Post: #1

So my sister fell into hard times, and I offered to let her use one one of my bedrooms with her daughter. I figure just a few months, and she'll get her shit together, over a year later, and she's still here. Turns out that her credit is all jacked up, and no apartment would rent to her. She's been paying rent on time, but she's really jamming me up. The house is always a huge mess, unwashed dishes in the sink every day, all of them hers and her daughter's, trash everywhere. I can't buy groceries, because I'll come back, and half of the food is gone, so I've been eating take out way more than I want to. I can't do any gaming or movies, because I have to keep the sound down. I can't bring anyone over because too much noise, can't smoke because her daughter has asthma problems. Totally fucking up my Feng Shui...

Anyways... It's not very brotherly to kick out my single mom sister and her daughter. and as I've said, she's paying her share, but considering the added expenses it breaks out about even.

Any advice??

Post: #2

"Evicting her" or "kicking her out" seems like a strong way to frame the act of asking her to move on; it seems like you're beating yourself up too much about this. You're not and never intended to be her landlord - you were just trying to help her out.

Just have a "grown-up" conversation with her about it and stress that you thought it was going to be temporary.

Accept that she may get defensive and blow up/guilt trip you. Hold on to your resolve and don't sway from your stance, but try not to get angry back either - chances are after she has some time to think about it, she'll come back later seeing it more from your point of view.

It's going to be an uncomfortable conversation, but if you want her out, you're the only one who can force her to get the ball rolling (you're currently making it easy for her, so she has no reason to change). Also, don't put it off or wait for the perfect time becasue there won't be one. That's just avoidance.

Her credit may be fucked, but there are options out there. And if she's short on cash, there are programs that will help her. Not to mention there are plenty of landlords who will give her a chance just because she's a single mom. She needs to stop making excuses and take charge of her own life.

She can even check out the shared homes listings on Craigslist. There are private home owners who often rent out extra bedrooms or even mother-in-law units in their backyard, and since they aren't an agency, they often choose a tenant based on personality instead of credit. There are many women who do this, and they would rather only rent to women (not to mention they'll feel an obligation to help a fellow woman who is a single mom).

I dated a single mom in my early 20s who rented places this way a few times - she also had fucked credit. I mean, that would basically be the same setup she has with you, so what's the difference?

Even if she wants her own place, generally private landlords are her best bet (you can filter for that on Craigslist) - apartment offices and property management companies are far less likely to bend the rules.

Give her a month or so to figure it out, but tell her it's time to start looking for another solution. If she's been with you over a year (and clearly not even bothered to try), you've done your part already.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #3

Why are you evicting her? Make her your slave. Tell her that in the rent is included making you dinner, cleaning the house, making your laundry, etc. Be a man forgodsake. About the groceries, she needs to buy them for both. Give her an extra money.
About bringing girls. fuck her. It's your house. It's your rules.
When you tell her this. She might try to pretend she's offended. And say: " are you serious?" Tell her to do this or fuck off. She will probably leave by her own foot anyway.

Post: #4

Fucking hell. Man up, take care of your family.

They're messing up your Feng Shui?????

Unfuck yourself.

Post: #5

My situation is quite different because I didn't know jack shit about this guy and won't give a jack shit about him anymore after he is gone.

I had a roommate and he turned out to be a crossdresser. I advised him to move based on lifestyle differences like an adult. He started acting like a woman and made himself pitiful by saying 'it's hard to find places here. don't throw me out in cold weather blah blah blah'
But after I gave him last call (you gotta go in 5 days. that's it), he got motivated and found a place in couple days.

If you tell her, she will come up with 10X more excuses and will blow up on you while sobbing. She just needs a motivation to find a place.

Since she is your sister, I say give her like 60~90 days to find a place. There is a good chance she will be Lazy and won't do shit till last minute and ask for one more month and another month.
so you have to keep checking with her if she is looking for a place.

Post: #6

Family or not, she is a tenant in YOUR home and should be treating YOUR home with respect. Eating your food, leaving garbage out, and being a shitty tenant is not acceptable; you are making sacrifices as it is. It seems like everyone has a family member who is a borderline deadbeat who abuses other family members goodwill; this can literally go on forever until the day they die if other family members have no backbone.

Deadbeat family members can cause enormous stress, cost you social opportunities (pretty hard to bang in the house/have LTRs, have friends over/build friendships, etc), and destroy families over disagreements in how to handle the deadbeat. You must avoid this.

That all said:

1. Give her 30/60 days official notice to move out or however amount of time you deem fair. Make sure its done officially in accordance with your jurisdictions requirements. She is a paying tenant and therefore likely has certain rights you MUST respect unless you want to get yourself in some hot water. Even if she agrees to go voluntarily when asked, make sure some record of official notification is done. No records and she can make up whatever bullshit sob story she wants to stall the day before she is suppose to move out. I would also video tape the conditions of the house/her part of the house prior to notifying her as well; in case you need evidence of her negligence in taking care of the property.

2. If her credit/money flow is jacked, point her to some kind of subsidized housing programs. Single moms generally get priority access with subsidized housing programs.

3. Be as detached and emotional-less as possible. Don't get suck into any arguments with her about the situation or anything else that could escalate. Shes a slob and has overstayed her welcome and its time for her to go. That's it. Nothing more to discuss.

4. Removing her is no different than evicting a non-family member from a legal standpoint.

5. You DO NOT want to fall into this trap like has happened to so many other families that support a deadbeat family member that after a period of time, the deadbeat becomes entirely dependent on the generosity of the rest of family to make up for their constant poor decisions and laziness. The longer you enable the deadbeat, the harder it will be to cut the person off and force them to become self-sustaining again. If it goes on for too long, it becomes all but impossible to get the deadbeat to become self-sufficient. If they can't get on any kind of welfare program when you cut them off after being too dependent (and can't/won't work), you're fucked from an ethical standpoint. It's a shitty position to be in.

Hopefully, you just need to simply ask her to move out and she goes cooperatively without any issue. A reasonable person should be willing to work with you to make a successful plan of exit; which I would assume is what you want ideally. But you must be mentally prepared to do the necessary thing if she starts acting entitled or belligerent and refuse to be held hostage solely because she is family.

It's really no different than regular women and game: if you give them an inch, they will take a mile.

Post: #7

Smack the little brat next time it makes a mess

Post: #8

Some questions come up while reading, don't need an answer but consider:
Is she working full time?
Where is the father of the child?
How old is the child?
Is your sister older/younger than you?
Why didn't she move in with your parents instead?

Sit her down during an otherwise non-stressful time and say
"This arrangement isn't working. Here are my standards with respect to cooking, cleaning, noise, my guests, etc. If you can't do this I will move your things to the curb and change the locks. If you comply, you can stay an additional 60 days."

Or start smaller and tackle the issues individually. "We don't leave dirty dishes in the sink in my home. I'm asking you from here on out to do (your dish standards). Can you agree to do this?" repeat as necessary for other issues. When she perhaps inevitably cannot comply, say "This isn't working out since you won't comply with my standards. So you have 60 days to move out."

Post: #9

The fact that your niece is living with you changes everything.

The little girl is the most important thing in this equation. She is blameless for having an irresponsible mother. And she is young, so with the right kind of support, she won't become a slob like her mother.

If it was just a question of your sister living with you, and needing to get rid of her, I would fully support any number of underhanded or aggressive strategies that would get her the fuck out of there yesterday.

But you are an uncle. That comes first.

Figure out what is best for your niece, and take it from there.

Post: #10

Move out?

Post: #11

I'm really surprised by the guys insinuating OP needs to man up and/or that he has an obligation to his niece or sister. Yes, don't throw them out on the street with a moment's notice and nowhere to go, but there's an entire nation out there blanketed with houses.

The guy has been renting to her for over a year when the original arrangement was a temporary waystation until she got on her feet.

No grown man should be forced to live with his sister just because she's a single mother unwilling to try. It doesn't have to be an aggressive or hostile parting, but sometimes people need a push before they start taking responsibility for themselves.

This entire situation can be defused with a few uncomfortable family discussions.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #12

(01-12-2016 12:04 PM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:  The fact that your niece is living with you changes everything.

The little girl is the most important thing in this equation. She is blameless ....

"Little princess" is blameless... unless she is the one not washing her plates in the sink. I mean, minors also can and should do common shores in a house (basic cleaning, keeping their room in order...).

Post: #13

(01-13-2016 07:54 AM)Going strong Wrote:  

(01-12-2016 12:04 PM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:  The fact that your niece is living with you changes everything.

The little girl is the most important thing in this equation. She is blameless ....

"Little princess" is blameless... unless she is the one not washing her plates in the sink. I mean, minors also can and should do common shores in a house (basic cleaning, keeping their room in order...).

It really depends on the age. From his post, I got the feeling that we are talking about a little girl, i.e. 5 years old or less.
If this is the case, "tough" love isn't the ticket here.
Boundaries and structure, of course.
Maybe I could have worded it differently, but my basic idea is that the mother (his sister) may well be a waste of space and irresponsible, but the kid shouldn't suffer for it.
And whatever her mother may be, that doesn't change the fact that the girl is his blood, his niece.
In my opinion, that means something. It is an obligation and responsibility.

Post: #14

put the house on the market

Post: #15

(01-13-2016 04:30 AM)Alpha_Romeo Wrote:  Move out?

(01-13-2016 10:20 AM)offthereservation Wrote:  put the house on the market

Are you guys being facetious?

Not sure if he's a renter or owner, but it's his house. He should uproot his whole life and move out instead of having an uncomfortable conversation with his own sister? Someone who he's probably been bickering with his entire life anyhow (including while they live together)?

No offense, but to me that doesn't seem like a very manly way to run your life. Being a man includes the way you deal with your family (specifically the females, given that they're the ones typically causing drama), and in some ways that might include obligations, but it also entails knowing when to and having the ability to put your foot down when the situation calls for it.

This is one of those times.

Moving out will solve the problem short-term, yes. But that approach is a lot of unnecessary convenience and no way to run a life if you ask me.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #16

(01-11-2016 02:53 AM)Skull_Leader Wrote:  So my sister fell into hard times, and I offered to let her use one one of my bedrooms with her daughter. I figure just a few months, and she'll get her shit together, over a year later, and she's still here. Turns out that her credit is all jacked up, and no apartment would rent to her. She's been paying rent on time, but she's really jamming me up. The house is always a huge mess, unwashed dishes in the sink every day, all of them hers and her daughter's, trash everywhere. I can't buy groceries, because I'll come back, and half of the food is gone, so I've been eating take out way more than I want to. I can't do any gaming or movies, because I have to keep the sound down. I can't bring anyone over because too much noise, can't smoke because her daughter has asthma problems. Totally fucking up my Feng Shui...

Anyways... It's not very brotherly to kick out my single mom sister and her daughter. and as I've said, she's paying her share, but considering the added expenses it breaks out about even.

Any advice??

You need to gain some self-respect. How do you expect your sister to respect you if you allow her disrespectful behavior? Beyond Borders gave you a bunch of advice, but I have some things you should also consider:

1. She's trashing your house. How is this okay whether she's a single mother or otherwise?

2. She's got fucked credit. Why isn't she trying to unfuck her credit while you're letting her live with you for over a year? I'm sure you're charging her under market value for the room and then consider all that she's consuming and all that she's NOT contributing for.

3. She "fell onto hard times" how exactly? Are you sure it was something that happened to her and not something she created through her behavior?

Post: #17

(01-11-2016 05:29 AM)h3ltrsk3ltr Wrote:  Fucking hell. Man up, take care of your family.

They're messing up your Feng Shui?????

Unfuck yourself.

Post: #18

lol sry, I haven't been keeping up with this thread
But yeah...Younger sister. Baby daddy died in a car wreck (an "at fault" car wreck). She gets some Social Security money from that, but it's not much...
Parents don't have any space. They've downsized to a one bedroom apt since we've all moved out. My other sister lives in another state, and since I'm a single guy with a three bedroom house, naturally, I get the honor... I've talked to her about it before (the cleaning up, and not eating up the food) but compliance doesn't last... I've never been very sociable, and have had very few friends, so it's easy to just *not* bring anyone over, but this is something about me that I really want to get serious about changing, and there has been times that I have missed out on getting my dick wet because of this arrangement...
Imagine bringing a home, a sufficiently lubricated, DTF chick from a bar, to a house, tripping over Elsa figurines, kicking taco bell big box meal cartons, and going to the kitchen to get a drink...but, wait...you have to wash out a cup first, because they're all dirty...
And you can't be too loud because a little girl and her mom are in the next room trying to sleep...FML...

Post: #19

She's supposed to be taking care of her credit problems, I'll have to ask her about it in the morning...

Post: #20

If she can afford to pay rent but can't rent because nobody would rent to her. Why don't you co-sign the lease?

She gets her own place and moves out, you get back to your thing, all's well.

If she was my sister I would have taken care of her. Everything fades away but family is for life.

Post: #21

One day she might be the one who will shelter you. Put her to work. Make her work for you. Why don't you make her work? She don't compply. Reinforce. Or hire a maid and she pays for it. Or find her a room in the same location cheaper. There's a ton of solutions. Shes your family. Family is above everything.

Post: #22

Why are you living in a 3 bedroom house anyway? If you own it then what i would do is rent that out for some extra income and move into a smaller 1 bedroom place, maybe an apartment in a more central location with better logistics which can help with girls and also just make it easier to go out and be more sociable in general. You could then either rent out the spare rooms and have your sister still living there paying rent (but now she will have to pay her own food and other expenses) or just tell her to move on because you want to lease the entire house to someone. Maybe you could help her out with the lease on a new place if her credit is still bad.

Post: #23

I got the house because apts aren't accommodating to my hobbies. I'm a car guy, so I have several cars, I might want to do an engine swap, or upgrade the clutch without having to worry about waking up the next day to find out that something has been towed. I also do some random projects like steam engines, rocket stove, woodworking (haven't started with wood yet, but I want to) welding... shit like that...

Post: #24

(01-15-2016 02:38 PM)Skull_Leader Wrote:  I got the house because apts aren't accommodating to my hobbies. I'm a car guy, so I have several cars, I might want to do an engine swap, or upgrade the clutch without having to worry about waking up the next day to find out that something has been towed. I also do some random projects like steam engines, rocket stove, woodworking (haven't started with wood yet, but I want to) welding... shit like that...

Good man. You don't have to justify owning a house.

It's a tricky one, but as it's family I'd make a concerted effort to train her with tough love.

Post: #25

(01-15-2016 03:05 AM)Skull_Leader Wrote:  lol sry, I haven't been keeping up with this thread
I've talked to her about it before (the cleaning up, and not eating up the food) but compliance doesn't last...

Have you thought about flipping a shit one night with an attitude of "I had enough of your shit!" and snatch back your frame... Then read her the riot act. You can apologize the day after if it makes you feel better and blame it on a bad day at work, etc...take them out to dinner after a week of her being in good shape. But from there point it out immediately whenever something isn't up to your standards - tough love from there on out.

You can relax a bit over time from there but shock therapy might be the best way of changing things fast.