Post: #26

(12-30-2015 07:39 PM)BossOfBosses Wrote:  Ok, but what if you were to do the opposite? Being broke is definitely not a good way to get poon. It confers no survival value to women. Saying money is not a good way to get poon is actually misleading. Whole industries are based on it. It's more accurate to say "Throwing money around stupidly doesn't get women". You will just be exploited. This is common sense.

One thing that wasn't mentioned is that age plays a major factor. If you're 22 and drive an exotic you're not going to be viewed as a beta bucks. The older you get (and the larger the age difference with the girl) showing money get's worse results. All of the movies and romance novels paint older wealthy men as the "bad" guys vs the young protagonist.

Post: #27

(12-30-2015 07:39 PM)BossOfBosses Wrote:  

(12-30-2015 10:38 AM)HankMoody Wrote:  Throwing cash around is not a good way to get poon. It's a way to look like a dork and go broke.

Ok, but what if you were to do the opposite? Being broke is definitely not a good way to get poon. It confers no survival value to women. Saying money is not a good way to get poon is actually misleading. Whole industries are based on it. It's more accurate to say "Throwing money around stupidly doesn't get women". You will just be exploited. This is common sense. But there are studies that show "throwing money around" properly does work. Furthermore studies that show women rate guys higher when they drive exotic cars.

The guys you listed (bartenders, comedians, DJ's etc) don't have money but they have a type of status. Money and status are not necessarily the same thing. You can have one without the other and get chicks in both cases. Both are attractive to women and always have been, in every country.

Status is based off off 1) positioning 2) scarcity. It's where the "exotic factor" comes from. Your "look" is scarce thus raising your status. Now if you said the guy was a truck driver, I'd say it was good game, but you need to recognize the difference between game and status. Overall those were poor examples to illustrate your point.

Eh, but what age and quality of women, though?

To be frank, having money has become a bit common. A 23 year old knows she can date young, hot dudes up until she's in her 30s, and then if she wants to shack up with a beta bucks. Older men with a few dollars looking to bang younger hot chicks are common. Good looks are not nearly as common.

These are just my personal observations. Having money does not help me with the pickup. When I first started out, I used to think it would. I'd take first dates out to nice places and get blown out by 6s. I got better results just taking them to dive bars near my house, for coffee, or ice cream. Wearing a suit and dressing fancy got me less bangs than my t-shirt and camouflage shorts. Having money does help me establish or maintain LTRs. Some girls in their 30s think it's sexy that I own a nice home, drive a nice car, and can afford to go on vacation. Others don't give a shit, because that's a dime a dozen. I'm saying this from the perspective of a guy who has money.

It's the girls in their early 20s to early 30s who especially don't give a shit. They want a "hot dude". They prefer the DJ, the bassist, the bartender, etc. Not "Hank the damaged writer who drives a nice car and has a few bucks." The younger girls prioritize looks and "coolness" over money and status. Most of the hottest girls I know who are younger are either banging or in an LTR with a good looking guy who is a DJ, bartender, comedian, musician, or works retail. It's almost always my "professional" friends who are dating average chicks or land whales. It's my friends with money and a good career who are always the first ones to throw money at a group of hot chicks. "Oh, don't worry, I'll get the check. The whole thing. For everyone here."

I'm always shocked at how little hot women give a shit about professional recognition or status. I've been recognized as being in the 2.5% of lawyers under 40 for 5 years in a row, and do you know how many times it's gotten me laid? Zero. In contrast, my little brother is a DJ and people know him from YouTube. Do you know how many times that's gotten him laid? A lot (he actually banged the 9 who blew me out with the box seats, LOL). From a practical perspective, I've found game to be much more useful. Leading with money never helps. I generally introduce myself as a "writer" instead of a "lawyer" because women find that much more "interesting." I've gotten laid more for my fucking blog - my side hobby that has some national recognition but generates no money - than my actual professional career which puts beer on the table.

In any event, let's be real here - good looks and being "cool" is less common than money. In today's society, it's also "less boring." Who wants to hear about annuities or capital gains taxes? That's like, super boring.

Also keep in mind that very good looking women make decent money in the service industry. They're usually waitresses, bartenders, or strippers, and they can subsist on the gratuity of older men who throw around cash. Those men are a dime a dozen. They don't need to date a guy with money to live a decent lifestyle. Men will just throw cash at them without actually dating them. These women are basically giant children, who have been given everything in life. With or without bangs, men have already treated them to the finest restaurants, bought them jewelry, and taken them to bottle service. They've already lived the highlife. It's common to them. They've had it, and know they could have it forever at the drop of a dime. Some beta with a few bucks would shack up with them in a heartbeat. But that's not fun.

What I've found is that the young hot ones are looking for is a "hot dude", who has a "cool" career. Granted, they'll be divorced by 30 with a kid, but YOLO...

Post: #28

(12-30-2015 08:09 AM)BossOfBosses Wrote:  Money, if you have it, shouldn't be "bragged" about, only implied. It's passive value. Let the chick connect the dots. They love that.

My friend has 5-10 mil, not super long money but good. Chicks probe him when they see his house or learn he's a landlord. But he keeps a low profile. Drives a Toyota. I remember standing out in front of his $2 mil house in SF and catching lots of "looks" from random chicks passing by, definitely interested. Rich by association lol. He's in his 60's and dates women half his age. He knows how to leverage his wealth. First, by not talking about it, but implying it, which is much more powerful.

Are you from NorCal/SanFranciso?

Post: #29

(12-30-2015 04:10 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

(12-30-2015 02:49 PM)esalen1 Wrote:  

(12-30-2015 04:44 AM)HankMoody Wrote:  Rules of Money and Game

10. Your money is for you. Got cash? Buy that AR-15, new set of speakers, or a motorcycle. Better yet, save it and invest it. Once you've got game, women are a replaceable commodity. They're not worth throwing a lot of cash it, nor is it necessary. Instead, use money to enrich your life. You can get laid with a few shots of Fireball, just like your bartender buddy. Women are simply not worth throwing cash at.

Just want to get your take on a situation where I started dating a girl who was 21 y.o. in Phils. I'm 40. She's kind of poor.

I was dating her awhile and she was buying me stuff at first, taking turns paying for lunch, etc.

Then later, I started to help her out a little. Maybe give her a couple hundred dollars once every couple months for spending money.

Seems ok to me, considering it's no big deal to me, and it helps her out a ton. She does pretty much whatever I ask her, and I'm allowed to travel, and even date other girls. She's only dating me.

I honestly don't know enough about chicks in the Phils to take a stab at this.

I will say this - generally girls who "let" you date other chicks usually happen to be dating other dudes, and lying about it. Didn't pick up the phone last night? She fell asleep on her sister's couch, or was helping ducks cross the street. Surely she wasn't sucking cock.

When I date chicks with no money I pay for everything, but it's because I don't want their poor financial decisions to impact my lifestyle. We're not eating at Applebees because that place sucks, and I'd rather spend time elsewhere. If that means having to pay for it, fine.

However, I've never straight up given a chick money for their utilities. But if this arrangement works for you, more power to ya. Every relationship is different. It's all about what makes you happy, not what anyone else thinks.

Well, yeah, most of the time that probably is true, about women wanting to bang other guys if they think you are dating other girls. It's probably because they think it's "unfair" that you can do it and they can't. Well, my girl, may or may not be doing it. But she told me it's "ok", although she seems very bothered by it, because it's normal for guys to do it, but not girls. This is a province girl in Phils who only had one other b.f. besides me fwiw.

However, she probably has had that thought, that it's not fair. I don't ever talk about it. I keep on on the down low, only told her once when she asked me six months ago and I was in Thailand, and I said ya, I dated a couple of other girls. Other times she asked I just laughed, only reason I answered was because she was asking fairly frequently, and I would just laugh. It actually was working better to just laugh it off, and not answer directly. She did seem to change after that in a way.

Maybe I should have just lied so she doesn't have these thoughts. But, actually I think I did the right thing. That way if I get caught, I don't have to worry about it too much. I told her once I had a couple of dates. I can now keep it as discreet as possible, telling her I'm busy with work when I"m gaming, if I get caught, it's just whatever.

Thoughts?

Post: #30

(12-30-2015 10:44 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  [quote='BossOfBosses' pid='1180961' dateline='1451522341']
[quote='HankMoody' pid='1180625' dateline='1451489924']

What I've found is that the young hot ones are looking for is a "hot dude", who has a "cool" career. Granted, they'll be divorced by 30 with a kid, but YOLO...

I like the idea of saying you are a writer instead of a lawyer. Amazing you could be that great of a lawyer and it's not getting you laid where you are at.

You must be in a shitty fucking location for dating girls, probably L.A. or New york?

I like the articles u write

Post: #31

(12-31-2015 12:33 AM)esalen1 Wrote:  

(12-30-2015 04:10 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

(12-30-2015 02:49 PM)esalen1 Wrote:  

(12-30-2015 04:44 AM)HankMoody Wrote:  Rules of Money and Game

10. Your money is for you. Got cash? Buy that AR-15, new set of speakers, or a motorcycle. Better yet, save it and invest it. Once you've got game, women are a replaceable commodity. They're not worth throwing a lot of cash it, nor is it necessary. Instead, use money to enrich your life. You can get laid with a few shots of Fireball, just like your bartender buddy. Women are simply not worth throwing cash at.

Just want to get your take on a situation where I started dating a girl who was 21 y.o. in Phils. I'm 40. She's kind of poor.

I was dating her awhile and she was buying me stuff at first, taking turns paying for lunch, etc.

Then later, I started to help her out a little. Maybe give her a couple hundred dollars once every couple months for spending money.

Seems ok to me, considering it's no big deal to me, and it helps her out a ton. She does pretty much whatever I ask her, and I'm allowed to travel, and even date other girls. She's only dating me.

I honestly don't know enough about chicks in the Phils to take a stab at this.

I will say this - generally girls who "let" you date other chicks usually happen to be dating other dudes, and lying about it. Didn't pick up the phone last night? She fell asleep on her sister's couch, or was helping ducks cross the street. Surely she wasn't sucking cock.

When I date chicks with no money I pay for everything, but it's because I don't want their poor financial decisions to impact my lifestyle. We're not eating at Applebees because that place sucks, and I'd rather spend time elsewhere. If that means having to pay for it, fine.

However, I've never straight up given a chick money for their utilities. But if this arrangement works for you, more power to ya. Every relationship is different. It's all about what makes you happy, not what anyone else thinks.

Well, yeah, most of the time that probably is true, about women wanting to bang other guys if they think you are dating other girls. It's probably because they think it's "unfair" that you can do it and they can't. Well, my girl, may or may not be doing it. But she told me it's "ok", although she seems very bothered by it, because it's normal for guys to do it, but not girls. This is a province girl in Phils who only had one other b.f. besides me fwiw.

However, she probably has had that thought, that it's not fair. I don't ever talk about it. I keep on on the down low, only told her once when she asked me six months ago and I was in Thailand, and I said ya, I dated a couple of other girls. Other times she asked I just laughed, only reason I answered was because she was asking fairly frequently, and I would just laugh. It actually was working better to just laugh it off, and not answer directly. She did seem to change after that in a way.

Maybe I should have just lied so she doesn't have these thoughts. But, actually I think I did the right thing. That way if I get caught, I don't have to worry about it too much. I told her once I had a couple of dates. I can now keep it as discreet as possible, telling her I'm busy with work when I"m gaming, if I get caught, it's just whatever.

Thoughts?

Other girls? Just straight up lie. This is basically everything you need to know -

Post: #32

(12-30-2015 07:44 PM)Red_Pillage Wrote:  

(12-30-2015 07:39 PM)BossOfBosses Wrote:  

(12-30-2015 10:38 AM)HankMoody Wrote:  Throwing cash around is not a good way to get poon. It's a way to look like a dork and go broke.

Ok, but what if you were to do the opposite? Being broke is definitely not a good way to get poon. It confers no survival value to women. Saying money is not a good way to get poon is actually misleading. Whole industries are based on it. It's more accurate to say "Throwing money around stupidly doesn't get women". You will just be exploited. This is common sense. But there are studies that show "throwing money around" properly does work. Furthermore studies that show women rate guys higher when they drive exotic cars.

The guys you listed (bartenders, comedians, DJ's etc) don't have money but they have a type of status. Money and status are not necessarily the same thing. You can have one without the other and get chicks in both cases. Both are attractive to women and always have been, in every country.

Status is based off off 1) positioning 2) scarcity. It's where the "exotic factor" comes from. Your "look" is scarce thus raising your status. Now if you said the guy was a truck driver, I'd say it was good game, but you need to recognize the difference between game and status. Overall those were poor examples to illustrate your point.

There you go thinking with logic...



All I can say is i got more pussy when I was living on a friends couch than when I upgraded to a room.

It's all anecdote bro. I have actual scientific studies done specifically to address this topic.

Post: #33

So the consensus developing on this thread seems to be that money has zero, or even perhaps a negative, effect on game.

Question for Hank Moody and others- do you think that you, personally, would be pulling MORE if you had LESS money?

Post: #34

(12-30-2015 10:38 AM)HankMoody Wrote:  Alright, story time...

A few months ago a solid 9 dialed me up. She wanted to attend a concert at a venue where I have box seats. I take the bait, knowing what I'm getting into. Since it's MAH BOX, we've got bottle service and the 9s. Complete VIP treatment. I do work for the venue so they treat me like an executive. I know better than to throw cash at chicks usually, but I really want this bang.

We're up there drinking, flirting, kino, and my game is solid. At some point she's like "Hank, is it cool if my friend comes up?" Against my better judgment, I'm like "The more the merrier!" You know, I'm that cool guy Hank Moody. At the same time, I know I'm on the fence with this one. She's admittedly in high demand. Tight little body, artist, young, etc. etc.

Dude is a young guy, good looking, comedian. He's better looking and taller than I am. I make fun of him - "You tell jokes for a living? That's pretty funny." He knows I have a better job and more money, but it doesn't phase him even a little bit.

His game is tight. She's about 23 years old. I'm in my mid 30s. He plays it cool in my box and runs some solid game.

We leave the venue and dude ends up snatching my beef at the end of the night.

The next morning she texts me:

"Hank! I had SUCH a great time last night! Thank you so much! We should totally chill again!"

No response from me. (because I'm lazy, not angry)

I say this as a guy with money. Sometimes looks and game outweigh simply having cash.

As a general rule, I probably get more poon than the comedian dude. I have a vast array of chicks I can call who are hot. But I definitely got AMOG'd in this situation.

Throwing cash around is not a good way to get poon. It's a way to look like a dork and go broke.

I am sure the comedian dude didn't get laid because he was comedian, he got laid because he was already banging this girl prior you met her. You should just tell her that she should not bring any males around while you are out with her. I don't even allow women to bring other women when I am going to see them, imagine bringing another man.

I agree that in many cases looks and game outweigh having cash but that is if your competition is the guy that couldn't get ass when he was broke, now give an experience player money and watch how the whole scenario is changed.

We had a player here on the forum who lived in Milan who said that money got him laid like crazy over there, it literally made him a Casanova.

Are you making over one million dollars per year? 200k a year is not really what you should call money.

We need some Hooligan Harry on this thread.

Post: #35

(12-30-2015 10:44 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  Eh, but what age and quality of women, though?

To be frank, having money has become a bit common. A 23 year old knows she can date young, hot dudes up until she's in her 30s, and then if she wants to shack up with a beta bucks. Older men with a few dollars looking to bang younger hot chicks are common. Good looks are not nearly as common.

Guy or girls age?

Let me ask you this, did you know there are no more than 45,000 people in the entire US with $30m or more in assets? Or that the "1%" refers to people making over $300k a year (1 in 300 individuals) not even total assets?

Now if you live in an area with a lot of rich people, that can skew your perspective, but rich people normally are not common anywhere except somewhere like Monaco. It's a mathematical fact. Hell there are a lot more hot chicks then there are rich guys, just look at the ratio of girls to guys on SA.

My point is it's misleading to say money doesn't get you pussy. Why do you think so many guys want to accumulate so much of it? Or to say that rich guys are somehow everywhere. They are not. I have the numbers.

I agree that looks is increasingly important to women. I also agree "hot guys", DJs, comedians, musicians, can get laid a lot (because they have status and they are the center of attention). But to say money doesn't get you pussy is just ludicrous. Sorry.

What city do you live in?

Post: #36

(12-31-2015 12:39 AM)HankMoody Wrote:  

(12-31-2015 12:33 AM)esalen1 Wrote:  

(12-30-2015 04:10 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

(12-30-2015 02:49 PM)esalen1 Wrote:  

(12-30-2015 04:44 AM)HankMoody Wrote:  Rules of Money and Game

10. Your money is for you. Got cash? Buy that AR-15, new set of speakers, or a motorcycle. Better yet, save it and invest it. Once you've got game, women are a replaceable commodity. They're not worth throwing a lot of cash it, nor is it necessary. Instead, use money to enrich your life. You can get laid with a few shots of Fireball, just like your bartender buddy. Women are simply not worth throwing cash at.

Just want to get your take on a situation where I started dating a girl who was 21 y.o. in Phils. I'm 40. She's kind of poor.

I was dating her awhile and she was buying me stuff at first, taking turns paying for lunch, etc.

Then later, I started to help her out a little. Maybe give her a couple hundred dollars once every couple months for spending money.

Seems ok to me, considering it's no big deal to me, and it helps her out a ton. She does pretty much whatever I ask her, and I'm allowed to travel, and even date other girls. She's only dating me.

I honestly don't know enough about chicks in the Phils to take a stab at this.

I will say this - generally girls who "let" you date other chicks usually happen to be dating other dudes, and lying about it. Didn't pick up the phone last night? She fell asleep on her sister's couch, or was helping ducks cross the street. Surely she wasn't sucking cock.

When I date chicks with no money I pay for everything, but it's because I don't want their poor financial decisions to impact my lifestyle. We're not eating at Applebees because that place sucks, and I'd rather spend time elsewhere. If that means having to pay for it, fine.

However, I've never straight up given a chick money for their utilities. But if this arrangement works for you, more power to ya. Every relationship is different. It's all about what makes you happy, not what anyone else thinks.

Well, yeah, most of the time that probably is true, about women wanting to bang other guys if they think you are dating other girls. It's probably because they think it's "unfair" that you can do it and they can't. Well, my girl, may or may not be doing it. But she told me it's "ok", although she seems very bothered by it, because it's normal for guys to do it, but not girls. This is a province girl in Phils who only had one other b.f. besides me fwiw.

However, she probably has had that thought, that it's not fair. I don't ever talk about it. I keep on on the down low, only told her once when she asked me six months ago and I was in Thailand, and I said ya, I dated a couple of other girls. Other times she asked I just laughed, only reason I answered was because she was asking fairly frequently, and I would just laugh. It actually was working better to just laugh it off, and not answer directly. She did seem to change after that in a way.

Maybe I should have just lied so she doesn't have these thoughts. But, actually I think I did the right thing. That way if I get caught, I don't have to worry about it too much. I told her once I had a couple of dates. I can now keep it as discreet as possible, telling her I'm busy with work when I"m gaming, if I get caught, it's just whatever.

Thoughts?

Other girls? Just straight up lie. This is basically everything you need to know -

haha cool video

Well, yeah, other girls.

I'm living in the Phils now. I have a g.f. living here. I was thinking about this a lot the last few days. How I'm gonna approach here in the Phils with my g.f. living here. I'm not used to dating mulitple girls in the same city. I've only done it once.

So, based on the "just lie" theory, I would just tell the g.f. I'm working, and if she presses, avoid the subject or just lie, that I'm not seeing other girls. If I'm approaching a girl and she asks if I have a g.f., I say no, I don't. If have sex with her and she later asks if I have am seeing other girls, just say "no". Is this not gonna piss off some girls pretty badly? haha......What the hell happens if she sees you walking down the street with another girl?

Oh yeah, the video haha

Good one!

Post: #37

(12-31-2015 01:23 AM)BossOfBosses Wrote:  

(12-30-2015 10:44 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  Eh, but what age and quality of women, though?

To be frank, having money has become a bit common. A 23 year old knows she can date young, hot dudes up until she's in her 30s, and then if she wants to shack up with a beta bucks. Older men with a few dollars looking to bang younger hot chicks are common. Good looks are not nearly as common.

Guy or girls age?

Let me ask you this, did you know there are no more than 45,000 people in the entire US with $30m or more in assets? Or that the "1%" refers to people making over $300k a year (1 in 300 individuals) not even total assets?

Now if you live in an area with a lot of rich people, that can skew your perspective, but rich people normally are not common anywhere except somewhere like Monaco. It's a mathematical fact. Hell there are a lot more hot chicks then there are rich guys, just look at the ratio of girls to guys on SA.

My point is it's misleading to say money doesn't get you pussy. Why do you think so many guys want to accumulate so much of it? Or to say that rich guys are somehow everywhere. They are not. I have the numbers.

I agree that looks is increasingly important to women. I also agree "hot guys", DJs, comedians, musicians, can get laid a lot (because they have status and they are the center of attention). But to say money doesn't get you pussy is just ludicrous. Sorry.

What city do you live in?

I live in Philadelphia. Where guys like me own a big cool house while bartenders renting places with their 5 DJ friends get laid by 9s more than I like to acknowledge. The hipsters in tight jeans who play in a band pull some ridiculous poon, and God bless them for it.

I'm sort of an anomaly here - I'm a "professional" whose social crew also happens to be servers, artists, strippers, etc. It's sort of a running joke - Hank the Degenerate Lawyer, the guy who wins big cases and chills with strippers. Hence the pseudonym.

The reason guys like me obtain wealth is power and freedom. I like to go on vacation. I like that my living room has balling speakers in it, and that my office impresses people. I don't like to worry about paying my bills on time, or worrying about whether my car has enough gas to get where I need to go. I enjoy a relatively carefree existence. I just dropped $500 on NYE this week because I can (I'm taking a hot chick with me, but we've been banging since February). Money is freedom to do what you want to do, and not worry about stuff.

Does money get me poon directly? Not really. That's been my experience. Though they do tend to stick around after the fact. I don't lead it with it, but they tend to like it once they find out about it. (I introduce my occupation as "writer", not "lawyer" or "real estate developer.") Many of my lady friends think I blog for a living.

That said, my degenerate bartender friends might not be bringing home loot, but they're killing it in poon. Generally more than I am. My professional friends, not so much. I've found that women like money, but it doesn't necessarily generate attraction.

Post: #38

(12-31-2015 02:01 AM)HankMoody Wrote:  That said, my degenerate bartender friends might not be bringing home loot, but they're killing it in poon. Generally more than I am. My professional friends, not so much. I've found that women like money, but it doesn't necessarily generate attraction.

Not true bro.

http://observer.com/2013/03/the-hebrew-hammer/

Quote:Perhaps to make up for my lack of nudity, Logan begins scrolling through his iPhone, showing me samples of the naked photographs and pornographic videos he has received from literally hundreds of women. Logan pauses on a topless photograph of an attractive 20-something. He has slept with this person.

“One problem with her,” he sighs. “Bacterial vaginosis. It’s the only one that smells uniquely fishy. And hers was uniquely fishy.”

As he is a doctor-to-be, and not an unattractive guy by any means (with a face some might call “boyish”), it should come as no surprise that Logan, at age 30, is a lady-killer. Really, he’s a Jewish mother’s wet dream. And over the past year and a half, there’s a decent chance that Logan has slept with that Jewish mother as he perfects the craft of conning women of all colors and creeds between the sheets.

Go and read over that bolded line lol. Good job + game = pussy and lots of girls trying to lock you down.

Post: #39

BossOfBosses,

Your scam artist example was a decent looking 30 years old Jewish guy in NYC. Could he check any more boxes for a Jewish woman looking to marry? He also was able to filter for that type of woman via a website. And of course, game recognized.

I'll give you another anecdote. You're right that there are much fewer very wealthy guys than attractive women. My net worth is far above the $30M example you gave so there are maybe 35k people wealthier than me in the US (I'm not sure, I've never looked at the exact number). I have houses, cars, a jet, stuff.

Can I get laid in the US? Of course. I can get bottle girls, dancers (both strippers and regular club dancers), gold diggers, women that are "age appropriate" i.e. over 35. If I want one of Dan Bilzerian's girls, I'm sure they're available. I can also get normal young girls but I've found like Hank that I need to play down the money and use game to get them.

Remember that young beautiful women will be surrounded by their orbiters. These guys are most likely not as wealthy as me but they are willing to give free dinners, drinks, favors, etc. These girls have not had to pay for entry to a club and they have never paid for bottle service even though they are always at tables drinking bottles. They are used to betas paying for them, it's the background noise of their lives. If I show up and start paying for them, I just become part of the beta orbiters background noise.

Do I get more attention when I show up to a club in a Bentley/Lamborghini? Sure, the gold diggers notice. Some of the regular girls notice but I'm older so I would be in the try-hard group.

There was a video posted here were a guy was in a club on SoBe with his doctor friend. He was playing the "fun" guy and getting girls numbers but the girls didn't like it when the doctor tried to be "fun". Girls need there to be both alphas and betas for their sexual strategy to work. I think they get offended with a guy that has good beta/provider potential tries to move out of that script.

I'm sure your studies are correct that a wealthy guy appears more attractive. But did they break it down by age? Women in their 30's and especially late 30's change completely i.e. LOVE a guy like me. I'm sure they move the average up.

Post: #40

(12-31-2015 08:42 AM)Gringuito Wrote:  BossOfBosses,

I'll give you another anecdote. You're right that there are much fewer very wealthy guys than attractive women. My net worth is far above the $30M example you gave so there are maybe 35k people wealthier than me in the US (I'm not sure, I've never looked at the exact number). I have houses, cars, a jet, stuff.

Can I get laid in the US? Of course. I can get bottle girls, dancers (both strippers and regular club dancers), gold diggers, women that are "age appropriate" i.e. over 35. If I want one of Dan Bilzerian's girls, I'm sure they're available. I can also get normal young girls but I've found like Hank that I need to play down the money and use game to get them.

Remember that young beautiful women will be surrounded by their orbiters. These guys are most likely not as wealthy as me but they are willing to give free dinners, drinks, favors, etc. These girls have not had to pay for entry to a club and they have never paid for bottle service even though they are always at tables drinking bottles. They are used to betas paying for them, it's the background noise of their lives. If I show up and start paying for them, I just become part of the beta orbiters background noise.

Do I get more attention when I show up to a club in a Bentley/Lamborghini? Sure, the gold diggers notice. Some of the regular girls notice but I'm older so I would be in the try-hard group.

There was a video posted here were a guy was in a club on SoBe with his doctor friend. He was playing the "fun" guy and getting girls numbers but the girls didn't like it when the doctor tried to be "fun". Girls need there to be both alphas and betas for their sexual strategy to work. I think they get offended with a guy that has good beta/provider potential tries to move out of that script.

I'm sure your studies are correct that a wealthy guy appears more attractive. But did they break it down by age? Women in their 30's and especially late 30's change completely i.e. LOVE a guy like me. I'm sure they move the average up.

Gringuito, to sum it up, you are very wealthy (private jet and Lambo included), alpha, have game, are not very young anymore, and like (very?) beautiful and interesting women? Am I right?

Then it's a no-brainer: EE and especially Russia (or Ukraine), starting with Moscow, should be your one and only choice of "gaming grounds"... Hire a full-time interpreter (a female 5) and possibly, a driver-cum-bodyguard, and hit Moscow nightlife (or daylife).

Post: #41

(12-31-2015 09:08 AM)Going strong Wrote:  Gringuito, to sum it up, you are very wealthy (private jet and Lambo included), alpha, have game, are not very young anymore, and like (very?) beautiful and interesting women? Am I right?

Then it's a no-brainer: EE and especially Russia (or Ukraine), starting with Moscow, should be your one and only choice of "gaming grounds"... Hire a full-time interpreter (a female 5) and possibly, a driver-cum-bodyguard, and hit Moscow nightlife (or daylife).

I agree 100%, been there done that. Both Russia (I started in Moscow) and Ukraine (all over) as well. I've picked up a bit of Russian but still not fluent. The downsides are the tough winters and the distance from my parents and family in the US. I'll be back there in spring.

Post: #42

I don't like the way this topic is panning out.

There are a lot of impressionable young men trying to find themselves on this site. The last thing we want to do is to stifle their ambition or somehow make them think that earning money is worthless and not a sound pursuit alongside the chasing of women.

It's very easy, when you have money, to bemoan its existence. It's easy to forget how shitty life can be without it.

Hank, Gringuito...I think you guys are forgetting/underestimating how much worse game would be for you both if you were poor. You are romanticising.

Let's face it, Gringuito, at your age, if you were poor, you would have precisely zero chance with 20 year old 9s. The problem would be insurmountable. I can't remember how old you are but I have never met a poor guy over 30 who has confidence, charm, looks well put together and is also as attractive as his genetics allow.

Hank, you are a very short man if memory serves; if you couldn't afford to dress well and didn't have the confidence that a good job brings, do you think you would even be contemplating the 9 from the arena box? Nope, it just wouldn't even enter your head, it would be that impossible.

I would argue that money is what allows both you guys to overcome both height and age restrictions respectively.


I also think the general premise of your argument is wrong. Women of all ages love nothing more than luxury. Just the young ones want a rich playboy type...a Grey or a James Bond. Not a wealthy accountant/businessman etc, who they perceive to be boring.

Post: #43

CrashBangWallop, I grew up poor. I know what it's like to wear hand-me-downs and waiting for my dad to get paid so we would have food. I'm very very lucky to have made the money that I've made and continue to make. Don't misinterpret when I'm talking about strategies to get US women with my opinion of money in general. To all you young guys reading this, being wealthy is fucking awesome. Focus on your career and start your own businesses.

I thought this post was talking about how young attractive US women don't respond well to obvious displays of wealth and guys throwing money at them. They instinctively view you as a beta orbiter.

I didn't think this was about how bad it is having money. That couldn't be further from the truth. As you mentioned, a guy my age (I'm actually not that old, it's just the mileage) getting young 9s would be very difficult. But I'm able to travel and own places in countries (South America, EE) where things are much better. I have freedom and I do pretty much whatever I want. To me that's the value of money. And helping my family and doing charity work.

But I don't want young guys to self-limit by thinking that they can't get 9s now. That they have to wait until they are wealthy to get the girls. Or that they need to throw money at women to get attention.

Post: #44

(12-31-2015 09:43 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  I don't like the way this topic is panning out.

There are a lot of impressionable young men trying to find themselves on this site. The last thing we want to do is to stifle their ambition or somehow make them think that earning money is worthless and not a sound pursuit alongside the chasing of women.

It's very easy, when you have money, to bemoan its existence. It's easy to forget how shitty life can be without it.

Hank, Gringuito...I think you guys are forgetting/underestimating how much worse game would be for you both if you were poor. You are romanticising.

Let's face it, Gringuito, at your age, if you were poor, you would have precisely zero chance with 20 year old 9s. The problem would be insurmountable. I can't remember how old you are but I have never met a poor guy over 30 who has confidence, charm, looks well put together and is also as attractive as his genetics allow.

Hank, you are a very short man if memory serves; if you couldn't afford to dress well and didn't have the confidence that a good job brings, do you think you would even be contemplating the 9 from the arena box? Nope, it just wouldn't even enter your head, it would be that impossible.

I would argue that money is what allows both you guys to overcome both height and age restrictions respectively.


I also think the general premise of your argument is wrong. Women of all ages love nothing more than luxury. Just the young ones want a rich playboy type...a Grey or a James Bond. Not a wealthy accountant/businessman etc, who they perceive to be boring.

I think you're missing my point.

Having money is awesome. I love taking vacations, paying my mortgage on time, and having nice things. Every man should learn how to make and invest money, and start a business. Self employment and money means the freedom to dictate how I live my life. It's why I can post on the RVF at 10:30am.

However, men shouldn't pursue money just to please women. They should do it for themselves. In my opinion, poon is a relatively cheap commodity that can be had by men with or without money. Further, throwing money at poon often leads to simply frustration and a lighter wallet. You don't need to take women on fancy vacations, buy them presents, or wine and dine them. If you choose to, more power to you, but it's not necessary. Often doing these things will actually hurt your chances, as women see you as someone who is "buying" their time, at least early in the relationship. In addition, if all you're bringing to the table in a relationship is money, you're an easily replaceable commodity.

Furthermore, not having money shouldn't impede a man's desire to chase women. I know plenty of men who are happy working a 9-5, or pursing a low paid career in something like music or art. Many of them also get laid on a regular basis. Most of the hottest girls I know in their 20s are dating DJs, bartenders, and musicians.

The reason I even contemplate going after the 9 is because I study game. That's where my confidence comes from. I like to tell people that if I can land hot chicks, anyone can. It's not rocket science.

My point is to caution men about throwing money at women, or thinking that it's necessary. It's not to suggest that making money isn't desirable. That $750 you just threw into a steak dinner, and didn't even get laid after, could have been invested or put back into a business.

I would tell any young guy to start a business, live within your means, and learn how to invest. But don't waste money frivolously on women, it's not worth it.

Post: #45

I keep waiting for you guys to see how all sides of this debate can be true.

Flashing bills and flaunting wealth can attract and deter.

There is a massive thread about SA that is proof positive that some hot girls will drop panties if they even whiff that a player has dollars.

And then we all know beta providers that dry up pussies.

And then there are all the rich "alphas" getting fucked over by women and losing cash.

And there's instagram billionaires who will fuck another man's woman and then show the world.

Where is your flexibility of mind?
Can't two contradictory ideas exist at the same time?

What about the stripper who fucks her drug dealer, sucks off her sugar daddy, and is still pining over her high-school true love?

She doesn't even know who she is, how can you?
She changes her personality with every new outfit.
Something that was so crystal clear becomes uncertain in an instant.

Broad admiring her engagement ring while she sucks your dick.

They are not like us. And even who we are is up for periodic review.

WIA

Post: #46

(12-31-2015 11:06 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  There is a massive thread about SA that is proof positive that some hot girls will drop panties if they even whiff that a player has dollars.

WIA, that thread on SA was very interesting. Almost all of the guys are running game on the girls and spending close to $0 to get the bang. They go out of their way to say to the girls that they won't pay. At the same time these girls are hooking up with RooshV guys for free, many of them have wealthy guys giving them $$$$$$ for next to nothing.

You're right that you can find examples of almost any type of behavior if you look hard enough. But the entire concept of game is based on trends in how women are programmed to behave. Are you saying that everything is totally random and that game or any concepts that predict human behavior are useless?

Post: #47

CrashBangWallop -

I don't think anyone here has done that. In a vacuum this sounds nice, but there are definite opportunity costs in the real world. Personally as a man in his 20s I struggle with this a lot, many times you have to choose one over the other. Not everyone is making passive income. You have to start somewhere.

It would be equally damaging to tell others, "Hey, focus on your business and chase women on the side", all while their efforts to make money failed them and they waste years of their youth paper chasing and forgoing other worthwhile pursuits. In an alternative reality this person could be a coked-out serial PUA with no money making ambition who still lives with his parents, equally as fucked.

I guess I'm just re-hashing the debate about how you should prioritize your youth. Or in other words, the financial vs. social (getting laid) prioritization as a youth debate.

Chris from Good Looking Loser has a lot of valuable things to say on this topic. I don't claim he is right or that I'm right, but I find myself agreeing a lot with what he has to say on this issue. Basically he is saying that if you are Stateside or in any country that values youth more than life itself, you should probably focus more (not all) on the being social and fucking chicks while you are in your 20s.

You should obviously do what you want, but you need to be aware of how you utilize your time in certain environments. This dynamic is far from static and changes across time and space.

Quote:7) If You Don't At Least Somewhat Prioritize Your Social Life, You WILL Be Left Behind

When I was in college the idea of a "social life" seemed superficial and way less important than my academics and gym time. I'd avoid going to parties to make sure I ate my 6th meal of 575 calories and 48.5 grams of protein. Some of the years it was the right decision, but later in my college career it probably wasn't.

At times-I was depressed and didn't want a social life. But I was probably depressed because I didn't have one.With only the exception of a handful of people I know - those who didn't make their social life at least their #2 priority in their early 20's suffered greatly in their later 20's.

When most people are removed from the college environment, unless they are really good looking, they will struggle to make friends and meet women.All the hours of being a loner and surfing the Internet add up.

Social inexperience is very real and can negatively affect so many areas of your life. You won't see the effect until you are in your later 20's and more lonely than ever.

It will be an uphill battle to have meaningful relationships for the rest of your life if you significantly neglect your social life in your early 20's.

Quote:What To Do? (Financial vs. Social Goals)

The vast majority of guys already know what stage they are in (or what stage they want to be in). There is no confusion or room for debate. Still, there's quite a few that are torn between prioritizing financial or social (Getting Laid) goals in their 20s.

I don't have a one-size-fits-all answer on this. I can only speak from experience. In my mid 20's, while it certainly would have been nice to have a bunch of businesses that produce income streams, it just wasn't practical at the time.

It wasn't practical, not because I couldn't have built these income streams (although Good Looking terrible website with generic 'meet women' information if I didn't solely focus on Getting Laid for 4+ years), but because all I could constantly think about is how I should be Getting Laid a lot more than I did.

Although you shouldn't let "what you should be doing" influence you too much, I knew that it was 'NOW OR NEVER' and I only had a couple of years left in my 20's before I had bigger responsibilities and bigger bills to pay.

I was so sure of my decision that I left Law School (and scholarship) and never looked back. (technically, I took a 'medical leave of absence' so I had the option of going back the following year, but I never even considered that - I mentally checked out from academia)

It was the correct decision. Although it seems like a monumental crossroad in my life, it was one of the easiest decisions I ever made. Fast forward 5 or 6 years, I literally no longer think about Getting Laid or where my life is headed. I can dedicate nearly all my time to my financial goals.

For me, prioritizing my sex life in my 20's was the correct decision. After all, had I not, there would no Loser community and I'd be a third-rate pill popping lawyer or an uninspiring disinterested personal trainer who sold growth hormone.

That's not to say it's the right decision for you though.

But as I mentioned several times, if I hadn't prioritized Getting Laid over potential financial goals fo entire life would be COMPLETELY different.
Besides, in my opinion, once you find financial success, you won't have the time to then shift all your attention to Getting Laid.

That's why rich guys get high-class hookers. It's a more efficient use of their time, even if they are good with women.

Post: #48

No, I'm saying that some girls are that will fuck you because

- you have a cute face
- you have a good body
- you are popular
- you have money
- his bald head is sexy

Then some girls are like
- baby face Leonardo DiCaprio was not hot. Grown up Leo is
- meatheads are dangerous dumb oafs that look disfigured
- that guy is popular with the wrong crowd, he's always slumming
- he spends money to compensate for his lack of dick
- he's a balding old man

Your girlfriend thinks you have a foot long cock, and when you break up she's going to joke about your three inch killer.

Guys without game or just learning the game think the world is static, that girls are static, and consistent.

It's part of the human condition, to want to hold or hope things are consistent. If you had to keep rethinking about a situation, you'd go crazy and do nothing.

Women have a duality in this respect.

Within a relationship, they expect you to be consistent and they can change.

But as players we know that often to pull a chick and to keep a chick you have to be random and inconsistent. If you are stable and dependable like her logical mind wants you to be, she punishes you for it.

The folly is that would be players keep asking
"Which is it?!?"

He is asking because he wants to change himself into the thing that gets him what he wants.

The more you do this, the more you understand game and how women actually behave the less it will make sense in your old frame of reference.

I started to see the game as really bending girls to my reality. I have started to see work and politics as me sitting in a movie theater and being made to laugh, cheer, cry, and think. There are people clearly pulling the strings that I'm willfully ignoring.

To bring it back to money and game, it's not an all or nothing proposition. And we aren't operating in scarcity. There is an overabundance of hot chicks in ratio to what we know as players they respond to.

Plenty of journeymen players run the same game every night and its feast for a month and famine for two.

Who's at fault? No one.

That same ability to deal with ambiguity disappears when he deals with these questions.

WIA

Post: #49

I agree with WIA. Some women will rate you 9/10 just "because" (well, if you are 3/10 you won't make it sorry).

My new strategy is simple: I ask her if she has time to go out, I get her in the car and I escalate there. I then go straight to the crib. If she refuses I tell her to GTFO. No Coffee, no dinner, no dating.

I also try to keep the discussion to a minimum. The last one was added randomly on Facebook, I asked her if she wants to meet tomorrow. She said "I don't know you", I said "Cool, we'll get to know each other tomorrow.".

And it worked. Tomorrow straight to home.

Did that 6 times (till now). The good thing is that it worked 4/6. I noticed that the less I talk, the more I score. I think I'm bad at talk-game, so my game is basically no game.

It's worth mentioning that:

- On social media/facebook. I add thousands (read that right), get approved by hundreds, and get dozens of replies most of them (you guessed) are "sorry no".

- I move fast and I try not to regret my speed. The last time I was in HK doing night game. I just met an American girl (9/10). My speech was short "Hey, whats your name, do you think we should sit down there". I escalated quickly and the girl bounced and went away. Well, I did feel a bit bad. I think I've been too fast. But I'm not going to change my strategy.

Post: #50

(12-31-2015 08:42 AM)Gringuito Wrote:  BossOfBosses,

Remember that young beautiful women will be surrounded by their orbiters. These guys are most likely not as wealthy as me but they are willing to give free dinners, drinks, favors, etc. These girls have not had to pay for entry to a club and they have never paid for bottle service even though they are always at tables drinking bottles. They are used to betas paying for them, it's the background noise of their lives. If I show up and start paying for them, I just become part of the beta orbiters background noise.

Those are the key words my friend, "these guys are most likely not as wealthy as me". Boom.

Lets be real here, how many chicks have guys worth 30m+ "orbiting" them? Granted instagram models might have a few, but most don't. It just changes the whole equation for them. Just the mere fact that you are that rich is a turn on to a lot of girls. They wouldn't view you as an "orbiter" in the first place. "Orbiters" are low-value men. They would just hamster it as you being a "cute, sweet guy".

Old School PUA's recognized basic evo-psych truths like the influence of money and incorporated it into their routines. Where did this whole "money ain't shit" idea in the manosphere come from? It's completely misleading. The right viewpoint incorporates money + game + status. Stop trying to separate everything. Look at the big picture.

Quote:Furthermore, not having money shouldn't impede a man's desire to chase women. I know plenty of men who are happy working a 9-5, or pursing a low paid career in something like music or art. Many of them also get laid on a regular basis. Most of the hottest girls I know in their 20s are dating DJs, bartenders, and musicians.

Because music and art careers are glamorous/high status. Chicks dig status. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see why musicians get laid a lot but truck drivers, coal miners and dishwashers don't. I know guys with garage bands getting pussy. But they play in front of crowds and it looks cool to chicks to be the center of attention. (The same reason bartenders get laid.) Chicks are more logical and predictable than most guys here give them credit for. They are so easy to get. Just watch what they do.