Post: #376

Yeah, Lostdreams is that chinese guy I was talking about. Good to have you here, man.

Post: #377

quote='RichieP' pid='1277873' dateline='1460738190']
TravellerKai, could you expand more upon what you mean by "Pre-validation game in China and Asia"?

Quote:I think I get it - basically social proof - when girl A perceives you as desired/approved of by other girls, it increases her attraction/investment.

This seems to be a general dynamic with women, but sounds like you're saying it's particularly effective and important in Asia.

Could you expand on that?

Would love to hear more, especially a specific example or two of how to get the pre-validation ball rolling, and how to capitalize on it.

I also wonder how this meshes with being perceived as a player. My current understanding is that falling into "sleazy western player" frame can damage your results in Asia... girls are more concerned with "being cheap", being pumped and dumped by the foreigner, etc - but sounds like you are framing player status advantageously. Any thoughts there?

Thanks!

Asian women are notoriously jealous. Anyone with major game skills works almost any part of Asia with elements of this game. Often times you fall into it without realizing it prior, like it did. I know I have some samples somewhere on the forum. I'll look for some tomorrow and see what I have.

Basically, you use your high value against them. In many cases it is used in tandem with Pipelining. You can also use it to keep a chick in check as a threat as well. NE Asians while susceptible to these tactics the most, it is well known to be used on Vietnamese, Thai women, and Pinays as well. I have a few dudes I have met in my years in the Manosphere, that I have had phone calls from them asking me what to do because 2 or more girls got into a physical fight over him in the Philippines. The PI may actually be worse than NE Asia in this regard. The only places in Asia I have not gotten any feedback or direct experience myself would be Laos and Indonesia. Maybe someone like Beyond Borders may have tried it or know some guys that use the jealousy there for their own advantages.

The setups vary as well.

Some examples:

1. Telling another girl about another one, might be best said in passing to see if they will bite hard and expose themselves. (eg. Oh yeah, I went there with a friend not too long ago....) (Be slightly passive aggressive about it)

2. Sometimes it is better to use it directly. (e.g. If you don't want to go out, that's fine. One of my other girlfriends should be able to go with me. )

3. You have to be willing to do this with such a conviction, that you totally do not give a fuck if she leaves you or not. You also need to be prepared for a message or phone call days, weeks, months, later when she has given up.

4. Understand your logistics. In other words, don't make threats if you cannot back them up. So for example, if you talk about other chicks around another one, you must be able to either get to the other ones quickly (logistically speaking) or get to where this chick is quickly. Another way to say it is, don't pretend to be a playboy from a keyboard in the US. You better have the ground proof or be able to get their by a train, etc. to back it up.

5. Using it in a circle of known women is not always a good idea depending upon what that circle is based upon (school, work, etc.). That said, it is awesome in a circle you created on your own.

6. You have to know how to pass the shit tests. This is crucial. If they ask if you are a play man or whatever, you have to have a confident "I don't give a fuck" vibe. You also need to know your audience too. Coming off too blunt will piss certain girls off and scare them away. Reassuring others not to worry about those others because they are just friends, works with some better. Directly telling some that you are still looking for the right girlfriend/wife and you do not know who is best, works better for some women. I have even one girl, "Well what makes you so good that I should stay with you? What can you show me? Are you the best?" Of course it just emboldened her more. But you have to know which will work with the right girl. It's not an exact science. Cocky girls can go either way, like they think they are the best for you, or they don't have to put up with your games and bullshit.

7. Talking about past girlfriends of high value is smarter sometimes. Although it is generally bad game or taboo to talk about old relationships, sometimes if used in a passing tone, it can cement the jealously. A typical shit test of "WOW! You have had sooooo many girlfriends before!! Why are you not married yet!" Passing answer: "Because I found (am with you) you!" or something along those lines. Doesn't matter because now she is going to be suspicious and jealous minded.


Some guys don't like dealing with jealous Asian girlfriends because of the drama and some of them do not know the culture well enough to deal with it effectively or to ignore it correctly. If you are that guy, avoid it. That said, if you want to up your game toolset, experiment with some 5s and 6s that you do not care about. Find new girls for your stable just to experiment with this and pipeline their friend's asses for more experience to boot.

Good luck.

Post: #378

Chinese government warning women about the evils of foreign boyfriends http://mp.weixin.qq.com/s?__biz=MzI4MTEx...t_redirect

Post: #379

(04-19-2016 02:00 PM)ovloV Wrote:  Chinese government warning women about the evils of foreign boyfriends http://mp.weixin.qq.com/s?__biz=MzI4MTEx...t_redirect

Not exactly.... They are warning them not to trust someone foreign asking for people's information and internal records inside China for National Security reasons (spying). China does not have "public records" like the US and some Western countries have. You cannot just open up a Yellow Book and look up people's address and phone numbers.

It's good advice in many ways because if you are foreign or Chinese, the last thing you need is THAT kind of drama. If I encountered someone like that, I would run away immediately. There are one too many foreign people (especially businessmen and women) in secret prisons right now over this stuff. It's very hard to know if the Chinese government makes this shit up or if the CIA, MI6, or Canadian Service really is recruiting people of all walks to spy on China like that.

Regardless never discuss politics with Chinese women. It's an automatic mood killer and may scare them off like you would not believe. For the love of God, never do it over the internet or phones either, if you just have to be boneheaded about it.

Post: #380

TKai that is great advice... thanks for taking the time! Definitely something I need to work into my game more in Asia. I've been trying to come over as "nice good guy" and non-player as poss, (while still assertive/leading etc), but I will try throwing this into the mix. Makes total sense, just never really clicked[/align] how to apply this in Asia. Thanks again.[align=left]

Post: #381

Met a girl from Sichuan in Taiwan tonight. That's like the 10th girl from Sichuan that started as a random Tantan match I didn't expect much from and then she turned out to be completely amazing. I don't know what shit they put in the water there but they should bring some of it across the strait.

Post: #382

^ I think they are easily the best looking girls in China. No contest, Hunan and Hubei are second place for me.

Post: #383

I have relatively little experience with Sichuan girls, but the only Chinese girls that I haven't been ashamed to fuck have all been from Hunan.

Post: #384

Hunan girls are a bit more delicate looking, so I approve.

Post: #385

Changsha data sheet anyone? I'll probably check it out at some point but a weekend trip probably isn't enough.

Post: #386

Been living out in a tier 2 city in Northern China now teaching English for about 6 months. Thought I'd share some of my experiences here so far. From my relatively brief experience out here I can say that this guide is legit, especially with regards to the psychology of these Chinese girls. I read this thread over a few times before making the jump over here and it helped prepare me for the culture shift. The girls and the people here are just different and it's hard to really know what its like until you come experience it for yourself.

For the most part, Chinese women are sweet as hell. It's refreshing not to have to deal with the snarky attitude many American women have adopted. They live simple lives and have simple hobbies. I swear every Chinese girl just likes shopping, taking pictures/posting on social media, and watching movies. Consequentially, most are boring as hell. Despite this, conversation with them is relatively easy, as you are a foreigner and can just talk about cultural differences and what America is like and all that shit. Also, language exchange. Every Chinese girl I've been out with has been more than happy to teach me Chinese or try and learn some English.

Young girls are hard to get to. For this age group you are basically the foreign novelty. It's hard to get a date with this group, let alone pull them back to your place or get a second date. They are too busy with school or live with their parents. These girls usually tend to have better English, as its still being crammed down their throats in school, but are definitely flaky as hell. The only college girl I managed to bang was a 20 year old I met in a Chinese club. Talked with her briefly, but she was leaving with her friend so I just got her WeChat. Went out with her for a drink the next day, took her back to my place, did the deed twice, and then walked her to a cab when she had to go home. It felt too easy, almost like the routine I'd have back home with a girl I met off Tinder. I noticed the following day that she had blocked me for some reason. sigh what can you do with women these days.

Kai is spot on with the mid 20's age group. Really its the post-uni group for the educated girls. These girls, no matter what they say, wanna get married and soon. Many of them are under enormous pressure from their families and I imagine for the uneducated girls, it's probably their only way to a better life. 2 TAs from my school left to go move in with and eventually marry their boyfriends. Both were 22-23. The first got pregnant with her on/off boyfriend and decided to marry him. I asked her what she thought about him, and she paused for a moment before saying "I hope he will do better in the future" The second moved in with a fat tub of lard in his 30's who promised to take care of her after one month of dating. Based off her WeChat posts her life now seems to consist of eating and shopping and nothing else.

The ones who speak English are obviously the easiest targets, but these girls usually end up playing games like Western girls, so you just have to decide how much patience you have if you wanna keep smashing them. The two hottest girls girls I banged here I met at a foreigner-friendly bar/foreigner party, but they were hard to keep around. The first came on super hard, booty calling me at night and being all lovey dovey, but after we banged for the second time she just kept asking me over and over again to "make a baby" with her, and wouldn't stop asking me why I said no until I basically had to tell her to STFU. Against my better judgement, I actually tried to see this girl again but she began the games, claiming she was "too busy." I actually ended up running into her again at the same bar a couple months later and banged her a couple more times before it faded once again. One of the first things she said to me after she saw me again was "I don't want make a baby anymore"

The second girl was this petite beauty who seemed sweet and innocent, but sadly I imagine has actually been tossed around by some of the expat crowd around here. Met her at some foreign party for this most recent May Day after getting introduced by a friend (that's the thing out here...my game skills have decreased as girls essentially approach you. I've found just saying hello to be the most effective opener. My banter game has weakened as well as I don't have to rely on it with Chinese girls). Talked for awhile before taking her out to the beach for a walk. We climbed up these rocks that were in a quiet place where we could be alone and I ended up making out and fingering her there as we watched the sunset (it was cheesily romantic). I probably coulda fucked her right there, but I decided against it. Ended up doing it the next day after taking her to a movie. She said all these emotional things during pillow talk (think we have a connection, really like you, blah blah blah) and I matched her somewhat, as I'd actually like to cut down on the notch game and have a little mini-relationship for awhile. But after she left the following morning she got all non-committal when I tried to arrange plans to go out again before finally cancelling on me two hours before the other day with some BS about having to have dinner with her boss.

Not sure what I could do there, so I've dropped it for now, but obviously am annoyed when I can't keep quality around. Not sure if I'm failing some shit test, like when I admit I don't wanna get married soon when these mid 20s girls ask me about marriage. They say they wanna wait too but I don't think they really believe that. That's the thing about Chinese girls, is that I actually think they play the game better than their Western counterparts sometimes. Their inherent sweetness hides the same bullshit they will put you through that all women will do.

As for foreigner girls here, from all accounts they are easy to snag. The majority either aren't interested in Chinese guys or have no idea how to get involved with one so they just stick to their little expat cliques. However, I don't really bother with them as most are busted, and the ones who aren't get passed around the foreign guys like hotcakes. Actually, the most attractive foreigners here are from Russia. Tall, leggy blondes with those seductive bitch faces. I'd like to get one while I'm here but they tend to be students who just socialize with the other Russians they came with, so I haven't gotten lucky yet. And if you're into black girls, there's a surprising number of them here, most from African countries. I actually slept with my first black girl here my first month in China.

The clubs here are a bit different. Based on my experience here, in a tier 2 city you will have a few foreigner-friendly bars that will offer a scaled-down Western style club experience, but the real talent is at the Chinese clubs. They are strange though to observe: instead of a giant dance floor, the club mostly consists of tables where you buy bottle service. The Chinese then dance awkwardly like they are in middle school, standing in horizontal lines and not touching one another, on small little elevated dance floors. Girls come here in packs or in pairs usually, although I did observe one girl go alone (she sat on a table and ordered one of those packages that comes with like 20 budweisers. She then sat on her phone alone for an hour before leaving. My friend approached her but she was cold as shit to him. Why even bother going...). I usually end up approaching the girls in pairs and play the dice game with them for a bit. The girls who come to these places usually don't speak good English I've found, but its so loud that it doesn't really matter. I haven't had any success with SNLs from these clubs yet, but getting WeChats and potential dates is pretty easy, as you will usually be one of the only foreigners in these clubs. I imagine you could even go alone, as many Chinese end up approaching you and try to use your foreign cache to make themselves look cool in front of their friends/girlfriends. So this means free drinks for you! Its also super easy to swipe beers at these clubs. So many Chinese order rounds of beers and just leave like 20 beers sitting on their table when they go...

As for Day Game, my experience with it has been largely nil mostly due to my lack of Chinese and weak confidence in speaking. I really can't emphasize how much Chinese will expand your opportunities to get laid here. My first time at a Chinese club I made eye contact with a girl sitting a few tables away and she gave me a big smile. I approached her soon after and got her to come play a couple rounds of the dice game with me at my table. She then asked my friend if I spoke Chinese, and when he told her no she promptly walked away. I have a friend here who slays pussy and often can swoop in on other girls and steal them from objectively better looking guys just on account of his Chinese ability. Girls here LOVE it if you can speak Chinese as a foreigner here. I made the mistake of not studying any Chinese before I came here, and spent my first couple months being lazy and not bothering to learn much. However, I decided to take my studying more seriously the past few months and I'd say I've gotten to a point where I can have very basic conversations now. Even simple shit like being able to ask a girl out for dinner in Chinese while not botching your tones impresses Chinese girls.

What seems a decent opportunity here is actually service-industry game. You get a natural opener, and you'd be surprised at the number of attractive girls running the register at some random mall (malls are everywhere here). Especially at the places I frequent, like the gym and the nearby subway stop, I get a lot of attention and potential opportunities to ask a girl out, but I have avoided it thus far as I see it as a kind of don't shit where you eat situation. I've gotten some WeChats but haven't really pushed anything too far. Although I did get a marriage proposition from some girl who gave me a massage at the legit place I go to by my work sometimes.

I know some guys who have success with online game, but I just haven't bothered with it over here. Partly because I was worn out from relying on it back home, and partly because I just don't think its worth the time over here when its so easy to meet girls in person. I rarely even go out more than twice a week now and its easy to meet girls and line up dates later if you make an effort to speak to girls when you go out. I've experimented some with People Nearby on WeChat when I get bored, but don't really anymore as I've found it just to be filled with fakes, flakes and whores.

As someone who was stuck working the 40 hour grind back home, if you've ever thought about going to teach abroad I'd highly recommend taking the plunge. I don't want to be teaching for more than a few years, but as it is now I'm working less I was back home, making more money, and living much cheaper as well. No rent, and with side gigs and private lessons more than available for anyone who isn't a lazy bastard or an alcoholic out here, there's money to be made with a relatively low-stress job. Especially if you're a younger guy like myself, you will have so much opportunity just because of your youth and white face (if you got one). Also, the women here are beautiful. The best way to describe it, is that the average woman is just so much more attractive than the average woman back home. Girls here dress nice, there's none of that crap like pretty girls making themselves ugly with dyke haircuts/excessive tattoos/stupid edgy fashion, and of course the best part, minimal fat chicks!

Although who knows how long it will last, I already feel that Western dating customs are infecting some of the young generation here. In addition, smart phone addiction here is rampant and to my surprise worse than in the States. Everyone has a smartphone here, from the 8 year olds I teach to the 70 year old grandmas and grandpas who come to pick them up. Couples on dates will spend long times sitting on their phones. Employees in the bank and in the mall are paid to sit around and play on their phones when no one is around (there seriously is no accountability for this over here. Walk into any mall and half the employees seem to be on their phone). Girls come into the gym and seem to be there for a photoshoot and not a workout. Its just a little sad to see people become this enveloped by technology and reduce social interactions to commodities that pop up on a screen, but I digress...

Post: #387

Glorious first post!! Please do mind yourself here at RVF so that you can stick around for a long time. This is good feedback that is often times needed from fresh new blood.

As for things in your post:

1. Quality will improve based mostly on two things: Cultural knowledge mixed with game and language skills. There are some other alternatives but that would take all day long to breakdown and I have done it in this thread in scattered posts. (eg. Business circle game, advanced WeiBo Model hunting, actual wife hunting (girls act different when they see you playing for keeps), better marriage age (27-38), etc...)

2. That chick that was having a dinner with her boss is trying to climb the ladder guanxi style, which isn't really designed for women (China is a man's world). 3 types of women like this (Good Girls, Semi-Bad, and Bad). Semi Bad and Bad will do the drink baijiu and fuck the boss or bosses to varying degrees. The only way to practically stop the first two from doing this or even getting to the point to where these choices are given to them, is for a top-notch boyfriend/fiancee that can rescue them from that lifestyle. Bad girls don't give a shit. They are extremely opportunistic and take the best offers from the best man/men. Govt (The CCP) working women don't have this pressure as bad as private in many ways, but some stories are out there saying the same stuff too. Basically your takeaway is that you were either too slow to get serious or your game is not good enough to make her ice those ambitions enough to spend time with you. I will be honest with you guys for a bit. My wife is the only one I ever bothered to pull away from that world. I let all the others do whatever they wanted because I did not give a shit. Choose wisely or NEXT!!

3. The phone addiction does suck and is rampant there. It is what it is. Still better than chasing old MILFS and GILFS that won't touch the phones hardly, even if they are not all that bad looking. There is just too much freshness out there. It's something we all gotta get used to everywhere, girls included. At some point you have to learn how to manage time effectively and put the shit down.

Keep improving on the language skills and things will open up more. I hope to see a fresher mastersheet from you and Fortis in the next few years. You young bucks should collab on one.

Post: #388

(04-20-2016 12:15 PM)atlant Wrote:  Met a girl from Sichuan in Taiwan tonight. That's like the 10th girl from Sichuan that started as a random Tantan match I didn't expect much from and then she turned out to be completely amazing. I don't know what shit they put in the water there but they should bring some of it across the strait.

The joke in China is that the water is what makes Chongqing women so beautiful and special. Sichuan is right next to Chongqing. If I was not so crazy about Hunan women, Sichuan women would have probably been my 2nd or 3rd deepest pool. Only thing about them is the Tiger Wife culture. They fucking invented that. I have had enough fights with some to know how strong those women can be to be cautious of them.

Post: #389

(05-10-2016 02:08 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  Glorious first post!! Please do mind yourself here at RVF so that you can stick around for a long time. This is good feedback that is often times needed from fresh new blood.

As for things in your post:

1. Quality will improve based mostly on two things: Cultural knowledge mixed with game and language skills. There are some other alternatives but that would take all day long to breakdown and I have done it in this thread in scattered posts. (eg. Business circle game, advanced WeiBo Model hunting, actual wife hunting (girls act different when they see you playing for keeps), better marriage age (27-38), etc...)

2. That chick that was having a dinner with her boss is trying to climb the ladder guanxi style, which isn't really designed for women (China is a man's world). 3 types of women like this (Good Girls, Semi-Bad, and Bad). Semi Bad and Bad will do the drink baijiu and fuck the boss or bosses to varying degrees. The only way to practically stop the first two from doing this or even getting to the point to where these choices are given to them, is for a top-notch boyfriend/fiancee that can rescue them from that lifestyle. Bad girls don't give a shit. They are extremely opportunistic and take the best offers from the best man/men. Govt (The CCP) working women don't have this pressure as bad as private in many ways, but some stories are out there saying the same stuff too. Basically your takeaway is that you were either too slow to get serious or your game is not good enough to make her ice those ambitions enough to spend time with you. I will be honest with you guys for a bit. My wife is the only one I ever bothered to pull away from that world. I let all the others do whatever they wanted because I did not give a shit. Choose wisely or NEXT!!

3. The phone addiction does suck and is rampant there. It is what it is. Still better than chasing old MILFS and GILFS that won't touch the phones hardly, even if they are not all that bad looking. There is just too much freshness out there. It's something we all gotta get used to everywhere, girls included. At some point you have to learn how to manage time effectively and put the shit down.

Keep improving on the language skills and things will open up more. I hope to see a fresher mastersheet from you and Fortis in the next few years. You young bucks should collab on one.

Thanks for the feedback! There's a lot of good knowledge in this thread that has helped me, so I wanted to pay it forward and contribute what I can. As for a new datasheet, I've thought about writing one for my city when I leave, but I'd like more experiences in China before embarking on that endeavor. Improving my Chinese and seeing first hand how it changes my game is the first step towards that. Plus, China is so damn massive that I think you will have different experiences depending on where you are. It doesn't seem like too many RVF guys are up north, but if so holla at me with a PM. Most of the guys I've met out here have weak game or are only interested in staying in the expat bubble while they're here, so my circle of male confidants has been smaller compared to back home.

However, I may have just made my first genuine Chinese male friend here, so we'll see what social opportunities that entails. He's a new TA at my school, young guy, who has lived half his life in Canada and in his own words can understand the Western male perspective. Naturally, our conversation shifted towards women over lunch, and we swapped a lot of good stories about our time in China and the West. He's pretty keen on taking me out, and says "We gonna have a lot of beautiful nights."

As for that girl, I talked with my new Chinese friend about it, and he basically reiterated the same points you made. Largely that I didn't act quick enough in locking her down. I also think my game after the fact was weak. You really have to change your mindset when it comes to dating here as the girls are just different. Back home, if I slept with a girl I'd play it cool after and hit her up after a few days if I wanted to see her again. Never had trouble getting repeat dates with girls I liked. However, after sleeping with a Chinese girl, I feel that you play your hand, and if you don't have anything to offer them besides sex, they're gonna drop you and just rationalize their time with you as a night of passion and nothing else. They know the endgame of a relationship is marriage and kids, so while their Western counterparts are content to live out the fantasy that the cock carousel provides, the Chinese girls are much more realistic and cognizant about their remaining years of youth.

My Chinese friend recommended I give it one more shot, so I sent her an emotional appeal. Although she's a bit older than me, I foolishly took her word when she said 30 was a good age for marriage over dinner. Lo and behold as we text, she says "I think maybe we are not good fit. In China date means you have the aim to marry someone. But I have to force you to do this?" Heh, she's right in that regard. Maybe had I acted quicker we could have had more time together, but I think it would have eventually come to this question anyway. I suppose I shouldn't fret about it too much, as I've still got other girls around, but there's always still a sense of genuine disappointment when you realize you miscalculated and lost something good.

I don't know how long I will stay here. I've come to the conclusion that as a foreigner, you will always be an outsider here. There is an acute sense one feels of "otherness" when you come to a place like here that can be draining. Hell, even as someone who is ethnically half Han-Chinese (most people just assume I'm white though), I feel that I can't truly integrate here. That's not to say that people here will treat you poorly, if anything many Chinese are very friendly and love to share their culture/language with you. But you will always just be a niche in their community. So I can't see myself staying here long term. But as I have a vested interest in learning Chinese and building my bankroll, this is the place to be for now. Plus, if you're naturally more introverted, coming to a place like this where you are so different forces you to come out of your shell a bit and develop your confidence.

Post: #390

(05-12-2016 01:35 AM)infinitejest Wrote:  

(05-10-2016 02:08 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  Glorious first post!! Please do mind yourself here at RVF so that you can stick around for a long time. This is good feedback that is often times needed from fresh new blood.

As for things in your post:

1. Quality will improve based mostly on two things: Cultural knowledge mixed with game and language skills. There are some other alternatives but that would take all day long to breakdown and I have done it in this thread in scattered posts. (eg. Business circle game, advanced WeiBo Model hunting, actual wife hunting (girls act different when they see you playing for keeps), better marriage age (27-38), etc...)

2. That chick that was having a dinner with her boss is trying to climb the ladder guanxi style, which isn't really designed for women (China is a man's world). 3 types of women like this (Good Girls, Semi-Bad, and Bad). Semi Bad and Bad will do the drink baijiu and fuck the boss or bosses to varying degrees. The only way to practically stop the first two from doing this or even getting to the point to where these choices are given to them, is for a top-notch boyfriend/fiancee that can rescue them from that lifestyle. Bad girls don't give a shit. They are extremely opportunistic and take the best offers from the best man/men. Govt (The CCP) working women don't have this pressure as bad as private in many ways, but some stories are out there saying the same stuff too. Basically your takeaway is that you were either too slow to get serious or your game is not good enough to make her ice those ambitions enough to spend time with you. I will be honest with you guys for a bit. My wife is the only one I ever bothered to pull away from that world. I let all the others do whatever they wanted because I did not give a shit. Choose wisely or NEXT!!

3. The phone addiction does suck and is rampant there. It is what it is. Still better than chasing old MILFS and GILFS that won't touch the phones hardly, even if they are not all that bad looking. There is just too much freshness out there. It's something we all gotta get used to everywhere, girls included. At some point you have to learn how to manage time effectively and put the shit down.

Keep improving on the language skills and things will open up more. I hope to see a fresher mastersheet from you and Fortis in the next few years. You young bucks should collab on one.

My Chinese friend recommended I give it one more shot, so I sent her an emotional appeal. Although she's a bit older than me, I foolishly took her word when she said 30 was a good age for marriage over dinner. Lo and behold as we text, she says "I think maybe we are not good fit. In China date means you have the aim to marry someone. But I have to force you to do this?" Heh, she's right in that regard. Maybe had I acted quicker we could have had more time together, but I think it would have eventually come to this question anyway. I suppose I shouldn't fret about it too much, as I've still got other girls around, but there's always still a sense of genuine disappointment when you realize you miscalculated and lost something good.

Hey man,

I like your first post. good stuff.

About the bolded stuff:

Hey, how old are you? Honestly, I would avoid the 30-year-old chicks for anything other than ONS. Unfortunately, many of them have been driven nuts by all the heckling they get from their friends and family members for not being married.

I'm black, so your mileage may vary given that you're half-chinese, but hear me out:

I find that they're definitely more suspicious of you and your motives from the get go. They might bang you and then ditch you so that they won't be reminded of the fact that a young foreigner is most likely not marrying them.

I've had this happen to me a few times. Now, that's all good and fine since I don't want to be in an LTR in China with a girl older than me.

I know it's difficult, but I would aim a bit lower (try 18-20) and work from there. Younger girls generally have fewer hang-ups because they haven't been henpecked to death by their mothers about marriage and are easier to get along with. They also are a bit more accepting of westerners in general because they've been consuming our media so they know a bit more about us.

Ask your Chinese friend what he thinks about older chicks. Those guys can be VERY red pill about that sort of thing. One of my American coworkers got engaged to a 40+ year-old single mom divorcee after one month of dating her. This is whatever (someone has to do it and it sure as fuck won't be me), except for one thing--he's 35.

When my Chinese coworker overheard this, he said to the American guy:

"You realize you can get a younger, purer wife with no kids, no emotional issues and less drama, right? In China, it is expected that a man will take a younger wife and not a leftover wife."

He was 100% serious and he's 100% correct and this also applies to dating and ONS. Whenever I've gone for chicks around my age (27) they tend to be a lot more annoying than girls who are in the 18-20-year-old range. I know of multiple foreigners who are married here and they all say the same thing, avoid anything serious with the older chicks. This is coming from 8+ year china veterans and such, so it's good advice to stick to. When in doubt, always go younger.

As far as quality goes, depending on your tastes, I think it's easier to get girls here who fit your quality needs than it might be back home. I like girls who are taller and have a decent ass. Most Chinese guys love super thin and tall girls and absolutely won't compete with me for those types of girls.

I would also screen chicks for money. I know that sounds fucked up, but the girls who come from money are a lot more open to foreigners (at least in my experience) than girls who come from a rural background. It's no surprise that my current GF comes from some degree of money in her province. The other reason you screen for money here is because the educated class here is (you guessed it) more accepting of laowai than the poorer people.

Anyway, I'm rambling, but nice to have you on the forum. Good luck out there.

Post: #391

(05-12-2016 02:05 AM)Fortis Wrote:  Hey man,

I like your first post. good stuff.

About the bolded stuff:

Hey, how old are you? Honestly, I would avoid the 30-year-old chicks for anything other than ONS. Unfortunately, many of them have been driven nuts by all the heckling they get from their friends and family members for not being married.

I'm black, so your mileage may vary given that you're half-chinese, but hear me out:

I find that they're definitely more suspicious of you and your motives from the get go. They might bang you and then ditch you so that they won't be reminded of the fact that a young foreigner is most likely not marrying them.

I've had this happen to me a few times. Now, that's all good and fine since I don't want to be in an LTR in China with a girl older than me.

I know it's difficult, but I would aim a bit lower (try 18-20) and work from there. Younger girls generally have fewer hang-ups because they haven't been henpecked to death by their mothers about marriage and are easier to get along with. They also are a bit more accepting of westerners in general because they've been consuming our media so they know a bit more about us.

Ask your Chinese friend what he thinks about older chicks. Those guys can be VERY red pill about that sort of thing. One of my American coworkers got engaged to a 40+ year-old single mom divorcee after one month of dating her. This is whatever (someone has to do it and it sure as fuck won't be me), except for one thing--he's 35.

When my Chinese coworker overheard this, he said to the American guy:

"You realize you can get a younger, purer wife with no kids, no emotional issues and less drama, right? In China, it is expected that a man will take a younger wife and not a leftover wife."

He was 100% serious and he's 100% correct and this also applies to dating and ONS. Whenever I've gone for chicks around my age (27) they tend to be a lot more annoying than girls who are in the 18-20-year-old range. I know of multiple foreigners who are married here and they all say the same thing, avoid anything serious with the older chicks. This is coming from 8+ year china veterans and such, so it's good advice to stick to. When in doubt, always go younger.

As far as quality goes, depending on your tastes, I think it's easier to get girls here who fit your quality needs than it might be back home. I like girls who are taller and have a decent ass. Most Chinese guys love super thin and tall girls and absolutely won't compete with me for those types of girls.

I would also screen chicks for money. I know that sounds fucked up, but the girls who come from money are a lot more open to foreigners (at least in my experience) than girls who come from a rural background. It's no surprise that my current GF comes from some degree of money in her province. The other reason you screen for money here is because the educated class here is (you guessed it) more accepting of laowai than the poorer people.

Anyway, I'm rambling, but nice to have you on the forum. Good luck out there.

I'm 24 and the girl in question was 26. So when she said she thought 30 was a good age for marriage I thought there'd be a chance we could date and take it slower without marriage looming in the background, but you can't take everything a woman says at face value. Casual relationships don't really seem to be a thing here for most girls. I definitely agree about going for younger girls, but its just a pain in the ass dealing with them. I find you have to text them more and build more of a rapport before you can get them out. And then you have to deal with the flakiness.

Aside from the one 20 year old, all the other Chinese girls I've slept with here have been 24-28. I find talking with this age range to be much easier (plus many still look 21-22 anyway), and they are down to meet up pretty quick. Don't have to spend much time texting with them if we've already met in person. I also agree about screening for money. The uneducated girls here not only do not have any English ability, but they usually marry early or are looking for a husband openly. I feel sympathy for their situation and as I have no desire to marry right now I don't mess with that. All the Chinese men I've talked to always talk about younger girls. They openly admit they don't really like em past 25, especially for marriage material. I have no plans to end up like your American coworker...it doesn't matter where you are in the world, but if you are gonna get married at 35 there's no reason to wife up a 40 year old! Insanity.

Post: #392

Yeah, it depends on what you want. if you're going for ONS and casual, then many young girls will be hesitant about that since they are virgins and inexperienced and haven't interacted with foreigners much. In that case, you can bank more on the older girls. With younger girls, I actually say you can be a lot more "beta" and get away with it. Shit that we'd consider "lame" back home works here for some reason.

Walking in the park, buying cheap flowers for girls and that stuff go far with the younger crowd, especially since a lot of Chinese guys aren't exactly seen as "romantic." So you can play up the sexy, worldly, romantic foreigner angle if you're going for the young ones.

Some guys do well here with girls 24+, but I also sort of approach the game here a little differently. I actually don't really like night game much in china and find it to be a waste of time (beyond chilling with my friends). I live near a major university, so I actually like to sit out there and turn on wechat nearby and talk to the girls there. Day game can be done and I have gotten numbers off of it, but my chinese sucks so it isn't worth it a lot of the time. Strangely, online dating is strong for me here.

It helps me screen on multiple levels at once:

1) wealth

college girls usually have more money.

2) Age

college girls are younger than the average chick.

3) education

It's college.

Post: #393

Sounds like I gotta give online dating another try. Hitting up people nearby in malls here has always yielded a number of quality girls, but I haven't ever met up with anyone I talked to off it despite a number of conversations. Some girls just wanna chat and never meetup. My foreign friend who's got good Chinese has gotten some lays off Momo, but there's no option for English on it.

Definitely agree about running more beta game out here. I like playing the role of the Confident Gentlemen. There's no need to be an asshole to these women early on, and since they don't understand sarcasm you can just say a bunch of cheesy shit that you wouldn't say to western girls instead. One go-to conversation is to just ask "Do you believe in fate?" All the girls eat it up and will start talking about how it was destiny for us to meet.

Post: #394

Isn't this marriage thing just an asian test? Why dont you just answer with "Yes I'm definitely looking for a great girl for the long-term. But before two people marry, they need to see if they're compatible first, by dating for several months. Need to make sure we're really a good match before rushing in to marriage."

This may or may not sit well with you. For me this is OK because it's true. I actually believe it: there's only a low chance a given girl would truly capture my heart for marriage right now, but hey, it's possible. And it'd take months together to even find out.

One thing's for sure though, if you go in with "I have no intention of getting married any time soon", that's a bigger statement than it is in the west. It's basically ruling yourself out from Chinese dating. Kinda like "I just want to get laid" in the west.

I think girls just want the possibility to exist - to feel like they could possibly "win you over", that you're attainable - and don't want to waste time with a guy who has told them they have zero chance of the trophy. They value the chase, and "working on" a guy is still desirable to them even if they don't end up winning.

This is my experience with Chinese girls, albeit in other asian countries outside China.

But, you could argue it's unfair to string them along. Especially if they've blatantly said "I want to get married this year" or "I must get married ASAP". I guess it's a judgement call.

Post: #395

Anyone figure out how to get to the 9s and 10s? Was chatting with my friend today and he said he noticed all the foreigners end up either 6-7, some 8s. They never get the 9s because either the 9/10s don't need to both learning English since they don't need to, and if they did their social circles are too removed from foreigner groupies.

A couple months back I got the wechat of a TV presenter but we've never been able to meet up - she didn't speak any English so it was my Chinese that gained her interest. We met at a business event though I'm sure there are more of those out there.

Post: #396

(05-18-2016 08:25 AM)Arado Wrote:  Anyone figure out how to get to the 9s and 10s? Was chatting with my friend today and he said he noticed all the foreigners end up either 6-7, some 8s. They never get the 9s because either the 9/10s don't need to both learning English since they don't need to, and if they did their social circles are too removed from foreigner groupies.

A couple months back I got the wechat of a TV presenter but we've never been able to meet up - she didn't speak any English so it was my Chinese that gained her interest. We met at a business event though I'm sure there are more of those out there.

You answered your own question! That is the only real way to get them. Language skills is priority, targeted approaches are secondary. If you can read Mandarin, you can skim through Weibo and send the models messages. Circle and business game is important as well.

A TV personality is a HARD pull in my opinion. It would take alot to explain it all, but essentially, if you are on TV in China you must have CCP affiliations or ties. Tons of your guanxi for getting there counted on that or your family's guanxi. Extremely few would fuck that up dating a foreigner in public. Not just some foreigners, all foreigners.

You have to think about all the face issues surrounding them. It's kinda like how you would find it hard to date police officers, local government officials, traffic cops, etc. They aren't even supposed to take photos with foreigners, it could get them fired or worse. A semi-high ranking one went to my wedding but no pictures were allowed of him and I could only just shake his hand. I could not toast him with drinks either.

If you married one and attempt to do a K1 or K3 visa to bring back to the US, you actually have to perform extra steps in the process (eg. they need proof that CCP membership was part of their job, and they are not true communist with bad intentions). Crazy huh?

Post: #397

If you're trying to get a Chinese 9 or 10 in China, you better be able to do more than just speak Chinese. Speaking Chinese is not some awesome DHV. A scrub speaking Chinese is still a scrub. The easier thing to do by far is to grab a girl who meets your requirements for being a 9 and also happens to be a migrant worker. They exist, but they are harder to find because you won't be where they are. Despite the utter contempt for Nongs, they can be incredibly cute, feminine, sweet, appreciative, and don't have a bunch of baller Chinese guys fighting over them. One of my business partners now did just that, he married a migrant who was working at a hotel he was staying at, she doesn't have the right household registration, never went to college, hardly went to high school, family is broke, no high value Chinese guy wants her, but all those things don't matter much to Western guys.

Post: #398

(05-18-2016 03:21 PM)ovloV Wrote:  If you're trying to get a Chinese 9 or 10 in China, you better be able to do more than just speak Chinese. Speaking Chinese is not some awesome DHV. A scrub speaking Chinese is still a scrub. The easier thing to do by far is to grab a girl who meets your requirements for being a 9 and also happens to be a migrant worker. They exist, but they are harder to find because you won't be where they are. Despite the utter contempt for Nongs, they can be incredibly cute, feminine, sweet, appreciative, and don't have a bunch of baller Chinese guys fighting over them. One of my business partners now did just that, he married a migrant who was working at a hotel he was staying at, she doesn't have the right household registration, never went to college, hardly went to high school, family is broke, no high value Chinese guy wants her, but all those things don't matter much to Western guys.

That works well too, but the poorer the girls are, the more cultural knowledge you will need to know to deal with their bullshit, like more than your actual Mandarin skills. It will almost always be revolving around making arrangements as well. More shit tests in general to deal with as well.

The worst girlfriends I have ever had in China made 2000rmb a month or less. One was a legit nine but she drove me absolutely nuts. Even after I dumped her she was a pain in my ass for a bit. That's why I never recommend poor girls. A 2 or 3 year college girl is a sweet spot because they are not overly superstitious and silly, but more reasonable and practical. I dated one in the military that was better than the poor ones. At least she kept it 100 with me about anything she thought about.

Post: #399

(05-18-2016 03:43 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

(05-18-2016 03:21 PM)ovloV Wrote:  If you're trying to get a Chinese 9 or 10 in China, you better be able to do more than just speak Chinese. Speaking Chinese is not some awesome DHV. A scrub speaking Chinese is still a scrub. The easier thing to do by far is to grab a girl who meets your requirements for being a 9 and also happens to be a migrant worker. They exist, but they are harder to find because you won't be where they are. Despite the utter contempt for Nongs, they can be incredibly cute, feminine, sweet, appreciative, and don't have a bunch of baller Chinese guys fighting over them. One of my business partners now did just that, he married a migrant who was working at a hotel he was staying at, she doesn't have the right household registration, never went to college, hardly went to high school, family is broke, no high value Chinese guy wants her, but all those things don't matter much to Western guys.

That works well too, but the poorer the girls are, the more cultural knowledge you will need to know to deal with their bullshit, like more than your actual Mandarin skills. It will almost always be revolving around making arrangements as well. More shit tests in general to deal with as well.

The worst girlfriends I have ever had in China made 2000rmb a month or less. One was a legit nine but she drove me absolutely nuts. Even after I dumped her she was a pain in my ass for a bit. That's why I never recommend poor girls. A 2 or 3 year college girl is a sweet spot because they are not overly superstitious and silly, but more reasonable and practical. I dated one in the military that was better than the poor ones. At least she kept it 100 with me about anything she thought about.

Rural girls usually have less bullshit to deal with in my experience. They don't expect much, aren't slaves to their families, and are much more independent, all of which are pluses when compared to how most upper class girls are: neurotic as shit.

But the point remains, you aren't going to get a prime top tier Chinese girl unless you are also a top tier guy. A girl who Chinese society thinks is worth anything is going to marry someone who is also worth something. Just knowing some Chinese is not some panacea for all the other shortcomings someone may have. It helps in that it widens your net. If you're a 5 to 100 Chinese girls, and you learn Mandarin, you are now a 5 to 200 Chinese girls, unless you speak Chinese SO WELL that it in an of itself will make you famous and wealthy, like if you're Da Shan or Afu, but then you'll probably be famous in media or viral videos. But those guys are the impossibly rare outsiders.

Post: #400

Spies in China are real.

From what I've heard, they typically send experts in various fields -- psychology, engineering, sociology, hacking etc. They gather as much info as they can related to their field. So a sociologist becomes an English teacher, makes friends with students, takes them out and all the time he's studying how they tick.

Beijing has a university for Chinese spies. One girl I knew went to that university, not as a spy but something else. When she left Beijing to the city I was staying in, her teachers told her to look out for a guy and gave her specifics (Canadian, works at X English school, etc).

After overstaying my visa by 1 month I was taken to the bowels of a PSB, in a dungeon like room, where a stern faced Chinese woman asked me questions in English like "are you here for the extraction of information" etc etc for over 1 hour.