Post: #51

(12-25-2015 04:35 PM)thoughtgypsy Wrote:  I've been thinking about what exactly 'corrupts' a woman, and how, if possible, to stop the process. I'm convinced that practically every woman is corruptible, that it is inherent in their nature to want to ride the carousel given the right opportunities. The question is how to minimize those chances. Assuming you're starting with a woman who hasn't already been corrupted, these would be my guesses:

- Live outside a major metro area: This reduces her options. Women go for the top 10% regardless of where they are, and a larger population means that it's harder to stand out. In a rural area it's very easy to be the best dressed/charismatic/whatever. Divorce rate is much lower in rural areas.

- Do not allow her to work away from home: Reduces the chances of her spending 8 hours a day surrounded by and bonding with other men.

- Limit her friendships with western women: Western women are a corrupting influence. If your woman is well trained, other women will try to drag her down to the lowest common denominator. Women have a herd mentality and will try to fit into the larger group.

- Encourage friendships exclusively with other family members: If her only social group is your family, there will be major repercussions if she decided to blow up the relationship. She would be isolated from the only group of friends she knows. I think this was a major part of keeping my aunt honest.

- Limit her exposure to TV and pop culture: I think this is something she has to already be inclined to. Might have to look for someone who already doesn't watch or own a TV, and prefers to read. Sitting in front of a TV for hours on end, whose programming sets the approved social expectations for her will change her attitudes.

- Keep her busy: The devil makes use of idle hands. If she's bored, she's going to start looking to other avenues for entertainment. Get her cooking, cleaning, doing work for you. If you run an online business, perhaps you could show her some basics to start her own.

- If you have a daughter, don't send them to college: Pretty much an environment that is the polar opposite of everything above I've tried to lay out.

I'm sure there's others I missed.

It's a great list man.

I would also limit the internet/social media. Previous individual email account and social media accounts get deleted and replaced with a joint one. She shouldn't have access to the internet while you aren't around either. The internet is worse than TV now.

I wouldn't even have TV reception. Just a DVD player with a hand-picked selection of movies.

Post: #52

(12-25-2015 12:50 PM)Vice Wrote:  

(12-24-2015 05:07 PM)DaveR Wrote:  

(12-24-2015 04:46 PM)zigZag Wrote:  Yep. I remember a girl in high school told me she was a virgin even though she took it up the butt and gave a few BJs.... You really can't be sure.

In my experience with virgins (mostly in Russia), it's very easy to tell when a girl hasn't been naked in front of a man before. The difference in behaviour, how timid she is, etc. is like night and day. That still leaves the possibility of hand/blow jobs, but it's close enough for me to call her a virgin.

I would put this in the "don't listen to what women say" category... they'll hamster up some reason for anal and oral sex not counting and not even feel that they're lying.

Yep, her body language tells all.

Another test I forgot to mention: sluts aren't ticklish. They're usually very accustomed to having men's hands all over them.

Post: #53

(12-25-2015 04:35 PM)thoughtgypsy Wrote:  I've been thinking about what exactly 'corrupts' a woman, and how, if possible, to stop the process. I'm convinced that practically every woman is corruptible, that it is inherent in their nature to want to ride the carousel given the right opportunities. The question is how to minimize those chances. Assuming you're starting with a woman who hasn't already been corrupted, these would be my guesses:

- Live outside a major metro area: This reduces her options. Women go for the top 10% regardless of where they are, and a larger population means that it's harder to stand out. In a rural area it's very easy to be the best dressed/charismatic/whatever. Divorce rate is much lower in rural areas.

- Do not allow her to work away from home: Reduces the chances of her spending 8 hours a day surrounded by and bonding with other men.

- Limit her friendships with western women: Western women are a corrupting influence. If your woman is well trained, other women will try to drag her down to the lowest common denominator. Women have a herd mentality and will try to fit into the larger group.

- Encourage friendships exclusively with other family members: If her only social group is your family, there will be major repercussions if she decided to blow up the relationship. She would be isolated from the only group of friends she knows. I think this was a major part of keeping my aunt honest.

- Limit her exposure to TV and pop culture: I think this is something she has to already be inclined to. Might have to look for someone who already doesn't watch or own a TV, and prefers to read. Sitting in front of a TV for hours on end, whose programming sets the approved social expectations for her will change her attitudes.

- Keep her busy: The devil makes use of idle hands. If she's bored, she's going to start looking to other avenues for entertainment. Get her cooking, cleaning, doing work for you. If you run an online business, perhaps you could show her some basics to start her own.

- If you have a daughter, don't send them to college: Pretty much an environment that is the polar opposite of everything above I've tried to lay out.

I'm sure there's others I missed.

Hey mate, i agree with your post, and that theoretically this would work to keep your traditional woman less westernized, but i don't see how realistic this would be without locking her in the basement (in a sense). I mean bringing some person into a country, unless you blindfold them, they are eventually going to see the culture. Unless you keep them in some community away from the western culture you don't want her to be affected by.

What i would find to work better, when i had a girlfriend from Russia, who was living in my 'westernized' country, New Zealand, was to make it clear to her that I really despised the tenants of the culture, and making her also convinced that it was a sick society, the american culture, feminism and all the rest of it.
By making it clear to her that that was what I expected, and manipulating her opinion of the place, still, 3 years after living here, even though we aren't together still, she didn't change her opinion.
I wasn't and still am not in some situation where i'd want such a super long term relationship where i really cared about this stuff too much, but i feel like keeping her in the kind of isolation you described wouldn't be a recipe for a happy person.
But I'm open to your counter-argument.

Post: #54

(12-26-2015 04:36 AM)369eyedea Wrote:  

(12-25-2015 04:35 PM)thoughtgypsy Wrote:  I've been thinking about what exactly 'corrupts' a woman, and how, if possible, to stop the process. I'm convinced that practically every woman is corruptible, that it is inherent in their nature to want to ride the carousel given the right opportunities. The question is how to minimize those chances. Assuming you're starting with a woman who hasn't already been corrupted, these would be my guesses:

- Live outside a major metro area: This reduces her options. Women go for the top 10% regardless of where they are, and a larger population means that it's harder to stand out. In a rural area it's very easy to be the best dressed/charismatic/whatever. Divorce rate is much lower in rural areas.

- Do not allow her to work away from home: Reduces the chances of her spending 8 hours a day surrounded by and bonding with other men.

- Limit her friendships with western women: Western women are a corrupting influence. If your woman is well trained, other women will try to drag her down to the lowest common denominator. Women have a herd mentality and will try to fit into the larger group.

- Encourage friendships exclusively with other family members: If her only social group is your family, there will be major repercussions if she decided to blow up the relationship. She would be isolated from the only group of friends she knows. I think this was a major part of keeping my aunt honest.

- Limit her exposure to TV and pop culture: I think this is something she has to already be inclined to. Might have to look for someone who already doesn't watch or own a TV, and prefers to read. Sitting in front of a TV for hours on end, whose programming sets the approved social expectations for her will change her attitudes.

- Keep her busy: The devil makes use of idle hands. If she's bored, she's going to start looking to other avenues for entertainment. Get her cooking, cleaning, doing work for you. If you run an online business, perhaps you could show her some basics to start her own.

- If you have a daughter, don't send them to college: Pretty much an environment that is the polar opposite of everything above I've tried to lay out.

I'm sure there's others I missed.

Hey mate, i agree with your post, and that theoretically this would work to keep your traditional woman less westernized, but i don't see how realistic this would be without locking her in the basement (in a sense). I mean bringing some person into a country, unless you blindfold them, they are eventually going to see the culture. Unless you keep them in some community away from the western culture you don't want her to be affected by.

What i would find to work better, when i had a girlfriend from Russia, who was living in my 'westernized' country, New Zealand, was to make it clear to her that I really despised the tenants of the culture, and making her also convinced that it was a sick society, the american culture, feminism and all the rest of it.
By making it clear to her that that was what I expected, and manipulating her opinion of the place, still, 3 years after living here, even though we aren't together still, she didn't change her opinion.
I wasn't and still am not in some situation where i'd want such a super long term relationship where i really cared about this stuff too much, but i feel like keeping her in the kind of isolation you described wouldn't be a recipe for a happy person.
But I'm open to your counter-argument.

I've seen the semi-isolation deal work really well with a SEA woman in the US. A few key things that I think made a huge difference (early 30s couple at the time with two kids):

1. The guy was the primary provider. - Established Financial leverage

2. The guy spoke her language fluently. She spoke broken English. - Established communication leverage.

3. The woman video chatted with family back in SEA frequently. Online communication was mostly limited to family chatting.

4. They had two kids last I knew. Once one was about 3-4 (when the burden would lighten up a bit), next kid followed. Kept her busy

5. She understood her role to cook well, clean well, and sexually take care of her man (stay in shape, look good, etc). She even was fine with the guy fucking while out of town on business as long as he wore a rubber.

The guy was like a 1 in looks but the wife had a 7 body and 5 face (and thats after two kids). For this guy in the US, he was punching WAY above the average on the looks contrast alone and was in another dimension when accounting for everything else.

6. I think this is a big point in particular: the ultimate end game for them was to go back to the original SEA country together once the career was over in their 40s. Basically, have and raise kids in the safe, comfortable USA with 1st rate healthcare while making bank and when kids are older, (not 18 but teenagers), bounce back to the SEA country and geo-arbitrage the USD bankroll to live like royalty.

I think the last point is key because it prevents the woman from getting too settle into the idea of western life as a forever thing (and therefore, less motivated to make friends, learn the language well, etc) and gives her something to look forward to down the line: being upper-class/living the good life in her homeland and surrounded by her family again. Also, it makes it harder for her to monkey branch off in the US because while most men will fuck her, they sure as hell will not move with her to her homeland either due to lack of desire or feasibility. Finally, the guy with the family in tow moved every few years so the woman never got a chance to establish very deep social circle; which never went further than the local ethnic SEA church group... albeit westernized... which I think might have been a fault on his part but I digress. A deep social circle is hard to walk away from so while not intentional by design I think, the frequent moving kept her from getting overly attached to the US as well and contributed to keeping the the dream of going back to SEA alive.

When she talks with family back home frequently, it gives everyone a goal to work towards: the re-unification of the greater family unit. If she fucks that up, her family back home will surely know about it. So, those Skype chats back home with family can act as distance social pressure in a way.

Of course, plenty can go wrong. She can get invested in western culture and not want to leave. You could change your mind about going back to her homeland for whatever reason. She could just divorce rape you in the Anglosphere and take off with the kids or leave you with them to take care of alone.

Anyhow... the guy I outlined above is one of the only examples of a happy marriage I've ever seen in the US where it seemed like everyone was content with their role and position. At the very least, the aforementioned could maybe serve as a blue print for guys who want to bring a foreign chick to the US/anglopshere successfully in some form or fashion. I still think moving to the country of interest is WAY better than this layout but for guys who might have their hands tied career wise until their 40s or later but want to start up families in there 20s/30s, the blueprint I laid out could possibly work.

Post: #55

(12-26-2015 04:36 AM)369eyedea Wrote:  

(12-25-2015 04:35 PM)thoughtgypsy Wrote:  I've been thinking about what exactly 'corrupts' a woman, and how, if possible, to stop the process. I'm convinced that practically every woman is corruptible, that it is inherent in their nature to want to ride the carousel given the right opportunities. The question is how to minimize those chances. Assuming you're starting with a woman who hasn't already been corrupted, these would be my guesses:

- Live outside a major metro area: This reduces her options. Women go for the top 10% regardless of where they are, and a larger population means that it's harder to stand out. In a rural area it's very easy to be the best dressed/charismatic/whatever. Divorce rate is much lower in rural areas.

- Do not allow her to work away from home: Reduces the chances of her spending 8 hours a day surrounded by and bonding with other men.

- Limit her friendships with western women: Western women are a corrupting influence. If your woman is well trained, other women will try to drag her down to the lowest common denominator. Women have a herd mentality and will try to fit into the larger group.

- Encourage friendships exclusively with other family members: If her only social group is your family, there will be major repercussions if she decided to blow up the relationship. She would be isolated from the only group of friends she knows. I think this was a major part of keeping my aunt honest.

- Limit her exposure to TV and pop culture: I think this is something she has to already be inclined to. Might have to look for someone who already doesn't watch or own a TV, and prefers to read. Sitting in front of a TV for hours on end, whose programming sets the approved social expectations for her will change her attitudes.

- Keep her busy: The devil makes use of idle hands. If she's bored, she's going to start looking to other avenues for entertainment. Get her cooking, cleaning, doing work for you. If you run an online business, perhaps you could show her some basics to start her own.

- If you have a daughter, don't send them to college: Pretty much an environment that is the polar opposite of everything above I've tried to lay out.

I'm sure there's others I missed.

Hey mate, i agree with your post, and that theoretically this would work to keep your traditional woman less westernized, but i don't see how realistic this would be without locking her in the basement (in a sense). I mean bringing some person into a country, unless you blindfold them, they are eventually going to see the culture. Unless you keep them in some community away from the western culture you don't want her to be affected by.

What i would find to work better, when i had a girlfriend from Russia, who was living in my 'westernized' country, New Zealand, was to make it clear to her that I really despised the tenants of the culture, and making her also convinced that it was a sick society, the american culture, feminism and all the rest of it.
By making it clear to her that that was what I expected, and manipulating her opinion of the place, still, 3 years after living here, even though we aren't together still, she didn't change her opinion.
I wasn't and still am not in some situation where i'd want such a super long term relationship where i really cared about this stuff too much, but i feel like keeping her in the kind of isolation you described wouldn't be a recipe for a happy person.
But I'm open to your counter-argument.

Years ago I did something similar with an FOB Mexican. I think she already rejected feminism to begin with though. Maybe by Mexican standards she was already an "empowered" woman because she had a degree and moved to NYC for a VP position at a large financial institution, but when we lived together she cooked, cleaned, did laundry, the whole 9 yards with a smile, and this was after working a full day. She wanted to have kids and to not work anymore. That was her goal, at the time anyway. We're not together anymore so maybe it's changed.

If the girl has already been watching Western TV and movies in her own country than you can ask her what she thinks about them, the culture, the men and women and how it's different from her own. Her answers will probably reveal everything you need to know.

If she hasn't then you can explain how things are just as you outlined. I think very few men do that. Maybe they are worried about opening a can of worms by doing so, but it's really something that needs to be done.

There's one girl I started talking with in the Phils this week via Skype. I asked her what her dreams for the future were after graduation and her answer was to travel the world. I think that's a red flag from an LTR/Marriage point of view.

Post: #56

(12-26-2015 04:36 AM)369eyedea Wrote:  

(12-25-2015 04:35 PM)thoughtgypsy Wrote:  I've been thinking about what exactly 'corrupts' a woman, and how, if possible, to stop the process. I'm convinced that practically every woman is corruptible, that it is inherent in their nature to want to ride the carousel given the right opportunities. The question is how to minimize those chances. Assuming you're starting with a woman who hasn't already been corrupted, these would be my guesses:

- Live outside a major metro area: This reduces her options. Women go for the top 10% regardless of where they are, and a larger population means that it's harder to stand out. In a rural area it's very easy to be the best dressed/charismatic/whatever. Divorce rate is much lower in rural areas.

- Do not allow her to work away from home: Reduces the chances of her spending 8 hours a day surrounded by and bonding with other men.

- Limit her friendships with western women: Western women are a corrupting influence. If your woman is well trained, other women will try to drag her down to the lowest common denominator. Women have a herd mentality and will try to fit into the larger group.

- Encourage friendships exclusively with other family members: If her only social group is your family, there will be major repercussions if she decided to blow up the relationship. She would be isolated from the only group of friends she knows. I think this was a major part of keeping my aunt honest.

- Limit her exposure to TV and pop culture: I think this is something she has to already be inclined to. Might have to look for someone who already doesn't watch or own a TV, and prefers to read. Sitting in front of a TV for hours on end, whose programming sets the approved social expectations for her will change her attitudes.

- Keep her busy: The devil makes use of idle hands. If she's bored, she's going to start looking to other avenues for entertainment. Get her cooking, cleaning, doing work for you. If you run an online business, perhaps you could show her some basics to start her own.

- If you have a daughter, don't send them to college: Pretty much an environment that is the polar opposite of everything above I've tried to lay out.

I'm sure there's others I missed.

Hey mate, i agree with your post, and that theoretically this would work to keep your traditional woman less westernized, but i don't see how realistic this would be without locking her in the basement (in a sense). I mean bringing some person into a country, unless you blindfold them, they are eventually going to see the culture. Unless you keep them in some community away from the western culture you don't want her to be affected by.

What i would find to work better, when i had a girlfriend from Russia, who was living in my 'westernized' country, New Zealand, was to make it clear to her that I really despised the tenants of the culture, and making her also convinced that it was a sick society, the american culture, feminism and all the rest of it.
By making it clear to her that that was what I expected, and manipulating her opinion of the place, still, 3 years after living here, even though we aren't together still, she didn't change her opinion.
I wasn't and still am not in some situation where i'd want such a super long term relationship where i really cared about this stuff too much, but i feel like keeping her in the kind of isolation you described wouldn't be a recipe for a happy person.
But I'm open to your counter-argument.

When you're in a western country, every single aspect of the culture is working against you. TV, the social groups, the cultural and economic pressures, everything is a corrupting influence that given enough time, will change your woman. I look at it with the analogy of background radiation. The longer and more intensely she's exposed to it, the more she will be affected. I think it's a cumulative, not binary process, so every little bit helps to slow the corruption. The only effective option is isolation from corrupting influences, in my opinion. I agree with your point that total isolation seems extreme and she would grow impatient after a while. What I failed to make clear is that isolation from western influence doesn't have to mean total isolation in general, but could incorporate the replacement of western influences with others.

The important aspect of this strategy is to offer an alternative to western culture that meets all her needs. I don't believe people should be forced to stay in a situation that would make them unhappy, and ultimately any long term strategy must acknowledge this. Women are social creatures, and grow restless if they're socially isolated. Therefore, their social group should be one that reinforces the values you want her to have, or improves your leverage. This could be your close family, a church (if they're the red pill type), etc. In a pinch, this could be skyping family back home, as The Black Knight illustrated already.

Same goes for TV and entertainment. Western TV programs could be replaced with her home programming using satellite TV. Much easier though if she's an introvert by nature. She won't want to be going out for girls night anyway, and might enjoy sitting at home and reading a book to be her favorite activity. If she's already having her needs met, she's much less likely to need to turn to other sources.

Post: #57

I just read a book that provides insight that could help with keeping an imported foreign woman in line. I will make a separate post about it this weekend, perhaps in the Deep Forum.

Post: #58

(12-26-2015 12:43 PM)CleanSlate Wrote:  I just read a book that provides insight that could help with keeping an imported foreign woman in line. I will make a separate post about it this weekend, perhaps in the Deep Forum.

Please do.

G

Post: #59

@thoughtgypsy

Great points.

We're starting to get to the heart of the matter and what can realistically be done to preserve a world where feminine women will still exist in 50 years.

I believe most of us can agree that it's impossible, practically speaking, to shield women from Western culture in the internet age without necessarily sacrificing freedom in the society at large (which means men sacrifice it too).

Some people hearken to a system like Islam as a solution.

Sure, Saudi Arabia may be largely free from corrosive Western influences but would you want to live there?

Fuck no.

It's been my feeling for a while now that tactics like slut shaming, promoting religion (which religion?), extolling moral virtues, etc., are largely ineffective in keeping men AND women on the straight and narrow.

Or, if they ARE effective, they just delay the inevitable.

Let's not forget that the youth invariably see a wagging finger as a challenge, a provocation.

We make being sluts a forbidden fruit, and women will slut it up twice as hard.

We make drugs illegal, and there's a thrill to taking them and giving the middle finger to mom, dad and the establishment.

It seems to me that a superior set of solutions would include a nonchalant attitude towards women doing whatever the fuck they want.

And then...the charm of going full YOLO will slowly start to disappear.

When nobody gives a shit about Miley Cyrus parading her nasty cooter on television anymore, thousands of girls won't see it as an inspiration to be naughty.

Think about how being a slut vs a caring mother is such a gravitating issue with women.

If nobody gave a shit what women did, would they get the same kick out of being 'bad'?

Would they still enjoy being bad when nobody is there to wag their finger and tell them 'bad girl'?

Hmm...

That's one side of the coin.

Here's the other.

We men love our sexual freedom.

I personally would not at all enjoy a world in which the majority of women were conservative.

I like easy sex and lots of it, thank you very much.

I'm sure most guys here wouldn't want to make that sacrifice either and probably wouldn't given the option.

No more than women would sacrifice the freedom to fuck who THEY want, chase careers and do the independent woman thing.

So the question then becomes, how do we intelligently bring about a world in which men and women can both enjoy plenty of frivolous sex and yet in which women still fit into the feminine mother/partner role when the time comes?

I believe the answer is actually not a cultural one but an economic/political one, and it's simply this:

The world must move towards a libertarian/laissez-faire capitalist philosophy and voting policy.

The problems we have with women in the West are largely due to the fact that they can screw men out of their livelihoods (and freedom), and that they are essentially protected species hunted by politicians for their glossy coat and their glossier vote (what little fur they had was waxed off to better allow random men to navigate their penises into the gates of the promised land.)

If you unplug this socialist component from the society, things suddenly look very different.

Here in Thailand, sluts abound (thank Buddha).

BUT many of the girls who ride the carousel go on to be loving partners/mothers.

That's right, in my opinion a carousel rider is not damaged goods in the least and is often better in the mother/partner role than some prudish virgin who has experienced little of life (what can she impart to a child?), has gone through little hardship (it's fucking hard to raise kids), and doesn't know the first thing about pleasing a man.

Let's not forget you can almost never be sure of a woman's sexual history unless you go to ridiculous extremes to uncover it.

And I see no contradiction between a woman who enjoyed casual sex with many men and the ability to be a great partner and mom.

This false dichotomy exists largely because of the clout that women in enjoy in the West.

I think we've been confusing cause and effect.

In Thailand, communism was narrowly averted.

The surrounding countries weren't as lucky --- Cambodia (1/3 population was murdered), Myanmar (decades of war, murder, juntas), Vietnam, Malaysia (perhaps the least affected neighbor but still was officially communist for a period).

Part of the result of this has been a rather laissez-faire economy and political situation as far as the day to day life on the street is concerned.

There's no child support, no alimony, no taking men to the cleaners political bullshit here.

And guess what?

Women treat men well because they can't screw them vis a vis the government, so they're forced to cooperate just like everybody else in the laissez-faire arrangement.

The fact that there is little government intervention in the day to day lives of the people forces cooperation, commerce, understanding.

Once you get Uncle Sam involved, the bitches go YOLO.

I'm off on a bit of a rant but I think we're onto something...

Post: #60

Good point VV in that the family laws and economic policies play a large part in shaping women's behavior toward men.

It's much easier, however, to prevent short sighted laws and policies like these from ever getting passed, than to change them after the fact.

Post: #61

"Once you get Uncle Sam involved, the bitches go YOLO."

Or Uncle Olaf. Just look at the Scandinavian countries - massive welfare but also massive divorce rates as well as lots of YOLOing chicks.

Post: #62

VV, great post. It is exceptionally rare to see a sane and balanced discussion of these issues in the 'sphere (and of course their discussion elsewhere is even worse and based on outright lies) but your post is that rare example.

Indeed, a return to any kind of enforced "patriarchy" is neither possible nor desirable. All that is really needed is that women no longer be allowed to exist as a specially protected and uniquely privileged class whose every whim is served at the expense of the state, meaning, ultimately, at the expense of men who produce all of the state's wealth.

One of the ways this could happen in practice, as I've argued before, is through a serious war that will fundamentally reshape the sexual marketplace, reorienting society away from the feminine and towards the masculine pursuits as a result of both physical exigencies and the change of perspective that they entail. But it could also happen over time if men simply proved less willing to pedestalize women as a class and to underwrite their every whim and folly. I don't see either happening anytime very soon, but I don't believe the current trend of giving women ever greater -- and entirely unearned -- powers underwritten by willing men is something that can continue indefinitely, either.

Ultimately, the special pedestalization and cosseting of women that enables the worst of today's social excesses is something that happens entirely at the sufferance of men (since it is men's physical and intellectual resources that keep society going). Once enough men start voting differently with their wallets or feet, things will change because they have to.

Post: #63

One more time, VV:



This was a fantastic post that made so many great and important points.

It is on par with Beyond Borders' post about friendship as one of the very finest made in this forum in 2015 (or ever).

Thank you.

Post: #64

VV, I think we share fundamentally different worldviews, but you make a lot of good points and I think there's a lot that we can agree on.

Like you, I enjoy easy sex with beautiful women. The idealistic scenario for all men is to have the ability to impregnate as many women as possible. It is hardcoded in our very biology. However, this is directly against the biological drive of women. This is where I think our disagreements will begin. A woman's idealistic scenario is to have the offspring and resources of the most powerful leader possible. But there are a limited amount of successful men and every woman won't be able to have access to his resources. There's also a limited amount of beautiful women, so not all men will be able to get them to bed. Naturally, our reproductive strategies will be at odds.

In the state of nature prior to large central governments, the opportunities for sexual freedom were much the way you describe. But women are physically weaker, and possess brains that are less inclined towards logical reasoning. In most societies that meant they relied on men to protect and provide for them. These conditions made a state of total sexual freedom impossible. Children are a massive investment in time and would impose a huge burden on a man's efforts to lay as many women as possible. Therefore, a man could simply leave after pregnancy, and women would be left to raise them themselves. In less temperate climes, women would already be totally reliant on others, and wouldn't even begin to be able to support an additional mouth. Having a child without the provisioning of a man often meant death for the child, and the end of her lineage.

In order for a man to devote his limited resources to a single woman, the woman granted exclusive sexual access and reproduction. A man wanted to ensure that all of his efforts were contributing to his own genetic lineage, not to another man's, so sexual exclusivity became a priority. This system was not created as a form of oppression, but rather a practical compromise that gave gave each party strong incentives to make certain sacrifices of their freedom to arrive at the best option for all involved. Children born to these unions enjoyed greater parental investment, women enjoyed the lifetime protection and economic stewardship of a man, and large intact families allowed for transmission of wealth across generations. This system of marriage allowed western civilization to flourish and become the most advanced society the world had ever seen.

That system was destroyed in the late 20th century. This would have been the perfect opportunity to enact a society of free love. Given the advances in technology of birth control and paternity testing, there wouldn't be major repercussions from widespread no strings attached sex. But it didn't occur that way, and that was by design. Women don't want total sexual freedom for men. If a man's only goal was to have sex instead of building a family, most likely he would work just enough to get by and sleep with women, as is often seen in temperate climes. There would be little incentive to work hard and build a legacy for his future family. Women would be actually forced to look after themselves, instead of enjoying the fruits of the labor of men.

We currently live in an era of extraordinary economic prosperity where some women can actually claim independence. Yet men continue to subsidize women through disparate tax regimes and government benefits, men still continue to pay 97% of child support cases, men still continue to pay the majority of alimony. Most women despise the idea of actual independence. They'll say they want it, but their actions say otherwise.

Even if we remove some of the consequences that prevented total sexual freedom, there are some realities of nature that I believe will never go away. Women will always go after the top 20% of men, and some men will always be forced to go without any women. Women will always by and large rely on men, either directly or by proxy through the government. Some men will be able to use their resources as leverage, as some women will use their beauty. Some men will be swimming in pussy, others will be in a drought. It will be a paradise for some and a hell for others. Times of economic prosperity will make things more unequal, and hard times more equitable. Nature abhors a steady state, and I am skeptical that a sexual utopia can exist for everyone, or even most people. I'm hesitant to claim that the institutions of historical cultures were oppressive, as often they were operating under remarkably different environmental pressures than we experience today. What they arrived at as the best system over the course of millenia may likely be what was most beneficial to their society.

Sexual Utopia in Power by F. Roger Devlin delves much more deeply into this topic. If anyone is interested, Roosh posted a link to it here: /thread-51959.html

Post: #65

(12-26-2015 02:27 PM)VincentVinturi Wrote:  BUT many of the girls who ride the carousel go on to be loving partners/mothers.

That's right, in my opinion a carousel rider is not damaged goods in the least and is often better in the mother/partner role than some prudish virgin who has experienced little of life (what can she impart to a child?), has gone through little hardship (it's fucking hard to raise kids), and doesn't know the first thing about pleasing a man.

Let's not forget you can almost never be sure of a woman's sexual history unless you go to ridiculous extremes to uncover it.

And I see no contradiction between a woman who enjoyed casual sex with many men and the ability to be a great partner and mom.

This false dichotomy exists largely because of the clout that women in enjoy in the West.

I partially disagree with this because I believe women who are ultra promiscuous have poor impulse control. Women who have poor impulse control also tend to have other issues and not the most stable personalities for long term child rearing. Even if they acknowledge their responsibilities in raising a family the poor impulse control part of their personality eventually surfaces. From what i've seen in asia long term this is just as true over here as in the west.

However, I agree with everything else you're saying. The reason why western women have become what they have become in the anglosphere is due to a system that actively enables bad behavior and systematically rewards it. Plus there is no sense of actual responsibility with a lot of women in the west because unlike men they can choose to do whatever they want and be free from consequences in the end.

In asia even the most hardened carousel rider tends to respect family to some degree. There's filial responsibility and you're right in saying that asia does not really coddle women like this. There will always be betas who shower attractive women with money and gifts but society in general does not create institutional support for YOLO type living with divorce rape and other laws that are all about transfering wealth from men to women. They also know that the carousel ride ends at some point unlike the west where women are gearing up for round 3 in their 40's with botox injections and labia reconstruction.

Post: #66

(12-24-2015 01:41 AM)Constitution45 Wrote:  I think the moral of the story here, is that you never know what you are getting. I have been surprised living over here in Moscow. It seems that the most promiscuous girls here are actually the ones originally coming from muslim backgrounds. Turkmenistan, Chechnya, Kyrgyzstan.

One Chechen girl was going to get married to a German guy and decided to visit my flatmate before she left to start a life in her new homeland. Needless to say she got drunk from celebrating this move and fucked my flatmate before her flight.

I think a lot of guys make the mistake of assuming that they can be off guard and just find a woman from a non Anglosphere country and just settle down.

A few months ago I had a ONS with a Pakistani girl who had a similar Muslim background. She was down for anything sexual and was easily the biggest slut I've ever fucked. Not surprisingly, her fucked up life story read a lot like stories in this thread and around RVF. Broken fucking record with these hoes.

She was born in Karachi, lived more than half her life there, is fluent in Urdo and is a "former Muslim" in her words, but you would never know this shit on the surface. She's got a couple tattoos, tongue and nipple piercings and can suck dick like her life depended on it.

Moved here to the USA around the age of 12, her father died shortly after (explains everything you need to know), and in her words she "became enlightened" here, meaning that she slowly lost her religion and cultural tie to Pakistan and probably her own family.

Eventually I found out she had a previous failed marriage with a rich FOB Gulf Arab at the age of 19 here in the USA. She apparently got pregnant immediately after the wedding and divorced raped that guy all within one year. Now she's got a toddler, a paid house and lifestyle and rides the carousel with no shame.

Pakistani got a taste of American-style carousel riding. Arab got a taste of American-style divorce rape. One thing is for sure, their lives would have turned out better back in their respective home countries.

Nothing surprises me here in the USA anymore. Next.