Post: #576

weekly im cyp.

Post: #577

Just went to the doc for the first time.



The man was almost 70 years old and looks 35. We talked for two hours about everything from the migrant crisis to testosterone prescription levels for bodybuilders.

The shot was painless and a non issue. He is a big fan of zinc and apple cider vinegar.

He charged me only for supplies and as a side bonus wrote me a script for adderall.

In summary, 10/10.

Post: #578

(01-20-2016 05:18 PM)storm Wrote:  Just went to the doc for the first time.

The man was almost 70 years old and looks 35. We talked for two hours about everything from the migrant crisis to testosterone prescription levels for bodybuilders.

The shot was painless and a non issue. He is a big fan of zinc and apple cider vinegar.

He charged me only for supplies and as a side bonus wrote me a script for adderall.

In summary, 10/10.

Test and Adderall. Party time.

Post: #579

Jesus. If only it were that easy everywhere. Enjoy.

Post: #580

Anyone in Canada had success finding TRT? There was that guy in Edmonton who found a doctor at an anti-aging clinic and the most reputable one I found near Vancouver is $550/hour, money I don't have.

I am going to get my blood checked soon, I don't hate paying $100 a month for this but I don't want to pay a doctor $300 to tell me everything I've read in Mike's podcasts and he won't get me on it. I don't think Costco sells it here either.

Iron and Tweed was mentioned but he has been a great resource. I would already be on LowTestosterone.com if I was in America.

http://ironandtweed.com/an-intro-to-test...e-and-trt/

Post: #581

I´m reading up on TRT these days since I am planning to start soon. And I see that there are conflicting theories about what is the best way to take it.

Some says that the best way is to inject test propionate every other day.

But both Dr Tierry Hertoghe and Dr John Crisler like best using T gel.
And since Tierry is my doctor that is probably what he will put me on. Just wondering if I should ask for injection instead.

So just wondering if anyone have tried both and made up an opinion about which method made them feel best?


And wondering if anyone have tried trt both with and without Hcg and felt any different? Except for the bigger balls.

Looking for insight from people who have tried both ways and made an opinion about what felt best.

Post: #582

They recommend T gel coz it is making them more money.

Post: #583

(01-28-2016 02:38 AM)Мортен Wrote:  But both Dr Tierry Hertoghe and Dr John Crisler like best using T gel.
And since Tierry is my doctor that is probably what he will put me on. Just wondering if I should ask for injection instead.

(01-28-2016 04:51 AM)roid Wrote:  They recommend T gel coz it is making them more money.

They prescribe it because it better mimics the circadian rhythm of T production.

Dr. Hertoghe prescribes T gel from a compounding pharmacy, not that overpriced androgel crap.
Probably he will start you on 1g a day of a 10% gel (thus 1g of gel contains 100mg of T).
And this will cost approximately 1 euro per day (100 euro for a 100g supply).

Try it and see how you react. You can ask for injections if you don't absorb the gel or if you're getting unreasonable amounts of E2 or DHT from it.

Post: #584

One more thing: don't start taking everything he prescribes at once.
I don't now for Hertoghe himself, but some of his cabinet partners have the nasty habit to prescribe supplements and hormones for every slight deficiency on your blood panel. It's not uncommon to walk away with prescriptions for an entire stack of vitamins and supplements + thyroid + hydrocortisone + DHEA + pregnenolone + T.

Tackle your problems in this order:
1) lifestyle and food
2) vitamins and minerals
3) thyroid, pregnenolone (not sure if thyroid should go here or with DHEA)
4) DHEA, progesterone
5) hydrocortisone
6) T
7) aromatase inhibitors, hcg (can swap hcg and test if LH/FSH remains low)
8) growth hormone

where you give every change a couple of weeks to evaluate the effects.

Starting everything at once is a recipe for disaster and a guarantee for not finding what is actually wrong with you.

Post: #585

(01-28-2016 12:17 PM)PhDre Wrote:  One more thing: don't start taking everything he prescribes at once.
I don't now for Hertoghe himself, but some of his cabinet partners have the nasty habit to prescribe supplements and hormones for every slight deficiency on your blood panel. It's not uncommon to walk away with prescriptions for an entire stack of vitamins and supplements + thyroid + hydrocortisone + DHEA + pregnenolone + T.

Tackle your problems in this order:
1) lifestyle and food
2) vitamins and minerals
3) thyroid, pregnenolone (not sure if thyroid should go here or with DHEA)
4) DHEA, progesterone
5) hydrocortisone
6) T
7) aromatase inhibitors, hcg (can swap hcg and test if LH/FSH remains low)
8) growth hormone

where you give every change a couple of weeks to evaluate the effects.

Starting everything at once is a recipe for disaster and a guarantee for not finding what is actually wrong with you.

Thanks!

I saw your blood test from an earlier post PhDre.
You had SHBG in the 60s, low estrogen, low free t and middle testosterone levels? What did Dr Hertoghe say about it? Where they easily able to figure out what to do about the high SHBG levels?

I have almost identical lab results, except my totalt testosterone is 1050.

One answer to the SHBG problem seems to be to administer more testosterone, but mine seems to be pretty high already.
Anyone know how high total testosterone levels one can have before it becomes problematic?

Post: #586

I tried gel and pellets for a while, but it just didn't work for me. I'm much better off now with injections.

Post: #587

Ok, instead of sifting through 24 pages of information, I'm going to ask this quick question:

If I'm already receiving TRT legally through a clinic, but feel they are charging me out the ass---I just paid $350 for 5 weeks of take-home injections, one in-office injection and one blood panel---Can I take my prescription and get testosterone through the mail, or something? Somewhere more competitively-priced? I feel like $300/month is too much.

Post: #588

(01-28-2016 10:51 PM)Checkmat Wrote:  Ok, instead of sifting through 24 pages of information, I'm going to ask this quick question:

If I'm already receiving TRT legally through a clinic, but feel they are charging me out the ass---I just paid $350 for 5 weeks of take-home injections, one in-office injection and one blood panel---Can I take my prescription and get testosterone through the mail, or something? Somewhere more competitively-priced? I feel like $300/month is too much.

Yes, contact Defy Medical. They practice tele-medicine. You don't need to be in Florida to use the service.

You're getting ripped off. You'll pay 1/3 of that with Defy depending on your protocol.

Post: #589

(01-28-2016 04:58 PM)Мортен Wrote:  I saw your blood test from an earlier post PhDre.
You had SHBG in the 60s, low estrogen, low free t and middle testosterone levels? What did Dr Hertoghe say about it? Where they easily able to figure out what to do about the high SHBG levels?

I have almost identical lab results, except my totalt testosterone is 1050.

One answer to the SHBG problem seems to be to administer more testosterone, but mine seems to be pretty high already.
Anyone know how high total testosterone levels one can have before it becomes problematic?

Unless you have a genetic abnormality, high/low SHBG levels are a symptom of something else that is wrong, and not the cause of the problem:
http://www.peaktestosterone.com/High_SHBG.aspx
http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Low_SHBG.aspx
Mine for instance seems to be caused by chronically low DHEAS levels.

Don't expect too much from Dr. Hertoghe (I'm surprised you got an appointment with him, I was told it was nearly impossible due to his super busy agenda so I am under treatment with one of his cabinet partners) or his partners.
Their line of treatment seems to be: administer every hormone for which the blood panel shows a deficiency.
If you're an old guy who's production has naturally gone down, that's a good approach.
If you're a young guy who's hormonally not ok and wants to find the root cause, that's not the right approach.
But honestly, that seems to be the case with 99.99% of HRT doctors out there. From what I read, the only person who really seems to delve for the root cause is Dr. Mariano.

So use the doctor to get the blood panels and the prescriptions for the hormones and then do your own research on All Things Male, Excel Male, Think Steroids ... and self medicate.
If you think that's irresponsible: note that I advocate to start at lower dosages and far less products than the dr. prescribes and don't exceed his prescription values.

And also: listen to forum member n/a's advice if he ever contacts you in pm.

Post: #590

Awesome responses PhDre!

My appointment is actually with one of his partners, but I scheduled two hours so that Dr Hertoghe will supervise and give his opinions on it on the second hour. Pretty sure he will just be in and out again, but I will grill him for the root cause of the problem since I´m only 32.

Yeah. It´s a good idea to be your own doctor. And I have no problem with self-medicating. But gonna spend some some time gathering information now before I start another regiment then what Dr Hertoghe suggest. And I need prescriptions for getting the gear out to where I work.
Pluss I would like his take on anti-aging in general.

Will write a review of my meeting with the doctor afterwards.

Post: #591

(01-28-2016 11:39 PM)YardDog Wrote:  

(01-28-2016 10:51 PM)Checkmat Wrote:  Ok, instead of sifting through 24 pages of information, I'm going to ask this quick question:

If I'm already receiving TRT legally through a clinic, but feel they are charging me out the ass---I just paid $350 for 5 weeks of take-home injections, one in-office injection and one blood panel---Can I take my prescription and get testosterone through the mail, or something? Somewhere more competitively-priced? I feel like $300/month is too much.

Yes, contact Defy Medical. They practice tele-medicine. You don't need to be in Florida to use the service.

You're getting ripped off. You'll pay 1/3 of that with Defy depending on your protocol.

EDIT: Never mind, talked to them on the phone just now.

If you want credit for the referral program the guy (Adam) mentioned, PM me.

Post: #592

Had my 90 day followup with Dr. Saya at Defy yesterday after 3 months on Arimidex/DIM, DHEA, and twice weekly "Lipo-C" injections.

My new numbers:

Total T: 699 (was 696)
Free T: 11.6 (was 10.8)
Estradiol: 24.2 (was 47)
LH: 10.7 (was 10.1)
SHBG: 70.3 (HIGH ref. range is 16.5 - 55.9)
DHEA 457.5

I reported not feeling much different after 90 days on the protocol. Weight and body fat about the same, at 185/17%.

I don't feel any worse than before, but not much better, either. Dr. Saya said that is likely because my free T did not move, despite getting the Estradiol number into the proper range.

I asked if there is a way to get the elevated SHBG number down, and he said other than the Stinging Nettle Root I'm already taking, there really is no way to do that other than going on TRT.

He said that normally he would not prescribe TRT to a patient still producing almost 700 naturally, but he would be flexible in my case (50 years old, stubborn free T, missing a nut from a motorcycle wreck in 1992) and if I wanted to start, he would prescribe it. However, he cautioned that once I start, it's a lifetime commitment.

In the end, I agreed to go another 90 days on the current protocol, but try again to cut back on my alcohol intake (didn't have much luck breaking that habit), which I know elevates SHBG.

It seems prudent to do everything possible to address the issue without starting lifetime hormone replacement, but it's good to know he'll prescribe should I decide to go that route.

Regarding the "Lipo-C" injections, I can't say they are doing much for me. I'll probably use up the rest of the bottle and not refill it.

Post: #593

^ JayR, did they check your liver and thyroid function?

Your total T, estradiol and DHEA are great, especially for your age.

Post: #594

(01-28-2016 11:39 PM)YardDog Wrote:  

(01-28-2016 10:51 PM)Checkmat Wrote:  Ok, instead of sifting through 24 pages of information, I'm going to ask this quick question:

If I'm already receiving TRT legally through a clinic, but feel they are charging me out the ass---I just paid $350 for 5 weeks of take-home injections, one in-office injection and one blood panel---Can I take my prescription and get testosterone through the mail, or something? Somewhere more competitively-priced? I feel like $300/month is too much.

Yes, contact Defy Medical. They practice tele-medicine. You don't need to be in Florida to use the service.

You're getting ripped off. You'll pay 1/3 of that with Defy depending on your protocol.

Defy will write you the prescription for another pharmacy for a very small fee, but that other pharmacy needs to be in Florida. I tried to do exactly this but since I don't live in Florida they are no help. I went to my regular local doctor and he agreed to write me the scrip after my next physical and blood test. I'm paying something like $250/month for Defy and a Florida pharmacy, and hope to be paying half that when I change to a local doc and Costco pharmacy in about 6 weeks.

Post: #595

(02-03-2016 11:50 AM)PhDre Wrote:  ^ JayR, did they check your liver and thyroid function?

Your total T, estradiol and DHEA are great, especially for your age.

Dr. Saya mentioned that based on other lab numbers (1.27 mg/dl creatinine, etc.), my liver and kidney functions were fine.

He never said anything about thyroid.

He also mentioned that the DHEA I bought (Fountain of Life Micronized -- somebody on here recommended it) is definitely the real thing based on my high number.

Post: #596

Never trust any dr. That says ur labs are "fine". Fine to what ranges??? Compare your labs yourself.
On the subject concerning how to take test, injections > orals > gels in that order.
JayR. Do yourself a favor and get on trt. READ about it first for a few months however.

Post: #597

One month in.

The first two and a half weeks were rough. For example. I became emotional and depressed for the second part of each week. In particular, I didn't get out of bed until 5pm on the last day of the first week. For the first few weeks, I always woke up with my heart pounding.

On the other hand, I had a huge business success two days after my first shot. Went in to get labwork that day: around 1000. The 1000 level feels good to me.

These last few weeks have been amazing. I'm noticing sharpened mental facilities. This leads to an interesting theory: mathematics is seen by some to be a young man's game. I wonder if this is largely due to the effects of dropping testosterone levels.

My question for you guys:
My doctor asserts that a fluxuating test level (i.e. one shot every seven days) is healthier for the body. I would much rather always be operating in the 1000 range. Is he right? If not, what could I say to him that would be convincing?

Post: #598

storm, I'd try to get him to bump you up to 150/wk of cyp. With cyp or enth, you shouldn't be fluctuating too much. Especially with cyp.

In either case, 80 mg seems a bit low and id try to talk him up to at least 100 preferably 150.

I think youre fluctuating because youre on a low dose.

You could try injecting 2x a week but I dont really think thats necessary with cyp

Post: #599

I'm taking a 12, maybe 14 week steroid cycle of 250mg Test E every 3.5 days, HCG 250iu every 3.5 days, and Arimidex EOD. I did a lot of research on the subject before hand so if anything has any questions then ask a way.

Storm I recommend you maybe look into trying Test E instead of Cyp, see how you feel.

Post: #600

(02-21-2016 07:16 PM)MiscBrah Wrote:  storm, I'd try to get him to bump you up to 150/wk of cyp. With cyp or enth, you shouldn't be fluctuating too much. Especially with cyp.

In either case, 80 mg seems a bit low and id try to talk him up to at least 100 preferably 150.

Strongly agree. I started at 100/week which brought me from ~230 to 550. Im now trying 120/week....target is 700-800. I just did labs two days ago, so I will see where I am reference the target.

I don't think 80/week is enough to make a significant change. Go to at least 100/week and see how that goes.