intrigued....go on. Well here's the catch: you can only eat vegetables. Yes. That was his brilliant strategy. No more meat, no pizza, no pasta, no chocolate, no bread. Just eat vegetables. Eat as many as you want. And the bottom line is the same as the smoking book: "You know junk food is bad for you and don't REALLY like it, so just decide to stop eating it forever."

Now is it just me....or was this Alan Carr guy totally full of shit? I don't know...maybe his approach works for cigarettes. But saying that about food is just plain insulting. Can you imagine paying money to this guy thinking he's gonna help you and he says "Yeah...stop eating junk food and just eat vegetables. You're cured!"

Post: #1622

etwsake, I've only read "Easy Way to Control Alcohol". I've never been a smoker so I didn't bother reading that one. I also didn't know he had other books regarding overeating. So I can only comment on my experience with his book on alcohol.

I'm 25 so I don't have the decades of hard drinking that some of the guys on this thread have experienced. I had my first drink at 15, drank recreationally throughout high school, and drank on average 5-7 nights per week in college. My drinking went from being a hard partier in college to being a solitary alcoholic who comes home from work with a case of beer and drinks into oblivion. It went from a fun social habit to a depressing addiction very quickly. I know a few guys in their early thirties who were deeper into the rabbit hole and sort of saw a fork in my life. I could either become a broke 50 year old with a big red nose who lost his girlfriend, friends, and family, or I could get my shit together and make something out of my life. I became miserable when I didn't get my fix and felt guilty and shitty when I did.

I used to think drinking was the coolest thing in the world. I thought I was such a badass for out drinking all my buddies, even the bigger guys. I tied my ego into this view of myself. I was known in college as that guy who always had a beer in his hand. I was always the drunkest guy at a party. And I thought getting fucked up was the coolest and that I was manly for doing so. I was also the guy who would try to get people to drink more to get on my level by pouring more drinks and buying shots. I'd constantly call out non drinkers and be an all around dick.

When I tried the wagon the first time, I was counting the days. The benefits of sobriety were shadowed by this feeling of missing out. I was trying to use willpower and was restraining myself. I would tell myself that I couldn't have my precious booze. I wasn't allowed to. No wonder it only lasted 2 or so months. Even with the discipline of a monk, I can't imaging lasting a few months longer with that mindset. When you are restricting your desires like that, you're setting yourself up for failure.

And that's exactly why Carr's book resonated so well with me. It allowed me to see that alcohol isn't some magical elixir that adds value to my life, it's a deadly poison that has absolutely no benefits whatsoever. We've all been brainwashed since birth to believe that alcohol is cool and okay in moderation. But what is moderation? Someone who drinks less than you is a pussy and someone who drinks more than you has a serious problem. The whole concept is insanity.

So when I hit a lower rock bottom than before, I had that feeling of hopelessness and finally admitted to myself that I had a problem. I picked up his book and read it a second time. While reading, I had an epiphany. Why am I putting myself through this hell when I'm not even deriving any benefits or pleasure? Hell, most of my problems I tried to solve with alcohol were caused by alcohol in the first place. You wouldn't use more arsenic to cure arsenic poisoning, would you?

There is so much contradicting information regarding alcoholism it's hard to find something that works for you. I read one article that explained how it's called "alcoholism" not "alcoholwasm" explaining how you are forever an alcoholic and one drink away from utter destruction. Carr goes into detail disproving the theory of the alcoholic vs. the casual drinker. Everyone is standing in quicksand, but some are sinking faster than others.

Another point that resonated well with me was that heroin addicts know that it isn't natural to inject drugs into their veins. Smokers know on some level that it's not natural to inhale toxic fumes. But drinking liquids is necessary to stay alive. That's what makes it harder to realize you have a problem with alcohol.

Instead of playing the victim and calling myself an alcoholic the rest of my life, I'm going to take a proactive approach and view myself as someone who escaped the alcohol trap. I'm not going to go to meetings and and I'm not going to wallow in self pity. The D&P podcasts have some good information regarding alcohol and I agree with Mike and Jay that it has no place in the life of a man who is seeking excellence.

TL;DR version: Carr's book allowed me to go from saying, "I can't drink anymore" to "I don't have to drink anymore". Some pages felt like he was talking directly to me. It helped me change my perception of alcohol and kill any desire to consume it.

Post: #1623

Hey guys hope the wagons on this thread are rolling along peacefully.

I had a situation a couple nights back which I'd like to share and get some input on.

Met this girl a week back at an event she was drunk but not completely wasted drunk, had some good times, met twice after that sober both of us with progressing intimacy last time was naked but no sex so realistically the next meet it was going down, her vibe, appearance appeal to me, mid twenties still in college likes the occasional party obviously..

Was up late a few days ago, she was out with friends wanted to come by after I said sure come over we'll hang out... She comes over, is drunk though not completely wasted and we start to chill but then suddenly I had this really bad reaction. Her breath, the stupid shit she was saying (there was drama at the party what a surprise), her movements were all turning me off quite quickly it was bad to see her change in behaviour when she's drunk and when she's sober.. So instead of her coming over, letting herself be seduced or seducing me it was boring and stupid... I got up from the bed got my keys and told her she had to go, she was confused blablabla, i told her i'd drive her back to her place (she needed medicine she had forgotten to take) which is not far away.. We're in the car she's like come up stay at my place etc. but the whole situation felt so weird and cold I dropped her off and went home. Gonna meet her later tonight and maybe talk about it cause shit is weird now..

What's your guys take on this, anything similar happened to someone while in recovery/on the wagon?

Take care

Post: #1624

(06-22-2016 08:38 AM)filio Wrote:  Hey guys hope the wagons on this thread are rolling along peacefully.

I had a situation a couple nights back which I'd like to share and get some input on.

Met this girl a week back at an event she was drunk but not completely wasted drunk, had some good times, met twice after that sober both of us with progressing intimacy last time was naked but no sex so realistically the next meet it was going down, her vibe, appearance appeal to me, mid twenties still in college likes the occasional party obviously..

Was up late a few days ago, she was out with friends wanted to come by after I said sure come over we'll hang out... She comes over, is drunk though not completely wasted and we start to chill but then suddenly I had this really bad reaction. Her breath, the stupid shit she was saying (there was drama at the party what a surprise), her movements were all turning me off quite quickly it was bad to see her change in behaviour when she's drunk and when she's sober.. So instead of her coming over, letting herself be seduced or seducing me it was boring and stupid... I got up from the bed got my keys and told her she had to go, she was confused blablabla, i told her i'd drive her back to her place (she needed medicine she had forgotten to take) which is not far away.. We're in the car she's like come up stay at my place etc. but the whole situation felt so weird and cold I dropped her off and went home. Gonna meet her later tonight and maybe talk about it cause shit is weird now..

What's your guys take on this, anything similar happened to someone while in recovery/on the wagon?

Take care

Not exactly this situation but you just described how I feel when I'm out with my friends and they are drinking and I am not.

They start to get pretty dull pretty quickly, make no sense, repeat themselves, thrive on pointless drama, look like they are going to knock the table over with every movement.

That's why I can only stand about 2 hours of it before I have to go home. Some days I would like to still be part of that loss of control but the benefits of the wagon outweigh this.

As regards to girls, I know exactly what you mean. This winter I ended up chatting to one girl on a nigh where I was seeing what I would be like to stay out all night sober. It was definitely on but I was repulsed by the drunkeness and boring ness of her drunk chat.

At least you'll know now what to expect next time and just don't put yourself in that situation.

Post: #1625

Yeah Ski pro in retrospect I actually thought "what was I expecting when she comes over drunk after the party".
There is a disconnect between the mind of someone inebriated late at night and one's own. It was a good lesson to listen to my gut feeling about this next time.

But there is still temptation in the nightlife scene for me and sometimes I take a step in the wrong direction but thankfully get to realise it pretty quickly. I woudn't recommend anyone endanger their wagon for some club skank or for the feeling of missing out and not being part of the scene.

Especially the thrive on pointless drama point you made is very accurate. So many problems and issues arise just because of the booze, people go crazy during the night and then spend their days fixing things they broke which didn't need fixing in the first place.