Post: #551

(04-25-2016 05:44 PM)the chef Wrote:  lifting weights too much, not being below a certain body fat, and bad flexibility also contribute to not getting proper extension.

It was just being too close. And a bit of lean.

Post: #552

Sparred today - 8 rounds - 2 4 round sessions.

I guess my lack of experience makes it difficult to fathom how some guys could take full punches for 12 rounds.

What I mean is, my trainer with 14 oz was still catching me with some thump and he was not trying to murder me.

Can't imagine what power he had/still has when he was using 8 oz during his career.

And taking shots with 8 oz gloves.

Today was very educational - I need to lean back a little more.

Post: #553

^ Posture is very important when it comes to distance. The old school way is chest up chin down (see Hopkins for a perfect example), and this puts you in the optimal position to have as much distance as possible, but to still be able to keep your feet in a position where your shots will be in range. It's so simple and yet I see so many fighters giving away several inches through horrible posture in their stance.

Post: #554

SSS,

Keep in mind that if you had the same level of skill as your coach you would not be taking as many clean shots, even though he can still throw with more power. This is what happens as you go up the ranks, and why match making is so important - good coaches put a lot of time and effort into making sure their fighters aren't over or under matched. Guys go 12 rounds because they are at a similar level of skill to their opponent. That means they are not getting hit cleanly very often (obviously you still take a lot of punches over the twelve rounds) - they are often moving away as they are hit, or are able to deflect the worst of the blow with a glove or a shoulder. Indeed, that is a significant part of the skill.

At the moment, because you are green, you are likely less relaxed, which amplifies the effect of any shot landing cleanly significantly. A big part of becoming more experienced is just learning to flow.

Another factor is getting better with head movements and feints as you progress. Good fighters are able to draw particular shots, which they are ready to defend before the shots are thrown. You might, for instance, drop your lead hand to invite a straight right, knowing that you are going to roll it past you with your shoulder, or slip under it. If you have good head movement your opponent has to guess slightly where he is aiming his next shot, this means that he throws with less conviction, has to hold back some power, and even if he does land, it is less likely to be cleanly.

The most important factor is control of distance. Dictate distance, and you will control the fight. Control of distance is an almost complete defensive quality all of its own. Until you are doing all of these things naturally, experienced opponents are always going to seem to hit so much harder. Once you incorporate them all, you may find that a lot of these guys don't hit much harder than you, they just do everything else so well that the power they have is magnified.

Post: #555

(05-05-2016 04:04 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  Sparred today - 8 rounds - 2 4 round sessions.

I guess my lack of experience makes it difficult to fathom how some guys could take full punches for 12 rounds.

What I mean is, my trainer with 14 oz was still catching me with some thump and he was not trying to murder me.

Can't imagine what power he had/still has when he was using 8 oz during his career.

And taking shots with 8 oz gloves.

Today was very educational - I need to lean back a little more.

As crazy as it sounds, being relaxed is the key (I did Thai Boxing for 5 years), but the principles are pretty much the same for most combat sports. One element of your style gets thrown off, that will make a very long sparring session. As you increase in skill, the hits become less jarring and you learn to deflect/redirect the shots more effectively. If you are nervous then that cuts down on your response time thus making you late and you end up taking heavier shots than you need to experience.

Head movement, slipping, weaving, footwork really can enhance your boxing experience.

Post: #556

(05-05-2016 04:04 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  Sparred today - 8 rounds - 2 4 round sessions.

I guess my lack of experience makes it difficult to fathom how some guys could take full punches for 12 rounds.

What I mean is, my trainer with 14 oz was still catching me with some thump and he was not trying to murder me.

Today was very educational - I need to lean back a little more.

I boxed for about 5 years, stopped last year to put on some weight, i have really fast metabolism and if I am doing boxing and hitting the weights for hypertrofy I have to eat 5000 kcal a day just to not loose weight. I was never the strongest, the fastest or the more trained guy in the gym, but my trainer always put me to spar with his professional fighter that was 10 kg heavier than me, i was 17 y.o and the dude was 22, the thing is.. You need to find your timing, "vibe" or "flow" and your fighting style, as you find yourself you'll be more confident at having punches thrown at you and your reactions will flow better, because when you're confident you're relaxed, and when you're relaxed you can analyze the situation better put your footwork, punching, etc.. in use and see the fight as it is, a chess game.. When you can analyze the fight you'll see the warning your oponent gives when he'll throw different kinds of shots, and that will prevent you getting hit so often because you'll know whats coming (but still, you'll be getting hit a shitload of punches in 12 rounds). But when you discover yourself as a fighter and what type of fighting style works better for you and your body tipe, you'll get better, boxing it's lots of brains actually.

Post: #557

Just read H1N1 post,I've said basically the same thing as the man, sorry about that..

Post: #558

(05-05-2016 04:04 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  how some guys could take full punches for 12 rounds.

The guys who can take punches for 12 rounds, get their brain bruised up, get their face split open, and then smile and laugh about it after the fight....

.... are fucking animals!

Literally!

They are like super humans. They are so fucking tough that the average man, as you said, can not even fathom how tough they are.

They average man will never understand what its like to be that tough and be able to absorb that much violence.

Some of those guys are from the 3rd world and have been fighting since birth.
Some of those guys are from violent places and violence is all they know.
Some of those guys were severely beaten as children and their bodies adapted to take punishment.

Some of those guys are just born with incredibly tough bodies.
Some of those guys were trained to fight from a young age.

Some of those guys are ALL OF THE ABOVE.

They are much different in comparison to an average man. An average man would not survive 30 seconds around one of these killers. An average man couldn't take one punch. These guys can take thousands of punches. Something that would kill an average man would barely hurt one of these world class tough guys.

There are men out there who are so fucking tough that it's scary and mind blowing.

(05-05-2016 04:04 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  I need to lean back a little more.

Lean back, walk away, move away, duck, drop your head, move your head, "get on your bike", etc.

THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN BOXING IS TO AVOID GETTING HIT!

Getting hit can change everything.

Some guys look great UNTIL they get hit.

Some guys come alive AFTER they get hit.

You really don't know how tough you are until you get hit.

--

You don't know what boxing really is until you get hit.

Jumping rope, hitting bags, and jogging is not real boxing.

Real boxing is when there is another man in front of you and he is trying to kill you.

No one is coming to save you and you can not call a timeout.

That's what they call "the deep water".

That's when you discover what real boxing all is about.

Post: #559

As always, thanks for the comments. You guys have really been very generous with your time and supportive. I am very grateful.


I usually come alive after a couple of good shots. There have been a couple of times, I have found myself looking forward to the bell. Usually when I am doing my low carb diet and sparring. I know I should have more energy when sparring but for some reason my sparring increases as a trip approaches, but that is also when I am trying to slim.


As far as the skill thing, I think I am just a little less talented than my trainer


On a serious note, I do wonder if I should find someone my skill and experience to spar. But my gym has either professionals or just exercise/mitts guys. My logic is if I can even deal with half the shots that my trainer throws with speed and power, I should be able to deal with a slower person, right? He just knows how to moderate himself to push me. But sometimes I do wonder if someone a bit taller and not as fast would be more appropriate. I still struggle with the whole hitting someone I know thing. I land shots - just no attempt to really power them. The good thing is I am not getting mad about getting hit anymore - my first sparring session was terrible as some of you know and I felt like I turned into an animal, my rage was flowing. Now, it is the acceptance that getting hit happens, minimize and move.

My other issue is that when I have my guard up, I am not being relaxed with it. So I feel I am bleeding some energy by trying to squeeze the torso, if that makes sense.

In the first session, I turned too much on my stance and was showing the ear (and paid for it). Did some backing up and got hit because he quickly followed, I should have been stepping back and to the side following the direction of my shoulder. I was under a barrage and did something I never do and opened my mouth (partly due to fatigue I think) - caught a shot in the mouth - never wanna do that again. He took me out of what I had been practicing - not his fault of course, it was mine.

In the second session - a lot more collected and we spent some time reviewing what went wrong in the first session - I did much better. Started landing jabs, usually he knocks them down, they were not thunderous by any means, but they broke his rhythm. A few good body shots by me. But I took my share of punishment. But I kept my eyes on him and guarded better.


Random question: If you see the shot coming, do you guys throw a jab to disrupt what he is doing or are you slipping, rolling or backing up?


More sparring to come.

Post: #560

Just keep sparring, after sometime you'll get into Fight Mode, and you will punch anyone... It won't be personal just something you do to get what you want (kind of like experienced players deal with gaming girls). Me and one of my best mates used to spar and sometimes even fight for real (to get used to powerful hits), than get out of the ring crack some jokes about how we've almost knocked down each other and say goodbye with a brohug.

Post: #561

(05-06-2016 03:20 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  Random question: If you see the shot coming, do you guys throw a jab to disrupt what he is doing or are you slipping, rolling or backing up?

All of the above. Slip and counter at the same time so that you catch him coming in, or slip and try to get him off balance for a counter, or slip and change up the angles so that you can get a few shots off as he adjusts his feet, or slip and spin him/throw him off balance.

It all really depends on how soon you see the shot coming. Have you drawn a particular shot to throw a certain counter? Have you seen the shot coming in plenty of time so that you can slip effectively and put yourself in a good position? Or have you seen the shot late, so that blocking is your best bet?

One of the worst habits of modern amateur boxing is that of taking a lot of shots on the guard, at the expense of foot movement and head/body movement. Amir Khan is a classic example of this, as are many of the other Olympic guys (not all, lomachenko moves well for example). It works up to a point, and you can win world titles with it, but you'll never be a great boxer unless you have some silky defensive skills. Good defense opens up so many options for your offense. Watch a guy like James Toney, or Bhop for good defense to offense transition.

Post: #562

Sam you don't spar with the pros?

Is there some kind of rule? If not that's being a bit wasteful if they're willing to soar with you. Unless gym culture stateside is completely different fr ok my what I'm used to in asia.

Post: #563

(05-06-2016 05:27 PM)H1N1 Wrote:  snip

I probably don't move with my feet enough. I do try and slip. Rolls, not as much since I don't get a lot of hooks to work with. My main guard posture is the catcher mitt still and I do try to just catch and block a lot. Footwork is so important and definitely to get myself to move. To roll and step out altogether, etc. Thanks for the info H1N1.

(05-06-2016 07:42 PM)cascadecombo Wrote:  Sam you don't spar with the pros?

A couple of issues is the pros come in to spar other pros. Also a weight thing. Most of them are under 160 or so. I weighed a little over 185 at my last checkup. Also, my trainer knows some of these guys are dicks and some would just want to use me for batting practice. After almost a couple of years, I don't think I suck but up against guys who have been doing it for a decade or more - there is still a huge disadvantage.

Post: #564

Fascinating.

Questions:

1)Dumb question alert: Can pretty much anyone adopt the Philly shell? Or do you need to be a fast counterpuncher?

2) If there is a height differential - let's say your opponent is squatting a bit and you in theory would be punching down - is punching down not as easy as it seems? I recall someone telling me that it is sort of deceptive when they are lower than you and you could be subject to an upward stiff jab, etc.

Makes me also wonder if I should figure out if my arms are of short,avg, or long for my height. I think it would let me get an idea on reach. If the guy is my height and I know I have at least avg arm length, then we are sort of matched. If my arms are short, then I just need to account for that. --- Too johnbozzz of a question?

Post: #565

(05-06-2016 11:38 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  Fascinating.

Questions:

1)Dumb question alert: Can pretty much anyone adopt the Philly shell? Or do you need to be a fast counterpuncher?

Anyone can. Whether anyone should is an entirely different matter. The answer for most people is that they would be better served with the conventional guard, or a variation thereof. There are a couple of types of fighter that use it well:

1. The Mayweather type - defensively brilliant, low punch output with a high success rate. Not devastating punchers, guys who need to look good by being in range and being seen to hit and not get hit.

2. Guys like James Toney, who have what you might call a 'real motherfucker' approach to boxing. These are the guys who want to hurt you, and who know that when you throw you leave yourself exposed for them to inflict their damage.

Both types have to be excellent defensively, but one is much more clinical and the other much more aggressive. These are the types that have the real success with the Philly Shell. If you are not that kind of fighter, other styles will probably suit better.

Quote:2) If there is a height differential - let's say your opponent is squatting a bit and you in theory would be punching down - is punching down not as easy as it seems? I recall someone telling me that it is sort of deceptive when they are lower than you and you could be subject to an upward stiff jab, etc.

Makes me also wonder if I should figure out if my arms are of short,avg, or long for my height. I think it would let me get an idea on reach. If the guy is my height and I know I have at least avg arm length, then we are sort of matched. If my arms are short, then I just need to account for that. --- Too johnbozzz of a question?

You don't, ideally, want to punch up or down, as it takes power out of your shots. Try to keep them level with the line of your shoulder more or less (within 10 degrees or so).

Re: the reach - you might as well take a tape measure into the ring with you for all the good it will do. maximising your reach and negating your opponents is only done through years of dedicated work on the mitts, bag and in the ring.

Post: #566

I hit the bag today for about an hour at my non-boxing gym.

Tried some things I saw last night.

I came, obviously very slow, to realize, I don't like to move around a lot. I like to stay close and fight. While slipping and rolling is nice, I use my guard to stop most shots. Or my face.

I need to strike and move. I don't have to stay tight and try to keep up with a superior partner, I don't have the speed. I need to strike and step out or slide back and to the side.

As far as that stupid measuring arm comment, I blame it on how late it was when I was pretending to be johnbozzz. This morning, looking at at that question, I am definitely going "wtf".

Thanks everyone.

Post: #567

G'day all!

I've been very busy so haven't posted here much, but I'm still training. Have my first boxing interclub competition tomorrow! I'll be fighting as a novice middleweight, am feeling great now and can't wait!

Training has been fantastic. My guard has been good, and I've landed a lot of counter punches on people who come in and attack me after blocking their initial shots with a tight high guard, including some guys with 8-10 amateur fights. I've also been landing many straight right hands, both over the top and to the body, and diagonal left hands. I've been working on my left hooks, but I'm focusing on throwing mostly straight punches either parallel or diagonal, to the head or to the body, at the moment, and use the rest of my current boxing brain capacity to move around instead.

One weakness I used to have is not maintaining eye contact, or blinking while punching. That's now largely reduced or gone.

I need to work on staying more grounded, as I tend to bounce around a little too much. I have very strong legs compared to other boxers around here and I need to use them better. When I stay grounded, my punch power is very good, even if it lands on the guard, the opponent will see stars. It will also improve my confidence to hold my ground and punch back if the opponent tries to come forward.

I tried sparring as a southpaw against a lightweight the other day, with the purpose of trying to get him used to southpaws, and did surprisingly well. I landed a lot of straight lefts, and the occasional check right hooks. When I used to learn martial arts as a kid, I used to be a southpaw and left-handed, so that might be why. Defending was hard though and I kept switching back to orthodox. Southpaw might be a fun thing to try sometimes however my right side is way stronger so I probably should remain an orthodox boxer.

Post: #568

(05-07-2016 03:19 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  I hit the bag today for about an hour at my non-boxing gym.

Tried some things I saw last night.

I came, obviously very slow, to realize, I don't like to move around a lot. I like to stay close and fight. While slipping and rolling is nice, I use my guard to stop most shots. Or my face.

I need to strike and move. I don't have to stay tight and try to keep up with a superior partner, I don't have the speed. I need to strike and step out or slide back and to the side.

As far as that stupid measuring arm comment, I blame it on how late it was when I was pretending to be johnbozzz. This morning, looking at at that question, I am definitely going "wtf".

Thanks everyone.

Try this:

When you do focus mitt work with a partner, spend time evading, ducking and dodging, and moving around concentrating on your footwork.

Do these drills:

1-2 (jab > cross > dodge/evade his counter) Have him change the counters after you spend several mins working on that.

1-2-3 (jab > cross > hook . dodge/evade his counter) same as before.

Move around the ring or floor constantly while doing this. As you get better, your focus mitt trainer or partner should speed up the counters. It's literally the only way to get better at evading counters. You cannot do it alone at all. Once you get to a certain level like, when you do solo bag work you will move around it and dodge around it as if it was a real person. All because you worked on it repeatedly before.

Post: #569

So I had my very first interclub boxing comp yesterday, and won!

The matchup was rather dodgy. I'm a 70-75kg class novice competitor (very first comp), supposed to match up with the same kind of opponent with 4 or less matches. Instead, I was matched with someone from the 80kg class, who cut weight to make it so he's naturally significantly bigger. Not only that, my coach recognised him as a boxing fitness trainer from his previous gym with 8 years of boxing experience and a few amateur fights. Since this was supposed to be "like sparring, light contact with competition-like environment" I agreed to fight him anyway.

Guy came in swinging wild punches and clinching me whenever he could. I blocked well and countered with straights. He barely got anything through, and I landed a fair few hard lefts to the chest and boyd, and straights rights over the top on his face. Twice the right landed hard enough to rotate his headgear, and ref gave a quick pause to let him reset. I would've landed more if he didn't clinch me so much, and it was the first time ever I had to deal with someone using this tactic, although I believe refs deducted points from him for doing so as it's illegal in amateur fights. There were a few times I was coming forward with combos, and he didn't even bother with the boxing, ducked down (face down to the ground, head around belt level, illegal position I believe) and clinched me. He was hoping to intimidate me with his hard and wild swinging punches in the beginning, but I kept rolling and blocking and walking forward with my straights, so as the fight drew to an end, he was on the backfoot and looking out of gas. Had it gone on longer, I'd have made it even more convincing.

My club had 6 novices competing, 3 won, 3 lost. I'm happy to get a win for the team, as mine was kinda written off at the start due to the fact that I had to face someone heavier and way more experienced.

It felt a bit easier to breathe this time compared to my first exhibition fight, but my feet still felt kinda numb, then tingly, then really heavy. My coach told me to move more to my right, and I tried to but it was nowhere near as smooth as in training. At times I had to resist the urge to go wild and swing hard with him. I did find that I wanted to fight him as he went in hard, while some of my team mates were looking like running away under the same situation (the 3 that lost). I'm happy with the way I responded.

This is going to give my training so much more focus!

Post: #570

Awesome Strikeback, congratulations for the win, and the way you handled the situation.

Post: #571

Thanks mate, can't wait to get back to training today!

Post: #572

That's awesome strike back. Always love to hear the stories of victory more so when it's against someone who was slated to win against ya.

Post: #573

Thanks mate

Training last night felt so good, I felt indefatigable!

Post: #574

Finally joined a boxing gym this week because of this thread & the official boxing thread.

I'm paying $200 a month here in Los Angeles which seemed a bit steep but convinced myself it's a good deal since that price includes personal training by two well known boxing trainers.

This week I did what they told me to do

10 minutes on eliptical

3 minute Rounds of
Jump Rope, Shadow Boxing, Footwork around the ring, Punching Bag, Uppercut Bag, Speed Bag, Double End Bag

+3 Rounds of getting in the ring with someone, learning some fundamentals (jab, blocking jab, cutting off the ring, figuring out distance)

Followed by some ab excersices & usually 2-3 more rounds of heavy bag or speedbag or whatever it is I'm feeling.

I get home & do another 50 pushups, 30 pull ups. As recommended in this thread, I'm going to start doing different types of push ups & maybe add a backpack when I do pull ups.

Of course I want to be a good boxer but I also want to change this skinny fat body & get rid of this damn belly & pair of man boobs. I'm 24, 5'9, I weigh 155lb & look OK with clothes on, but I'm embarrassed to take off my shirt around anyone. I was always a fat kid growing up & was 200lb at my fattest point.

I work at a high end restaurant & I can pretty much eat whatever I want 5 days of week. Any tips in regards to nutrition? I was thinking of intermittent fasting + eating at a Calorie deficit.

Thank you all, this forum has changed my life.

Post: #575

Hey all!

I had my 2nd interclub boxing 2 weeks ago, again in the novice 70-75kg class (2x90s rounds, 30s break). My goals going into this comp were: to be more comfortable in the ring, move around more and stay balanced/grounded while punching.

I was matched with, to be expected, a significantly taller opponent with much longer reach. In the first round, he opened aggressively with lots of jabs, while I moved laterally or ducking under and countering with jabs to the body, right hand to the body or right hand over the top to the head. While he landed a few jabs with me trying to come in to compensate for my shorter reach, I managed to land a couple of right-hands to the head, one to the body and a few jabs to the body. My guard was high and blocked a lot of his power shots. I think he only got through a left hook which landed partially on my right guard anyway.

In the second round, I moved more to my right / his left with a jab, then upon getting the angle, immediately came forward with a double-jab right combo. I found that he would have to cover up immediately or move back, and while moving back he could not punch. He tried coming forward a few times, I'd step back a little just out of reach to make him lean in, then either hit him with an overhand right to the head, or slip to the side and hit a right hand to the body. As the round progresses, his jab slowed significantly and his left hand also dropped a lot, ripe for my right hand over the top which is my favourite punch. I was the aggressor and feeling very confident as he didn't have any power punch that could hurt me, and my fitness was also better than his.

What I should've done more there, in hindsight, was to stay in there a bit longer after moving in with double jab right while he's covering up or backpedalling. I moved out too quickly after doing all the hard work coming in. That's my goal for the next comp.

To our surprise, the judges gave him the win for the match. He hardly landed anything on me except jabs, certainly no clean power punch, while I landed quite a few. Does not matter, as it's a non-serious interclub comp. A couple of my fellow club mates got similar BS judgement. We are a very small and young club (only 2 years old) vs the much more established, multi-decade running clubs so we didn't expect to get many decisions our way.

I achieved the couple of simple goals I set for myself, and hope to add a few more to my arsenal next comp.