Post: #51

(01-06-2016 11:07 PM)Ingocnito Wrote:  

(01-04-2016 09:34 AM)HankMoody Wrote:  

(01-04-2016 09:28 AM)Rocha Wrote:  The easiest thing to do was after bringing the drinks, ask her if she knew them, then after her response, give them a firm shake of hands and a serious face, lay your arm around her, or if sitting side by side, lay your hand in the inside of her leg. Highly unlikely the dudes would still scavenge. And in no way this would start a fight.

Yes, that would have been the easiest thing to do. And it probably would have fixed the problem.

In the short term.

However, it wouldn't have fixed the real issue - that she was flirting with other men right in front of me. I'm not going to waste my time with a girl who I have to constantly worry about, or fend off other men from. There are too many available women out there, and the competition is a joke. She has to understand that.

It proved more effective to do something bold and audacious, because now she doesn't pull that kind of crap. That moment set the tone of our entire relationship.

I totally agree with Hank here. It' not like this was his first date with her. Having just nailed her the previous night, not only is it out of line for her to be so fervently chatting up a couple dudes, it's just plain rude as fuck, and no matter what bitch-test excuse she gives.. "you know I'm social.. blah blah blah," it was certainly an attempt to incite jealousy and go for an early power grab in the relationship.

If it was a first date, I'd interject quickly and maybe even tell the guys to scram if they didn't get the point right away. And if they insisted, pick the biggest one up by the throat and put him down by the back of the head... but I think they'd get the point.. haha.

I have to disagree with both of you guys here and again.
If it was a chick I was banging, I would deal first with the situation of the dudes, and then with her. If it was a first date, then yes, I could not care less, next.

Post: #52

(01-07-2016 08:22 AM)Rocha Wrote:  I have to disagree with both of you guys here and again.
If it was a chick I was banging, I would deal first with the situation of the dudes, and then with her. If it was a first date, then yes, I could not care less, next.

You disagree because you don't understand the problem. The situation with the dudes is only the surface of the problem. The root is her behaviour NOT theirs.

You disagree with how he handled it, yet these were his results. Exactly how much more successful than this could his choice of action be?

(01-04-2016 12:50 AM)HankMoody Wrote:  Never had an incident since then. Still banging her to this day.

Post: #53

(01-08-2016 02:29 PM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 08:22 AM)Rocha Wrote:  I have to disagree with both of you guys here and again.
If it was a chick I was banging, I would deal first with the situation of the dudes, and then with her. If it was a first date, then yes, I could not care less, next.

You disagree because you don't understand the problem. The situation with the dudes is only the surface of the problem. The root is her behaviour NOT theirs.

You disagree with how he handled it, yet these were his results. Exactly how much more successful than this could his choice of action be?

(01-04-2016 12:50 AM)HankMoody Wrote:  Never had an incident since then. Still banging her to this day.

No Aneroid, having a different perspective is not the same as not understanding the issue. I have never wrote or suggested that the root of the problem was in them. I wrote that the situation with them had to be dealed, and not passively like OP did. Of course the root of the problem is in her behaviour, and why a girl after a night of great sex and consequent release of serotonin, and still in her early hours of the day while having a brunch in broad daylight in the outside part of the place, has to fuck up big time, letting 2 guys seat right with her chatting, this all, while her man went inside to pick up some cocktails. Strange, right? Or did I missed something? Maybe is not just the girl that it is the root of the problem, it can be also the OP behaviour to her previously.
That is why I asked if the OP could clarify what kind of relationship do they have, wich is still unanswered. It is not the same situation if we are talking about a LTR or any other day spinning plate.
Tough, and feeling that the most important part is still unanswered, I gave a pratical advice on how to deal with the situation, wheter it was a LTR, a spinning plate, or just a plain friend. On the opposite, what I see more in this thread is a lot of excessive game theory (also some good advice e.g. Dantes), for a situation that has to be dealt no matter what. If you go, you go for good. This is just a mess, the guy stands 30 minutes of humilliation, then leaves to meet another girl that after a while he leaves for the one who hummiliated him, that for some magic reason and 2 or 3 badly typed messages is still with him without any further problems whatsoever. I was trying to contain myself to write this, but I feel that something is missing here, have doubts has to what realm this belongs to, and I will not jump in the same bandwagon as you. Also it offers some really bad advice to new guys, in my vision this is a borderline cuck behaviour.

Post: #54

What do you do when you guys are on the other side of the coin? This isn't a "humblebrag" - it does happen to me from time to time. Girl at a bar or club I know is there with a guy, starts talking to me outside or in line for drinks and asking me questions about me and where I'm from and other IOIs. Meanwhile her guy is sitting alone texting away.

Blow her off? Practice? Dunno?

Post: #55

(01-08-2016 06:12 PM)XPQ22 Wrote:  What do you do when you guys are on the other side of the coin? This isn't a "humblebrag" - it does happen to me from time to time. Girl at a bar or club I know is there with a guy, starts talking to me outside or in line for drinks and asking me questions about me and where I'm from and other IOIs. Meanwhile her guy is sitting alone texting away.

Blow her off? Practice? Dunno?

That sucks for that guy, I might feel a little bad for him, but if she's actively showing interest in me I'm not going to reject her or shoo her away on behalf of some guy that I don't even know. Now if it was an acquaintance, neighbor, friend, associate or someone that I have any respect for I'd probably cut it short, but definitely not for a random dude.

How far you want to push the interaction or the outcome depends on you and how hot the girl is or how much she interests you. If a chick is willing to ditch her date to be with you, that probably says a few things, for one about her that she's not very polite or considerate, but also that her date must be lame and not going very well.

Chances are the best thing to do would be to ask a girl for her number, ride out the conversation and let it come to its natural conclusion, and then go back to doing your thing, possibly hit on other chicks so that she can see you and get her wheels spinning about how attractive and in demand of a guy you are.

Post: #56

(01-08-2016 06:12 PM)XPQ22 Wrote:  What do you do when you guys are on the other side of the coin? This isn't a "humblebrag" - it does happen to me from time to time. Girl at a bar or club I know is there with a guy, starts talking to me outside or in line for drinks and asking me questions about me and where I'm from and other IOIs. Meanwhile her guy is sitting alone texting away.

Blow her off? Practice? Dunno?

This happened to me a few years ago, a drunk and decently cute girl is talking to me saying I knew her from the shop I work at.

I was playing darts with my friends and she kept leaning into me, at one point trying to hold my hand and kept blabbing.

I was drinking but had situational awareness enough to realize her dude was sitting at a table with some guys not far from us - at that point I just kept things aloof and blew her off gently.

If I talked to a girl and don't know she's with dude, it's fair game until the dude comes up or I found out she's got a man. (Practice or maybe the devil inside me wants to pull her)

If it's a girl I know has a guy at a bar or a club, I wouldn't give them time of day, they're seeking attention, validation, bitches be thirsty.

I ain't buying in, and I'll just ignore them or give them short responses.

Post: #57

(01-08-2016 06:12 PM)XPQ22 Wrote:  What do you do when you guys are on the other side of the coin? This isn't a "humblebrag" - it does happen to me from time to time. Girl at a bar or club I know is there with a guy, starts talking to me outside or in line for drinks and asking me questions about me and where I'm from and other IOIs. Meanwhile her guy is sitting alone texting away.

Blow her off? Practice? Dunno?

This one that happened to me a couple months ago in Skybar, Kiev, and I had the chance to write it down in the Ukraine thread:

Quote:In skybar, went for a smoke, a hot blonde in a group with other girl and an older guy starts to hit on me hard, I proceeded as usual, and then the guy tells me in perfect english that it is his girlfriend, he his an expat I guess, a 50 year old UK guy, and he starts discussing with her, if she wants me she can go, blablabla. Still, she does not quit, and started making conversation again in front of him, I tried to pour some water in the fire, but she was crazy for me, I had to bail out before some problems arouse. After a while I returned to the smoking area, the same girl started to do the same thing, and I told her that better we do not talk again...she did not obliged, I had to gave her my business card, I can tell it was like soothe the baby, she grabed like it was the last Coke in the desert...

Post: #58

(01-08-2016 05:10 PM)Rocha Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 02:29 PM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 08:22 AM)Rocha Wrote:  I have to disagree with both of you guys here and again.
If it was a chick I was banging, I would deal first with the situation of the dudes, and then with her. If it was a first date, then yes, I could not care less, next.

You disagree because you don't understand the problem. The situation with the dudes is only the surface of the problem. The root is her behaviour NOT theirs.

You disagree with how he handled it, yet these were his results. Exactly how much more successful than this could his choice of action be?

(01-04-2016 12:50 AM)HankMoody Wrote:  Never had an incident since then. Still banging her to this day.

No Aneroid, having a different perspective is not the same as not understanding the issue. I have never wrote or suggested that the root of the problem was in them. I wrote that the situation with them had to be dealed, and not passively like OP did. Of course the root of the problem is in her behaviour, and why a girl after a night of great sex and consequent release of serotonin, and still in her early hours of the day while having a brunch in broad daylight in the outside part of the place, has to fuck up big time, letting 2 guys seat right with her chatting, this all, while her man went inside to pick up some cocktails. Strange, right? Or did I missed something? Maybe is not just the girl that it is the root of the problem, it can be also the OP behaviour to her previously.
That is why I asked if the OP could clarify what kind of relationship do they have, wich is still unanswered. It is not the same situation if we are talking about a LTR or any other day spinning plate.
Tough, and feeling that the most important part is still unanswered, I gave a pratical advice on how to deal with the situation, wheter it was a LTR, a spinning plate, or just a plain friend. On the opposite, what I see more in this thread is a lot of excessive game theory (also some good advice e.g. Dantes), for a situation that has to be dealt no matter what. If you go, you go for good. This is just a mess, the guy stands 30 minutes of humilliation, then leaves to meet another girl that after a while he leaves for the one who hummiliated him, that for some magic reason and 2 or 3 badly typed messages is still with him without any further problems whatsoever. I was trying to contain myself to write this, but I feel that something is missing here, have doubts has to what realm this belongs to, and I will not jump in the same bandwagon as you. Also it offers some really bad advice to new guys, in my vision this is a borderline cuck behaviour.

The situation does matter, whether you met the girl 5 minutes ago, first date or you are actively seeing her. The OP has already banged this girl and clearly wants to continue. Therefore, the situation needs to be dealt with immediately.

I submitted my reasons in detail for why this is not the best course of action and actually it is poor frame. /thread-52722...pid1184142

This is no disrespect to the OP. I value this sort of post and appreciate the difficult situation he was in. I have been there.

My concern is also that many guys are buying into this because the result was there. Yes, he got laid and good for the him. However, if he repeated this 10x, he would be lucky if he got laid 1x. Batters find themselves on base after breaking their bat, but this is not the optimal means for reaching base.

There is a fundamental difference in drawing upon Game Theory and being battle-tested, having strong masculine Frame that is based on inner-confidence and experience. What we are observing in this thread is based on the former.

Frame and abundance mentality are intertwined. Drawing upon theory to enact them will only take you so far. They develop from countless experiences with women and strong inner game.

Initially, I was surprised at how much support the OP was getting for his frame (and it is a progression from where he started, but it is not an example to follow as it relates to frame). It becomes very clear to me that this support is largely predicated on game theory and not on real experience.

Post: #59

Quote:If it's a girl I know has a guy at a bar or a club, I wouldn't give them time of day, they're seeking attention, validation, bitches be thirsty.

I ain't buying in, and I'll just ignore them or give them short responses.

Sometimes I think it's a very smart move, as I found out the other night. Girl was chatting with me outside the bar, I'm somewhat familiar with this chick and know she has a dude who works on the staff there sometimes. But I'm fairly sure she doesn't know I know.

She's talking to me and going "Oh yeah, well you seem like a really cute and cool guy, why don't you come hang with me my friends?" (uh oh, attractive girl dtopping compliment bombs on me, red flag)

I say "Hmm I'll consider that" and go to the bathroom. Walk by her table and I notice her two friends are big time fatties.

Bait and switch avoided!

Post: #60

Great story from Hank and I don't have any criticisms or suggestions because he handled it his way. And whether or not she came running back is not the point, the point is that he wasn't going to let a female upset him.

Many of the responses on here have been based on whether or not you "game" her well enough so that she wants to stay (scarcity mentality). This is an absolute misunderstanding of what game is and shows that a lot of guys on here still believe that game is just some shit that helps you get laid.

Frame is Game.

And the name of the game is Your Happiness.

Meaning that anytime a female does something to make you unhappy, then your response has to be to hold frame (outcome independence). Hank's willingness to walk away is his game. The girl was compelled to respond because she now felt the pressure of losing something valuable. Whether or not she came running back was irrelevant to Hank, all that mattered was his happiness.

When women know they have no power to affect a man's happiness that's when they respond because now they know they've found an alpha, a valuable man. Hank showed her this when he casually walked away without a second thought. Having this level of frame is almost bittersweet because you lose the sense of indulgence from getting hot girls, but that's all ego anyways.

Frame is about defeating the ego and every man owes it to himself to reach this level because nothing is more important than the ability to dictate your own happiness. When a man can do this, when he is stronger than the body, no female can upset him.

Post: #61

(01-09-2016 05:27 AM)NomadofEU Wrote:  Hank showed her this when he casually walked away without a second thought.

I can't agree on that interpretation if he waited 30 minutes to remove himself from the situation and most of that time was being entertained by his phone.

Post: #62

IMO, the debate is splitting hairs here.

That's probably why the old guard called it pick-up artistry, and not pick-up science.

There's technique, but there's also an art to playing a woman ... like a fiddle

Post: #63

Hank, have you met any forum members?

Post: #64

Quote:Hank showed her this when he casually walked away without a second thought.

Quote:I can't agree on that interpretation if he waited 30 minutes to remove himself from the situation and most of that time was being entertained by his phone.

I don't know if 30 minutes was too long or not, but it definitely wasn't too short.

If Hank had left within the first couple of minutes, her reasoning would have easily been, "Oh Hank, you're just self-conscious" or something similar (like Hank's first part of the story). Then Hank looses frame.

By waiting the 30 minutes, and THEN ditching, she had no wiggle room as far as the above.

In any case, Hank's story is a great example of how to establish frame early on.

Post: #65

I had an experience the other night with a plate where she wanted to say hi to all these people at a benefit thing (possible work contacts for her). Sweet, feminine, and submissive- but also a natural attention whore. I found her talking to a dude at the bar, interjected in a friendly manner, and took control of the conversation.

I was ready to bounce. She kept asking me if she could introduce me to this person or that person, probably out of insecurity of approaching these people alone. I rolled with it for a couple hellos, but after that I went and hung at the bar and started talking to other people. Eventually we bounced, and we did bang before and after the date so it wasn't a loss or anything. But I was kind of annoyed while we were out. I let her know she was annoying without being emotional, but I realize now it would've been better to tell her I'm going and then she can come along or not.

Made me realize this:

Having gotten out of a relationship about 7 months ago, I'm not used to being out with a chick and dealing with this crap. Mostly been pulling SNLs off online game with a very specific 1 drink date and bang formula. This one I actually know from real life, and I think her hamster is working really hard to not make it all about sex, even though it's sliding more in that direction.

Post: #66

I think the only reason this worked for you was due to the fact that you fucked her on several occasions before that and you were in a casual venue.

Last year I went on a first date with an 24 year-old American slut who I met off Tinder and knew I had good odds for pulling a ONS with. Using the Tuthmosis First Date Bang recipe that I usually pull with these types, I meet her at my favorite dive bar for a couple rounds of drinks and to get in lots of kino. Smoothly, I transition us over to my second venue, an up tempo club, where I plan to get in some good bump and grind and build sexual tension. We're at the second venue for about 30 minutes, the place is like a gym, she's dancing on my dick. We're having a good time, kissing intermittently and I've got the end zone in sight.

I take the dreaded bathroom break shortly after this mark, only to return to her off to the side with a guy chatting her up with his arm around her shoulder. I make no hesitation, no looking at my phone, nada. I take her arm, walk her over to the bar and explain to her that I will not have her wasting my time and that if she is interested in other guys, we can both go our separate ways now. She's in shock, quite speechless and has no comeback. After her apology, we head back to the dance floor and continue with what we started. Within an hour of that exchange, I was fucking her in the living room of my apartment. She remained in my rotation for 3 months.

It would have been a fucking shameful and embarrassing L if my response after returning from the bathroom was anything close to this:

Quote:I'm visibly displeased, and sort of drifting into my phone. I check Facebook, Twitter, and then refresh Return of Kings. First it goes on for 5 minutes. Then 10. Then 15. Finally I walk inside to see if she'll notice. Another 10 minutes goes by and nothing.

The only lesson I'm taking away from Hank's story is how far sexual dominance can take you in regard to controlling some of these hoes.

Post: #67

Some of you seem like you don't get girls and they operate. Learn...

Women are like sponges. They consume everything that is around them. Usually spontaneously without thinking. Whatever catches their attention they soak it in until it gets boring or unimportant eventually. Sometimes it's whistling kettle and she just HAS TO interrupt you in the middle of your sentence to leave to the kitchen. Other times it's some people she catches herself talking to and forgets about you in the moment. That's just girls being girls. No worries.

We as men think it's disrespectful but it's not actually the case here. Girls just follow their instincts and unconsciously did what girls do naturally. Conversely, girls would say that we're disrespectful if we noticed something that we're very interested in nearby [car show? gun store?] and left them all alone by themselves. That's how it feels for a girl.

To those who get butthurt about it... don't freak out. In a situation like that you can leave like Hank or you can simply sit next to her put take her hand and put it on you lap, keep caressing it as she's talking to other guys, join the conversation and outgame them by keeping cool and slowly but surely draw her attention on yourself. It's not that hard, after all, random guys are rarely brave enough enough or capable to take a girl from a guy she's with.

The real problem is when your girl gets carried away with flirting too much or lets other guys touch her in a inappropriate way knowing that she's with you. OK that is a legit fuck up on her part which calls for laying down the law.

So basically I'm saying that this specific example of girl's behavior was not a legit calculated sign of disrespect towards him or something to overreact to that must be punished in order to keep frame. There were other options to deal with it equally effective. Hank chose to leave and pulled it off. Yippee ki yay!

Post: #68

I thought the OP story was one on how frame was lost and then recovered with a nuclear threat. Not one on solid Frame.

I have seen similar stories over the years on Game sites, but in my personal experience, a girl that you've fucked several times and who's into you will never go from 0 to 100 to disrespect and "shit test" you in such a manner. The little disrespects have to show up first, and if you have a solid Frame, you'd squash them way before the big bombs arrive, like in the OP. The girls I've been in a serious relationship with would self-criticise and apologise for the tiniest things that I may not even have noticed. I'm no big player, but I can't imagine any of them trying this stunt on me.

I'm curious to know what the OP's girl has tried to pull before that moment in the bar. When something like that happens to a man, while in the moment the OP's way might be a good solution, he should take a step back and ask himself two questions:

- Did I fail to nip the little disrespects in the bud before this?
- Did I fail at filtering out loser / low class women?

Post: #69

I'm curious, what is your dividing line between innocent conversation and actual flirting with another guy?

For me, it's if my girl touches the other guy while talking to him, especially more than once. That's when my alarms start going off. Same with not introducing me as her date / boyfriend / [whatever label she prefers to use as long as it's not "just a friend"]... even after me standing right there for at least 15 seconds.

Let's face it. If our girl is a 6 or 7 or higher, she's going to get approached by men, even in our presence. We all know that. But I feel like leaving every time she responds to a guy's opener is a little bit of an overreaction. No disrespect to HankMoody, I didn't actually SEE his situation go down, but 15-25 minutes of her ignoring him seems much too excessive and the OP may have done the right thing anyway.

Also, what if this was at a house party or some social circle event? Would you do the same thing?

Post: #70

(01-09-2016 08:07 PM)CleanSlate Wrote:  I'm curious, what is your dividing line between innocent conversation and actual flirting with another guy?

Same with not introducing me as her date / boyfriend / [whatever label she prefers to use as long as it's not "just a friend"]...

This is the one for me.

Any respectable player, in my eyes, would concede to this out of respect for a fellow player. It's a rule that I choose to follow. "Bro's before Ho's" as the saying goes.

And what if you were a sizeable fellow who works out like many forum members here? Any guy with some common sense would realise it's a situation to avoid and, upon your announcement as a date, would back off and eject.

If the guy doesn't have common sense, or your girl doesn't have common courtesy, well that's up to you

Post: #71

(01-04-2016 07:33 AM)262 Wrote:  I love the female hamstering in both examples.

"I'm pretty sure they're gay!"

Right.

Because gay guys have an incentive to chat up random straight women. Ok.

Try flipping that script..."Naw, baby, I only chatted those ladies up because I KNOW they were lesbians!"

Post: #72

Other than playing with the phone, this was an A+ reaction and something I would have done. Very nice job.

Post: #73

(01-08-2016 06:12 PM)XPQ22 Wrote:  What do you do when you guys are on the other side of the coin? This isn't a "humblebrag" - it does happen to me from time to time. Girl at a bar or club I know is there with a guy, starts talking to me outside or in line for drinks and asking me questions about me and where I'm from and other IOIs. Meanwhile her guy is sitting alone texting away.

Blow her off? Practice? Dunno?

"How do you two know each other?"

Of course, if they're just fucking, you can't expect a 100% honest answer, but at least you'll force the issue into the open and can gauge response. The guy could be an orbiter so you don't want to cut yourself off completely. Note: don't ask the guy while she's not present because he may lie if he likes her - I've experienced that before.

Anyhow, this is why I recommend bantering with the approaching party and said they shouldn't be resented. If you're that other guy, you have no clue what the deal is between the guy and girl, especially given her behavior. Only by speaking up and taking control of the conversation can a guy assert his "claim" (or allow her to), and if he just withdraws into himself and doesn't make his presence known, how can you be blamed for assuming he's a non-issue?

When he does engage in conversation, it is usually made clear through various subtle means that the girl is with him, whether he verbally states it or not, and if you're halfway decent you back off.

Know what I generally think if the guy just sits there playing in his phone?

- He only wishes he could fuck her.
- He's a cousin, brother, friend.
- He's a gay tagalong that is made uncomfortable by normal gender dynamics.
- He's a cuck.
(Sorry Hank Moody - no disrespect, and just being honest. I've had my moments too, but whether fair or not, these are my usual first impressions in a situation like this).

Anyhow, I see some guys in this thread saying they don't want to deal with talking to guys they don't know, etc. I don't know - I think that's extremely reductionist thinking. You don't have to give the guy a sermon, but some basic socializing isn't going to kill you.

Again, there's no one way about it, but our civilization is tied together with social dynamics and knowing how to work a crowd, or banter with approaching guys, is something a modern man should know how to do. As myself and a few others have said, you can't vacate the premises every time some guy tries to elbow in.

If you don't want to bother talking with other people, don't take her out in public - take her to your house. We're not living in caves and glaring away sexual competition with the threat of violence anymore - violence can happen still, and I personally believe that sometimes it should, but mostly it's our social skills that prevail, so it's not a weakness to blab at your competitors. It's a skill.

Growing up around rednecks, I've seen lots of otherwise "alpha" guys lose their girls because they couldn't or refused to socialize. Either through dynamics like this or because the girl became bored and disillusioned with his weak spot. These were tough guys who were capable in many ways, and they could send a lot of guys scooting with a glare or a grumble - some of them were even fighting all the time because of their women. In the end, they were usually cucked or left with a broken heart and a drinking problem.

Not that any of us were talking about fighting, but the "I can't be bothered to talk with approaching guys" sentiment reeks of that kind of hostility to me. Alienating yourself and your date completely just doesn't seem like the answer. Sure, there does come a point where you may have to tell a guy to get fucking lost, and I've done it my share of times. A woman will respect you for it too as long as she sees you pursued basic human civility before you got to the end of your patience. But until it gets to that point you should at least know how to conversate and not take it too personally that guys will be hitting on your chick wherever you go and trying to get a feel for whether you're actually together or not.

I mean, I've honestly had guys arrogantly say, one way or another, to me in public (after a few too many beers) that they were going to swoop my chick - right in front of her. You know the loudmouths I'm talking about. You know what I do? I look them directly in the eye and say right in front of her, "If you actually can, she's all yours, Buddy." I mean, when I say this, the look in my eye shows I'm anything other than a push-over (and he can probably sense that I'm bluffing and not really going to sit there and take it), but if he can really take the broad right out of my hands, I really don't want her skank ass anyways.

In any case, this response is generally enough to get them backpedaling. It also sends a strong, ireffutable message to the girl.

Anyhow, I've found a lot of guys respect me for having good looking girls on my arm and also respect me for having the ability to banter with them. But if I didn't have both those things together, I doubt I'd command the same kind of respect - a guy with hot women who builds a shell between himself and the rest of the world, on the other hand, just invites guys to try harder as soon as they get a chance because they resent him and have no reason not to.

There will always be some guys that are different, but the fastest way to bridge a gap between yourself and most people in the modern world is to show them you're human.

Interestingly enough, the ability to banter well and juggle the dynamics with other men around you commands respect from women too, so you win on all fronts.

If you're not comfortable shooting the shit with other men, I recommend going out of your way to befriend some masculine guys and getting a bit of practice with it.

Of course that still leaves the question of the woman's behavior, and again, I can see why Hank used that as a reason to walk away. The fact that she drew it out so long with her date sitting there out of the conversation shows very little class and lack of respect on her part.

I can see the sense in a lot of the viewpoints here, but I don't think there's one right answer.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #74

(01-09-2016 06:30 PM)StrikeBack Wrote:  I thought the OP story was one on how frame was lost and then recovered with a nuclear threat. Not one on solid Frame.

I have seen similar stories over the years on Game sites, but in my personal experience, a girl that you've fucked several times and who's into you will never go from 0 to 100 to disrespect and "shit test" you in such a manner. The little disrespects have to show up first, and if you have a solid Frame, you'd squash them way before the big bombs arrive, like in the OP. The girls I've been in a serious relationship with would self-criticise and apologise for the tiniest things that I may not even have noticed. I'm no big player, but I can't imagine any of them trying this stunt on me.

I'm curious to know what the OP's girl has tried to pull before that moment in the bar. When something like that happens to a man, while in the moment the OP's way might be a good solution, he should take a step back and ask himself two questions:

- Did I fail to nip the little disrespects in the bud before this?
- Did I fail at filtering out loser / low class women?

My thoughts exactly when reading Hank's initial post. Figured my idea of 'frame' must differ from that of the rest of the forum.

Post: #75

(01-10-2016 05:39 AM)Prof. Ligate Wrote:  My thoughts exactly when reading Hank's initial post. Figured my idea of 'frame' must differ from that of the rest of the forum.

I don't know about that. The consensus seems pretty split down the middle to me.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling