Post: #276

I just think he's trying to say that it is almost impossible to truly understand the mindset of those less blessed with "game positive" circumstances.

Which I sort of agree with and sort of disagree with (what a useful statement huh).

Post: #277

I think we can all agree that having a better body will improve your success with women but are the benefits of having nice physique relative to average greater than the consequences of having a poor physique compared to average? For instance assuming that level of game is the same in all cases will the man with a 7/10 body have a greater degree of change in attraction from 5/10 than the 3/10 will have from 5/10?

Post: #278

^What is a 7/10 body?

I look at it as most men are out of shape, so if you are in decent shape you fall into 10% of men that are in shape.

I know a fitness model in his early 20s, woman approach him aggressively. The oldest chick he has banged has been 40.

Personally, me at my best shape. I have had girls grab my ass in clubs and act girly in front of me. My workout partner was freaking out over two lesbians gawking at me in the gym.

Post: #279

(01-12-2016 06:47 PM)Jazzman92 Wrote:  I think we can all agree that having a better body will improve your success with women but are the benefits of having nice physique relative to average greater than the consequences of having a poor physique compared to average? For instance assuming that level of game is the same in all cases will the man with a 7/10 body have a greater degree of change in attraction from 5/10 than the 3/10 will have from 5/10?

Post: #280

My frame is small. As such, I don't think I could ever have an imposing physique without some sort of assistance. Though, I believe I still have some ways to go before I can reach my genetic potential.

That said, the 10-15 pounds (reasonable estimate) of muscle I've put on from my years of training make it so that I'm not lanky when I'm lean, nor a skinny-fat blob if I'm weighing a bit more than I should. Personally, this alone has made a significant difference when it comes to attraction.

You don't have to have an elite physique to do well. But you should be in good shape. Above average at least.

Post: #281

Body fat body fat body fat

I got laid the most when I was between 6-8% body fat. Coincidentally, when I packed on more muscle and my body fat went up I got more respect but less overt hits from women interested in me.

Post: #282

(01-13-2016 09:10 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  Body fat body fat body fat

I got laid the most when I was between 6-8% body fat. Coincidentally, when I packed on more muscle and my body fat went up I got more respect but less overt hits from women interested in me.

how did you showcase your body?

Post: #283

(01-13-2016 09:10 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  Body fat body fat body fat

I got laid the most when I was between 6-8% body fat. Coincidentally, when I packed on more muscle and my body fat went up I got more respect but less overt hits from women interested in me.

How were you measured to be 6%?

The problem with sub 10% bf is that is its extremely hard to tell the difference between someone with 6% and 12% bodyfat with clothes on. Even if they're wearing a tight tshirt, the 12% bodyfat person will look significantly bigger without looking noticeably fatter at all. Pretty much the only people who might notice the subtle signs (vascularity in arms etc) are male bodybuilders.

Even in a beach environment 10% bodyfat should be low enough for decent abs without reducing size too much. Plus you can actually have something of a normal lifestyle maintaining that level of bodyfat.

Post: #284

^ I have to disasgree in that you can definitely see the difference, look even at just the lower part of the upper arm on somebody with true 6-7% bodyfat, the part that shows even in a normal t-shirt, and the seperation with the lower part of the triceps, the brachialis, and the tendons is insane. V taper and the way clothes hang is also night and day between somebody of 12% bodyfat and someone of 6% bodyfat. Problem is looking / being small.

Post: #285

(01-17-2016 04:29 PM)Kieran Wrote:  ^ I have to disasgree in that you can definitely see the difference, look even at just the lower part of the upper arm on somebody with true 6-7% bodyfat, the part that shows even in a normal t-shirt, and the seperation with the lower part of the triceps, the brachialis, and the tendons is insane. V taper and the way clothes hang is also night and day between somebody of 12% bodyfat and someone of 6% bodyfat. Problem is looking / being small.

Throw up picture examples. Remember, if you are 6% and just lean as fcuk, it has little bearing on how you look with clothes on. You really only need a good chunk of muscle and be in the 12% range. Again, I'm talking about natural bodybuilders, not roid examples. Roiders obviously won't even jump into this debate.

Post: #286

(11-03-2015 01:37 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  "(FYI I've been lifting weights for over two years.) "

This doesn't mean anything. A lot of people have been "lifting" for over two years and still look like pudgy boys.

I'm 5'10 and 191lbs, not six pack lean, but have a big chest and arms, and I get a lot of attention from my body. I also wear clothes that show it off.

When guys say their physique doesn't help them get laid I know it's because their physique isn't even noticeable.

Now, if you dress poorly, are naturally unattractive, and don't have solid game then yes, it won't be much help. So I agree it isn't the "panacea" for attraction problems, but it's definitely a big component.

But this has been debated over and over again on this forum. Guys who don't really lift will always try to justify it by saying stupid shit like "girls don't like bodybuilders!" and other weak arguments.

The problem is that most guys are too obsessed with achieveing low body fat numbers while they have too few muscle mass or too narrow bone-structure.

I'd rather be around 13-14% bf and quite thick and solid physique and look big in clothes than persueing the 8-9% of bf and being flat as hell with no muscle mass... Remember that you are 90%+ of time with clothes.

Post: #287

(01-17-2016 07:07 AM)zatara Wrote:  

(01-13-2016 09:10 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  Body fat body fat body fat

I got laid the most when I was between 6-8% body fat. Coincidentally, when I packed on more muscle and my body fat went up I got more respect but less overt hits from women interested in me.

How were you measured to be 6%?

The problem with sub 10% bf is that is its extremely hard to tell the difference between someone with 6% and 12% bodyfat with clothes on. Even if they're wearing a tight tshirt, the 12% bodyfat person will look significantly bigger without looking noticeably fatter at all. Pretty much the only people who might notice the subtle signs (vascularity in arms etc) are male bodybuilders.

Even in a beach environment 10% bodyfat should be low enough for decent abs without reducing size too much. Plus you can actually have something of a normal lifestyle maintaining that level of bodyfat.

Thats why 13-14% of bf might be the best range to hold a great amount of muscle, never going under 12%... Also it all depends on how much muscle you can gain. If you have a lot of muscle even at 13% of bf your body might look insane.. but if you have too little muscle..even 10% of bf might look like a lean guy who never went to the gym...

Post: #288

IMO the best place to be in is 15% when its winter and you are bulking, and then cut down to 12% for summer. You still look good at 15% if you have enough muscle.
I personally havn't seen a guy under 10% who isn't on roids or skinny as fuck.

Post: #289

The BF indicator is misleading, people store fat in different places.

I have a big bottom, I am sure it ain't all muscle but my BF is decent. Not that I care, I am concerned about my calves and my abs.

You guys are debating over the small stuff, in the animal kingdom do you look like a guy that can protect his woman. Sure, you may not think it is important but others do and they take it seriously.

Ostermann - not to be arrogant. I was in Zagreb a few years back and I wore a deep V-neck white t-shirt that showed my developed chest. The response was crazy, from what I can see there isnt't a big gym culture there. Roosh told me that when he went to the gym, dudes looked at him sideways as he did deadlifts. Most dudes in the gym were doing chest and arms.

This is a real world example, not what you imagine or think.

Post: #290

If you get too big/muscular do you think you end up intimidating girls who would have otherwise approached when you were smaller? I've read things from Chris at GLL suggesting this.

Post: #291

^ Are girls approaching you now?
If the answer is yes then you are doing something right and have a look that is pleasing to them.

Getting bigger or muscular shoudn't turn off a girl, unless she is insecure about herself. Which is often the case.

The girls I target usually appreciate a good build.

I live in a competitive marketplace, so being out of shape isn't going to help my cause. Nicer looking gals generally like bigger guys, the only exception is when I see skinny hipster guys or the few guys that have extreme game.

Post: #292

(02-14-2016 12:24 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  ^ Are girls approaching you now?

I would say no, not compared to a couple of years ago, when I was on the skinny-fat end of things (but looked basically normal in clothes).

I was at a house party recently and during a conversation between myself, a friend, and a woman (40), he said something like "he's been lifting weights" about me, and the woman said, "well, obviously". So I guess I look at least somewhat big.

Post: #293

[/quote]

Aye.

My calves are the only body part I have that give me problems. I only have to look at someone doing a shoulder press to grow my delts. I can skip and calf raise all day and only get minor growth.

Frustrating but it is pure genetics. My dad has been a lifelong bodybuilder and had the exact same problem.
[/quote]

Yeah I am in that camp, sometimes my workouts just consist of doing calves and abs. I have added a little to my calves, but I do 140 reps on different machine.
Still they aren't anything to brag about.
[/quote]

Post: #294

(02-14-2016 11:54 AM)RexImperator Wrote:  If you get too big/muscular do you think you end up intimidating girls who would have otherwise approached when you were smaller? I've read things from Chris at GLL suggesting this.

There are only two types of guys I've ever seen lose girls due to their size:

- Guys who're juicing, so are absolutely huge
- Guys built like powerlifters, who are both fat and built

If you're natural, and have relatively low bodyfat, I don't think its possible to get 'too big'. A small minority of nerdy/hipster girls might be turned off due to what they perceive your muscles say about your personality, but you'll be gaining more attention overall than you'll lose.

Your friends' girlfriends/platonic female friends might say you're "too big", but a large part of that is jealousy. The vast, vast majority of girls you're likely to be gaming won't agree.

Post: #295

(02-14-2016 07:09 PM)zatara Wrote:  

(02-14-2016 11:54 AM)RexImperator Wrote:  If you get too big/muscular do you think you end up intimidating girls who would have otherwise approached when you were smaller? I've read things from Chris at GLL suggesting this.

There are only two types of guys I've ever seen lose girls due to their size:

- Guys who're juicing, so are absolutely huge
- Guys built like powerlifters, who are both fat and built

If you're natural, and have relatively low bodyfat, I don't think its possible to get 'too big'. A small minority of nerdy/hipster girls might be turned off due to what they perceive your muscles say about your personality, but you'll be gaining more attention overall than you'll lose.

Your friends' girlfriends/platonic female friends might say you're "too big", but a large part of that is jealousy. The vast, vast majority of girls you're likely to be gaming won't agree.

It's very difficult [Or dare I say impossible] to get too big if you're natural. I've heard guys say all the time: "I want to start lifting but I don't want to get too bulky…" [Almost mirrors the women who say I don't want to lift because I will look like Arnold] Lol.

The reality is that it takes a lot of work/ideal circumstances to achieve a lean and at the same time muscular physique…

An aesthetic physique should lose you the sum total of '0' women [With regards to the bang]. I know many cases where first hand it makes women hesitant to date you however, but that's a different story entirely.

Post: #296

^People crack me up with the too big comment. It is a excuse to not workout.

To pack on size takes years of consistent weight training, in addition to a good diet.

There are no shortcuts, even if you take steroids. Any gains you get from them will quickly disappear once you are off a cycle.

The key is to build muscle memory, again this takes years.

Post: #297

Well, I meant big in terms of both muscle and fat. People have different ideas of what someone who lifts looks like. If you take a guy like Jason Blaha for example, some bodybuilder types might say he's a "fat fuck".

Post: #298

Jason Blaha is a fat fuck.

He has no definition in his "muscles"

Do you really want to look like him?

Post: #299

(02-15-2016 02:52 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  Well, I meant big in terms of both muscle and fat. People have different ideas of what someone who lifts looks like. If you take a guy like Jason Blaha for example, some bodybuilder types might say he's a "fat fuck".

To put a number on it; if someone is over 20% bodyfat their number one priority should be cutting. They're not "too big" because of weight training, they're too big because of fatness.

There are absolutely no benefits to be gained carting around that much fat. Its worse for your health, its worse for your hormonal balance, its worse for your cardio endurance, and worst of all you'll look like shit - even if you've got a decent amount of muscle mass underneath.

Approx 15% bodyfat in my experience is the point where you can live a reasonable lifestyle (eating out, drinking alcohol regularly etc) while still looking good if you've got muscle on you. If you're living in a beachy environment (or just going on a beach holiday) maintaining 10-12% is probably worth the extra effort, though. Nobody at 10-12% bodyfat will be "too big", unless they've done multiple steroid cycles.

Post: #300

Now that I've come back to this thread after a while, I was thinking how silly it is that people who have no fitness at all are saying things like
"If you get too big chicks won't be attracted".

It's funny because to get "that big" requires years of discipline and toil and potentially some AAS. Very few if any people have this in them.

So go lift men, chances are you will never be "too big" anyway.